Capitalization of plural noun given proper adjective and common adjective












0















I've recently come across a dilemma of whether to capitalize a plural noun, given that it's described by a proper adjective (like a place) and a common adjective (a descriptive adjective).



Example-




...big and Saharan deserts




Or




...big and Saharan Deserts




In both of these cases, we're talking about multiple deserts, and one is big, and the other Saharan. Does desert get capitalized? Would the order of the adjectives matter?



I know it's not a great example (I'm not talking specifically about the Saharan Desert, but any proper adjective would do), but can anyone clarify? I've never learned about this specific topic (with one proper and one descriptive adjective). Also, if a question like this exists, please kindly direct me to it! Thanks!










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  • Questions which lack results of research are out of scope. For an introduction to the site, take the Tour. For help writing a good question, see How to Ask.

    – MetaEd
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:20











  • @MετάEd I've been a user of SE for a decent while. I believe my question is under the scope of grammar issues. I can see why you could see I don't have any research. I'm implying, but it might not be clear, that my grammar education didn't cover this specific topic. I'll edit my question.

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:28











  • I would also like to mention that although I am fluent in the English language, I don't know many grammatical terms that the English language uses, and therefore I may have a worse time researching the specifics of "what a dangling participle is"

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:31
















0















I've recently come across a dilemma of whether to capitalize a plural noun, given that it's described by a proper adjective (like a place) and a common adjective (a descriptive adjective).



Example-




...big and Saharan deserts




Or




...big and Saharan Deserts




In both of these cases, we're talking about multiple deserts, and one is big, and the other Saharan. Does desert get capitalized? Would the order of the adjectives matter?



I know it's not a great example (I'm not talking specifically about the Saharan Desert, but any proper adjective would do), but can anyone clarify? I've never learned about this specific topic (with one proper and one descriptive adjective). Also, if a question like this exists, please kindly direct me to it! Thanks!










share|improve this question

























  • Questions which lack results of research are out of scope. For an introduction to the site, take the Tour. For help writing a good question, see How to Ask.

    – MetaEd
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:20











  • @MετάEd I've been a user of SE for a decent while. I believe my question is under the scope of grammar issues. I can see why you could see I don't have any research. I'm implying, but it might not be clear, that my grammar education didn't cover this specific topic. I'll edit my question.

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:28











  • I would also like to mention that although I am fluent in the English language, I don't know many grammatical terms that the English language uses, and therefore I may have a worse time researching the specifics of "what a dangling participle is"

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:31














0












0








0








I've recently come across a dilemma of whether to capitalize a plural noun, given that it's described by a proper adjective (like a place) and a common adjective (a descriptive adjective).



Example-




...big and Saharan deserts




Or




...big and Saharan Deserts




In both of these cases, we're talking about multiple deserts, and one is big, and the other Saharan. Does desert get capitalized? Would the order of the adjectives matter?



I know it's not a great example (I'm not talking specifically about the Saharan Desert, but any proper adjective would do), but can anyone clarify? I've never learned about this specific topic (with one proper and one descriptive adjective). Also, if a question like this exists, please kindly direct me to it! Thanks!










share|improve this question
















I've recently come across a dilemma of whether to capitalize a plural noun, given that it's described by a proper adjective (like a place) and a common adjective (a descriptive adjective).



Example-




...big and Saharan deserts




Or




...big and Saharan Deserts




In both of these cases, we're talking about multiple deserts, and one is big, and the other Saharan. Does desert get capitalized? Would the order of the adjectives matter?



I know it's not a great example (I'm not talking specifically about the Saharan Desert, but any proper adjective would do), but can anyone clarify? I've never learned about this specific topic (with one proper and one descriptive adjective). Also, if a question like this exists, please kindly direct me to it! Thanks!







capitalization






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Jul 26 '16 at 19:38







ragingasiancoder

















asked Jul 26 '16 at 17:17









ragingasiancoderragingasiancoder

1044




1044













  • Questions which lack results of research are out of scope. For an introduction to the site, take the Tour. For help writing a good question, see How to Ask.

    – MetaEd
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:20











  • @MετάEd I've been a user of SE for a decent while. I believe my question is under the scope of grammar issues. I can see why you could see I don't have any research. I'm implying, but it might not be clear, that my grammar education didn't cover this specific topic. I'll edit my question.

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:28











  • I would also like to mention that although I am fluent in the English language, I don't know many grammatical terms that the English language uses, and therefore I may have a worse time researching the specifics of "what a dangling participle is"

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:31



















  • Questions which lack results of research are out of scope. For an introduction to the site, take the Tour. For help writing a good question, see How to Ask.

