Do you waste sorcery points if you try to apply metamagic to a spell from a scroll but fail to cast it?












21












$begingroup$


To cast a spell from a scroll that is on your list but of a higher level you can cast, you need to make a spellcasting ability check (wasting the spell scroll on a failure).



What happens if a low level sorcerer tries to apply metamagic to a high level spell he attempts to cast from a spell scroll, but fails the check ? Does he also waste the sorcery points, or no ?



Ex: Bob the 3rd level sorcerer with the Twinning Metamagic trying to cast a Twinned Haste from a spell scroll and failing the DC 13 check. Would he also waste 3 sorcery points ?






dnd-5e spells magic-items sorcerer metamagic







share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related on Can a sorcerer use metamagic when casting a spell via a spell scroll?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    yesterday
















21












$begingroup$


To cast a spell from a scroll that is on your list but of a higher level you can cast, you need to make a spellcasting ability check (wasting the spell scroll on a failure).



What happens if a low level sorcerer tries to apply metamagic to a high level spell he attempts to cast from a spell scroll, but fails the check ? Does he also waste the sorcery points, or no ?



Ex: Bob the 3rd level sorcerer with the Twinning Metamagic trying to cast a Twinned Haste from a spell scroll and failing the DC 13 check. Would he also waste 3 sorcery points ?






dnd-5e spells magic-items sorcerer metamagic







share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related on Can a sorcerer use metamagic when casting a spell via a spell scroll?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    yesterday














21












21








21


1



$begingroup$


To cast a spell from a scroll that is on your list but of a higher level you can cast, you need to make a spellcasting ability check (wasting the spell scroll on a failure).



What happens if a low level sorcerer tries to apply metamagic to a high level spell he attempts to cast from a spell scroll, but fails the check ? Does he also waste the sorcery points, or no ?



Ex: Bob the 3rd level sorcerer with the Twinning Metamagic trying to cast a Twinned Haste from a spell scroll and failing the DC 13 check. Would he also waste 3 sorcery points ?






dnd-5e spells magic-items sorcerer metamagic







share|improve this question











$endgroup$




To cast a spell from a scroll that is on your list but of a higher level you can cast, you need to make a spellcasting ability check (wasting the spell scroll on a failure).



What happens if a low level sorcerer tries to apply metamagic to a high level spell he attempts to cast from a spell scroll, but fails the check ? Does he also waste the sorcery points, or no ?



Ex: Bob the 3rd level sorcerer with the Twinning Metamagic trying to cast a Twinned Haste from a spell scroll and failing the DC 13 check. Would he also waste 3 sorcery points ?






dnd-5e spells magic-items sorcerer metamagic




dnd-5e spells magic-items sorcerer metamagic






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited yesterday









V2Blast

25.3k484156




25.3k484156










asked yesterday









Gael LGael L

9,172342172




9,172342172








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related on Can a sorcerer use metamagic when casting a spell via a spell scroll?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    yesterday














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related on Can a sorcerer use metamagic when casting a spell via a spell scroll?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    yesterday








1




1




$begingroup$
Related on Can a sorcerer use metamagic when casting a spell via a spell scroll?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday




$begingroup$
Related on Can a sorcerer use metamagic when casting a spell via a spell scroll?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















36












$begingroup$

No, metamagic only takes effect when you cast the spell



All the sorcerer's metamagic abilities have wording like:




When you cast a spell that...




If you failed to cast the spell, you don't get to invoke the metamagic ability in the first place, so spending sorcery points is contingent on successfully casting the spell in the first place.



Scrolls additionally say that:




If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




So that supports the idea that if you fail the check, no spellcasting has taken place.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
    $endgroup$
    – Mindwin
    yesterday






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
    $endgroup$
    – Carl Kevinson
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
    $endgroup$
    – Pureferret
    16 hours ago



















7












$begingroup$

No: if you fail with the scroll, you haven't cast the spell.



Every metamagic option but one begins with the phrase "when you cast a spell." That's what we'll be discussing. (Empowered Spell is "when you roll damage for a spell," which only happens after the spell successfully takes effect, so we'll ignore this irrelevant case.)



