Is “Night” based on the number 8?











up vote
47
down vote

favorite
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I have seen on Facebook, a post (in French) claiming that many words for the night are based on a n+respective number for the number 8. For example on this website,



Language      Number 8  night
français huit nuit
anglais eight night
allemand acht nacht
espagnol ocho noche
portugais oito noite
italien otto notte
néerlandais acht nacht
suédois aetta natta
roumain opt noapte
wallon ût nut
occitan uèch nuèch
catalan vuit nit
gascon ueit nueit
picard uit nuit
piedmontais eut neuit
espéranto ok nokto


The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity symbol rotated.





My first reaction was to dismiss it. But then, I've been thinking about it, and would really like to have reasons to dismiss it.



The infinity symbol dates from 1655 (according to Wikipedia)whereas the word nuit was already in use by 1170 (website in French). Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French). But unfortunately, my knowledge of Latin is by far too limited to investigate further on the Latin.



Actually, the last link mentions that for the author M. Ad. Regnier, studying the Sanskrit, it could be related to the word naked (German: nackt, Latin: nuda).



In English, (the ight deriving from eight sounds worse than some other examples), what I gather is that




Old English niht (West Saxon neaht, Anglian næht, neht) "night, darkness [...] from Proto-Germanic *nahts




which relate as well to nox (Latin), nuks (Old Greek) or naktam (Sanskrit). The same website also indicates that




according to Watkins, probably from a verbal root *neg- "to be dark, be night."




But, if the relation night -> infinity -> infinity symbol -> 8 -> night, sounds improbable, I cannot find definitive information on a possible relation between the number 8 and the night.



Can you help me get down to the bottom of that question?










share|improve this question




















  • 76




    I am a mathematician and have never seen N used as a symbol for infinity.
    – Nate Eldredge
    2 days ago






  • 90




    All languages in your list (excluding Esperanto) are etymologically related, and share a common ancestor language (Proto-Indoeuropean, PIE). If in PIE the word for "night" and "eight" were similar by accident so that the vowels are the same but the first word starts with a nasal, it wouldn't be surprising at all if languages descendent from PIE feature the same similarity between these words. I suspect that's the best answer that you'll get. A paper that explicitly shows that "night" and "eight" are phonologically similar in a selection of related languages is probably not very publishable.
    – Schmuddi
    2 days ago








  • 12




    Related: Linguistics.SE question
    – Oddthinking
    2 days ago






  • 11




    To sum up, hypothesis A: in each of these languages the word "Night" was independently derived from word "eight". Even in man-made Esperanto. Oh, and coincidentally in most of the languages where the word for number 8 does not resemble "O(K)T", the word for the dark period of the day bears little similarity to it. Hypothesis B: "night" and "eight" sounded similar in the ancestor of these languages, therefore they sound similar in modern languages. Looks like a job for Occam's razor.
    – IMil
    yesterday






  • 44




    @NateEldredge I bet someone thinks that aleph is a fancy N.
    – hobbs
    yesterday















up vote
47
down vote

favorite
4












I have seen on Facebook, a post (in French) claiming that many words for the night are based on a n+respective number for the number 8. For example on this website,



Language      Number 8  night
français huit nuit
anglais eight night
allemand acht nacht
espagnol ocho noche
portugais oito noite
italien otto notte
néerlandais acht nacht
suédois aetta natta
roumain opt noapte
wallon ût nut
occitan uèch nuèch
catalan vuit nit
gascon ueit nueit
picard uit nuit
piedmontais eut neuit
espéranto ok nokto


The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity symbol rotated.





My first reaction was to dismiss it. But then, I've been thinking about it, and would really like to have reasons to dismiss it.



The infinity symbol dates from 1655 (according to Wikipedia)whereas the word nuit was already in use by 1170 (website in French). Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French). But unfortunately, my knowledge of Latin is by far too limited to investigate further on the Latin.



Actually, the last link mentions that for the author M. Ad. Regnier, studying the Sanskrit, it could be related to the word naked (German: nackt, Latin: nuda).



In English, (the ight deriving from eight sounds worse than some other examples), what I gather is that




Old English niht (West Saxon neaht, Anglian næht, neht) "night, darkness [...] from Proto-Germanic *nahts




which relate as well to nox (Latin), nuks (Old Greek) or naktam (Sanskrit). The same website also indicates that




according to Watkins, probably from a verbal root *neg- "to be dark, be night."




But, if the relation night -> infinity -> infinity symbol -> 8 -> night, sounds improbable, I cannot find definitive information on a possible relation between the number 8 and the night.



Can you help me get down to the bottom of that question?










share|improve this question




















  • 76




    I am a mathematician and have never seen N used as a symbol for infinity.
    – Nate Eldredge
    2 days ago






  • 90




    All languages in your list (excluding Esperanto) are etymologically related, and share a common ancestor language (Proto-Indoeuropean, PIE). If in PIE the word for "night" and "eight" were similar by accident so that the vowels are the same but the first word starts with a nasal, it wouldn't be surprising at all if languages descendent from PIE feature the same similarity between these words. I suspect that's the best answer that you'll get. A paper that explicitly shows that "night" and "eight" are phonologically similar in a selection of related languages is probably not very publishable.
    – Schmuddi
    2 days ago








  • 12




    Related: Linguistics.SE question
    – Oddthinking
    2 days ago






  • 11




    To sum up, hypothesis A: in each of these languages the word "Night" was independently derived from word "eight". Even in man-made Esperanto. Oh, and coincidentally in most of the languages where the word for number 8 does not resemble "O(K)T", the word for the dark period of the day bears little similarity to it. Hypothesis B: "night" and "eight" sounded similar in the ancestor of these languages, therefore they sound similar in modern languages. Looks like a job for Occam's razor.
    – IMil
    yesterday






  • 44




    @NateEldredge I bet someone thinks that aleph is a fancy N.
    – hobbs
    yesterday













up vote
47
down vote

favorite
4









up vote
47
down vote

favorite
4






4





I have seen on Facebook, a post (in French) claiming that many words for the night are based on a n+respective number for the number 8. For example on this website,



Language      Number 8  night
français huit nuit
anglais eight night
allemand acht nacht
espagnol ocho noche
portugais oito noite
italien otto notte
néerlandais acht nacht
suédois aetta natta
roumain opt noapte
wallon ût nut
occitan uèch nuèch
catalan vuit nit
gascon ueit nueit
picard uit nuit
piedmontais eut neuit
espéranto ok nokto


The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity symbol rotated.





My first reaction was to dismiss it. But then, I've been thinking about it, and would really like to have reasons to dismiss it.



The infinity symbol dates from 1655 (according to Wikipedia)whereas the word nuit was already in use by 1170 (website in French). Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French). But unfortunately, my knowledge of Latin is by far too limited to investigate further on the Latin.



Actually, the last link mentions that for the author M. Ad. Regnier, studying the Sanskrit, it could be related to the word naked (German: nackt, Latin: nuda).



In English, (the ight deriving from eight sounds worse than some other examples), what I gather is that




Old English niht (West Saxon neaht, Anglian næht, neht) "night, darkness [...] from Proto-Germanic *nahts




which relate as well to nox (Latin), nuks (Old Greek) or naktam (Sanskrit). The same website also indicates that




according to Watkins, probably from a verbal root *neg- "to be dark, be night."




