Overthinking “…expect there to be…”
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
This sentence struck me as odd when I casually said it in conversation:
I expect there to be bears.
...meaning I wanted [sarcastically] bears in the cave we were planning on exploring. What allows for the odd construction of "...expect there to be..."?
I scoured the internet, found an EL&U question, found another EL&U question, and discussed with my friends to no avail. Well, to some avail, but I'm still left with questions regarding construction, and how many grammar rules I'm bending or making up.
- The word "expect" always takes an infinitive clause (never a gerund [why?]), which explains the "to be". Could we say that "to be expected" is a verb phrase?
- I think "there" is an Adverbial Demonstrative Pronoun. Adverbial because it's supporting a verb and Demonstrative Pronoun because it's replacing the known noun phrase (the cave). I'm having a hard time backing this up with sources though.
If "there" is adverbial, what verb is it supporting: "expect" or "to be"? Or, is it an entire verb phrase as I mentioned ("to be expected") that's been flip-flopped and split by "there", thus making "there" support both? (I feel like I just made that up but can't find evidence otherwise.)- My friend said "there" is a post-position, because it's after the verb (he's assuming it's supporting "expect") but I read post-positions are not common in English.
Perhaps this is a daft and overthought, unimportant question, but it's been bugging me so I'm hoping for a smarter person to help with an explanation of this construction.
(A side thought, possibly unrelated, but regarding redundancy: If "there" means "the cave", I can say "I expect bears to be in the cave." ("I expect bears to be there.") This has the same meaning as my original sentence, but re-arranged. But I could even say "I expect there to be bears in the cave" or "I expect there to be bears there" which, to me, makes "there" redundant but still grammatically correct. Why?)
grammar construction
asked Oct 23 at 18:16
Gwendolyn
1185
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ yesterday
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
This sentence struck me as odd when I casually said it in conversation:
I expect there to be bears.
...meaning I wanted [sarcastically] bears in the cave we were planning on exploring. What allows for the odd construction of "...expect there to be..."?
I scoured the internet, found an EL&U question, found another EL&U question, and discussed with my friends to no avail. Well, to some avail, but I'm still left with questions regarding construction, and how many grammar rules I'm bending or making up.
- The word "expect" always takes an infinitive clause (never a gerund [why?]), which explains the "to be". Could we say that "to be expected" is a verb phrase?
- I think "there" is an Adverbial Demonstrative Pronoun. Adverbial because it's supporting a verb and Demonstrative Pronoun because it's replacing the known noun phrase (the cave). I'm having a hard time backing this up with sources though.
If "there" is adverbial, what verb is it supporting: "expect" or "to be"? Or, is it an entire verb phrase as I mentioned ("to be expected") that's been flip-flopped and split by "there", thus making "there" support both? (I feel like I just made that up but can't find evidence otherwise.)- My friend said "there" is a post-position, because it's after the verb (he's assuming it's supporting "expect") but I read post-positions are not common in English.
Perhaps this is a daft and overthought, unimportant question, but it's been bugging me so I'm hoping for a smarter person to help with an explanation of this construction.
(A side thought, possibly unrelated, but regarding redundancy: If "there" means "the cave", I can say "I expect bears to be in the cave." ("I expect bears to be there.") This has the same meaning as my original sentence, but re-arranged. But I could even say "I expect there to be bears in the cave" or "I expect there to be bears there" which, to me, makes "there" redundant but still grammatically correct. Why?)
grammar construction
asked Oct 23 at 18:16
Gwendolyn
1185
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ yesterday
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
It sounds normal to me—although perhaps not something that would be commonly said in casual conversation. (For that, there could be bears or I think there will be bears would more likely be heard.)
– Jason Bassford
Oct 23 at 21:47
@JasonBassford That much I understand. Although, interesting, I intended the statement to be more of a " I won't go if there aren't bears" sort of thing. Sort of like if you were to tell a child "I expect you to be in bed by the time I get home."
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 at 21:58
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
This sentence struck me as odd when I casually said it in conversation:
I expect there to be bears.