So, if you try but fail when using a spell scroll, do you count as casting the spell? Let's look at the rules for spell scrolls (emphasis mine):




If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




If the spell is too high level, you have to make an ability check to see if you can even cast it, and if you fail the check then there is no effect whatsoever. This means you haven't actually cast the spell (if you did, there would have been an effect), so you wouldn't have been able to apply a metamagic option to it yet. Or, phrased another way, the sorcery point would not have been wasted.






share|improve this answer









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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    36












    $begingroup$

    No, metamagic only takes effect when you cast the spell



    All the sorcerer's metamagic abilities have wording like:




    When you cast a spell that...




    If you failed to cast the spell, you don't get to invoke the metamagic ability in the first place, so spending sorcery points is contingent on successfully casting the spell in the first place.



    Scrolls additionally say that:




    If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




    So that supports the idea that if you fail the check, no spellcasting has taken place.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
      $endgroup$
      – Mindwin
      yesterday






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
      $endgroup$
      – Carl Kevinson
      yesterday










    • $begingroup$
      @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
      $endgroup$
      – Pureferret
      16 hours ago
















    36












    $begingroup$

    No, metamagic only takes effect when you cast the spell



    All the sorcerer's metamagic abilities have wording like:




    When you cast a spell that...




    If you failed to cast the spell, you don't get to invoke the metamagic ability in the first place, so spending sorcery points is contingent on successfully casting the spell in the first place.



    Scrolls additionally say that:




    If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




    So that supports the idea that if you fail the check, no spellcasting has taken place.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
      $endgroup$
      – Mindwin
      yesterday






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
      $endgroup$
      – Carl Kevinson
      yesterday










    • $begingroup$
      @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
      $endgroup$
      – Pureferret
      16 hours ago














    36












    36








    36





    $begingroup$

    No, metamagic only takes effect when you cast the spell



    All the sorcerer's metamagic abilities have wording like:




    When you cast a spell that...




    If you failed to cast the spell, you don't get to invoke the metamagic ability in the first place, so spending sorcery points is contingent on successfully casting the spell in the first place.



    Scrolls additionally say that:




    If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




    So that supports the idea that if you fail the check, no spellcasting has taken place.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    No, metamagic only takes effect when you cast the spell



    All the sorcerer's metamagic abilities have wording like:




    When you cast a spell that...




    If you failed to cast the spell, you don't get to invoke the metamagic ability in the first place, so spending sorcery points is contingent on successfully casting the spell in the first place.



    Scrolls additionally say that:




    If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




    So that supports the idea that if you fail the check, no spellcasting has taken place.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited yesterday

























    answered yesterday









    CarcerCarcer

    26.2k479139




    26.2k479139












    • $begingroup$
      Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
      $endgroup$
      – Mindwin
      yesterday






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
      $endgroup$
      – Carl Kevinson
      yesterday










    • $begingroup$
      @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
      $endgroup$
      – Pureferret
      16 hours ago


















    • $begingroup$
      Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
      $endgroup$
      – Mindwin
      yesterday






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
      $endgroup$
      – Carl Kevinson
      yesterday










    • $begingroup$
      @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
      $endgroup$
      – Pureferret
      16 hours ago
















    $begingroup$
    Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
    $endgroup$
    – Mindwin
    yesterday




    $begingroup$
    Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
    $endgroup$
    – Mindwin
    yesterday




    2




    2




    $begingroup$
    @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
    $endgroup$
    – Carl Kevinson
    yesterday




    $begingroup$
    @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
    $endgroup$
    – Carl Kevinson
    yesterday












    $begingroup$
    @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
    $endgroup$
    – Pureferret
    16 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
    $endgroup$
    – Pureferret
    16 hours ago













    7












    $begingroup$

    No: if you fail with the scroll, you haven't cast the spell.



    Every metamagic option but one begins with the phrase "when you cast a spell." That's what we'll be discussing. (Empowered Spell is "when you roll damage for a spell," which only happens after the spell successfully takes effect, so we'll ignore this irrelevant case.)



    So, if you try but fail when using a spell scroll, do you count as casting the spell? Let's look at the rules for spell scrolls (emphasis mine):




    If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




    If the spell is too high level, you have to make an ability check to see if you can even cast it, and if you fail the check then there is no effect whatsoever. This means you haven't actually cast the spell (if you did, there would have been an effect), so you wouldn't have been able to apply a metamagic option to it yet. Or, phrased another way, the sorcery point would not have been wasted.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      7












      $begingroup$

      No: if you fail with the scroll, you haven't cast the spell.