But, if the relation night -> infinity -> infinity symbol -> 8 -> night, sounds improbable, I cannot find definitive information on a possible relation between the number 8 and the night.



Can you help me get down to the bottom of that question?










share|improve this question















I have seen on Facebook, a post (in French) claiming that many words for the night are based on a n+respective number for the number 8. For example on this website,



Language      Number 8  night
français huit nuit
anglais eight night
allemand acht nacht
espagnol ocho noche
portugais oito noite
italien otto notte
néerlandais acht nacht
suédois aetta natta
roumain opt noapte
wallon ût nut
occitan uèch nuèch
catalan vuit nit
gascon ueit nueit
picard uit nuit
piedmontais eut neuit
espéranto ok nokto


The post goes even further, claiming that N is a symbol for infinity, and that 8 is the typical infinity symbol rotated.





My first reaction was to dismiss it. But then, I've been thinking about it, and would really like to have reasons to dismiss it.



The infinity symbol dates from 1655 (according to Wikipedia)whereas the word nuit was already in use by 1170 (website in French). Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French). But unfortunately, my knowledge of Latin is by far too limited to investigate further on the Latin.



Actually, the last link mentions that for the author M. Ad. Regnier, studying the Sanskrit, it could be related to the word naked (German: nackt, Latin: nuda).



In English, (the ight deriving from eight sounds worse than some other examples), what I gather is that




Old English niht (West Saxon neaht, Anglian næht, neht) "night, darkness [...] from Proto-Germanic *nahts




which relate as well to nox (Latin), nuks (Old Greek) or naktam (Sanskrit). The same website also indicates that




according to Watkins, probably from a verbal root *neg- "to be dark, be night."




But, if the relation night -> infinity -> infinity symbol -> 8 -> night, sounds improbable, I cannot find definitive information on a possible relation between the number 8 and the night.



Can you help me get down to the bottom of that question?







etymology






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share|improve this question













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edited yesterday









terdon

291213




291213










asked 2 days ago









bilbo_pingouin

385138




385138








  • 76




    I am a mathematician and have never seen N used as a symbol for infinity.
    – Nate Eldredge
    2 days ago






  • 90




    All languages in your list (excluding Esperanto) are etymologically related, and share a common ancestor language (Proto-Indoeuropean, PIE). If in PIE the word for "night" and "eight" were similar by accident so that the vowels are the same but the first word starts with a nasal, it wouldn't be surprising at all if languages descendent from PIE feature the same similarity between these words. I suspect that's the best answer that you'll get. A paper that explicitly shows that "night" and "eight" are phonologically similar in a selection of related languages is probably not very publishable.
    – Schmuddi
    2 days ago








  • 12




    Related: Linguistics.SE question
    – Oddthinking
    2 days ago






  • 11




    To sum up, hypothesis A: in each of these languages the word "Night" was independently derived from word "eight". Even in man-made Esperanto. Oh, and coincidentally in most of the languages where the word for number 8 does not resemble "O(K)T", the word for the dark period of the day bears little similarity to it. Hypothesis B: "night" and "eight" sounded similar in the ancestor of these languages, therefore they sound similar in modern languages. Looks like a job for Occam's razor.
    – IMil
    yesterday






  • 44




    @NateEldredge I bet someone thinks that aleph is a fancy N.
    – hobbs
    yesterday














  • 76




    I am a mathematician and have never seen N used as a symbol for infinity.
    – Nate Eldredge
    2 days ago






  • 90




    All languages in your list (excluding Esperanto) are etymologically related, and share a common ancestor language (Proto-Indoeuropean, PIE). If in PIE the word for "night" and "eight" were similar by accident so that the vowels are the same but the first word starts with a nasal, it wouldn't be surprising at all if languages descendent from PIE feature the same similarity between these words. I suspect that's the best answer that you'll get. A paper that explicitly shows that "night" and "eight" are phonologically similar in a selection of related languages is probably not very publishable.
    – Schmuddi
    2 days ago








  • 12




    Related: Linguistics.SE question
    – Oddthinking
    2 days ago






  • 11




    To sum up, hypothesis A: in each of these languages the word "Night" was independently derived from word "eight". Even in man-made Esperanto. Oh, and coincidentally in most of the languages where the word for number 8 does not resemble "O(K)T", the word for the dark period of the day bears little similarity to it. Hypothesis B: "night" and "eight" sounded similar in the ancestor of these languages, therefore they sound similar in modern languages. Looks like a job for Occam's razor.
    – IMil
    yesterday






  • 44




    @NateEldredge I bet someone thinks that aleph is a fancy N.
    – hobbs
    yesterday








76




76




I am a mathematician and have never seen N used as a symbol for infinity.
– Nate Eldredge
2 days ago




I am a mathematician and have never seen N used as a symbol for infinity.
– Nate Eldredge
2 days ago




90




90




All languages in your list (excluding Esperanto) are etymologically related, and share a common ancestor language (Proto-Indoeuropean, PIE). If in PIE the word for "night" and "eight" were similar by accident so that the vowels are the same but the first word starts with a nasal, it wouldn't be surprising at all if languages descendent from PIE feature the same similarity between these words. I suspect that's the best answer that you'll get. A paper that explicitly shows that "night" and "eight" are phonologically similar in a selection of related languages is probably not very publishable.
– Schmuddi
2 days ago






All languages in your list (excluding Esperanto) are etymologically related, and share a common ancestor language (Proto-Indoeuropean, PIE). If in PIE the word for "night" and "eight" were similar by accident so that the vowels are the same but the first word starts with a nasal, it wouldn't be surprising at all if languages descendent from PIE feature the same similarity between these words. I suspect that's the best answer that you'll get. A paper that explicitly shows that "night" and "eight" are phonologically similar in a selection of related languages is probably not very publishable.
– Schmuddi
2 days ago






12




12




Related: Linguistics.SE question
– Oddthinking
2 days ago




Related: Linguistics.SE question
– Oddthinking
2 days ago




11




11




To sum up, hypothesis A: in each of these languages the word "Night" was independently derived from word "eight". Even in man-made Esperanto. Oh, and coincidentally in most of the languages where the word for number 8 does not resemble "O(K)T", the word for the dark period of the day bears little similarity to it. Hypothesis B: "night" and "eight" sounded similar in the ancestor of these languages, therefore they sound similar in modern languages. Looks like a job for Occam's razor.
– IMil
yesterday




To sum up, hypothesis A: in each of these languages the word "Night" was independently derived from word "eight". Even in man-made Esperanto. Oh, and coincidentally in most of the languages where the word for number 8 does not resemble "O(K)T", the word for the dark period of the day bears little similarity to it. Hypothesis B: "night" and "eight" sounded similar in the ancestor of these languages, therefore they sound similar in modern languages. Looks like a job for Occam's razor.
– IMil
yesterday




44




44




@NateEldredge I bet someone thinks that aleph is a fancy N.
– hobbs
yesterday




@NateEldredge I bet someone thinks that aleph is a fancy N.
– hobbs
yesterday










6 Answers
6






active

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up vote
57
down vote













No, they are unrelated.



