Does Gita support doctrine of eternal samsara?












1















We find these verses in 16th chapter of Gita.




tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān saṁsāreṣu narādhamān kṣipāmy ajasram
aśubhān āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu



āsurīṁ yonim āpannā mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva kaunteya
tato yānty adhamāṁ gatim




English translation by Swami Prabhupada:




BG 16.19: Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest
among men,I perpetually cast into the ocean of material existence,
into various demoniac species of life.




English Translation By Swami Gambirananda




16.19 I cast for ever those hateful, cruel, evil-doers in the worlds, the vilest of human beings, verily into the demoniacla classes.




English Translation By By Dr. S. Sankaranarayan




16.19. These hateful, cruel, basest men, I hurl incessantly into the inauspicious demoniac wombs alone in the cycle of birth-and-death.




English Translation By Swami Sivananda




16.19 Those cruel haters, worst among men in the world, I hurl those evil-doers into the wombs of demons only.




English Translation by Shri Purohit Swami




16.19 Those who thus hate Me, who are cruel, the dregs of mankind, I condemn them to a continuous, miserable and godless rebirth.




English translation by Swami Prabhupada:




BG 16.20: Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac
life, O son of Kuntī, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually
they sink down to the most abominable type of existence




English Translation By Swami Gambirananda




16.20 Being born among the demoniacal species in births after births, the foods, without ever reaching Me, O son of Kunti, attain
conditions lower than that
.




English Translation By By Dr. S. Sankaranarayan




16.20. Having come to the demoniac womb, birth after birth, and not attaining Me at all, these deluded persons, therefore, pass to the
lowest state, O son of Kunti
!




English Translation By Swami Sivananda




16.20 Entering into demoniacal wombs and deluded, birth after birth, not attaining Me, they thus fall, O Arjuna, into a condition still lower than that.




English Translation by Shri Purohit Swami




16.20 So reborn, they spend life after life, enveloped in delusion. And they never reach Me, O Prince, but degenerate into still lower forms of life.




Krishna seems to suggest eternal samsara and all translated those verses that way.



Do these verses of Gita support eternal samsara for some living beings and they have no way out?










share|improve this question





























    1















    We find these verses in 16th chapter of Gita.




    tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān saṁsāreṣu narādhamān kṣipāmy ajasram
    aśubhān āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu



    āsurīṁ yonim āpannā mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva kaunteya
    tato yānty adhamāṁ gatim




    English translation by Swami Prabhupada:




    BG 16.19: Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest
    among men,I perpetually cast into the ocean of material existence,
    into various demoniac species of life.




    English Translation By Swami Gambirananda




    16.19 I cast for ever those hateful, cruel, evil-doers in the worlds, the vilest of human beings, verily into the demoniacla classes.




    English Translation By By Dr. S. Sankaranarayan




    16.19. These hateful, cruel, basest men, I hurl incessantly into the inauspicious demoniac wombs alone in the cycle of birth-and-death.




    English Translation By Swami Sivananda




    16.19 Those cruel haters, worst among men in the world, I hurl those evil-doers into the wombs of demons only.




    English Translation by Shri Purohit Swami




    16.19 Those who thus hate Me, who are cruel, the dregs of mankind, I condemn them to a continuous, miserable and godless rebirth.




    English translation by Swami Prabhupada:




    BG 16.20: Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac
    life, O son of Kuntī, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually
    they sink down to the most abominable type of existence




    English Translation By Swami Gambirananda




    16.20 Being born among the demoniacal species in births after births, the foods, without ever reaching Me, O son of Kunti, attain
    conditions lower than that
    .




    English Translation By By Dr. S. Sankaranarayan




    16.20. Having come to the demoniac womb, birth after birth, and not attaining Me at all, these deluded persons, therefore, pass to the
    lowest state, O son of Kunti
    !




    English Translation By Swami Sivananda




    16.20 Entering into demoniacal wombs and deluded, birth after birth, not attaining Me, they thus fall, O Arjuna, into a condition still lower than that.




    English Translation by Shri Purohit Swami




    16.20 So reborn, they spend life after life, enveloped in delusion. And they never reach Me, O Prince, but degenerate into still lower forms of life.




    Krishna seems to suggest eternal samsara and all translated those verses that way.



