“Would have not” vs. “would not have”












4

















  • That would not have happened if John had completed his work.


  • That would have not happened if John had completed his work.





The former seems correct. The latter doesn't seem incorrect.



Are there any cases where one ought to use the latter instead of the former?










share|improve this question

























  • The second example is awkward and clumsy.

    – Tristan r
    Jul 5 '14 at 22:26











  • related: english.stackexchange.com/questions/23152/…

    – Kit Z. Fox
    Jul 7 '14 at 13:17
















4

















  • That would not have happened if John had completed his work.


  • That would have not happened if John had completed his work.





The former seems correct. The latter doesn't seem incorrect.



Are there any cases where one ought to use the latter instead of the former?










share|improve this question

























  • The second example is awkward and clumsy.

    – Tristan r
    Jul 5 '14 at 22:26











  • related: english.stackexchange.com/questions/23152/…

    – Kit Z. Fox
    Jul 7 '14 at 13:17














4












4








4










  • That would not have happened if John had completed his work.


  • That would have not happened if John had completed his work.





The former seems correct. The latter doesn't seem incorrect.



Are there any cases where one ought to use the latter instead of the former?










share|improve this question


















  • That would not have happened if John had completed his work.


  • That would have not happened if John had completed his work.





The former seems correct. The latter doesn't seem incorrect.



Are there any cases where one ought to use the latter instead of the former?







word-order negation conditionals






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Jul 6 '14 at 0:24







Hal

















asked Jul 5 '14 at 18:36









HalHal

1,35931426




1,35931426













  • The second example is awkward and clumsy.

    – Tristan r
    Jul 5 '14 at 22:26











  • related: english.stackexchange.com/questions/23152/…

    – Kit Z. Fox
    Jul 7 '14 at 13:17



















  • The second example is awkward and clumsy.

    – Tristan r
    Jul 5 '14 at 22:26











  • related: english.stackexchange.com/questions/23152/…

    – Kit Z. Fox
    Jul 7 '14 at 13:17

















The second example is awkward and clumsy.

– Tristan r
Jul 5 '14 at 22:26





The second example is awkward and clumsy.

– Tristan r
Jul 5 '14 at 22:26













related: english.stackexchange.com/questions/23152/…

– Kit Z. Fox
Jul 7 '14 at 13:17





related: english.stackexchange.com/questions/23152/…

– Kit Z. Fox
Jul 7 '14 at 13:17










4 Answers
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Well, in my opinion when we say "I would not like to know him" the word "not" makes the verb "to like" negative but when we say "I would like not to know him" the word "not" makes the verb "to know" negative. These are different situations.






share|improve this answer































    1














    The latter seems very wrong to me. Putting the word "not" after "should have" may possibly be correct form in other languages, but seems to me to be incorrect in American English. Also, I'm no English professor; but I would question the use of a comma in that sentence.






    share|improve this answer































      0














      I think the difference in these two sentences ( I would not like to know him & I would like not to know him ) is the quality the emphasizing on the meaning . 🙂





      share








      New contributor




      the seeker19 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.




























        -1














        The latter seems ungrammatical.



        Negation 'not' ought to be placed right after a modal verb. Of the second sentence, 'would' is a modal auxiliary verb. The verb 'have', in here, is conceived as a principal verb.
        Let me bring the following example to your attention.



        I drink tea.



        The negative of this sentence would be; I do not drink tea. It is quite clear that the negation 'not' comes soon after the primary auxiliary verb 'do'.



        On the contrary, the sentence 'I do drink not tea' is ungrammatical, and hence incorrect.
        Therefore, according to my knowledge of English Grammar, the sentence, 'That would not have happened if John had completed his work.' is grammatical.






        share|improve this answer
























        • Unfortunately, the example you give in reference to drinking tea is not apt. Would have not vs. would not have can have distinct meanings due to the imposition of a different modal verb than do. The verb would invokes types of hypotheticals in which case the two possibilities can be distinct (would not have vs. would have not).

          – virmaior
          Jul 6 '14 at 16:41











        • In my perspective, I solidly believe, you attention was too much drawn to my example. I wanted to emphasis the fact that the negation 'not' comes directly after any auxiliary verb; it could be all the modal verbs as well as all the primary auxiliary verbs. I am speaking of its grammar. The sentence itself could invoke different possibilities, but one could not change its grammar. If you could find me a perfective sentence where the negation has placed after a principal verb.

          – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
          Jul 6 '14 at 18:31











        • By 'perfective' I meant a sentence like 'He would have visited .......'. The negative of this sentence clearly is; He would not have visited, NOT He would have not visited.

          – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
          Jul 6 '14 at 18:32











        • No, I'm not being distracted by the example. Whoever taught you the rule is mistaken. "I would not like to know him" and "I would like not to know him" are both valid sentences with different meanings.

          – virmaior
          Jul 6 '14 at 22:49











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        4 Answers
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        4 Answers
        4






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        active

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        active

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        2














        Well, in my opinion when we say "I would not like to know him" the word "not" makes the verb "to like" negative but when we say "I would like not to know him" the word "not" makes the verb "to know" negative. These are different situations.






        share|improve this answer




























          2














          Well, in my opinion when we say "I would not like to know him" the word "not" makes the verb "to like" negative but when we say "I would like not to know him" the word "not" makes the verb "to know" negative. These are different situations.






          share|improve this answer


























            2












            2








            2







            Well, in my opinion when we say "I would not like to know him" the word "not" makes the verb "to like" negative but when we say "I would like not to know him" the word "not" makes the verb "to know" negative. These are different situations.






            share|improve this answer













            Well, in my opinion when we say "I would not like to know him" the word "not" makes the verb "to like" negative but when we say "I would like not to know him" the word "not" makes the verb "to know" negative. These are different situations.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Oct 24 '15 at 10:39









            HilarioHilario

            212




            212

























                1














                The latter seems very wrong to me. Putting the word "not" after "should have" may possibly be correct form in other languages, but seems to me to be incorrect in American English. Also, I'm no English professor; but I would question the use of a comma in that sentence.






                share|improve this answer




























                  1














                  The latter seems very wrong to me. Putting the word "not" after "should have" may possibly be correct form in other languages, but seems to me to be incorrect in American English. Also, I'm no English professor; but I would question the use of a comma in that sentence.






                  share|improve this answer


























                    1












                    1








                    1







                    The latter seems very wrong to me. Putting the word "not" after "should have" may possibly be correct form in other languages, but seems to me to be incorrect in American English. Also, I'm no English professor; but I would question the use of a comma in that sentence.






                    share|improve this answer













                    The latter seems very wrong to me. Putting the word "not" after "should have" may possibly be correct form in other languages, but seems to me to be incorrect in American English. Also, I'm no English professor; but I would question the use of a comma in that sentence.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Jul 5 '14 at 22:39









                    user83140user83140

                    574




                    574























                        0














                        I think the difference in these two sentences ( I would not like to know him & I would like not to know him ) is the quality the emphasizing on the meaning . 🙂





                        share








                        New contributor




                        the seeker19 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.

























                          0














                          I think the difference in these two sentences ( I would not like to know him & I would like not to know him ) is the quality the emphasizing on the meaning . 🙂





                          share








                          New contributor




                          the seeker19 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                            0












                            0








                            0







                            I think the difference in these two sentences ( I would not like to know him & I would like not to know him ) is the quality the emphasizing on the meaning . 🙂





                            share








                            New contributor




                            the seeker19 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                            I think the difference in these two sentences ( I would not like to know him & I would like not to know him ) is the quality the emphasizing on the meaning . 🙂






                            share








                            New contributor




                            the seeker19 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                            share


                            share






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                            answered 3 mins ago









                            the seeker19the seeker19

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                                -1














                                The latter seems ungrammatical.



                                Negation 'not' ought to be placed right after a modal verb. Of the second sentence, 'would' is a modal auxiliary verb. The verb 'have', in here, is conceived as a principal verb.
                                Let me bring the following example to your attention.



                                I drink tea.



                                The negative of this sentence would be; I do not drink tea. It is quite clear that the negation 'not' comes soon after the primary auxiliary verb 'do'.



                                On the contrary, the sentence 'I do drink not tea' is ungrammatical, and hence incorrect.
                                Therefore, according to my knowledge of English Grammar, the sentence, 'That would not have happened if John had completed his work.' is grammatical.






                                share|improve this answer
























                                • Unfortunately, the example you give in reference to drinking tea is not apt. Would have not vs. would not have can have distinct meanings due to the imposition of a different modal verb than do. The verb would invokes types of hypotheticals in which case the two possibilities can be distinct (would not have vs. would have not).

