Is a comma or other punctuation adjacent to an em dash grammatical? [on hold]












0















(NOT A DUPLICATE — Go to the end for research.)



THIS QUESTION HAS BEEN PUT ON HOLD FOR FALLACIOUS REASONS:




  1. THE QUESTION IS CLEAR -- ABUNDANTLY. IT COULDN'T BE MORE CLEAR:



IS A COMMA OR OTHER PUNCTUATION NEXT TO AN EM DASH GRAMMATICAL?




WHAT ISN'T UNDERSTANDABLE ABOUT THAT? NOTHING




  1. THE QUESTION IS NOT OFF-TOPIC AS IT IS ABOUT GRAMMAR, WRITTEN GRAMMAR, JUST LIKE:


    • "HOW IS PUNCTUATION USED AFTER DASHES?" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC

    • "PUNCTUATION FOLLOWING M-DASH AND SPEACH MARK?" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC

    • "COMBINING M-DASH AND COMMA" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC, AND

    • "MIXING EM-DASH AND COMMA?" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC




ALL OF THE ABOVE I RESEARCHED AND REFERENCED IN THIS QUESTION. NONE OF THEM ARE FLAGGED AS OFF-TOPIC BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT, JUST LIKE THIS ISN'T.



A LOT OF EFFORT AND RESEARCH WENT INTO THIS COMPLETELY VALID QUESTION, WHICH SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN PUT ON HOLD FOR PETTY OR POLITICAL REASONS, NOT ANY VALID ONE.



Are there situations in which punctuation (e.g., comma (,), period (.), exclamation point (!), question mark (?), colon (:), and semicolon (;)) may grammatically appear immediately before or after an em dash (—)?



Example Citation:




Dare not rob dear Ozzy, our still-reigning Prince of Darkness—Long live the Prince!—, of his honorificabilitudinitatibus with such unseemly floccinaucinihilipilification.




-or-




Dare not rob dear Ozzy, our still-reigning Prince of Darkness—Long live the Prince!—of his honorificabilitudinitatibus with such unseemly floccinaucinihilipilification.




In my estimation, which doesn't concede omitting it would necessarily be ungrammatical, the punctuation after the em dash in the first example does belong there. That's because without it, it doesn't, in my view, clearly link the ensuing "of" to the aforementioned "Ozzy" as it should; without it, it becomes unclear what "of" attaches to, kind of like if you left a parenthesis off in a mathematical equation containing multiple sets of nesting parentheses. But I'm having a difficult time either solidly justifying or solidly debunking my estimation grammatically. Thus, I'm coming to you all for help.



Here are some research examples of why I think it may be allowable:




Beauty is truth, truth beauty, —that is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.



-John Keats in "Ode to a Grecian Urn"




-and-




...turn awry and lose the name of action. — Soft you now, the fair Ophelia! — Nymph, in thy orisons be all my sins remembered."



-William Shakespeare in Hamlet




Now, I realize these references are old and grammar changes, so what was grammatical then may not be grammatical now. I am hard-pressed, however, to find anything that specifically addresses the grammaticality of this issue, i.e., if the rule has changed, specifically when and where and how and why and by whom?



I understand some style guides may weigh in on this, which weigh-ins I would appreciate—if only for the sake of consensus-building in lieu of any actual grammar source providing a definitive answer—since I don't have paid subscriptions to any of the major style guides and some of you might. That said, I'm not actually looking for answers as to style but answers as to grammar, for many style guides prescriptively bar punctuation that nevertheless remains grammatical (e.g., the Oxford comma).



Brass tacks: Is the comma after the em dash in the example citation I provided above at the top grammatical or not? Is Keats' comma grammatical? Is Shakespeare's period? Is Shakespeare's exclamation point?



Please source your answer if you can, but I do recognize that you yourselves are sources and so won't turn my nose at a predominance of your expert opinions coming in one way or the other.



RESEARCH - NOT A DUPLICATE QUESTION



I did research this question and found this to be the most closely related question on this website:



How is punctuation used after dashes?



This is NOT A DUPLICATE of that, however. My question also asks about punctuation before em dashes and expressly seeks answers of grammar, not style. The asker doesn't explicate either way, grammar or style, but the asker implies only looking for a style answer as the asker selected an answer before any answers of grammar are given, only recommendations about style.