    Do these verses of Gita support eternal samsara for some living beings and they have no way out?










    share|improve this question



























      1












      1








      1








      We find these verses in 16th chapter of Gita.




      tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān saṁsāreṣu narādhamān kṣipāmy ajasram
      aśubhān āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu



      āsurīṁ yonim āpannā mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva kaunteya
      tato yānty adhamāṁ gatim




      English translation by Swami Prabhupada:




      BG 16.19: Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest
      among men,I perpetually cast into the ocean of material existence,
      into various demoniac species of life.




      English Translation By Swami Gambirananda




      16.19 I cast for ever those hateful, cruel, evil-doers in the worlds, the vilest of human beings, verily into the demoniacla classes.




      English Translation By By Dr. S. Sankaranarayan




      16.19. These hateful, cruel, basest men, I hurl incessantly into the inauspicious demoniac wombs alone in the cycle of birth-and-death.




      English Translation By Swami Sivananda




      16.19 Those cruel haters, worst among men in the world, I hurl those evil-doers into the wombs of demons only.




      English Translation by Shri Purohit Swami




      16.19 Those who thus hate Me, who are cruel, the dregs of mankind, I condemn them to a continuous, miserable and godless rebirth.




      English translation by Swami Prabhupada:




      BG 16.20: Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac
      life, O son of Kuntī, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually
      they sink down to the most abominable type of existence




      English Translation By Swami Gambirananda




      16.20 Being born among the demoniacal species in births after births, the foods, without ever reaching Me, O son of Kunti, attain
      conditions lower than that
      .




      English Translation By By Dr. S. Sankaranarayan




      16.20. Having come to the demoniac womb, birth after birth, and not attaining Me at all, these deluded persons, therefore, pass to the
      lowest state, O son of Kunti
      !




      English Translation By Swami Sivananda




      16.20 Entering into demoniacal wombs and deluded, birth after birth, not attaining Me, they thus fall, O Arjuna, into a condition still lower than that.




      English Translation by Shri Purohit Swami




      16.20 So reborn, they spend life after life, enveloped in delusion. And they never reach Me, O Prince, but degenerate into still lower forms of life.




      Krishna seems to suggest eternal samsara and all translated those verses that way.



      Do these verses of Gita support eternal samsara for some living beings and they have no way out?










      share|improve this question
















      We find these verses in 16th chapter of Gita.




      tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān saṁsāreṣu narādhamān kṣipāmy ajasram
      aśubhān āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu



      āsurīṁ yonim āpannā mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva kaunteya
      tato yānty adhamāṁ gatim




      English translation by Swami Prabhupada:




      BG 16.19: Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest
      among men,I perpetually cast into the ocean of material existence,
      into various demoniac species of life.




      English Translation By Swami Gambirananda




      16.19 I cast for ever those hateful, cruel, evil-doers in the worlds, the vilest of human beings, verily into the demoniacla classes.




      English Translation By By Dr. S. Sankaranarayan




      16.19. These hateful, cruel, basest men, I hurl incessantly into the inauspicious demoniac wombs alone in the cycle of birth-and-death.




      English Translation By Swami Sivananda




      16.19 Those cruel haters, worst among men in the world, I hurl those evil-doers into the wombs of demons only.




      English Translation by Shri Purohit Swami




      16.19 Those who thus hate Me, who are cruel, the dregs of mankind, I condemn them to a continuous, miserable and godless rebirth.




      English translation by Swami Prabhupada:




      BG 16.20: Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac
      life, O son of Kuntī, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually
      they sink down to the most abominable type of existence




      English Translation By Swami Gambirananda




      16.20 Being born among the demoniacal species in births after births, the foods, without ever reaching Me, O son of Kunti, attain
      conditions lower than that
      .




      English Translation By By Dr. S. Sankaranarayan




      16.20. Having come to the demoniac womb, birth after birth, and not attaining Me at all, these deluded persons, therefore, pass to the
      lowest state, O son of Kunti
      !




      English Translation By Swami Sivananda




      16.20 Entering into demoniacal wombs and deluded, birth after birth, not attaining Me, they thus fall, O Arjuna, into a condition still lower than that.




      English Translation by Shri Purohit Swami




      16.20 So reborn, they spend life after life, enveloped in delusion. And they never reach Me, O Prince, but degenerate into still lower forms of life.