                                  – virmaior
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 16:41











                                • In my perspective, I solidly believe, you attention was too much drawn to my example. I wanted to emphasis the fact that the negation 'not' comes directly after any auxiliary verb; it could be all the modal verbs as well as all the primary auxiliary verbs. I am speaking of its grammar. The sentence itself could invoke different possibilities, but one could not change its grammar. If you could find me a perfective sentence where the negation has placed after a principal verb.

                                  – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 18:31











                                • By 'perfective' I meant a sentence like 'He would have visited .......'. The negative of this sentence clearly is; He would not have visited, NOT He would have not visited.

                                  – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 18:32











                                • No, I'm not being distracted by the example. Whoever taught you the rule is mistaken. "I would not like to know him" and "I would like not to know him" are both valid sentences with different meanings.

                                  – virmaior
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 22:49
















                                -1














                                The latter seems ungrammatical.



                                Negation 'not' ought to be placed right after a modal verb. Of the second sentence, 'would' is a modal auxiliary verb. The verb 'have', in here, is conceived as a principal verb.
                                Let me bring the following example to your attention.



                                I drink tea.



                                The negative of this sentence would be; I do not drink tea. It is quite clear that the negation 'not' comes soon after the primary auxiliary verb 'do'.



                                On the contrary, the sentence 'I do drink not tea' is ungrammatical, and hence incorrect.
                                Therefore, according to my knowledge of English Grammar, the sentence, 'That would not have happened if John had completed his work.' is grammatical.






                                share|improve this answer
























                                • Unfortunately, the example you give in reference to drinking tea is not apt. Would have not vs. would not have can have distinct meanings due to the imposition of a different modal verb than do. The verb would invokes types of hypotheticals in which case the two possibilities can be distinct (would not have vs. would have not).

                                  – virmaior
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 16:41











                                • In my perspective, I solidly believe, you attention was too much drawn to my example. I wanted to emphasis the fact that the negation 'not' comes directly after any auxiliary verb; it could be all the modal verbs as well as all the primary auxiliary verbs. I am speaking of its grammar. The sentence itself could invoke different possibilities, but one could not change its grammar. If you could find me a perfective sentence where the negation has placed after a principal verb.

                                  – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 18:31











                                • By 'perfective' I meant a sentence like 'He would have visited .......'. The negative of this sentence clearly is; He would not have visited, NOT He would have not visited.

                                  – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 18:32











                                • No, I'm not being distracted by the example. Whoever taught you the rule is mistaken. "I would not like to know him" and "I would like not to know him" are both valid sentences with different meanings.

                                  – virmaior
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 22:49














                                -1












                                -1








                                -1







                                The latter seems ungrammatical.



                                Negation 'not' ought to be placed right after a modal verb. Of the second sentence, 'would' is a modal auxiliary verb. The verb 'have', in here, is conceived as a principal verb.
                                Let me bring the following example to your attention.



                                I drink tea.



                                The negative of this sentence would be; I do not drink tea. It is quite clear that the negation 'not' comes soon after the primary auxiliary verb 'do'.



                                On the contrary, the sentence 'I do drink not tea' is ungrammatical, and hence incorrect.
                                Therefore, according to my knowledge of English Grammar, the sentence, 'That would not have happened if John had completed his work.' is grammatical.






                                share|improve this answer













                                The latter seems ungrammatical.



                                Negation 'not' ought to be placed right after a modal verb. Of the second sentence, 'would' is a modal auxiliary verb. The verb 'have', in here, is conceived as a principal verb.
                                Let me bring the following example to your attention.



                                I drink tea.



                                The negative of this sentence would be; I do not drink tea. It is quite clear that the negation 'not' comes soon after the primary auxiliary verb 'do'.



                                On the contrary, the sentence 'I do drink not tea' is ungrammatical, and hence incorrect.
                                Therefore, according to my knowledge of English Grammar, the sentence, 'That would not have happened if John had completed his work.' is grammatical.







                                share|improve this answer












                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer










                                answered Jul 6 '14 at 16:11









                                Nisal Kevin KotinkaduwaNisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa

                                15828




                                15828













                                • Unfortunately, the example you give in reference to drinking tea is not apt. Would have not vs. would not have can have distinct meanings due to the imposition of a different modal verb than do. The verb would invokes types of hypotheticals in which case the two possibilities can be distinct (would not have vs. would have not).