Some Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) reconstructions from Wiktionary:




  • "eight": "oḱtṓw" (claimed to be a dual of "four fingers")

  • "night": "nókʷts" (possibly from "bare, naked")


As @Schmuddi mentioned in a comment above, it looks just like a coincidence (slightly similar proto-language words). The rest looks like an urban legend.






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bobbib is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










  • 3




    Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
    – Oddthinking
    2 days ago






  • 1




    Hi @Oddthinking! Oh, I'm sorry for that quick-and-dirty answer; it just had a nice comparative list, so I thought it would be helpful. Anyway, we also can edit Wiktionary to add respectable links there :-)
    – bobbib
    2 days ago






  • 7




    We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
    – Oddthinking
    yesterday






  • 6




    @Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    yesterday






  • 3




    @JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
    – Oddthinking
    23 hours ago


















up vote
30
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In English "eight" and "night" came from different words, "ehte" and "niht" respectively, which have both undergone a common substitution of -gh- for a hard "h", which was a Middle English scribal habit.



In French, "huit" came from "uit" when an "h" was added to avoid confusion with "vit". As for "nuit", it's a transformation of old French "nuict" derived from latin "noctem", which is an inclination of "nox".



The etymological link can be tracked further down, but the two words remain distinct, albeit similar.



So at least for English and French, the similarity between these two words is not due to a common root, but rather to similar ancestor words, and in some cases common transformations which contributed to the similarity of modern forms. I don't know other languages in your list, but they all seem to be either Latin or Germanic, so they likely share their etymological transformation with French and English respectively.






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    up vote
    13
    down vote













    To pile on the answers debunking a particular language:
    The list misspells both Swedish words to make them look more similar than they are. "Åtta" (number eight) is misspelled as "aetta" and "natt" (night) is misspelled as "natta".



    "Åtta" /ˈɔtːa/ and "natt" /nat:/ are not very alike as I'm sure most will agree.



    Count this as another vote for occam's razor and this being an urban legend.



    (Source: My Swedish dictionary. Wiktionary unfortunately is short on IPA for these but consider it "common knowledge"...)






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    Jolta is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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    Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










    • 4




      I disagree that åtta and natt are not alike, but my opinion isn't important - and neither is yours. Please provide some references to support your claims about etymology. [I don't think there is a need to cite the common modern Swedish words, but this is about etymology, not the current pronunication and spelling.]
      – Oddthinking
      22 hours ago






    • 1




      lol. they are completely different have nothing in common except for having two t's in them.
      – dan-klasson
      7 hours ago


















    up vote
    8
    down vote













    Basically, what the poster has noted is that something like the Indo-European language family exists, and they're only looking in Western to Central Europe. For extra credit they could have spotted Basque, Finnish and Hungarian as outliers [GoogleTranslate gives me zortzi/gauean, kahdeksan/yö-, nyolc/éjszaka respectively for the pairs].



    Basically language evolution isn't chaotic: If you start from two similar words in a language, then you have a better than good chance they are similar in a descended language as well, especially for old everyday words. Just like irregular verbs have a tendency of becoming more regular (within a language) over the generations, a population changes all its words in a related fashion when it's inadvertently developing a new language: Like Castilian Spanish not using V, any imported word with a V gets similarly changed (if it stays in use); most Spanish words originally starting on "SP" will now start on "ESP" (Spagna -> España), and "disport" remained "deportive" where the rest of Europe shortened to "sport".



    So if you group all Latin descendants together (I looked at Romanian as it's often similar to Italian to my ears, yet I see why it wasn't included in the list!!), there's not much left.



    Then you look at Latin's direct ancestor (and not a reconstructed indo-european root language), ancient Greek... There we have νῠ́ξ ("nux") that clearly caused Latin nox (and modern Greek "Nýchta", which I named my white cat) and ὀκτώ ("okto") that are practically unchanged in Latin and modern Greek, and I can only shrug my shoulders at the claim.



    I have to say they were lucky with English and Germanic here: Often the word is very different in Germanic and Frankish roots, and it's a 50-50 coin toss which of the two will get used (German Kirche, Dutch Kerk and Scots Kirk go with English Church; where Latin Ecclesia gives French Église, Spanish Iglesia, Italian Chiesa). Or in verbs, where English often resembles more the perfect past than French does: e.g., Latin Neglegere (perfect: Neglectus) --> French Négliger and English To neglect.



    [EDIT: I have not sourced as earlier comments pointed out that Wiktionary sources are discouraged/distrusted here.. It's already rather long and the previous posts have already debunked the argument, so it adds further background that is for the Skeptic to check!! You wouldn't be a skeptic if you believed my argument because of my personally-chosen and possibly -edited link? (Too meta?)]






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    Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










    • 4




      Ancient Greek is not "Latin's direct ancestor". The question did mention Romanian: "roumain opt noapte"
      – sumelic
      yesterday








    • 1




      As sumelic says, the Greek forms are not ancestral to the Latin form. They all derive from the same proto-form. Also, yö- doesn’t need the hyphen, because it’s not an abstract root: the normal Finnish word for ‘evening/night’ is just . The Hungarian equivalent, and cognate, is just éj, whereas éjszaka is more like ‘(at) nighttime’.
      – Janus Bahs Jacquet
      yesterday






    • 2




      Basque, Finnish, and Hungarian aren't Indo-European languages. Finnish and Hungarian are Uralic languages, while Basque is a language isolate.
      – Mark
      yesterday










    • Please provide some references to support your claims.
      – Oddthinking
      22 hours ago






    • 2




      @Mark I think that user3445853 knows this, and that it’s actually the whole point they are trying to make in that sentence: that had the OP included some non-IE languages, they would have spotted that they do not obey the pattern.
      – Emil Jeřábek
      9 hours ago


















    up vote
    0
    down vote













    No, night and day come from old Norse.



    https://glosbe.com/en/non/night




    nátt { noun feminine }
    The period between sunset and sunrise, when a location faces far away from the sun, thus when the sky is dark.




    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%B3tt




    In Norse mythology, Nótt (Old Norse "night"[1]) is night personified, grandmother of Thor.




    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagr




    In Norse mythology, Dagr (Old Norse "day"[1]) is day personified.




    Old Norse blended with early Germanic languages, from which English is derived.






    share|improve this answer




























      up vote
      -1
      down vote













      Roberts French dictionary says that nuit (night) comes from the Latin noctis meaning nocturnal (vient du latin nox, noctis → noctambule, nocturne).






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      • 1




        Maybe I am. But n+octo (8 in Latin) falls also pretty close to noctis.
        – bilbo_pingouin
        2 days ago








      • 1




        Welcome to Skeptics! Can you please give a more precise reference? What dictionary is that, and which edition?
        – Oddthinking
        2 days ago






      • 27




        I think I'm missing something. Doesn't this answer just explain that the French word for "night" is related to a Latin root that also refers to "night" (which is not surprising at all given that French is a language that developed from Latin)?
        – Schmuddi
        2 days ago






      • 6




        In the body of the question it says "Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French)." This doesn't provide anything that wasn't already mentioned in the question.
        – JMac
        yesterday



















      6 Answers
      6






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      6 Answers
      6






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      57
      down vote













      No, they are unrelated.