To be clear, no answers of grammar are posted to this other question, meaning the two answers to it fail to answer my question, as follows:




  • The selected answer doesn't even answer the asker's question, much
    less mine, because it cheats the asker by instead recommending
    sidestepping the issue by rephrasing, which isn't a bona fide
    answer, like what if I'm not the writer and am tasked to grade a
    paper as it is written, not as it could've been written?

  • The only other answer, the answer not selected, is actually somewhat
    more helpful, but it doesn't clarify it's an answer of grammar, which is
    what I'm seeking, but only an answer of style, what The Chicago
    Manual of Style
    prescribes. I'm not operating under that style guide
    or any style guide, though. Grammar and style are two different things,
    and I'm looking for an answer of grammar, not style.


Another question that came up in my research that is also NOT A DUPLICATE is the following:



em dash followed by a comma



The above question is actually marked as a duplicate of the one listed further above, but it does have an answer, so I did look into it even though the question itself likewise does not address my complete question, neither specifically nor generally. The one answer also falls short by providing:




  • an answer whose only source links to a style guide—not a widely
    accepted style guide like MLA or APA, either, but Menlo College's
    style guide, some small college in California—rather than any grammar
    textbook, grammar source, or any statement it's grammar,
    not style, like by using words like "grammatically required,"
    particularly in lieu of words like "recommended";

  • an answer whose only source fails to elucidate this issue
    expressly—or even implicitly in the handful of examples it gives; and

  • an answer that itself fails to indicate whether or not a comma can
    properly follow an em dash, which is the poster's actual question and
    likely why that only answer provided has been voted down more than
    up, having a -1 score.


So that there's no confusion, regardless of the poor quality of the answer given to this other question, my question has a far broader scope than the question itself and so is not a duplicate of it.



Also NOT A DUPLICATE are all the various other questions I researched with possibly related titles, including but not limited to Combining m-dash and comma, Mixing em-dash and comma, Long dashes between sentences, and Punctuation following em dash and speech mark.










share|improve this question















put on hold as off-topic by Jason Bassford, tchrist 2 days ago



  • This question does not appear to be about English language and usage within the scope defined in the help center.

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.












  • 1





    Well, punctuation is not about grammar. It is a stylistic appurtenance to written communication. That said, the style these days is to avoid multiple kinds of punctuation in a row, except where it can't be helped, as in cases where—am I making sense here?—a parenthetical question is framed by dashes. In Jane Austen's day they had a different style, and just about everything seemed fair game to abut the em dash.

    – Robusto
    2 days ago











  • Parenthetical interjections with an exclamation point work as well.

    – Robusto
    2 days ago











  • I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it is unclear what you're asking when you require a judgement call on grammaticality about a matter that has nothing at all to do with grammar, which comprises the spoken language's syntax and its morphology alone and so can never be about the acceptability of various choices in encoding technologies.

    – tchrist
    2 days ago













  • Submitted for reopening. Explanation given at the top of the question. Explanation will be removed once reopened.

    – Benjamin Harman
    17 mins ago
















0















(NOT A DUPLICATE — Go to the end for research.)



THIS QUESTION HAS BEEN PUT ON HOLD FOR FALLACIOUS REASONS:




  1. THE QUESTION IS CLEAR -- ABUNDANTLY. IT COULDN'T BE MORE CLEAR:



IS A COMMA OR OTHER PUNCTUATION NEXT TO AN EM DASH GRAMMATICAL?




WHAT ISN'T UNDERSTANDABLE ABOUT THAT? NOTHING




  1. THE QUESTION IS NOT OFF-TOPIC AS IT IS ABOUT GRAMMAR, WRITTEN GRAMMAR, JUST LIKE:


    • "HOW IS PUNCTUATION USED AFTER DASHES?" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC

    • "PUNCTUATION FOLLOWING M-DASH AND SPEACH MARK?" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC

    • "COMBINING M-DASH AND COMMA" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC, AND

    • "MIXING EM-DASH AND COMMA?" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC




ALL OF THE ABOVE I RESEARCHED AND REFERENCED IN THIS QUESTION. NONE OF THEM ARE FLAGGED AS OFF-TOPIC BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT, JUST LIKE THIS ISN'T.



A LOT OF EFFORT AND RESEARCH WENT INTO THIS COMPLETELY VALID QUESTION, WHICH SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN PUT ON HOLD FOR PETTY OR POLITICAL REASONS, NOT ANY VALID ONE.



Are there situations in which punctuation (e.g., comma (,), period (.), exclamation point (!), question mark (?), colon (:), and semicolon (;)) may grammatically appear immediately before or after an em dash (—)?