...meaning I wanted [sarcastically] bears in the cave we were planning on exploring. What allows for the odd construction of "...expect there to be..."?
I scoured the internet, found an EL&U question, found another EL&U question, and discussed with my friends to no avail. Well, to some avail, but I'm still left with questions regarding construction, and how many grammar rules I'm bending or making up.
- The word "expect" always takes an infinitive clause (never a gerund [why?]), which explains the "to be". Could we say that "to be expected" is a verb phrase?
- I think "there" is an Adverbial Demonstrative Pronoun. Adverbial because it's supporting a verb and Demonstrative Pronoun because it's replacing the known noun phrase (the cave). I'm having a hard time backing this up with sources though.
If "there" is adverbial, what verb is it supporting: "expect" or "to be"? Or, is it an entire verb phrase as I mentioned ("to be expected") that's been flip-flopped and split by "there", thus making "there" support both? (I feel like I just made that up but can't find evidence otherwise.)- My friend said "there" is a post-position, because it's after the verb (he's assuming it's supporting "expect") but I read post-positions are not common in English.
Perhaps this is a daft and overthought, unimportant question, but it's been bugging me so I'm hoping for a smarter person to help with an explanation of this construction.
(A side thought, possibly unrelated, but regarding redundancy: If "there" means "the cave", I can say "I expect bears to be in the cave." ("I expect bears to be there.") This has the same meaning as my original sentence, but re-arranged. But I could even say "I expect there to be bears in the cave" or "I expect there to be bears there" which, to me, makes "there" redundant but still grammatically correct. Why?)
grammar construction
asked Oct 23 at 18:16
Gwendolyn
1185
This sentence struck me as odd when I casually said it in conversation:
I expect there to be bears.
...meaning I wanted [sarcastically] bears in the cave we were planning on exploring. What allows for the odd construction of "...expect there to be..."?
I scoured the internet, found an EL&U question, found another EL&U question, and discussed with my friends to no avail. Well, to some avail, but I'm still left with questions regarding construction, and how many grammar rules I'm bending or making up.
- The word "expect" always takes an infinitive clause (never a gerund [why?]), which explains the "to be". Could we say that "to be expected" is a verb phrase?
- I think "there" is an Adverbial Demonstrative Pronoun. Adverbial because it's supporting a verb and Demonstrative Pronoun because it's replacing the known noun phrase (the cave). I'm having a hard time backing this up with sources though.
If "there" is adverbial, what verb is it supporting: "expect" or "to be"? Or, is it an entire verb phrase as I mentioned ("to be expected") that's been flip-flopped and split by "there", thus making "there" support both? (I feel like I just made that up but can't find evidence otherwise.)- My friend said "there" is a post-position, because it's after the verb (he's assuming it's supporting "expect") but I read post-positions are not common in English.
Perhaps this is a daft and overthought, unimportant question, but it's been bugging me so I'm hoping for a smarter person to help with an explanation of this construction.
(A side thought, possibly unrelated, but regarding redundancy: If "there" means "the cave", I can say "I expect bears to be in the cave." ("I expect bears to be there.") This has the same meaning as my original sentence, but re-arranged. But I could even say "I expect there to be bears in the cave" or "I expect there to be bears there" which, to me, makes "there" redundant but still grammatically correct. Why?)
grammar construction
grammar construction
asked Oct 23 at 18:16
Gwendolyn
1185
asked Oct 23 at 18:16
Gwendolyn
1185
asked Oct 23 at 18:16
Gwendolyn
1185
asked Oct 23 at 18:16
Gwendolyn
1185
asked Oct 23 at 18:16
Gwendolyn
1185
1185
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ yesterday
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ yesterday
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
It sounds normal to me—although perhaps not something that would be commonly said in casual conversation. (For that, there could be bears or I think there will be bears would more likely be heard.)
– Jason Bassford
Oct 23 at 21:47
@JasonBassford That much I understand. Although, interesting, I intended the statement to be more of a " I won't go if there aren't bears" sort of thing. Sort of like if you were to tell a child "I expect you to be in bed by the time I get home."