      Some Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) reconstructions from Wiktionary:




      • "eight": "oḱtṓw" (claimed to be a dual of "four fingers")

      • "night": "nókʷts" (possibly from "bare, naked")


      As @Schmuddi mentioned in a comment above, it looks just like a coincidence (slightly similar proto-language words). The rest looks like an urban legend.






      share|improve this answer










      New contributor




      bobbib is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










      • 3




        Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
        – Oddthinking
        2 days ago






      • 1




        Hi @Oddthinking! Oh, I'm sorry for that quick-and-dirty answer; it just had a nice comparative list, so I thought it would be helpful. Anyway, we also can edit Wiktionary to add respectable links there :-)
        – bobbib
        2 days ago






      • 7




        We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
        – Oddthinking
        yesterday






      • 6




        @Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
        – Janus Bahs Jacquet
        yesterday






      • 3




        @JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
        – Oddthinking
        23 hours ago















      up vote
      57
      down vote













      No, they are unrelated.



      Some Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) reconstructions from Wiktionary:




      • "eight": "oḱtṓw" (claimed to be a dual of "four fingers")

      • "night": "nókʷts" (possibly from "bare, naked")


      As @Schmuddi mentioned in a comment above, it looks just like a coincidence (slightly similar proto-language words). The rest looks like an urban legend.






      share|improve this answer










      New contributor




      bobbib is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.








      Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










      • 3




        Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
        – Oddthinking
        2 days ago






      • 1




        Hi @Oddthinking! Oh, I'm sorry for that quick-and-dirty answer; it just had a nice comparative list, so I thought it would be helpful. Anyway, we also can edit Wiktionary to add respectable links there :-)
        – bobbib
        2 days ago






      • 7




        We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
        – Oddthinking
        yesterday






      • 6




        @Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
        – Janus Bahs Jacquet
        yesterday






      • 3




        @JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
        – Oddthinking
        23 hours ago













      up vote
      57
      down vote










      up vote
      57
      down vote









      No, they are unrelated.



      Some Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) reconstructions from Wiktionary:




      • "eight": "oḱtṓw" (claimed to be a dual of "four fingers")

      • "night": "nókʷts" (possibly from "bare, naked")


      As @Schmuddi mentioned in a comment above, it looks just like a coincidence (slightly similar proto-language words). The rest looks like an urban legend.






      share|improve this answer










      New contributor




      bobbib is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      No, they are unrelated.



      Some Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) reconstructions from Wiktionary:




      • "eight": "oḱtṓw" (claimed to be a dual of "four fingers")

      • "night": "nókʷts" (possibly from "bare, naked")


      As @Schmuddi mentioned in a comment above, it looks just like a coincidence (slightly similar proto-language words). The rest looks like an urban legend.







      share|improve this answer










      New contributor




      bobbib is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited 2 days ago









      Oddthinking

      98.3k30408514




      98.3k30408514






      New contributor




      bobbib is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      answered 2 days ago









      bobbib

      44114




      44114




      New contributor




      bobbib is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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      New contributor





      bobbib is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      bobbib is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.



      Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.




      Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.









      • 3




        Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
        – Oddthinking
        2 days ago






      • 1




        Hi @Oddthinking! Oh, I'm sorry for that quick-and-dirty answer; it just had a nice comparative list, so I thought it would be helpful. Anyway, we also can edit Wiktionary to add respectable links there :-)
        – bobbib
        2 days ago






      • 7




        We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
        – Oddthinking
        yesterday






      • 6




        @Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
        – Janus Bahs Jacquet
        yesterday






      • 3




        @JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
        – Oddthinking
        23 hours ago














      • 3




        Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
        – Oddthinking
        2 days ago






      • 1




        Hi @Oddthinking! Oh, I'm sorry for that quick-and-dirty answer; it just had a nice comparative list, so I thought it would be helpful. Anyway, we also can edit Wiktionary to add respectable links there :-)
        – bobbib
        2 days ago






      • 7




        We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
        – Oddthinking
        yesterday






      • 6




        @Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
        – Janus Bahs Jacquet
        yesterday






      • 3




        @JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
        – Oddthinking
        23 hours ago








      3




      3




      Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
      – Oddthinking
      2 days ago




      Welcome to Skeptics! Wiktionary doesn't appear to have any references for the comparative analysis that lead to these conclusions. Is there any reason we should accept these reconstructions on Wiktionary over the claims in the original post?
      – Oddthinking
      2 days ago




      1




      1




      Hi @Oddthinking! Oh, I'm sorry for that quick-and-dirty answer; it just had a nice comparative list, so I thought it would be helpful. Anyway, we also can edit Wiktionary to add respectable links there :-)
      – bobbib
      2 days ago




      Hi @Oddthinking! Oh, I'm sorry for that quick-and-dirty answer; it just had a nice comparative list, so I thought it would be helpful. Anyway, we also can edit Wiktionary to add respectable links there :-)
      – bobbib
      2 days ago




      7




      7




      We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
      – Oddthinking
      yesterday




      We generally don't accept wikis as good references for this reason. I would normally recommend following the links the wiki site gives to get direct references, but that isn't possble here.
      – Oddthinking
      yesterday




      6




      6




      @Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
      – Janus Bahs Jacquet
      yesterday




      @Oddthinking There are several etymological dictionaries of Indo-European languages that confirm that these two reconstructions are the generally accepted ones (with slight variations – I would reconstruct ‘eight’ as *óḱtōu̯ with initial stress, for example), but unfortunately none of them are easily available online. Many of them are referenced on the *nókʷts page on Wikipedia, but they exist in paper form only.
      – Janus Bahs Jacquet
      yesterday




      3




      3




      @JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
      – Oddthinking
      23 hours ago




      @JanusBahsJacquet: Feel free to quote from (paper) books you have access to.
      – Oddthinking
      23 hours ago










      up vote
      30
      down vote













      In English "eight" and "night" came from different words, "ehte" and "niht" respectively, which have both undergone a common substitution of -gh- for a hard "h", which was a Middle English scribal habit.



      In French, "huit" came from "uit" when an "h" was added to avoid confusion with "vit". As for "nuit", it's a transformation of old French "nuict" derived from latin "noctem", which is an inclination of "nox".



      The etymological link can be tracked further down, but the two words remain distinct, albeit similar.



      So at least for English and French, the similarity between these two words is not due to a common root, but rather to similar ancestor words, and in some cases common transformations which contributed to the similarity of modern forms. I don't know other languages in your list, but they all seem to be either Latin or Germanic, so they likely share their etymological transformation with French and English respectively.






      share|improve this answer



























        up vote
        30
        down vote













        In English "eight" and "night" came from different words, "ehte" and "niht" respectively, which have both undergone a common substitution of -gh- for a hard "h", which was a Middle English scribal habit.



        In French, "huit" came from "uit" when an "h" was added to avoid confusion with "vit". As for "nuit", it's a transformation of old French "nuict" derived from latin "noctem", which is an inclination of "nox".



        The etymological link can be tracked further down, but the two words remain distinct, albeit similar.



        So at least for English and French, the similarity between these two words is not due to a common root, but rather to similar ancestor words, and in some cases common transformations which contributed to the similarity of modern forms. I don't know other languages in your list, but they all seem to be either Latin or Germanic, so they likely share their etymological transformation with French and English respectively.






        share|improve this answer

























          up vote
          30
          down vote










          up vote
          30
          down vote









          In English "eight" and "night" came from different words, "ehte" and "niht" respectively, which have both undergone a common substitution of -gh- for a hard "h", which was a Middle English scribal habit.