Example Citation:




Dare not rob dear Ozzy, our still-reigning Prince of Darkness—Long live the Prince!—, of his honorificabilitudinitatibus with such unseemly floccinaucinihilipilification.




-or-




Dare not rob dear Ozzy, our still-reigning Prince of Darkness—Long live the Prince!—of his honorificabilitudinitatibus with such unseemly floccinaucinihilipilification.




In my estimation, which doesn't concede omitting it would necessarily be ungrammatical, the punctuation after the em dash in the first example does belong there. That's because without it, it doesn't, in my view, clearly link the ensuing "of" to the aforementioned "Ozzy" as it should; without it, it becomes unclear what "of" attaches to, kind of like if you left a parenthesis off in a mathematical equation containing multiple sets of nesting parentheses. But I'm having a difficult time either solidly justifying or solidly debunking my estimation grammatically. Thus, I'm coming to you all for help.



Here are some research examples of why I think it may be allowable:




Beauty is truth, truth beauty, —that is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.



-John Keats in "Ode to a Grecian Urn"




-and-




...turn awry and lose the name of action. — Soft you now, the fair Ophelia! — Nymph, in thy orisons be all my sins remembered."



-William Shakespeare in Hamlet




Now, I realize these references are old and grammar changes, so what was grammatical then may not be grammatical now. I am hard-pressed, however, to find anything that specifically addresses the grammaticality of this issue, i.e., if the rule has changed, specifically when and where and how and why and by whom?



I understand some style guides may weigh in on this, which weigh-ins I would appreciate—if only for the sake of consensus-building in lieu of any actual grammar source providing a definitive answer—since I don't have paid subscriptions to any of the major style guides and some of you might. That said, I'm not actually looking for answers as to style but answers as to grammar, for many style guides prescriptively bar punctuation that nevertheless remains grammatical (e.g., the Oxford comma).



Brass tacks: Is the comma after the em dash in the example citation I provided above at the top grammatical or not? Is Keats' comma grammatical? Is Shakespeare's period? Is Shakespeare's exclamation point?



Please source your answer if you can, but I do recognize that you yourselves are sources and so won't turn my nose at a predominance of your expert opinions coming in one way or the other.



RESEARCH - NOT A DUPLICATE QUESTION



I did research this question and found this to be the most closely related question on this website:



How is punctuation used after dashes?



This is NOT A DUPLICATE of that, however. My question also asks about punctuation before em dashes and expressly seeks answers of grammar, not style. The asker doesn't explicate either way, grammar or style, but the asker implies only looking for a style answer as the asker selected an answer before any answers of grammar are given, only recommendations about style.



To be clear, no answers of grammar are posted to this other question, meaning the two answers to it fail to answer my question, as follows:




  • The selected answer doesn't even answer the asker's question, much
    less mine, because it cheats the asker by instead recommending
    sidestepping the issue by rephrasing, which isn't a bona fide
    answer, like what if I'm not the writer and am tasked to grade a
    paper as it is written, not as it could've been written?

  • The only other answer, the answer not selected, is actually somewhat
    more helpful, but it doesn't clarify it's an answer of grammar, which is
    what I'm seeking, but only an answer of style, what The Chicago
    Manual of Style
    prescribes. I'm not operating under that style guide
    or any style guide, though. Grammar and style are two different things,
    and I'm looking for an answer of grammar, not style.


Another question that came up in my research that is also NOT A DUPLICATE is the following:



em dash followed by a comma



The above question is actually marked as a duplicate of the one listed further above, but it does have an answer, so I did look into it even though the question itself likewise does not address my complete question, neither specifically nor generally. The one answer also falls short by providing:




  • an answer whose only source links to a style guide—not a widely
    accepted style guide like MLA or APA, either, but Menlo College's
    style guide, some small college in California—rather than any grammar
    textbook, grammar source, or any statement it's grammar,
    not style, like by using words like "grammatically required,"
    particularly in lieu of words like "recommended";

  • an answer whose only source fails to elucidate this issue
    expressly—or even implicitly in the handful of examples it gives; and

  • an answer that itself fails to indicate whether or not a comma can
    properly follow an em dash, which is the poster's actual question and
    likely why that only answer provided has been voted down more than
    up, having a -1 score.


So that there's no confusion, regardless of the poor quality of the answer given to this other question, my question has a far broader scope than the question itself and so is not a duplicate of it.



