Pronunciation of PhD [duplicate]

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“Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?

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Why is PhD read as /piːeɪtʃˈdiː/ (from Oxford Dictionary) and not, for example, like /fˈdiː/ , while diagraph ph is read as /f/ in Latin and Greek words? Why do we write Ph if not to represent the /f/ sound?

There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.

edited 6 hours ago

Kevin

6,55232142

asked 10 hours ago

Konstantin Morenko

1603

New contributor

marked as duplicate by FumbleFingers, Michael Harvey, user240918, curiousdannii, Scott 2 hours ago

This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.

3

To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
10 hours ago

3

Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago

4

In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
7 hours ago

3

The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
– Azor Ahai
4 hours ago

add a comment |

up vote
10
down vote

favorite

This question already has an answer here:

“Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?

3 answers

There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.

edited 6 hours ago

Kevin

6,55232142

asked 10 hours ago

Konstantin Morenko

1603

New contributor

marked as duplicate by FumbleFingers, Michael Harvey, user240918, curiousdannii, Scott 2 hours ago

This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.

3

To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
10 hours ago

3

Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago

4

In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
7 hours ago

3

The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
– Azor Ahai
4 hours ago

add a comment |

up vote
10
down vote

favorite

This question already has an answer here:

“Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?

3 answers

There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.

edited 6 hours ago

Kevin

6,55232142

asked 10 hours ago

Konstantin Morenko

1603

New contributor

This question already has an answer here:

“Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?

3 answers

There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.

This question already has an answer here:

“Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?

3 answers

pronunciation

edited 6 hours ago

Kevin

6,55232142

asked 10 hours ago

Konstantin Morenko

1603

New contributor

edited 6 hours ago

Kevin

6,55232142

asked 10 hours ago

Konstantin Morenko

1603

New contributor

edited 6 hours ago

Kevin

6,55232142

edited 6 hours ago

Kevin

6,55232142

edited 6 hours ago

Kevin

6,55232142

asked 10 hours ago

Konstantin Morenko

1603

New contributor

asked 10 hours ago

Konstantin Morenko

1603

asked 10 hours ago

Konstantin Morenko

1603

New contributor

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marked as duplicate by FumbleFingers, Michael Harvey, user240918, curiousdannii, Scott 2 hours ago

This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.

marked as duplicate by FumbleFingers, Michael Harvey, user240918, curiousdannii, Scott 2 hours ago

This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.

3

To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
10 hours ago

3

Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago

4

In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
7 hours ago

3

The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
– Azor Ahai
4 hours ago

add a comment |

3

To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
10 hours ago

3

Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago

4

In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
7 hours ago

3

The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
– Azor Ahai
4 hours ago

To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
10 hours ago

Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago

In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
7 hours ago

The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
– Azor Ahai
4 hours ago

add a comment |

2 Answers
2

active

oldest

votes

up vote
16
down vote

Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.

answered 10 hours ago

Carly

1,396213

1

But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago

2

Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago

1

Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago

1

PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago

1

@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago

|
show 4 more comments

up vote
16
down vote

PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.

As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.

Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.

answered 8 hours ago

Mark Beadles

19.1k35285

So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago

4

@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago

1

"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago

add a comment |

2 Answers
2

active

oldest

votes

2 Answers
2

active

oldest

votes

up vote
16
down vote

answered 10 hours ago

Carly

1,396213

1

But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago

2

Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago

1

Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago

1

PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago

1

@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago

|
show 4 more comments

up vote
16
down vote

answered 10 hours ago

Carly

1,396213

1

But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago

2

Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago

1

Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago

1

PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago

1

@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago

|
show 4 more comments

up vote
16
down vote

answered 10 hours ago

Carly

1,396213

answered 10 hours ago

Carly

1,396213

answered 10 hours ago

Carly

1,396213

answered 10 hours ago

Carly

1,396213

answered 10 hours ago

Carly

1,396213

1

But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago

2

Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago

1

Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago

1

PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago

1

@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago

|
show 4 more comments

1

But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago

2

Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago

1

Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago

1

PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago

1

@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago

But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago

Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago

Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago

PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago

@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago

|
show 4 more comments

up vote
16
down vote

Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.

answered 8 hours ago

Mark Beadles

19.1k35285

So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago

4

@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago

1

"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago

add a comment |

up vote
16
down vote

Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.

answered 8 hours ago

Mark Beadles

19.1k35285

So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago

4

@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago

1

"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago

add a comment |

up vote
16
down vote

Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.

answered 8 hours ago

Mark Beadles

19.1k35285

Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.

answered 8 hours ago

Mark Beadles

19.1k35285

answered 8 hours ago

Mark Beadles

19.1k35285

answered 8 hours ago

Mark Beadles

19.1k35285

answered 8 hours ago

Mark Beadles

19.1k35285

So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago

4

@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago

1

"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago

add a comment |

So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago

4

@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago

1

"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago

So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago

@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago

"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago

add a comment |

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