          In French, "huit" came from "uit" when an "h" was added to avoid confusion with "vit". As for "nuit", it's a transformation of old French "nuict" derived from latin "noctem", which is an inclination of "nox".



          The etymological link can be tracked further down, but the two words remain distinct, albeit similar.



          So at least for English and French, the similarity between these two words is not due to a common root, but rather to similar ancestor words, and in some cases common transformations which contributed to the similarity of modern forms. I don't know other languages in your list, but they all seem to be either Latin or Germanic, so they likely share their etymological transformation with French and English respectively.






          share|improve this answer














          In English "eight" and "night" came from different words, "ehte" and "niht" respectively, which have both undergone a common substitution of -gh- for a hard "h", which was a Middle English scribal habit.



          In French, "huit" came from "uit" when an "h" was added to avoid confusion with "vit". As for "nuit", it's a transformation of old French "nuict" derived from latin "noctem", which is an inclination of "nox".



          The etymological link can be tracked further down, but the two words remain distinct, albeit similar.



          So at least for English and French, the similarity between these two words is not due to a common root, but rather to similar ancestor words, and in some cases common transformations which contributed to the similarity of modern forms. I don't know other languages in your list, but they all seem to be either Latin or Germanic, so they likely share their etymological transformation with French and English respectively.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited yesterday

























          answered yesterday









          Dmitry Grigoryev

          715414




          715414






















              up vote
              13
              down vote













              To pile on the answers debunking a particular language:
              The list misspells both Swedish words to make them look more similar than they are. "Åtta" (number eight) is misspelled as "aetta" and "natt" (night) is misspelled as "natta".



              "Åtta" /ˈɔtːa/ and "natt" /nat:/ are not very alike as I'm sure most will agree.



              Count this as another vote for occam's razor and this being an urban legend.



              (Source: My Swedish dictionary. Wiktionary unfortunately is short on IPA for these but consider it "common knowledge"...)






              share|improve this answer










              New contributor




              Jolta is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.








              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










              • 4




                I disagree that åtta and natt are not alike, but my opinion isn't important - and neither is yours. Please provide some references to support your claims about etymology. [I don't think there is a need to cite the common modern Swedish words, but this is about etymology, not the current pronunication and spelling.]
                – Oddthinking
                22 hours ago






              • 1




                lol. they are completely different have nothing in common except for having two t's in them.
                – dan-klasson
                7 hours ago















              up vote
              13
              down vote













              To pile on the answers debunking a particular language:
              The list misspells both Swedish words to make them look more similar than they are. "Åtta" (number eight) is misspelled as "aetta" and "natt" (night) is misspelled as "natta".



              "Åtta" /ˈɔtːa/ and "natt" /nat:/ are not very alike as I'm sure most will agree.



              Count this as another vote for occam's razor and this being an urban legend.



              (Source: My Swedish dictionary. Wiktionary unfortunately is short on IPA for these but consider it "common knowledge"...)






              share|improve this answer










              New contributor




              Jolta is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.








              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










              • 4




                I disagree that åtta and natt are not alike, but my opinion isn't important - and neither is yours. Please provide some references to support your claims about etymology. [I don't think there is a need to cite the common modern Swedish words, but this is about etymology, not the current pronunication and spelling.]
                – Oddthinking
                22 hours ago






              • 1




                lol. they are completely different have nothing in common except for having two t's in them.
                – dan-klasson
                7 hours ago













              up vote
              13
              down vote










              up vote
              13
              down vote









              To pile on the answers debunking a particular language:
              The list misspells both Swedish words to make them look more similar than they are. "Åtta" (number eight) is misspelled as "aetta" and "natt" (night) is misspelled as "natta".



              "Åtta" /ˈɔtːa/ and "natt" /nat:/ are not very alike as I'm sure most will agree.



              Count this as another vote for occam's razor and this being an urban legend.



              (Source: My Swedish dictionary. Wiktionary unfortunately is short on IPA for these but consider it "common knowledge"...)






              share|improve this answer










              New contributor




              Jolta is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.









              To pile on the answers debunking a particular language:
              The list misspells both Swedish words to make them look more similar than they are. "Åtta" (number eight) is misspelled as "aetta" and "natt" (night) is misspelled as "natta".



              "Åtta" /ˈɔtːa/ and "natt" /nat:/ are not very alike as I'm sure most will agree.



              Count this as another vote for occam's razor and this being an urban legend.



              (Source: My Swedish dictionary. Wiktionary unfortunately is short on IPA for these but consider it "common knowledge"...)







              share|improve this answer










              New contributor




              Jolta is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.









              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited yesterday





















              New contributor




              Jolta is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
              Check out our Code of Conduct.









              answered yesterday









              Jolta

              2394




              2394




              New contributor




              Jolta is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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              New contributor





              Jolta is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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              Jolta is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.




              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.









              • 4




                I disagree that åtta and natt are not alike, but my opinion isn't important - and neither is yours. Please provide some references to support your claims about etymology. [I don't think there is a need to cite the common modern Swedish words, but this is about etymology, not the current pronunication and spelling.]
                – Oddthinking
                22 hours ago






              • 1




                lol. they are completely different have nothing in common except for having two t's in them.
                – dan-klasson
                7 hours ago














              • 4




                I disagree that åtta and natt are not alike, but my opinion isn't important - and neither is yours. Please provide some references to support your claims about etymology. [I don't think there is a need to cite the common modern Swedish words, but this is about etymology, not the current pronunication and spelling.]
                – Oddthinking
                22 hours ago






              • 1




                lol. they are completely different have nothing in common except for having two t's in them.
                – dan-klasson
                7 hours ago








              4




              4




              I disagree that åtta and natt are not alike, but my opinion isn't important - and neither is yours. Please provide some references to support your claims about etymology. [I don't think there is a need to cite the common modern Swedish words, but this is about etymology, not the current pronunication and spelling.]
              – Oddthinking
              22 hours ago




              I disagree that åtta and natt are not alike, but my opinion isn't important - and neither is yours. Please provide some references to support your claims about etymology. [I don't think there is a need to cite the common modern Swedish words, but this is about etymology, not the current pronunication and spelling.]
              – Oddthinking
              22 hours ago




              1




              1




              lol. they are completely different have nothing in common except for having two t's in them.
              – dan-klasson
              7 hours ago




              lol. they are completely different have nothing in common except for having two t's in them.
              – dan-klasson
              7 hours ago










              up vote
              8
              down vote













              Basically, what the poster has noted is that something like the Indo-European language family exists, and they're only looking in Western to Central Europe. For extra credit they could have spotted Basque, Finnish and Hungarian as outliers [GoogleTranslate gives me zortzi/gauean, kahdeksan/yö-, nyolc/éjszaka respectively for the pairs].



              Basically language evolution isn't chaotic: If you start from two similar words in a language, then you have a better than good chance they are similar in a descended language as well, especially for old everyday words. Just like irregular verbs have a tendency of becoming more regular (within a language) over the generations, a population changes all its words in a related fashion when it's inadvertently developing a new language: Like Castilian Spanish not using V, any imported word with a V gets similarly changed (if it stays in use); most Spanish words originally starting on "SP" will now start on "ESP" (Spagna -> España), and "disport" remained "deportive" where the rest of Europe shortened to "sport".



