Do I need a semicolon to separate two items with internal commas in a numbered run-in list sentence?












0















I asked this Q in ELL, but I found related Qs here.



Here is a numbered run-in list sentence.




(A) The UI program provides temporary income support to (1) eligible unemployed workers while they actively seek new employment or obtain vocational training ; and to (2) those who take time off from work due to sickness, pregnancy, childbirth, or to provide care to a critically ill child or a sick family member with a significant risk of death.




Without the numbers, it would read:




(B) The UI program provides temporary income support to eligible unemployed workers while they actively seek new employment or obtain vocational training and to those who take time off from work due to sickness, pregnancy, childbirth, or to provide care to a critically ill child or a sick family member with a significant risk of death.




Here is my problem.



(1) Usually, in a two word/phrase list a comma is not used before "and". Also, my sentences are not both independent clauses, hence the conjunction should not have a comma before it.



(2) In a run-in list, if there is internal commas, then the items should be separated by semicolons. My clause (2) has internal commas.



Now, these two guidelines conflict in my case. All examples in the Chicago MS contain 3 items or more.



I have seen all these Qs asked here before. 1, 2, 3. What I gathered from them is that in a special case when a two item sentence is complex, there can be a comma before the conjunction. But I am still confused as to what it should be when it is a numbered list.



My questions is, in the case where there are two items (and those items have internal commas) is it still the rule to put in a semicolon before "and"?










share|improve this question



























    0















    I asked this Q in ELL, but I found related Qs here.



    Here is a numbered run-in list sentence.




    (A) The UI program provides temporary income support to (1) eligible unemployed workers while they actively seek new employment or obtain vocational training ; and to (2) those who take time off from work due to sickness, pregnancy, childbirth, or to provide care to a critically ill child or a sick family member with a significant risk of death.




    Without the numbers, it would read:




    (B) The UI program provides temporary income support to eligible unemployed workers while they actively seek new employment or obtain vocational training and to those who take time off from work due to sickness, pregnancy, childbirth, or to provide care to a critically ill child or a sick family member with a significant risk of death.




    Here is my problem.



    (1) Usually, in a two word/phrase list a comma is not used before "and". Also, my sentences are not both independent clauses, hence the conjunction should not have a comma before it.



    (2) In a run-in list, if there is internal commas, then the items should be separated by semicolons. My clause (2) has internal commas.



    Now, these two guidelines conflict in my case. All examples in the Chicago MS contain 3 items or more.



    I have seen all these Qs asked here before. 1, 2, 3. What I gathered from them is that in a special case when a two item sentence is complex, there can be a comma before the conjunction. But I am still confused as to what it should be when it is a numbered list.



    My questions is, in the case where there are two items (and those items have internal commas) is it still the rule to put in a semicolon before "and"?










    share|improve this question

























      0












      0








      0








      I asked this Q in ELL, but I found related Qs here.



      Here is a numbered run-in list sentence.




      (A) The UI program provides temporary income support to (1) eligible unemployed workers while they actively seek new employment or obtain vocational training ; and to (2) those who take time off from work due to sickness, pregnancy, childbirth, or to provide care to a critically ill child or a sick family member with a significant risk of death.




      Without the numbers, it would read:




      (B) The UI program provides temporary income support to eligible unemployed workers while they actively seek new employment or obtain vocational training and to those who take time off from work due to sickness, pregnancy, childbirth, or to provide care to a critically ill child or a sick family member with a significant risk of death.




      Here is my problem.



      (1) Usually, in a two word/phrase list a comma is not used before "and". Also, my sentences are not both independent clauses, hence the conjunction should not have a comma before it.



      (2) In a run-in list, if there is internal commas, then the items should be separated by semicolons. My clause (2) has internal commas.



      Now, these two guidelines conflict in my case. All examples in the Chicago MS contain 3 items or more.



      I have seen all these Qs asked here before. 1, 2, 3. What I gathered from them is that in a special case when a two item sentence is complex, there can be a comma before the conjunction. But I am still confused as to what it should be when it is a numbered list.



      My questions is, in the case where there are two items (and those items have internal commas) is it still the rule to put in a semicolon before "and"?










      share|improve this question














      I asked this Q in ELL, but I found related Qs here.



      Here is a numbered run-in list sentence.




      (A) The UI program provides temporary income support to (1) eligible unemployed workers while they actively seek new employment or obtain vocational training ; and to (2) those who take time off from work due to sickness, pregnancy, childbirth, or to provide care to a critically ill child or a sick family member with a significant risk of death.




      Without the numbers, it would read:




      (B) The UI program provides temporary income support to eligible unemployed workers while they actively seek new employment or obtain vocational training and to those who take time off from work due to sickness, pregnancy, childbirth, or to provide care to a critically ill child or a sick family member with a significant risk of death.




      Here is my problem.



      (1) Usually, in a two word/phrase list a comma is not used before "and". Also, my sentences are not both independent clauses, hence the conjunction should not have a comma before it.



      (2) In a run-in list, if there is internal commas, then the items should be separated by semicolons. My clause (2) has internal commas.



      Now, these two guidelines conflict in my case. All examples in the Chicago MS contain 3 items or more.



      I have seen all these Qs asked here before. 1, 2, 3. What I gathered from them is that in a special case when a two item sentence is complex, there can be a comma before the conjunction. But I am still confused as to what it should be when it is a numbered list.



      My questions is, in the case where there are two items (and those items have internal commas) is it still the rule to put in a semicolon before "and"?







      punctuation complex-sentences






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 10 hours ago









      AIQAIQ

      177




      177






















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          1














          In my view, 'Guidelines' are just that: guidelines; they are not rules that must be followed. Does the additional punctuation make it easier and/or clearer for the reader? Does it save the reader having to do a 'double think' and/or having to go back and re-read the sentence? Unless you are writing for a publisher who has strict rules about such issues, then do what seems appropriate and what you think would be clearest for your readers.