Also NOT A DUPLICATE are all the various other questions I researched with possibly related titles, including but not limited to Combining m-dash and comma, Mixing em-dash and comma, Long dashes between sentences, and Punctuation following em dash and speech mark.










share|improve this question















put on hold as off-topic by Jason Bassford, tchrist 2 days ago



  • This question does not appear to be about English language and usage within the scope defined in the help center.

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.












  • 1





    Well, punctuation is not about grammar. It is a stylistic appurtenance to written communication. That said, the style these days is to avoid multiple kinds of punctuation in a row, except where it can't be helped, as in cases where—am I making sense here?—a parenthetical question is framed by dashes. In Jane Austen's day they had a different style, and just about everything seemed fair game to abut the em dash.

    – Robusto
    2 days ago











  • Parenthetical interjections with an exclamation point work as well.

    – Robusto
    2 days ago











  • I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it is unclear what you're asking when you require a judgement call on grammaticality about a matter that has nothing at all to do with grammar, which comprises the spoken language's syntax and its morphology alone and so can never be about the acceptability of various choices in encoding technologies.

    – tchrist
    2 days ago













  • Submitted for reopening. Explanation given at the top of the question. Explanation will be removed once reopened.

    – Benjamin Harman
    17 mins ago














0












0








0








(NOT A DUPLICATE — Go to the end for research.)



THIS QUESTION HAS BEEN PUT ON HOLD FOR FALLACIOUS REASONS:




  1. THE QUESTION IS CLEAR -- ABUNDANTLY. IT COULDN'T BE MORE CLEAR:



IS A COMMA OR OTHER PUNCTUATION NEXT TO AN EM DASH GRAMMATICAL?




WHAT ISN'T UNDERSTANDABLE ABOUT THAT? NOTHING




  1. THE QUESTION IS NOT OFF-TOPIC AS IT IS ABOUT GRAMMAR, WRITTEN GRAMMAR, JUST LIKE:


    • "HOW IS PUNCTUATION USED AFTER DASHES?" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC

    • "PUNCTUATION FOLLOWING M-DASH AND SPEACH MARK?" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC

    • "COMBINING M-DASH AND COMMA" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC, AND

    • "MIXING EM-DASH AND COMMA?" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC




ALL OF THE ABOVE I RESEARCHED AND REFERENCED IN THIS QUESTION. NONE OF THEM ARE FLAGGED AS OFF-TOPIC BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT, JUST LIKE THIS ISN'T.



A LOT OF EFFORT AND RESEARCH WENT INTO THIS COMPLETELY VALID QUESTION, WHICH SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN PUT ON HOLD FOR PETTY OR POLITICAL REASONS, NOT ANY VALID ONE.



Are there situations in which punctuation (e.g., comma (,), period (.), exclamation point (!), question mark (?), colon (:), and semicolon (;)) may grammatically appear immediately before or after an em dash (—)?



Example Citation:




Dare not rob dear Ozzy, our still-reigning Prince of Darkness—Long live the Prince!—, of his honorificabilitudinitatibus with such unseemly floccinaucinihilipilification.




-or-




Dare not rob dear Ozzy, our still-reigning Prince of Darkness—Long live the Prince!—of his honorificabilitudinitatibus with such unseemly floccinaucinihilipilification.




In my estimation, which doesn't concede omitting it would necessarily be ungrammatical, the punctuation after the em dash in the first example does belong there. That's because without it, it doesn't, in my view, clearly link the ensuing "of" to the aforementioned "Ozzy" as it should; without it, it becomes unclear what "of" attaches to, kind of like if you left a parenthesis off in a mathematical equation containing multiple sets of nesting parentheses. But I'm having a difficult time either solidly justifying or solidly debunking my estimation grammatically. Thus, I'm coming to you all for help.



Here are some research examples of why I think it may be allowable:




Beauty is truth, truth beauty, —that is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.



-John Keats in "Ode to a Grecian Urn"




-and-




...turn awry and lose the name of action. — Soft you now, the fair Ophelia! — Nymph, in thy orisons be all my sins remembered."



-William Shakespeare in Hamlet




Now, I realize these references are old and grammar changes, so what was grammatical then may not be grammatical now. I am hard-pressed, however, to find anything that specifically addresses the grammaticality of this issue, i.e., if the rule has changed, specifically when and where and how and why and by whom?