              So if you group all Latin descendants together (I looked at Romanian as it's often similar to Italian to my ears, yet I see why it wasn't included in the list!!), there's not much left.



              Then you look at Latin's direct ancestor (and not a reconstructed indo-european root language), ancient Greek... There we have νῠ́ξ ("nux") that clearly caused Latin nox (and modern Greek "Nýchta", which I named my white cat) and ὀκτώ ("okto") that are practically unchanged in Latin and modern Greek, and I can only shrug my shoulders at the claim.



              I have to say they were lucky with English and Germanic here: Often the word is very different in Germanic and Frankish roots, and it's a 50-50 coin toss which of the two will get used (German Kirche, Dutch Kerk and Scots Kirk go with English Church; where Latin Ecclesia gives French Église, Spanish Iglesia, Italian Chiesa). Or in verbs, where English often resembles more the perfect past than French does: e.g., Latin Neglegere (perfect: Neglectus) --> French Négliger and English To neglect.



              [EDIT: I have not sourced as earlier comments pointed out that Wiktionary sources are discouraged/distrusted here.. It's already rather long and the previous posts have already debunked the argument, so it adds further background that is for the Skeptic to check!! You wouldn't be a skeptic if you believed my argument because of my personally-chosen and possibly -edited link? (Too meta?)]






              share|improve this answer













              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










              • 4




                Ancient Greek is not "Latin's direct ancestor". The question did mention Romanian: "roumain opt noapte"
                – sumelic
                yesterday








              • 1




                As sumelic says, the Greek forms are not ancestral to the Latin form. They all derive from the same proto-form. Also, yö- doesn’t need the hyphen, because it’s not an abstract root: the normal Finnish word for ‘evening/night’ is just . The Hungarian equivalent, and cognate, is just éj, whereas éjszaka is more like ‘(at) nighttime’.
                – Janus Bahs Jacquet
                yesterday






              • 2




                Basque, Finnish, and Hungarian aren't Indo-European languages. Finnish and Hungarian are Uralic languages, while Basque is a language isolate.
                – Mark
                yesterday










              • Please provide some references to support your claims.
                – Oddthinking
                22 hours ago






              • 2




                @Mark I think that user3445853 knows this, and that it’s actually the whole point they are trying to make in that sentence: that had the OP included some non-IE languages, they would have spotted that they do not obey the pattern.
                – Emil Jeřábek
                9 hours ago















              up vote
              8
              down vote













              Basically, what the poster has noted is that something like the Indo-European language family exists, and they're only looking in Western to Central Europe. For extra credit they could have spotted Basque, Finnish and Hungarian as outliers [GoogleTranslate gives me zortzi/gauean, kahdeksan/yö-, nyolc/éjszaka respectively for the pairs].



              Basically language evolution isn't chaotic: If you start from two similar words in a language, then you have a better than good chance they are similar in a descended language as well, especially for old everyday words. Just like irregular verbs have a tendency of becoming more regular (within a language) over the generations, a population changes all its words in a related fashion when it's inadvertently developing a new language: Like Castilian Spanish not using V, any imported word with a V gets similarly changed (if it stays in use); most Spanish words originally starting on "SP" will now start on "ESP" (Spagna -> España), and "disport" remained "deportive" where the rest of Europe shortened to "sport".



              So if you group all Latin descendants together (I looked at Romanian as it's often similar to Italian to my ears, yet I see why it wasn't included in the list!!), there's not much left.



              Then you look at Latin's direct ancestor (and not a reconstructed indo-european root language), ancient Greek... There we have νῠ́ξ ("nux") that clearly caused Latin nox (and modern Greek "Nýchta", which I named my white cat) and ὀκτώ ("okto") that are practically unchanged in Latin and modern Greek, and I can only shrug my shoulders at the claim.



              I have to say they were lucky with English and Germanic here: Often the word is very different in Germanic and Frankish roots, and it's a 50-50 coin toss which of the two will get used (German Kirche, Dutch Kerk and Scots Kirk go with English Church; where Latin Ecclesia gives French Église, Spanish Iglesia, Italian Chiesa). Or in verbs, where English often resembles more the perfect past than French does: e.g., Latin Neglegere (perfect: Neglectus) --> French Négliger and English To neglect.



              [EDIT: I have not sourced as earlier comments pointed out that Wiktionary sources are discouraged/distrusted here.. It's already rather long and the previous posts have already debunked the argument, so it adds further background that is for the Skeptic to check!! You wouldn't be a skeptic if you believed my argument because of my personally-chosen and possibly -edited link? (Too meta?)]






              share|improve this answer













              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










              • 4




                Ancient Greek is not "Latin's direct ancestor". The question did mention Romanian: "roumain opt noapte"
                – sumelic
                yesterday








              • 1




                As sumelic says, the Greek forms are not ancestral to the Latin form. They all derive from the same proto-form. Also, yö- doesn’t need the hyphen, because it’s not an abstract root: the normal Finnish word for ‘evening/night’ is just . The Hungarian equivalent, and cognate, is just éj, whereas éjszaka is more like ‘(at) nighttime’.
                – Janus Bahs Jacquet
                yesterday






              • 2




                Basque, Finnish, and Hungarian aren't Indo-European languages. Finnish and Hungarian are Uralic languages, while Basque is a language isolate.
                – Mark
                yesterday










              • Please provide some references to support your claims.
                – Oddthinking
                22 hours ago






              • 2




                @Mark I think that user3445853 knows this, and that it’s actually the whole point they are trying to make in that sentence: that had the OP included some non-IE languages, they would have spotted that they do not obey the pattern.
                – Emil Jeřábek
                9 hours ago













              up vote
              8
              down vote










              up vote
              8
              down vote









              Basically, what the poster has noted is that something like the Indo-European language family exists, and they're only looking in Western to Central Europe. For extra credit they could have spotted Basque, Finnish and Hungarian as outliers [GoogleTranslate gives me zortzi/gauean, kahdeksan/yö-, nyolc/éjszaka respectively for the pairs].



              Basically language evolution isn't chaotic: If you start from two similar words in a language, then you have a better than good chance they are similar in a descended language as well, especially for old everyday words. Just like irregular verbs have a tendency of becoming more regular (within a language) over the generations, a population changes all its words in a related fashion when it's inadvertently developing a new language: Like Castilian Spanish not using V, any imported word with a V gets similarly changed (if it stays in use); most Spanish words originally starting on "SP" will now start on "ESP" (Spagna -> España), and "disport" remained "deportive" where the rest of Europe shortened to "sport".



              So if you group all Latin descendants together (I looked at Romanian as it's often similar to Italian to my ears, yet I see why it wasn't included in the list!!), there's not much left.



              Then you look at Latin's direct ancestor (and not a reconstructed indo-european root language), ancient Greek... There we have νῠ́ξ ("nux") that clearly caused Latin nox (and modern Greek "Nýchta", which I named my white cat) and ὀκτώ ("okto") that are practically unchanged in Latin and modern Greek, and I can only shrug my shoulders at the claim.



              I have to say they were lucky with English and Germanic here: Often the word is very different in Germanic and Frankish roots, and it's a 50-50 coin toss which of the two will get used (German Kirche, Dutch Kerk and Scots Kirk go with English Church; where Latin Ecclesia gives French Église, Spanish Iglesia, Italian Chiesa). Or in verbs, where English often resembles more the perfect past than French does: e.g., Latin Neglegere (perfect: Neglectus) --> French Négliger and English To neglect.