          Personally, I would put a semicolon after "training" in both forms of your sentence. In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is more important in format B than in format A, because format A already has the numbering that clearly separates the two groups, whereas B does not have that extra 'break'.



          For similar reasons, I would argue that the use of a semicolon (as opposed to a comma) is more important in B than in A, because again the numbering in A makes the division of the two groups clear. On the other hand, B already uses commas within the second section, so it needs a stronger indicator than a comma (i.e. a semicolon) to separate the two main groupings.



          Clarity to your readers is more important than arbitrary rules!



          P.S. I'm writing this as a Brit, not an American, so the opinions on your side of 'the pond' may be different!






          share|improve this answer























            Your Answer








            StackExchange.ready(function() {
            var channelOptions = {
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "97"
            };
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
            createEditor();
            });
            }
            else {
            createEditor();
            }
            });

            function createEditor() {
            StackExchange.prepareEditor({
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: false,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: null,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader: {
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            },
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            });


            }
            });














            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fenglish.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f488842%2fdo-i-need-a-semicolon-to-separate-two-items-with-internal-commas-in-a-numbered-r%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes








            1 Answer
            1






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            1














            In my view, 'Guidelines' are just that: guidelines; they are not rules that must be followed. Does the additional punctuation make it easier and/or clearer for the reader? Does it save the reader having to do a 'double think' and/or having to go back and re-read the sentence? Unless you are writing for a publisher who has strict rules about such issues, then do what seems appropriate and what you think would be clearest for your readers.



            Personally, I would put a semicolon after "training" in both forms of your sentence. In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is more important in format B than in format A, because format A already has the numbering that clearly separates the two groups, whereas B does not have that extra 'break'.



            For similar reasons, I would argue that the use of a semicolon (as opposed to a comma) is more important in B than in A, because again the numbering in A makes the division of the two groups clear. On the other hand, B already uses commas within the second section, so it needs a stronger indicator than a comma (i.e. a semicolon) to separate the two main groupings.



            Clarity to your readers is more important than arbitrary rules!



            P.S. I'm writing this as a Brit, not an American, so the opinions on your side of 'the pond' may be different!






            share|improve this answer




























              1














              In my view, 'Guidelines' are just that: guidelines; they are not rules that must be followed. Does the additional punctuation make it easier and/or clearer for the reader? Does it save the reader having to do a 'double think' and/or having to go back and re-read the sentence? Unless you are writing for a publisher who has strict rules about such issues, then do what seems appropriate and what you think would be clearest for your readers.



              Personally, I would put a semicolon after "training" in both forms of your sentence. In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is more important in format B than in format A, because format A already has the numbering that clearly separates the two groups, whereas B does not have that extra 'break'.



              For similar reasons, I would argue that the use of a semicolon (as opposed to a comma) is more important in B than in A, because again the numbering in A makes the division of the two groups clear. On the other hand, B already uses commas within the second section, so it needs a stronger indicator than a comma (i.e. a semicolon) to separate the two main groupings.



              Clarity to your readers is more important than arbitrary rules!



              P.S. I'm writing this as a Brit, not an American, so the opinions on your side of 'the pond' may be different!






              share|improve this answer


























                1












                1








                1







                In my view, 'Guidelines' are just that: guidelines; they are not rules that must be followed. Does the additional punctuation make it easier and/or clearer for the reader? Does it save the reader having to do a 'double think' and/or having to go back and re-read the sentence? Unless you are writing for a publisher who has strict rules about such issues, then do what seems appropriate and what you think would be clearest for your readers.



                Personally, I would put a semicolon after "training" in both forms of your sentence. In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is more important in format B than in format A, because format A already has the numbering that clearly separates the two groups, whereas B does not have that extra 'break'.



                For similar reasons, I would argue that the use of a semicolon (as opposed to a comma) is more important in B than in A, because again the numbering in A makes the division of the two groups clear. On the other hand, B already uses commas within the second section, so it needs a stronger indicator than a comma (i.e. a semicolon) to separate the two main groupings.



                Clarity to your readers is more important than arbitrary rules!



                P.S. I'm writing this as a Brit, not an American, so the opinions on your side of 'the pond' may be different!






                share|improve this answer













                In my view, 'Guidelines' are just that: guidelines; they are not rules that must be followed. Does the additional punctuation make it easier and/or clearer for the reader? Does it save the reader having to do a 'double think' and/or having to go back and re-read the sentence? Unless you are writing for a publisher who has strict rules about such issues, then do what seems appropriate and what you think would be clearest for your readers.



                Personally, I would put a semicolon after "training" in both forms of your sentence. In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is more important in format B than in format A, because format A already has the numbering that clearly separates the two groups, whereas B does not have that extra 'break'.



                For similar reasons, I would argue that the use of a semicolon (as opposed to a comma) is more important in B than in A, because again the numbering in A makes the division of the two groups clear. On the other hand, B already uses commas within the second section, so it needs a stronger indicator than a comma (i.e. a semicolon) to separate the two main groupings.



                Clarity to your readers is more important than arbitrary rules!



                P.S. I'm writing this as a Brit, not an American, so the opinions on your side of 'the pond' may be different!







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 8 hours ago









                TrevorDTrevorD

                10.6k22257




                10.6k22257






























                    draft saved

                    draft discarded




















































                    Thanks for contributing an answer to English Language & Usage Stack Exchange!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid



                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function () {
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fenglish.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f488842%2fdo-i-need-a-semicolon-to-separate-two-items-with-internal-commas-in-a-numbered-r%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                    }
                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    How did Captain America manage to do this?

                    迪纳利

                    南乌拉尔铁路局