      Krishna seems to suggest eternal samsara and all translated those verses that way.



      Do these verses of Gita support eternal samsara for some living beings and they have no way out?







      bhagavad-gita samsara






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      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 1 hour ago







      Krishna Varna

















      asked 2 hours ago









      Krishna VarnaKrishna Varna

      1,10717




      1,10717






















          1 Answer
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          oldest

          votes


















          3














          Samsara = bhumi + svarga + naraka



          Samsara is eternal. Creation and Destruction have always happened and will always happen. 'yatha purvam akalpayat' - RigVeda 10.190.3



          Krishna says :




          I forever punish evil men




          You interpreted :




          I punish evil men forever




          Krishna says :




          Evil men never reach me




          You interpreted :




          Evil men never reach me




          You're wrongly assuming that once a person is labeled as evil or good, he stays that way. That's not true. Because good or evil are not characteristics of a person, they are characteristics of an act. Once the consequences of the act are complete, the person goes back to being a blank slate (sort of, cos vasanas still exist).



          Bhagavan does not damn sinners to hell forever.

          Bhagavan does not deign saints to heaven forever.



          Both are temporary. After exhaustion of the rewards or punishments, the Jiva has to return to earth. 'kshine punye martya lokam vishanti' - Bhagavad Gita 9.21



          Since Samsara is eternal, there will always be saints, sinners and normal people.
          As long as sinners exists, Krishna will do his duty of punishing them. Duration of punishment depends on type of sin.



          The Jiva, out of his own free-will, can choose to stay in samsara, or get out. But only the will is free, the consequences are not. That is in Bhagavan's hands.

          Where he stays within samsara, what happens to him during his stay, and how long he stays, is a combination of his free-will to act, and Bhagavan's free-will to react.



          The whole point of Bhagavan using such harsh words in Gita is to drive home this point :




          A person, as long as he does evil acts, cannot reach Me.







          share|improve this answer


























          • Good answer.Thanks

            – commonman
            10 mins ago



















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes








          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          3














          Samsara = bhumi + svarga + naraka



          Samsara is eternal. Creation and Destruction have always happened and will always happen. 'yatha purvam akalpayat' - RigVeda 10.190.3



          Krishna says :




          I forever punish evil men




          You interpreted :




          I punish evil men forever




          Krishna says :




          Evil men never reach me




          You interpreted :




          Evil men never reach me




          You're wrongly assuming that once a person is labeled as evil or good, he stays that way. That's not true. Because good or evil are not characteristics of a person, they are characteristics of an act. Once the consequences of the act are complete, the person goes back to being a blank slate (sort of, cos vasanas still exist).



          Bhagavan does not damn sinners to hell forever.

          Bhagavan does not deign saints to heaven forever.



          Both are temporary. After exhaustion of the rewards or punishments, the Jiva has to return to earth. 'kshine punye martya lokam vishanti' - Bhagavad Gita 9.21



          Since Samsara is eternal, there will always be saints, sinners and normal people.
          As long as sinners exists, Krishna will do his duty of punishing them. Duration of punishment depends on type of sin.



          The Jiva, out of his own free-will, can choose to stay in samsara, or get out. But only the will is free, the consequences are not. That is in Bhagavan's hands.

          Where he stays within samsara, what happens to him during his stay, and how long he stays, is a combination of his free-will to act, and Bhagavan's free-will to react.



          The whole point of Bhagavan using such harsh words in Gita is to drive home this point :




          A person, as long as he does evil acts, cannot reach Me.







          share|improve this answer


























          • Good answer.Thanks

            – commonman
            10 mins ago
















          3














          Samsara = bhumi + svarga + naraka



          Samsara is eternal. Creation and Destruction have always happened and will always happen. 'yatha purvam akalpayat' - RigVeda 10.190.3



          Krishna says :




          I forever punish evil men




          You interpreted :




          I punish evil men forever




          Krishna says :




          Evil men never reach me




          You interpreted :




          Evil men never reach me




          You're wrongly assuming that once a person is labeled as evil or good, he stays that way. That's not true. Because good or evil are not characteristics of a person, they are characteristics of an act. Once the consequences of the act are complete, the person goes back to being a blank slate (sort of, cos vasanas still exist).



          Bhagavan does not damn sinners to hell forever.