              [EDIT: I have not sourced as earlier comments pointed out that Wiktionary sources are discouraged/distrusted here.. It's already rather long and the previous posts have already debunked the argument, so it adds further background that is for the Skeptic to check!! You wouldn't be a skeptic if you believed my argument because of my personally-chosen and possibly -edited link? (Too meta?)]






              share|improve this answer














              Basically, what the poster has noted is that something like the Indo-European language family exists, and they're only looking in Western to Central Europe. For extra credit they could have spotted Basque, Finnish and Hungarian as outliers [GoogleTranslate gives me zortzi/gauean, kahdeksan/yö-, nyolc/éjszaka respectively for the pairs].



              Basically language evolution isn't chaotic: If you start from two similar words in a language, then you have a better than good chance they are similar in a descended language as well, especially for old everyday words. Just like irregular verbs have a tendency of becoming more regular (within a language) over the generations, a population changes all its words in a related fashion when it's inadvertently developing a new language: Like Castilian Spanish not using V, any imported word with a V gets similarly changed (if it stays in use); most Spanish words originally starting on "SP" will now start on "ESP" (Spagna -> España), and "disport" remained "deportive" where the rest of Europe shortened to "sport".



              So if you group all Latin descendants together (I looked at Romanian as it's often similar to Italian to my ears, yet I see why it wasn't included in the list!!), there's not much left.



              Then you look at Latin's direct ancestor (and not a reconstructed indo-european root language), ancient Greek... There we have νῠ́ξ ("nux") that clearly caused Latin nox (and modern Greek "Nýchta", which I named my white cat) and ὀκτώ ("okto") that are practically unchanged in Latin and modern Greek, and I can only shrug my shoulders at the claim.



              I have to say they were lucky with English and Germanic here: Often the word is very different in Germanic and Frankish roots, and it's a 50-50 coin toss which of the two will get used (German Kirche, Dutch Kerk and Scots Kirk go with English Church; where Latin Ecclesia gives French Église, Spanish Iglesia, Italian Chiesa). Or in verbs, where English often resembles more the perfect past than French does: e.g., Latin Neglegere (perfect: Neglectus) --> French Négliger and English To neglect.



              [EDIT: I have not sourced as earlier comments pointed out that Wiktionary sources are discouraged/distrusted here.. It's already rather long and the previous posts have already debunked the argument, so it adds further background that is for the Skeptic to check!! You wouldn't be a skeptic if you believed my argument because of my personally-chosen and possibly -edited link? (Too meta?)]







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited 10 hours ago

























              answered yesterday









              user3445853

              1993




              1993



              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.




              Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.









              • 4




                Ancient Greek is not "Latin's direct ancestor". The question did mention Romanian: "roumain opt noapte"
                – sumelic
                yesterday








              • 1




                As sumelic says, the Greek forms are not ancestral to the Latin form. They all derive from the same proto-form. Also, yö- doesn’t need the hyphen, because it’s not an abstract root: the normal Finnish word for ‘evening/night’ is just . The Hungarian equivalent, and cognate, is just éj, whereas éjszaka is more like ‘(at) nighttime’.
                – Janus Bahs Jacquet
                yesterday






              • 2




                Basque, Finnish, and Hungarian aren't Indo-European languages. Finnish and Hungarian are Uralic languages, while Basque is a language isolate.
                – Mark
                yesterday










              • Please provide some references to support your claims.
                – Oddthinking
                22 hours ago






              • 2




                @Mark I think that user3445853 knows this, and that it’s actually the whole point they are trying to make in that sentence: that had the OP included some non-IE languages, they would have spotted that they do not obey the pattern.
                – Emil Jeřábek
                9 hours ago














              • 4




                Ancient Greek is not "Latin's direct ancestor". The question did mention Romanian: "roumain opt noapte"
                – sumelic
                yesterday








              • 1




                As sumelic says, the Greek forms are not ancestral to the Latin form. They all derive from the same proto-form. Also, yö- doesn’t need the hyphen, because it’s not an abstract root: the normal Finnish word for ‘evening/night’ is just . The Hungarian equivalent, and cognate, is just éj, whereas éjszaka is more like ‘(at) nighttime’.
                – Janus Bahs Jacquet
                yesterday






              • 2




                Basque, Finnish, and Hungarian aren't Indo-European languages. Finnish and Hungarian are Uralic languages, while Basque is a language isolate.
                – Mark
                yesterday










              • Please provide some references to support your claims.
                – Oddthinking
                22 hours ago






              • 2




                @Mark I think that user3445853 knows this, and that it’s actually the whole point they are trying to make in that sentence: that had the OP included some non-IE languages, they would have spotted that they do not obey the pattern.
                – Emil Jeřábek
                9 hours ago








              4




              4




              Ancient Greek is not "Latin's direct ancestor". The question did mention Romanian: "roumain opt noapte"
              – sumelic
              yesterday






              Ancient Greek is not "Latin's direct ancestor". The question did mention Romanian: "roumain opt noapte"
              – sumelic
              yesterday






              1




              1




              As sumelic says, the Greek forms are not ancestral to the Latin form. They all derive from the same proto-form. Also, yö- doesn’t need the hyphen, because it’s not an abstract root: the normal Finnish word for ‘evening/night’ is just . The Hungarian equivalent, and cognate, is just éj, whereas éjszaka is more like ‘(at) nighttime’.
              – Janus Bahs Jacquet
              yesterday




              As sumelic says, the Greek forms are not ancestral to the Latin form. They all derive from the same proto-form. Also, yö- doesn’t need the hyphen, because it’s not an abstract root: the normal Finnish word for ‘evening/night’ is just . The Hungarian equivalent, and cognate, is just éj, whereas éjszaka is more like ‘(at) nighttime’.
              – Janus Bahs Jacquet
              yesterday




              2




              2




              Basque, Finnish, and Hungarian aren't Indo-European languages. Finnish and Hungarian are Uralic languages, while Basque is a language isolate.
              – Mark
              yesterday




              Basque, Finnish, and Hungarian aren't Indo-European languages. Finnish and Hungarian are Uralic languages, while Basque is a language isolate.
              – Mark
              yesterday












              Please provide some references to support your claims.
              – Oddthinking
              22 hours ago




              Please provide some references to support your claims.
              – Oddthinking
              22 hours ago




              2




              2




              @Mark I think that user3445853 knows this, and that it’s actually the whole point they are trying to make in that sentence: that had the OP included some non-IE languages, they would have spotted that they do not obey the pattern.
              – Emil Jeřábek
              9 hours ago




              @Mark I think that user3445853 knows this, and that it’s actually the whole point they are trying to make in that sentence: that had the OP included some non-IE languages, they would have spotted that they do not obey the pattern.
              – Emil Jeřábek
              9 hours ago










              up vote
              0
              down vote













              No, night and day come from old Norse.



              https://glosbe.com/en/non/night




              nátt { noun feminine }
              The period between sunset and sunrise, when a location faces far away from the sun, thus when the sky is dark.




              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%B3tt




              In Norse mythology, Nótt (Old Norse "night"[1]) is night personified, grandmother of Thor.