    – MetaEd
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:20











  • @MετάEd I've been a user of SE for a decent while. I believe my question is under the scope of grammar issues. I can see why you could see I don't have any research. I'm implying, but it might not be clear, that my grammar education didn't cover this specific topic. I'll edit my question.

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:28











  • I would also like to mention that although I am fluent in the English language, I don't know many grammatical terms that the English language uses, and therefore I may have a worse time researching the specifics of "what a dangling participle is"

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:31

















Questions which lack results of research are out of scope. For an introduction to the site, take the Tour. For help writing a good question, see How to Ask.

– MetaEd
Jul 26 '16 at 17:20





Questions which lack results of research are out of scope. For an introduction to the site, take the Tour. For help writing a good question, see How to Ask.

– MetaEd
Jul 26 '16 at 17:20













@MετάEd I've been a user of SE for a decent while. I believe my question is under the scope of grammar issues. I can see why you could see I don't have any research. I'm implying, but it might not be clear, that my grammar education didn't cover this specific topic. I'll edit my question.

– ragingasiancoder
Jul 26 '16 at 17:28





@MετάEd I've been a user of SE for a decent while. I believe my question is under the scope of grammar issues. I can see why you could see I don't have any research. I'm implying, but it might not be clear, that my grammar education didn't cover this specific topic. I'll edit my question.

– ragingasiancoder
Jul 26 '16 at 17:28













I would also like to mention that although I am fluent in the English language, I don't know many grammatical terms that the English language uses, and therefore I may have a worse time researching the specifics of "what a dangling participle is"

– ragingasiancoder
Jul 26 '16 at 17:31





I would also like to mention that although I am fluent in the English language, I don't know many grammatical terms that the English language uses, and therefore I may have a worse time researching the specifics of "what a dangling participle is"

– ragingasiancoder
Jul 26 '16 at 17:31










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















3














You'll find both initial caps and initial lower-case:



From Handbook of Landscape Archaeology, B David and J Thomas (eds),




... the linkage between the Arabian Desert in the east and the Sinai
and Saharan Deserts in the west,....




From Great Walls and Linear Barriers by P Spring,




In the semi-arid northern borders of the Arabian and Saharan
deserts




I haven't been able to find a conjunction of Saharan with anything but another adjectival form of a place name, but the preponderance of the Ngram viewer examples seems to be lower-case deserts. The probable reason is the the Sahara Desert is a proper name, but Saharan deserts isn't. Rather it's a descriptive term for the various so-called xeric subregions of the Sahara Desert, which have their own proper names, e.g., the Grand Ergs of Algeria.



This discussion illustrates the fact that the adjectival form of a proper noun keeps its properness (and thus its initial cap) for itself, but also that the properness does not extend to phrases that are proper with the noun form. Thus we learn from wikipedia that




The Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians is one of three Federally
recognized tribes of Choctaw Indians.




But we would say that





The moundbuilding, Mississippian bands of Indians formed an urban and suburban culture that flourished between 800 an 1600.





In the former case Band is part of the name and so is capitalized. In the latter case, band is not part of the name and so is lower-case, unaffected by Mississippian, which simply acts as an adjective no different from its companion, mound-building.






share|improve this answer


























  • I'm not looking for "Saharan" specifically, just any proper and common adjective used together. Or is it because it's grammatically incorrect to use a proper adjective and a common adjective to describe a plural noun that we can't find any examples online?

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 19:40






  • 1





    @ragingasiancoder I'm afraid I neglected to generalize my comment from your example, and I'll try to fix that. But recognize that this isn't a grammatical issue. From the point of view of syntax, a conjoined proper and common adjectives simply form a compound adjectival phrase. The capitalization issue is one of style.

    – deadrat
    Jul 26 '16 at 19:57



















0














While I learned that the use of multiple Xs requires a lower case x, (e.g., Mississippi and Missouri rivers), to my surprise I found a page that suggests just the opposite, too:



"...Plurals: When two or more place-names share a common element, the common element is capped: the Thames and Avon Rivers."



To me, that looks wrong, so it's likely a less frequent style.






share|improve this answer


























  • Hmm...that's interesting. What about a mix of place-names and "regular" adjectives?

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:44











  • As in your first example? To me that seems correct, although my quick web sleuthing did not show a case like that.