          Bhagavan does not deign saints to heaven forever.



          Both are temporary. After exhaustion of the rewards or punishments, the Jiva has to return to earth. 'kshine punye martya lokam vishanti' - Bhagavad Gita 9.21



          Since Samsara is eternal, there will always be saints, sinners and normal people.
          As long as sinners exists, Krishna will do his duty of punishing them. Duration of punishment depends on type of sin.



          The Jiva, out of his own free-will, can choose to stay in samsara, or get out. But only the will is free, the consequences are not. That is in Bhagavan's hands.

          Where he stays within samsara, what happens to him during his stay, and how long he stays, is a combination of his free-will to act, and Bhagavan's free-will to react.



          The whole point of Bhagavan using such harsh words in Gita is to drive home this point :




          A person, as long as he does evil acts, cannot reach Me.







          share|improve this answer


























          • Good answer.Thanks

            – commonman
            10 mins ago














          3












          3








          3







          Samsara = bhumi + svarga + naraka



          Samsara is eternal. Creation and Destruction have always happened and will always happen. 'yatha purvam akalpayat' - RigVeda 10.190.3



          Krishna says :




          I forever punish evil men




          You interpreted :




          I punish evil men forever




          Krishna says :




          Evil men never reach me




          You interpreted :




          Evil men never reach me




          You're wrongly assuming that once a person is labeled as evil or good, he stays that way. That's not true. Because good or evil are not characteristics of a person, they are characteristics of an act. Once the consequences of the act are complete, the person goes back to being a blank slate (sort of, cos vasanas still exist).



          Bhagavan does not damn sinners to hell forever.

          Bhagavan does not deign saints to heaven forever.



          Both are temporary. After exhaustion of the rewards or punishments, the Jiva has to return to earth. 'kshine punye martya lokam vishanti' - Bhagavad Gita 9.21



          Since Samsara is eternal, there will always be saints, sinners and normal people.
          As long as sinners exists, Krishna will do his duty of punishing them. Duration of punishment depends on type of sin.



          The Jiva, out of his own free-will, can choose to stay in samsara, or get out. But only the will is free, the consequences are not. That is in Bhagavan's hands.

          Where he stays within samsara, what happens to him during his stay, and how long he stays, is a combination of his free-will to act, and Bhagavan's free-will to react.



          The whole point of Bhagavan using such harsh words in Gita is to drive home this point :




          A person, as long as he does evil acts, cannot reach Me.







          share|improve this answer















          Samsara = bhumi + svarga + naraka



          Samsara is eternal. Creation and Destruction have always happened and will always happen. 'yatha purvam akalpayat' - RigVeda 10.190.3



          Krishna says :




          I forever punish evil men




          You interpreted :




          I punish evil men forever




          Krishna says :




          Evil men never reach me




          You interpreted :




          Evil men never reach me




          You're wrongly assuming that once a person is labeled as evil or good, he stays that way. That's not true. Because good or evil are not characteristics of a person, they are characteristics of an act. Once the consequences of the act are complete, the person goes back to being a blank slate (sort of, cos vasanas still exist).



          Bhagavan does not damn sinners to hell forever.

          Bhagavan does not deign saints to heaven forever.



          Both are temporary. After exhaustion of the rewards or punishments, the Jiva has to return to earth. 'kshine punye martya lokam vishanti' - Bhagavad Gita 9.21



          Since Samsara is eternal, there will always be saints, sinners and normal people.
          As long as sinners exists, Krishna will do his duty of punishing them. Duration of punishment depends on type of sin.



          The Jiva, out of his own free-will, can choose to stay in samsara, or get out. But only the will is free, the consequences are not. That is in Bhagavan's hands.

          Where he stays within samsara, what happens to him during his stay, and how long he stays, is a combination of his free-will to act, and Bhagavan's free-will to react.



          The whole point of Bhagavan using such harsh words in Gita is to drive home this point :




          A person, as long as he does evil acts, cannot reach Me.








          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 1 min ago

























          answered 26 mins ago









          ramram

          4,19911336




          4,19911336













          • Good answer.Thanks

            – commonman
            10 mins ago



















          • Good answer.Thanks

            – commonman
            10 mins ago

















          Good answer.Thanks

          – commonman
          10 mins ago





          Good answer.Thanks

          – commonman
          10 mins ago



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