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 at 21:58
add a comment |
It sounds normal to me—although perhaps not something that would be commonly said in casual conversation. (For that, there could be bears or I think there will be bears would more likely be heard.)
– Jason Bassford
Oct 23 at 21:47
@JasonBassford That much I understand. Although, interesting, I intended the statement to be more of a " I won't go if there aren't bears" sort of thing. Sort of like if you were to tell a child "I expect you to be in bed by the time I get home."
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 at 21:58
It sounds normal to me—although perhaps not something that would be commonly said in casual conversation. (For that, there could be bears or I think there will be bears would more likely be heard.)
– Jason Bassford
Oct 23 at 21:47
It sounds normal to me—although perhaps not something that would be commonly said in casual conversation. (For that, there could be bears or I think there will be bears would more likely be heard.)
– Jason Bassford
Oct 23 at 21:47
@JasonBassford That much I understand. Although, interesting, I intended the statement to be more of a " I won't go if there aren't bears" sort of thing. Sort of like if you were to tell a child "I expect you to be in bed by the time I get home."
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 at 21:58
@JasonBassford That much I understand. Although, interesting, I intended the statement to be more of a " I won't go if there aren't bears" sort of thing. Sort of like if you were to tell a child "I expect you to be in bed by the time I get home."
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 at 21:58
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
I don't think expect always takes an infinitive clause. Here's the definition from the Oxford Dictionaries:
expect
VERB
[WITH OBJECT]
Regard (something) as likely to happen.
‘it's as well to expect the worst’
[with object and infinitive] ‘the hearing is expected to last a week’
[with clause] ‘one might expect that Hollywood would adjust its approach’
1.1 Regard (someone) as likely to do or be something.
[with object and infinitive] ‘they were not expecting him to continue’
1.2 Believe that (someone or something) will arrive soon.
‘Celia was expecting a visitor’
1.3 Require (something) as rightfully due or appropriate in the circumstances.
‘we expect great things of you’
1.4 Require (someone) to fulfil an obligation.
[with object and infinitive] ‘we expect employers to pay a reasonable salary’
1.5 (I expect) informal Used to indicate that one supposes something to be so but has no firm evidence.
‘they're just friends of his, I expect’
[with clause] ‘I expect you know them?’
Note especially definition 1.5 -- this is the version you used.
So what you're really saying is my expectation is that there will be bears [in the cave].
answered Oct 23 at 20:43
Roger Sinasohn
9,73611949
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 at 21:29
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
I don't think expect always takes an infinitive clause. Here's the definition from the Oxford Dictionaries:
expect
VERB
[WITH OBJECT]
Regard (something) as likely to happen.
‘it's as well to expect the worst’
[with object and infinitive] ‘the hearing is expected to last a week’
[with clause] ‘one might expect that Hollywood would adjust its approach’
1.1 Regard (someone) as likely to do or be something.
[with object and infinitive] ‘they were not expecting him to continue’
1.2 Believe that (someone or something) will arrive soon.
‘Celia was expecting a visitor’
1.3 Require (something) as rightfully due or appropriate in the circumstances.
‘we expect great things of you’
1.4 Require (someone) to fulfil an obligation.
[with object and infinitive] ‘we expect employers to pay a reasonable salary’
1.5 (I expect) informal Used to indicate that one supposes something to be so but has no firm evidence.
‘they're just friends of his, I expect’
[with clause] ‘I expect you know them?’
Note especially definition 1.5 -- this is the version you used.
So what you're really saying is my expectation is that there will be bears [in the cave].
answered Oct 23 at 20:43
Roger Sinasohn
9,73611949
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 at 21:29
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
I don't think expect always takes an infinitive clause. Here's the definition from the Oxford Dictionaries:
expect
VERB
[WITH OBJECT]
Regard (something) as likely to happen.