    – KWinker
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:47



















0














The AMA Manual of Style says, "If a common noun is capitalized in the singular, it is generally not capitalized in the plural. Atlantic and Pacific oceans Kennedy and Eisenhower expressways Mississippi and Missouri rivers Compass directions are not capitalized unless they are generally accepted terms for regions."






share|improve this answer








New contributor




Gavin Hudson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    3














    You'll find both initial caps and initial lower-case:



    From Handbook of Landscape Archaeology, B David and J Thomas (eds),




    ... the linkage between the Arabian Desert in the east and the Sinai
    and Saharan Deserts in the west,....




    From Great Walls and Linear Barriers by P Spring,




    In the semi-arid northern borders of the Arabian and Saharan
    deserts




    I haven't been able to find a conjunction of Saharan with anything but another adjectival form of a place name, but the preponderance of the Ngram viewer examples seems to be lower-case deserts. The probable reason is the the Sahara Desert is a proper name, but Saharan deserts isn't. Rather it's a descriptive term for the various so-called xeric subregions of the Sahara Desert, which have their own proper names, e.g., the Grand Ergs of Algeria.



    This discussion illustrates the fact that the adjectival form of a proper noun keeps its properness (and thus its initial cap) for itself, but also that the properness does not extend to phrases that are proper with the noun form. Thus we learn from wikipedia that




    The Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians is one of three Federally
    recognized tribes of Choctaw Indians.




    But we would say that





    The moundbuilding, Mississippian bands of Indians formed an urban and suburban culture that flourished between 800 an 1600.





    In the former case Band is part of the name and so is capitalized. In the latter case, band is not part of the name and so is lower-case, unaffected by Mississippian, which simply acts as an adjective no different from its companion, mound-building.






    share|improve this answer


























    • I'm not looking for "Saharan" specifically, just any proper and common adjective used together. Or is it because it's grammatically incorrect to use a proper adjective and a common adjective to describe a plural noun that we can't find any examples online?

      – ragingasiancoder
      Jul 26 '16 at 19:40






    • 1





      @ragingasiancoder I'm afraid I neglected to generalize my comment from your example, and I'll try to fix that. But recognize that this isn't a grammatical issue. From the point of view of syntax, a conjoined proper and common adjectives simply form a compound adjectival phrase. The capitalization issue is one of style.

      – deadrat
      Jul 26 '16 at 19:57
















    3














    You'll find both initial caps and initial lower-case:



    From Handbook of Landscape Archaeology, B David and J Thomas (eds),




    ... the linkage between the Arabian Desert in the east and the Sinai
    and Saharan Deserts in the west,....




    From Great Walls and Linear Barriers by P Spring,




    In the semi-arid northern borders of the Arabian and Saharan
    deserts




    I haven't been able to find a conjunction of Saharan with anything but another adjectival form of a place name, but the preponderance of the Ngram viewer examples seems to be lower-case deserts. The probable reason is the the Sahara Desert is a proper name, but Saharan deserts isn't. Rather it's a descriptive term for the various so-called xeric subregions of the Sahara Desert, which have their own proper names, e.g., the Grand Ergs of Algeria.



    This discussion illustrates the fact that the adjectival form of a proper noun keeps its properness (and thus its initial cap) for itself, but also that the properness does not extend to phrases that are proper with the noun form. Thus we learn from wikipedia that




    The Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians is one of three Federally
    recognized tribes of Choctaw Indians.




    But we would say that





    The moundbuilding, Mississippian bands of Indians formed an urban and suburban culture that flourished between 800 an 1600.





    In the former case Band is part of the name and so is capitalized. In the latter case, band is not part of the name and so is lower-case, unaffected by Mississippian, which simply acts as an adjective no different from its companion, mound-building.






    share|improve this answer


























    • I'm not looking for "Saharan" specifically, just any proper and common adjective used together. Or is it because it's grammatically incorrect to use a proper adjective and a common adjective to describe a plural noun that we can't find any examples online?

      – ragingasiancoder
      Jul 26 '16 at 19:40






    • 1





      @ragingasiancoder I'm afraid I neglected to generalize my comment from your example, and I'll try to fix that. But recognize that this isn't a grammatical issue. From the point of view of syntax, a conjoined proper and common adjectives simply form a compound adjectival phrase. The capitalization issue is one of style.

      – deadrat
      Jul 26 '16 at 19:57














    3












    3








    3







    You'll find both initial caps and initial lower-case:



    From Handbook of Landscape Archaeology, B David and J Thomas (eds),




    ... the linkage between the Arabian Desert in the east and the Sinai
    and Saharan Deserts in the west,....




    From Great Walls and Linear Barriers by P Spring,




    In the semi-arid northern borders of the Arabian and Saharan
    deserts




    I haven't been able to find a conjunction of Saharan with anything but another adjectival form of a place name, but the preponderance of the Ngram viewer examples seems to be lower-case deserts. The probable reason is the the Sahara Desert is a proper name, but Saharan deserts isn't. Rather it's a descriptive term for the various so-called xeric subregions of the Sahara Desert, which have their own proper names, e.g., the Grand Ergs of Algeria.