      Every metamagic option but one begins with the phrase "when you cast a spell." That's what we'll be discussing. (Empowered Spell is "when you roll damage for a spell," which only happens after the spell successfully takes effect, so we'll ignore this irrelevant case.)



      So, if you try but fail when using a spell scroll, do you count as casting the spell? Let's look at the rules for spell scrolls (emphasis mine):




      If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




      If the spell is too high level, you have to make an ability check to see if you can even cast it, and if you fail the check then there is no effect whatsoever. This means you haven't actually cast the spell (if you did, there would have been an effect), so you wouldn't have been able to apply a metamagic option to it yet. Or, phrased another way, the sorcery point would not have been wasted.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        7












        7








        7





        $begingroup$

        No: if you fail with the scroll, you haven't cast the spell.



        Every metamagic option but one begins with the phrase "when you cast a spell." That's what we'll be discussing. (Empowered Spell is "when you roll damage for a spell," which only happens after the spell successfully takes effect, so we'll ignore this irrelevant case.)



        So, if you try but fail when using a spell scroll, do you count as casting the spell? Let's look at the rules for spell scrolls (emphasis mine):




        If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




        If the spell is too high level, you have to make an ability check to see if you can even cast it, and if you fail the check then there is no effect whatsoever. This means you haven't actually cast the spell (if you did, there would have been an effect), so you wouldn't have been able to apply a metamagic option to it yet. Or, phrased another way, the sorcery point would not have been wasted.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        No: if you fail with the scroll, you haven't cast the spell.



        Every metamagic option but one begins with the phrase "when you cast a spell." That's what we'll be discussing. (Empowered Spell is "when you roll damage for a spell," which only happens after the spell successfully takes effect, so we'll ignore this irrelevant case.)



        So, if you try but fail when using a spell scroll, do you count as casting the spell? Let's look at the rules for spell scrolls (emphasis mine):




        If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




        If the spell is too high level, you have to make an ability check to see if you can even cast it, and if you fail the check then there is no effect whatsoever. This means you haven't actually cast the spell (if you did, there would have been an effect), so you wouldn't have been able to apply a metamagic option to it yet. Or, phrased another way, the sorcery point would not have been wasted.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered yesterday









        BloodcinderBloodcinder

        22.9k380139




        22.9k380139






























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            南乌拉尔铁路局

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            南乌拉尔铁路局 Южно-Уральская железная дорога 成立 1934年1月4日 国家   蘇聯（1934年—1991年）   俄羅斯（1991年—） 总部 车里雅宾斯克 隶属 俄罗斯铁路股份公司 路局代码 80 铁路里程 4,934.9公里 奖项 网址 http://yuzd.rzd.ru/ 查 论 编 南乌拉尔铁路局 （俄语： Южно-Уральская железная дорога ， 羅馬化： Yuzhno-Uralskaya zheleznaya doroga ，简称 ЮУЖД ）是俄罗斯铁路股份公司属下的铁路管理局之一，总部位于车里雅宾斯克，负责管辖俄罗斯联邦乌拉尔南部地区的铁路系统，范围包括奥伦堡州、车里雅宾斯克州、库尔干州的大部分铁路，以及萨马拉州、斯维尔德洛夫斯克州、巴什科尔托斯坦共和国的少部分铁路，并有部分铁路延伸至或穿过哈萨克斯坦境内。南乌拉尔铁路局的营业里程为4,934.9公里，与伏尔加铁路局、古比雪夫铁路局、斯维尔德洛夫斯克铁路局、西西伯利亚铁路局相邻，并与南方的哈萨克斯坦铁路连接。 外部链接 （俄文） Южно-Уральская железная дорога — филиал ОАО РЖД （俄文） 南乌拉尔铁路局管辖路线图（一） （俄文） 南乌拉尔铁路局管辖路线图（二） 查 论 编 俄罗斯铁路（集团）股份公司 十月铁路局 · 莫斯科铁路局 · 北高加索铁路局 · 高尔基铁路局 · 古比雪夫铁路局 · 北方铁路局 · 伏尔加铁路局 · 东南铁路局 · 斯维尔德洛夫斯克铁路局 · 南乌拉尔铁路局 · 西西伯利亚铁路局 · 克拉斯诺亚尔斯克铁路局 · 东西伯利亚铁路局 · 后贝加尔铁路局 · 远东铁路局 · 加里宁格勒铁路局 This page is only for reference, If you need detailed information, please check here
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