I understand some style guides may weigh in on this, which weigh-ins I would appreciate—if only for the sake of consensus-building in lieu of any actual grammar source providing a definitive answer—since I don't have paid subscriptions to any of the major style guides and some of you might. That said, I'm not actually looking for answers as to style but answers as to grammar, for many style guides prescriptively bar punctuation that nevertheless remains grammatical (e.g., the Oxford comma).



Brass tacks: Is the comma after the em dash in the example citation I provided above at the top grammatical or not? Is Keats' comma grammatical? Is Shakespeare's period? Is Shakespeare's exclamation point?



Please source your answer if you can, but I do recognize that you yourselves are sources and so won't turn my nose at a predominance of your expert opinions coming in one way or the other.



RESEARCH - NOT A DUPLICATE QUESTION



I did research this question and found this to be the most closely related question on this website:



How is punctuation used after dashes?



This is NOT A DUPLICATE of that, however. My question also asks about punctuation before em dashes and expressly seeks answers of grammar, not style. The asker doesn't explicate either way, grammar or style, but the asker implies only looking for a style answer as the asker selected an answer before any answers of grammar are given, only recommendations about style.



To be clear, no answers of grammar are posted to this other question, meaning the two answers to it fail to answer my question, as follows:




  • The selected answer doesn't even answer the asker's question, much
    less mine, because it cheats the asker by instead recommending
    sidestepping the issue by rephrasing, which isn't a bona fide
    answer, like what if I'm not the writer and am tasked to grade a
    paper as it is written, not as it could've been written?

  • The only other answer, the answer not selected, is actually somewhat
    more helpful, but it doesn't clarify it's an answer of grammar, which is
    what I'm seeking, but only an answer of style, what The Chicago
    Manual of Style
    prescribes. I'm not operating under that style guide
    or any style guide, though. Grammar and style are two different things,
    and I'm looking for an answer of grammar, not style.


Another question that came up in my research that is also NOT A DUPLICATE is the following:



em dash followed by a comma



The above question is actually marked as a duplicate of the one listed further above, but it does have an answer, so I did look into it even though the question itself likewise does not address my complete question, neither specifically nor generally. The one answer also falls short by providing:




  • an answer whose only source links to a style guide—not a widely
    accepted style guide like MLA or APA, either, but Menlo College's
    style guide, some small college in California—rather than any grammar
    textbook, grammar source, or any statement it's grammar,
    not style, like by using words like "grammatically required,"
    particularly in lieu of words like "recommended";

  • an answer whose only source fails to elucidate this issue
    expressly—or even implicitly in the handful of examples it gives; and

  • an answer that itself fails to indicate whether or not a comma can
    properly follow an em dash, which is the poster's actual question and
    likely why that only answer provided has been voted down more than
    up, having a -1 score.


So that there's no confusion, regardless of the poor quality of the answer given to this other question, my question has a far broader scope than the question itself and so is not a duplicate of it.



Also NOT A DUPLICATE are all the various other questions I researched with possibly related titles, including but not limited to Combining m-dash and comma, Mixing em-dash and comma, Long dashes between sentences, and Punctuation following em dash and speech mark.










share|improve this question
















(NOT A DUPLICATE — Go to the end for research.)



THIS QUESTION HAS BEEN PUT ON HOLD FOR FALLACIOUS REASONS:




  1. THE QUESTION IS CLEAR -- ABUNDANTLY. IT COULDN'T BE MORE CLEAR:



IS A COMMA OR OTHER PUNCTUATION NEXT TO AN EM DASH GRAMMATICAL?




WHAT ISN'T UNDERSTANDABLE ABOUT THAT? NOTHING




  1. THE QUESTION IS NOT OFF-TOPIC AS IT IS ABOUT GRAMMAR, WRITTEN GRAMMAR, JUST LIKE:


    • "HOW IS PUNCTUATION USED AFTER DASHES?" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC

    • "PUNCTUATION FOLLOWING M-DASH AND SPEACH MARK?" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC

    • "COMBINING M-DASH AND COMMA" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC, AND

    • "MIXING EM-DASH AND COMMA?" WASN'T OFF-TOPIC




ALL OF THE ABOVE I RESEARCHED AND REFERENCED IN THIS QUESTION. NONE OF THEM ARE FLAGGED AS OFF-TOPIC BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT, JUST LIKE THIS ISN'T.