    This discussion illustrates the fact that the adjectival form of a proper noun keeps its properness (and thus its initial cap) for itself, but also that the properness does not extend to phrases that are proper with the noun form. Thus we learn from wikipedia that




    The Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians is one of three Federally
    recognized tribes of Choctaw Indians.




    But we would say that





    The moundbuilding, Mississippian bands of Indians formed an urban and suburban culture that flourished between 800 an 1600.





    In the former case Band is part of the name and so is capitalized. In the latter case, band is not part of the name and so is lower-case, unaffected by Mississippian, which simply acts as an adjective no different from its companion, mound-building.






    share|improve this answer















    You'll find both initial caps and initial lower-case:



    From Handbook of Landscape Archaeology, B David and J Thomas (eds),




    ... the linkage between the Arabian Desert in the east and the Sinai
    and Saharan Deserts in the west,....




    From Great Walls and Linear Barriers by P Spring,




    In the semi-arid northern borders of the Arabian and Saharan
    deserts




    I haven't been able to find a conjunction of Saharan with anything but another adjectival form of a place name, but the preponderance of the Ngram viewer examples seems to be lower-case deserts. The probable reason is the the Sahara Desert is a proper name, but Saharan deserts isn't. Rather it's a descriptive term for the various so-called xeric subregions of the Sahara Desert, which have their own proper names, e.g., the Grand Ergs of Algeria.



    This discussion illustrates the fact that the adjectival form of a proper noun keeps its properness (and thus its initial cap) for itself, but also that the properness does not extend to phrases that are proper with the noun form. Thus we learn from wikipedia that




    The Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians is one of three Federally
    recognized tribes of Choctaw Indians.




    But we would say that





    The moundbuilding, Mississippian bands of Indians formed an urban and suburban culture that flourished between 800 an 1600.





    In the former case Band is part of the name and so is capitalized. In the latter case, band is not part of the name and so is lower-case, unaffected by Mississippian, which simply acts as an adjective no different from its companion, mound-building.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Jul 26 '16 at 20:19

























    answered Jul 26 '16 at 18:10









    deadratdeadrat

    42k25292




    42k25292













    • I'm not looking for "Saharan" specifically, just any proper and common adjective used together. Or is it because it's grammatically incorrect to use a proper adjective and a common adjective to describe a plural noun that we can't find any examples online?

      – ragingasiancoder
      Jul 26 '16 at 19:40






    • 1





      @ragingasiancoder I'm afraid I neglected to generalize my comment from your example, and I'll try to fix that. But recognize that this isn't a grammatical issue. From the point of view of syntax, a conjoined proper and common adjectives simply form a compound adjectival phrase. The capitalization issue is one of style.

      – deadrat
      Jul 26 '16 at 19:57



















    • I'm not looking for "Saharan" specifically, just any proper and common adjective used together. Or is it because it's grammatically incorrect to use a proper adjective and a common adjective to describe a plural noun that we can't find any examples online?

      – ragingasiancoder
      Jul 26 '16 at 19:40






    • 1





      @ragingasiancoder I'm afraid I neglected to generalize my comment from your example, and I'll try to fix that. But recognize that this isn't a grammatical issue. From the point of view of syntax, a conjoined proper and common adjectives simply form a compound adjectival phrase. The capitalization issue is one of style.

      – deadrat
      Jul 26 '16 at 19:57

















    I'm not looking for "Saharan" specifically, just any proper and common adjective used together. Or is it because it's grammatically incorrect to use a proper adjective and a common adjective to describe a plural noun that we can't find any examples online?

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 19:40





    I'm not looking for "Saharan" specifically, just any proper and common adjective used together. Or is it because it's grammatically incorrect to use a proper adjective and a common adjective to describe a plural noun that we can't find any examples online?

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 19:40




    1




    1





    @ragingasiancoder I'm afraid I neglected to generalize my comment from your example, and I'll try to fix that. But recognize that this isn't a grammatical issue. From the point of view of syntax, a conjoined proper and common adjectives simply form a compound adjectival phrase. The capitalization issue is one of style.

    – deadrat
    Jul 26 '16 at 19:57





    @ragingasiancoder I'm afraid I neglected to generalize my comment from your example, and I'll try to fix that. But recognize that this isn't a grammatical issue. From the point of view of syntax, a conjoined proper and common adjectives simply form a compound adjectival phrase. The capitalization issue is one of style.