                                  – virmaior
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 16:41











                                • In my perspective, I solidly believe, you attention was too much drawn to my example. I wanted to emphasis the fact that the negation 'not' comes directly after any auxiliary verb; it could be all the modal verbs as well as all the primary auxiliary verbs. I am speaking of its grammar. The sentence itself could invoke different possibilities, but one could not change its grammar. If you could find me a perfective sentence where the negation has placed after a principal verb.

                                  – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 18:31











                                • By 'perfective' I meant a sentence like 'He would have visited .......'. The negative of this sentence clearly is; He would not have visited, NOT He would have not visited.

                                  – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 18:32











                                • No, I'm not being distracted by the example. Whoever taught you the rule is mistaken. "I would not like to know him" and "I would like not to know him" are both valid sentences with different meanings.

                                  – virmaior
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 22:49



















                                • Unfortunately, the example you give in reference to drinking tea is not apt. Would have not vs. would not have can have distinct meanings due to the imposition of a different modal verb than do. The verb would invokes types of hypotheticals in which case the two possibilities can be distinct (would not have vs. would have not).

                                  – virmaior
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 16:41











                                • In my perspective, I solidly believe, you attention was too much drawn to my example. I wanted to emphasis the fact that the negation 'not' comes directly after any auxiliary verb; it could be all the modal verbs as well as all the primary auxiliary verbs. I am speaking of its grammar. The sentence itself could invoke different possibilities, but one could not change its grammar. If you could find me a perfective sentence where the negation has placed after a principal verb.

                                  – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 18:31











                                • By 'perfective' I meant a sentence like 'He would have visited .......'. The negative of this sentence clearly is; He would not have visited, NOT He would have not visited.

                                  – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 18:32











                                • No, I'm not being distracted by the example. Whoever taught you the rule is mistaken. "I would not like to know him" and "I would like not to know him" are both valid sentences with different meanings.

                                  – virmaior
                                  Jul 6 '14 at 22:49

















                                Unfortunately, the example you give in reference to drinking tea is not apt. Would have not vs. would not have can have distinct meanings due to the imposition of a different modal verb than do. The verb would invokes types of hypotheticals in which case the two possibilities can be distinct (would not have vs. would have not).

                                – virmaior
                                Jul 6 '14 at 16:41





                                Unfortunately, the example you give in reference to drinking tea is not apt. Would have not vs. would not have can have distinct meanings due to the imposition of a different modal verb than do. The verb would invokes types of hypotheticals in which case the two possibilities can be distinct (would not have vs. would have not).

                                – virmaior
                                Jul 6 '14 at 16:41













                                In my perspective, I solidly believe, you attention was too much drawn to my example. I wanted to emphasis the fact that the negation 'not' comes directly after any auxiliary verb; it could be all the modal verbs as well as all the primary auxiliary verbs. I am speaking of its grammar. The sentence itself could invoke different possibilities, but one could not change its grammar. If you could find me a perfective sentence where the negation has placed after a principal verb.

                                – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
                                Jul 6 '14 at 18:31





                                In my perspective, I solidly believe, you attention was too much drawn to my example. I wanted to emphasis the fact that the negation 'not' comes directly after any auxiliary verb; it could be all the modal verbs as well as all the primary auxiliary verbs. I am speaking of its grammar. The sentence itself could invoke different possibilities, but one could not change its grammar. If you could find me a perfective sentence where the negation has placed after a principal verb.

                                – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
                                Jul 6 '14 at 18:31













                                By 'perfective' I meant a sentence like 'He would have visited .......'. The negative of this sentence clearly is; He would not have visited, NOT He would have not visited.

                                – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
                                Jul 6 '14 at 18:32





                                By 'perfective' I meant a sentence like 'He would have visited .......'. The negative of this sentence clearly is; He would not have visited, NOT He would have not visited.

                                – Nisal Kevin Kotinkaduwa
                                Jul 6 '14 at 18:32













                                No, I'm not being distracted by the example. Whoever taught you the rule is mistaken. "I would not like to know him" and "I would like not to know him" are both valid sentences with different meanings.

                                – virmaior
                                Jul 6 '14 at 22:49





                                No, I'm not being distracted by the example. Whoever taught you the rule is mistaken. "I would not like to know him" and "I would like not to know him" are both valid sentences with different meanings.

                                – virmaior
                                Jul 6 '14 at 22:49


















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