A LOT OF EFFORT AND RESEARCH WENT INTO THIS COMPLETELY VALID QUESTION, WHICH SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN PUT ON HOLD FOR PETTY OR POLITICAL REASONS, NOT ANY VALID ONE.



Are there situations in which punctuation (e.g., comma (,), period (.), exclamation point (!), question mark (?), colon (:), and semicolon (;)) may grammatically appear immediately before or after an em dash (—)?



Example Citation:




Dare not rob dear Ozzy, our still-reigning Prince of Darkness—Long live the Prince!—, of his honorificabilitudinitatibus with such unseemly floccinaucinihilipilification.




-or-




Dare not rob dear Ozzy, our still-reigning Prince of Darkness—Long live the Prince!—of his honorificabilitudinitatibus with such unseemly floccinaucinihilipilification.




In my estimation, which doesn't concede omitting it would necessarily be ungrammatical, the punctuation after the em dash in the first example does belong there. That's because without it, it doesn't, in my view, clearly link the ensuing "of" to the aforementioned "Ozzy" as it should; without it, it becomes unclear what "of" attaches to, kind of like if you left a parenthesis off in a mathematical equation containing multiple sets of nesting parentheses. But I'm having a difficult time either solidly justifying or solidly debunking my estimation grammatically. Thus, I'm coming to you all for help.



Here are some research examples of why I think it may be allowable:




Beauty is truth, truth beauty, —that is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.



-John Keats in "Ode to a Grecian Urn"




-and-




...turn awry and lose the name of action. — Soft you now, the fair Ophelia! — Nymph, in thy orisons be all my sins remembered."



-William Shakespeare in Hamlet




Now, I realize these references are old and grammar changes, so what was grammatical then may not be grammatical now. I am hard-pressed, however, to find anything that specifically addresses the grammaticality of this issue, i.e., if the rule has changed, specifically when and where and how and why and by whom?



I understand some style guides may weigh in on this, which weigh-ins I would appreciate—if only for the sake of consensus-building in lieu of any actual grammar source providing a definitive answer—since I don't have paid subscriptions to any of the major style guides and some of you might. That said, I'm not actually looking for answers as to style but answers as to grammar, for many style guides prescriptively bar punctuation that nevertheless remains grammatical (e.g., the Oxford comma).



Brass tacks: Is the comma after the em dash in the example citation I provided above at the top grammatical or not? Is Keats' comma grammatical? Is Shakespeare's period? Is Shakespeare's exclamation point?



Please source your answer if you can, but I do recognize that you yourselves are sources and so won't turn my nose at a predominance of your expert opinions coming in one way or the other.



RESEARCH - NOT A DUPLICATE QUESTION



I did research this question and found this to be the most closely related question on this website:



How is punctuation used after dashes?



This is NOT A DUPLICATE of that, however. My question also asks about punctuation before em dashes and expressly seeks answers of grammar, not style. The asker doesn't explicate either way, grammar or style, but the asker implies only looking for a style answer as the asker selected an answer before any answers of grammar are given, only recommendations about style.



To be clear, no answers of grammar are posted to this other question, meaning the two answers to it fail to answer my question, as follows:




  • The selected answer doesn't even answer the asker's question, much
    less mine, because it cheats the asker by instead recommending
    sidestepping the issue by rephrasing, which isn't a bona fide
    answer, like what if I'm not the writer and am tasked to grade a
    paper as it is written, not as it could've been written?

  • The only other answer, the answer not selected, is actually somewhat
    more helpful, but it doesn't clarify it's an answer of grammar, which is
    what I'm seeking, but only an answer of style, what The Chicago
    Manual of Style
    prescribes. I'm not operating under that style guide
    or any style guide, though. Grammar and style are two different things,
    and I'm looking for an answer of grammar, not style.


Another question that came up in my research that is also NOT A DUPLICATE is the following:



em dash followed by a comma



The above question is actually marked as a duplicate of the one listed further above, but it does have an answer, so I did look into it even though the question itself likewise does not address my complete question, neither specifically nor generally. The one answer also falls short by providing:




  • an answer whose only source links to a style guide—not a widely
    accepted style guide like MLA or APA, either, but Menlo College's
    style guide, some small college in California—rather than any grammar
    textbook, grammar source, or any statement it's grammar,
    not style, like by using words like "grammatically required,"
    particularly in lieu of words like "recommended";

  • an answer whose only source fails to elucidate this issue
    expressly—or even implicitly in the handful of examples it gives; and

  • an answer that itself fails to indicate whether or not a comma can
    properly follow an em dash, which is the poster's actual question and
    likely why that only answer provided has been voted down more than
    up, having a -1 score.