    – deadrat
    Jul 26 '16 at 19:57













    0














    While I learned that the use of multiple Xs requires a lower case x, (e.g., Mississippi and Missouri rivers), to my surprise I found a page that suggests just the opposite, too:



    "...Plurals: When two or more place-names share a common element, the common element is capped: the Thames and Avon Rivers."



    To me, that looks wrong, so it's likely a less frequent style.






    share|improve this answer


























    • Hmm...that's interesting. What about a mix of place-names and "regular" adjectives?

      – ragingasiancoder
      Jul 26 '16 at 17:44











    • As in your first example? To me that seems correct, although my quick web sleuthing did not show a case like that.

      – KWinker
      Jul 26 '16 at 17:47
















    0














    While I learned that the use of multiple Xs requires a lower case x, (e.g., Mississippi and Missouri rivers), to my surprise I found a page that suggests just the opposite, too:



    "...Plurals: When two or more place-names share a common element, the common element is capped: the Thames and Avon Rivers."



    To me, that looks wrong, so it's likely a less frequent style.






    share|improve this answer


























    • Hmm...that's interesting. What about a mix of place-names and "regular" adjectives?

      – ragingasiancoder
      Jul 26 '16 at 17:44











    • As in your first example? To me that seems correct, although my quick web sleuthing did not show a case like that.

      – KWinker
      Jul 26 '16 at 17:47














    0












    0








    0







    While I learned that the use of multiple Xs requires a lower case x, (e.g., Mississippi and Missouri rivers), to my surprise I found a page that suggests just the opposite, too:



    "...Plurals: When two or more place-names share a common element, the common element is capped: the Thames and Avon Rivers."



    To me, that looks wrong, so it's likely a less frequent style.






    share|improve this answer















    While I learned that the use of multiple Xs requires a lower case x, (e.g., Mississippi and Missouri rivers), to my surprise I found a page that suggests just the opposite, too:



    "...Plurals: When two or more place-names share a common element, the common element is capped: the Thames and Avon Rivers."



    To me, that looks wrong, so it's likely a less frequent style.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Jul 26 '16 at 17:46

























    answered Jul 26 '16 at 17:35









    KWinkerKWinker

    1,5971411




    1,5971411













    • Hmm...that's interesting. What about a mix of place-names and "regular" adjectives?

      – ragingasiancoder
      Jul 26 '16 at 17:44











    • As in your first example? To me that seems correct, although my quick web sleuthing did not show a case like that.

      – KWinker
      Jul 26 '16 at 17:47



















    • Hmm...that's interesting. What about a mix of place-names and "regular" adjectives?

      – ragingasiancoder
      Jul 26 '16 at 17:44











    • As in your first example? To me that seems correct, although my quick web sleuthing did not show a case like that.

      – KWinker
      Jul 26 '16 at 17:47

















    Hmm...that's interesting. What about a mix of place-names and "regular" adjectives?

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:44





    Hmm...that's interesting. What about a mix of place-names and "regular" adjectives?

    – ragingasiancoder
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:44













    As in your first example? To me that seems correct, although my quick web sleuthing did not show a case like that.

    – KWinker
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:47





    As in your first example? To me that seems correct, although my quick web sleuthing did not show a case like that.

    – KWinker
    Jul 26 '16 at 17:47











    0














    The AMA Manual of Style says, "If a common noun is capitalized in the singular, it is generally not capitalized in the plural. Atlantic and Pacific oceans Kennedy and Eisenhower expressways Mississippi and Missouri rivers Compass directions are not capitalized unless they are generally accepted terms for regions."






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Gavin Hudson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.

























      0














      The AMA Manual of Style says, "If a common noun is capitalized in the singular, it is generally not capitalized in the plural. Atlantic and Pacific oceans Kennedy and Eisenhower expressways Mississippi and Missouri rivers Compass directions are not capitalized unless they are generally accepted terms for regions."






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      Gavin Hudson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.























        0












        0








        0







        The AMA Manual of Style says, "If a common noun is capitalized in the singular, it is generally not capitalized in the plural. Atlantic and Pacific oceans Kennedy and Eisenhower expressways Mississippi and Missouri rivers Compass directions are not capitalized unless they are generally accepted terms for regions."






        share|improve this answer








        New contributor




        Gavin Hudson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.










        The AMA Manual of Style says, "If a common noun is capitalized in the singular, it is generally not capitalized in the plural. Atlantic and Pacific oceans Kennedy and Eisenhower expressways Mississippi and Missouri rivers Compass directions are not capitalized unless they are generally accepted terms for regions."







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