‘it's as well to expect the worst’
[with object and infinitive] ‘the hearing is expected to last a week’
[with clause] ‘one might expect that Hollywood would adjust its approach’
1.1 Regard (someone) as likely to do or be something.
[with object and infinitive] ‘they were not expecting him to continue’
1.2 Believe that (someone or something) will arrive soon.
‘Celia was expecting a visitor’
1.3 Require (something) as rightfully due or appropriate in the circumstances.
‘we expect great things of you’
1.4 Require (someone) to fulfil an obligation.
[with object and infinitive] ‘we expect employers to pay a reasonable salary’
1.5 (I expect) informal Used to indicate that one supposes something to be so but has no firm evidence.
‘they're just friends of his, I expect’
[with clause] ‘I expect you know them?’
Note especially definition 1.5 -- this is the version you used.
So what you're really saying is my expectation is that there will be bears [in the cave].
answered Oct 23 at 20:43
Roger Sinasohn
9,73611949
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 at 21:29
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
I don't think expect always takes an infinitive clause. Here's the definition from the Oxford Dictionaries:
expect
VERB
[WITH OBJECT]
Regard (something) as likely to happen.
‘it's as well to expect the worst’
[with object and infinitive] ‘the hearing is expected to last a week’
[with clause] ‘one might expect that Hollywood would adjust its approach’
1.1 Regard (someone) as likely to do or be something.
[with object and infinitive] ‘they were not expecting him to continue’
1.2 Believe that (someone or something) will arrive soon.
‘Celia was expecting a visitor’
1.3 Require (something) as rightfully due or appropriate in the circumstances.
‘we expect great things of you’
1.4 Require (someone) to fulfil an obligation.
[with object and infinitive] ‘we expect employers to pay a reasonable salary’
1.5 (I expect) informal Used to indicate that one supposes something to be so but has no firm evidence.
‘they're just friends of his, I expect’
[with clause] ‘I expect you know them?’
Note especially definition 1.5 -- this is the version you used.
So what you're really saying is my expectation is that there will be bears [in the cave].
answered Oct 23 at 20:43
Roger Sinasohn
9,73611949
I don't think expect always takes an infinitive clause. Here's the definition from the Oxford Dictionaries:
expect
VERB
[WITH OBJECT]
Regard (something) as likely to happen.
‘it's as well to expect the worst’
[with object and infinitive] ‘the hearing is expected to last a week’
[with clause] ‘one might expect that Hollywood would adjust its approach’
1.1 Regard (someone) as likely to do or be something.
[with object and infinitive] ‘they were not expecting him to continue’
1.2 Believe that (someone or something) will arrive soon.
‘Celia was expecting a visitor’
1.3 Require (something) as rightfully due or appropriate in the circumstances.
‘we expect great things of you’
1.4 Require (someone) to fulfil an obligation.
[with object and infinitive] ‘we expect employers to pay a reasonable salary’
1.5 (I expect) informal Used to indicate that one supposes something to be so but has no firm evidence.
‘they're just friends of his, I expect’
[with clause] ‘I expect you know them?’
Note especially definition 1.5 -- this is the version you used.
So what you're really saying is my expectation is that there will be bears [in the cave].
answered Oct 23 at 20:43
Roger Sinasohn
9,73611949
answered Oct 23 at 20:43
Roger Sinasohn
9,73611949
answered Oct 23 at 20:43
Roger Sinasohn
9,73611949
answered Oct 23 at 20:43
Roger Sinasohn
9,73611949
9,73611949
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 at 21:29
add a comment |
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 at 21:29
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 at 21:29
Thanks Roger! This only helped answer one of my questions, though (I know, multi-part questions can be rather tedious). I know what I'm saying, as in what the sentence means, I just don't really know why it can be written like that (along with all my questions about "there" and "to be"). Thanks for help on the "expect" part though!
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 at 21:29
add a comment |
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fenglish.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f469782%2foverthinking-expect-there-to-be%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
It sounds normal to me—although perhaps not something that would be commonly said in casual conversation. (For that, there could be bears or I think there will be bears would more likely be heard.)
– Jason Bassford
Oct 23 at 21:47
@JasonBassford That much I understand. Although, interesting, I intended the statement to be more of a " I won't go if there aren't bears" sort of thing. Sort of like if you were to tell a child "I expect you to be in bed by the time I get home."
– Gwendolyn
Oct 23 at 21:58