So that there's no confusion, regardless of the poor quality of the answer given to this other question, my question has a far broader scope than the question itself and so is not a duplicate of it.



Also NOT A DUPLICATE are all the various other questions I researched with possibly related titles, including but not limited to Combining m-dash and comma, Mixing em-dash and comma, Long dashes between sentences, and Punctuation following em dash and speech mark.







punctuation dashes em-dash






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 19 mins ago







Benjamin Harman

















asked Mar 29 at 19:44









Benjamin HarmanBenjamin Harman

5,55831740




5,55831740




put on hold as off-topic by Jason Bassford, tchrist 2 days ago



  • This question does not appear to be about English language and usage within the scope defined in the help center.

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.







put on hold as off-topic by Jason Bassford, tchrist 2 days ago



  • This question does not appear to be about English language and usage within the scope defined in the help center.

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  • 1





    Well, punctuation is not about grammar. It is a stylistic appurtenance to written communication. That said, the style these days is to avoid multiple kinds of punctuation in a row, except where it can't be helped, as in cases where—am I making sense here?—a parenthetical question is framed by dashes. In Jane Austen's day they had a different style, and just about everything seemed fair game to abut the em dash.

    – Robusto
    2 days ago











  • Parenthetical interjections with an exclamation point work as well.

    – Robusto
    2 days ago











  • I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it is unclear what you're asking when you require a judgement call on grammaticality about a matter that has nothing at all to do with grammar, which comprises the spoken language's syntax and its morphology alone and so can never be about the acceptability of various choices in encoding technologies.

    – tchrist
    2 days ago













  • Submitted for reopening. Explanation given at the top of the question. Explanation will be removed once reopened.

    – Benjamin Harman
    17 mins ago














  • 1





    Well, punctuation is not about grammar. It is a stylistic appurtenance to written communication. That said, the style these days is to avoid multiple kinds of punctuation in a row, except where it can't be helped, as in cases where—am I making sense here?—a parenthetical question is framed by dashes. In Jane Austen's day they had a different style, and just about everything seemed fair game to abut the em dash.

    – Robusto
    2 days ago











  • Parenthetical interjections with an exclamation point work as well.

    – Robusto
    2 days ago











  • I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it is unclear what you're asking when you require a judgement call on grammaticality about a matter that has nothing at all to do with grammar, which comprises the spoken language's syntax and its morphology alone and so can never be about the acceptability of various choices in encoding technologies.

    – tchrist
    2 days ago













  • Submitted for reopening. Explanation given at the top of the question. Explanation will be removed once reopened.

    – Benjamin Harman
    17 mins ago








1




1





Well, punctuation is not about grammar. It is a stylistic appurtenance to written communication. That said, the style these days is to avoid multiple kinds of punctuation in a row, except where it can't be helped, as in cases where—am I making sense here?—a parenthetical question is framed by dashes. In Jane Austen's day they had a different style, and just about everything seemed fair game to abut the em dash.

– Robusto
2 days ago





Well, punctuation is not about grammar. It is a stylistic appurtenance to written communication. That said, the style these days is to avoid multiple kinds of punctuation in a row, except where it can't be helped, as in cases where—am I making sense here?—a parenthetical question is framed by dashes. In Jane Austen's day they had a different style, and just about everything seemed fair game to abut the em dash.

– Robusto
2 days ago













Parenthetical interjections with an exclamation point work as well.

– Robusto
2 days ago





Parenthetical interjections with an exclamation point work as well.

– Robusto
2 days ago













I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it is unclear what you're asking when you require a judgement call on grammaticality about a matter that has nothing at all to do with grammar, which comprises the spoken language's syntax and its morphology alone and so can never be about the acceptability of various choices in encoding technologies.

– tchrist
2 days ago







I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it is unclear what you're asking when you require a judgement call on grammaticality about a matter that has nothing at all to do with grammar, which comprises the spoken language's syntax and its morphology alone and so can never be about the acceptability of various choices in encoding technologies.

– tchrist
2 days ago















Submitted for reopening. Explanation given at the top of the question. Explanation will be removed once reopened.

– Benjamin Harman
17 mins ago





Submitted for reopening. Explanation given at the top of the question. Explanation will be removed once reopened.

– Benjamin Harman
17 mins ago










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