              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagr




              In Norse mythology, Dagr (Old Norse "day"[1]) is day personified.




              Old Norse blended with early Germanic languages, from which English is derived.






              share|improve this answer

























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                No, night and day come from old Norse.



                https://glosbe.com/en/non/night




                nátt { noun feminine }
                The period between sunset and sunrise, when a location faces far away from the sun, thus when the sky is dark.




                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%B3tt




                In Norse mythology, Nótt (Old Norse "night"[1]) is night personified, grandmother of Thor.




                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagr




                In Norse mythology, Dagr (Old Norse "day"[1]) is day personified.




                Old Norse blended with early Germanic languages, from which English is derived.






                share|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  No, night and day come from old Norse.



                  https://glosbe.com/en/non/night




                  nátt { noun feminine }
                  The period between sunset and sunrise, when a location faces far away from the sun, thus when the sky is dark.




                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%B3tt




                  In Norse mythology, Nótt (Old Norse "night"[1]) is night personified, grandmother of Thor.




                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagr




                  In Norse mythology, Dagr (Old Norse "day"[1]) is day personified.




                  Old Norse blended with early Germanic languages, from which English is derived.






                  share|improve this answer












                  No, night and day come from old Norse.



                  https://glosbe.com/en/non/night




                  nátt { noun feminine }
                  The period between sunset and sunrise, when a location faces far away from the sun, thus when the sky is dark.




                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%B3tt




                  In Norse mythology, Nótt (Old Norse "night"[1]) is night personified, grandmother of Thor.




                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagr




                  In Norse mythology, Dagr (Old Norse "day"[1]) is day personified.




                  Old Norse blended with early Germanic languages, from which English is derived.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 1 hour ago









                  Chloe

                  84211015




                  84211015






















                      up vote
                      -1
                      down vote













                      Roberts French dictionary says that nuit (night) comes from the Latin noctis meaning nocturnal (vient du latin nox, noctis → noctambule, nocturne).






                      share|improve this answer










                      New contributor




                      dubious f is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.














                      • 1




                        Maybe I am. But n+octo (8 in Latin) falls also pretty close to noctis.
                        – bilbo_pingouin
                        2 days ago








                      • 1




                        Welcome to Skeptics! Can you please give a more precise reference? What dictionary is that, and which edition?
                        – Oddthinking
                        2 days ago






                      • 27




                        I think I'm missing something. Doesn't this answer just explain that the French word for "night" is related to a Latin root that also refers to "night" (which is not surprising at all given that French is a language that developed from Latin)?
                        – Schmuddi
                        2 days ago






                      • 6




                        In the body of the question it says "Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French)." This doesn't provide anything that wasn't already mentioned in the question.
                        – JMac
                        yesterday















                      up vote
                      -1
                      down vote













                      Roberts French dictionary says that nuit (night) comes from the Latin noctis meaning nocturnal (vient du latin nox, noctis → noctambule, nocturne).






                      share|improve this answer










                      New contributor




                      dubious f is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.














                      • 1




                        Maybe I am. But n+octo (8 in Latin) falls also pretty close to noctis.
                        – bilbo_pingouin
                        2 days ago








                      • 1




                        Welcome to Skeptics! Can you please give a more precise reference? What dictionary is that, and which edition?
                        – Oddthinking
                        2 days ago






                      • 27




                        I think I'm missing something. Doesn't this answer just explain that the French word for "night" is related to a Latin root that also refers to "night" (which is not surprising at all given that French is a language that developed from Latin)?
                        – Schmuddi
                        2 days ago






                      • 6




                        In the body of the question it says "Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French)." This doesn't provide anything that wasn't already mentioned in the question.
                        – JMac
                        yesterday













                      up vote
                      -1
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      -1
                      down vote









                      Roberts French dictionary says that nuit (night) comes from the Latin noctis meaning nocturnal (vient du latin nox, noctis → noctambule, nocturne).






                      share|improve this answer










                      New contributor




                      dubious f is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                      Roberts French dictionary says that nuit (night) comes from the Latin noctis meaning nocturnal (vient du latin nox, noctis → noctambule, nocturne).







                      share|improve this answer










                      New contributor




                      dubious f is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited 2 days ago









                      Oddthinking

                      98.3k30408514




                      98.3k30408514






                      New contributor




                      dubious f is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                      answered 2 days ago









                      dubious f

                      1




                      1




                      New contributor




                      dubious f is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.





                      New contributor





                      dubious f is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                      dubious f is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.








                      • 1




                        Maybe I am. But n+octo (8 in Latin) falls also pretty close to noctis.
                        – bilbo_pingouin
                        2 days ago








                      • 1




                        Welcome to Skeptics! Can you please give a more precise reference? What dictionary is that, and which edition?
                        – Oddthinking
                        2 days ago






                      • 27




                        I think I'm missing something. Doesn't this answer just explain that the French word for "night" is related to a Latin root that also refers to "night" (which is not surprising at all given that French is a language that developed from Latin)?
                        – Schmuddi
                        2 days ago






                      • 6




                        In the body of the question it says "Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French)." This doesn't provide anything that wasn't already mentioned in the question.
                        – JMac
                        yesterday














                      • 1




                        Maybe I am. But n+octo (8 in Latin) falls also pretty close to noctis.
                        – bilbo_pingouin
                        2 days ago








                      • 1




                        Welcome to Skeptics! Can you please give a more precise reference? What dictionary is that, and which edition?
                        – Oddthinking
                        2 days ago






                      • 27




                        I think I'm missing something. Doesn't this answer just explain that the French word for "night" is related to a Latin root that also refers to "night" (which is not surprising at all given that French is a language that developed from Latin)?
                        – Schmuddi
                        2 days ago






                      • 6




                        In the body of the question it says "Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French)." This doesn't provide anything that wasn't already mentioned in the question.
                        – JMac
                        yesterday








                      1




                      1




                      Maybe I am. But n+octo (8 in Latin) falls also pretty close to noctis.
                      – bilbo_pingouin
                      2 days ago






                      Maybe I am. But n+octo (8 in Latin) falls also pretty close to noctis.
                      – bilbo_pingouin
                      2 days ago






                      1




                      1




                      Welcome to Skeptics! Can you please give a more precise reference? What dictionary is that, and which edition?
                      – Oddthinking
                      2 days ago




                      Welcome to Skeptics! Can you please give a more precise reference? What dictionary is that, and which edition?
                      – Oddthinking
                      2 days ago




                      27




                      27




                      I think I'm missing something. Doesn't this answer just explain that the French word for "night" is related to a Latin root that also refers to "night" (which is not surprising at all given that French is a language that developed from Latin)?
                      – Schmuddi
                      2 days ago




                      I think I'm missing something. Doesn't this answer just explain that the French word for "night" is related to a Latin root that also refers to "night" (which is not surprising at all given that French is a language that developed from Latin)?
                      – Schmuddi
                      2 days ago




                      6




                      6




                      In the body of the question it says "Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French)." This doesn't provide anything that wasn't already mentioned in the question.
                      – JMac
                      yesterday




                      In the body of the question it says "Furthermore, the word nuit was used as noit in older French, and derives from noctum (latin) and thus nox (littré in French)." This doesn't provide anything that wasn't already mentioned in the question.
                      – JMac
                      yesterday



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