How to determine if a pre-head dependent of a noun is a complement or a modifier
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These examples are from CGEL*.
a linguistics student
a first-year student
CGEL says 'linguistics' is a complement of the noun 'student', whereas 'first-year' is a modifier of the noun 'student'.
How exactly do you determine the former is a complement and the latter is a modifier?
Also, in the following examples of my own choosing, are the words in bold complements or modifiers of the respective subsequent nouns? And how do you reach your conclusion?
a college student
a police station
a tax bill
*The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language by Pullum and Huddleston (p439)
noun-phrases
edited Apr 12 at 13:48
Edwin Ashworth
48.7k986151
asked Apr 12 at 12:48
JK2
12111651
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 2 days ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
These examples are from CGEL*.
a linguistics student
a first-year student
CGEL says 'linguistics' is a complement of the noun 'student', whereas 'first-year' is a modifier of the noun 'student'.
How exactly do you determine the former is a complement and the latter is a modifier?
Also, in the following examples of my own choosing, are the words in bold complements or modifiers of the respective subsequent nouns? And how do you reach your conclusion?
a college student
a police station
a tax bill
*The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language by Pullum and Huddleston (p439)
noun-phrases
edited Apr 12 at 13:48
Edwin Ashworth
48.7k986151
asked Apr 12 at 12:48
JK2
12111651
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 2 days ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
Your own examples seem more like open compounds with the first noun used distributively.
– KarlG
Apr 12 at 13:01
Maybe they are saying that if it answers the question "is it a type of..." then it's a complement. whereas if it just serves to differentiate within a type then it's a modifier. ? A cruise ship as opposed to a white ship.
– Jim
Apr 12 at 13:47
2
Related discussion: use of possessive determiners with adjectives. The 'cohesiveness' of the noun+noun (or adjective + noun) string is the key issue. And I'd say it's open to debate in some examples.
– Edwin Ashworth
Apr 12 at 14:02
Of course, many modern dictionaries list compound nouns much more comprehensively than was the case several decades ago. But this doesn't help with reasonably strong collocations.
– Edwin Ashworth
Apr 12 at 14:59
4
If P&H don't give syntactic tests to distinguish them, they haven't made a distinction. Frankly, I don't think "complement" should be used for anything that's not a clause or a reduced clause, and I don't think a vague but binary distinction like "modifier/complement" will suffice to distinguish all the varieties of noun compounds.
– John Lawler
Apr 12 at 15:19
add a comment |
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
up vote
6
down vote
favorite
These examples are from CGEL*.
a linguistics student
a first-year student
CGEL says 'linguistics' is a complement of the noun 'student', whereas 'first-year' is a modifier of the noun 'student'.
How exactly do you determine the former is a complement and the latter is a modifier?
Also, in the following examples of my own choosing, are the words in bold complements or modifiers of the respective subsequent nouns? And how do you reach your conclusion?
a college student
a police station
a tax bill
*The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language by Pullum and Huddleston (p439)
noun-phrases
edited Apr 12 at 13:48
Edwin Ashworth
48.7k986151
asked Apr 12 at 12:48
JK2
12111651
These examples are from CGEL*.
a linguistics student
a first-year student
CGEL says 'linguistics' is a complement of the noun 'student', whereas 'first-year' is a modifier of the noun 'student'.
How exactly do you determine the former is a complement and the latter is a modifier?
Also, in the following examples of my own choosing, are the words in bold complements or modifiers of the respective subsequent nouns? And how do you reach your conclusion?
a college student
a police station
a tax bill
*The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language by Pullum and Huddleston (p439)
noun-phrases
noun-phrases
edited Apr 12 at 13:48
Edwin Ashworth
48.7k986151
asked Apr 12 at 12:48
JK2
12111651
edited Apr 12 at 13:48
Edwin Ashworth
48.7k986151
asked Apr 12 at 12:48
JK2
12111651
edited Apr 12 at 13:48
Edwin Ashworth
48.7k986151
edited Apr 12 at 13:48
Edwin Ashworth
48.7k986151
edited Apr 12 at 13:48
Edwin Ashworth
48.7k986151
48.7k986151
asked Apr 12 at 12:48
JK2
12111651
asked Apr 12 at 12:48
JK2
12111651
asked Apr 12 at 12:48
JK2
12111651
12111651
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 2 days ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
bumped to the homepage by Community♦ 2 days ago
This question has answers that may be good or bad; the system has marked it active so that they can be reviewed.
Your own examples seem more like open compounds with the first noun used distributively.
– KarlG
Apr 12 at 13:01
Maybe they are saying that if it answers the question "is it a type of..." then it's a complement. whereas if it just serves to differentiate within a type then it's a modifier. ? A cruise ship as opposed to a white ship.
– Jim
Apr 12 at 13:47
2
Related discussion: use of possessive determiners with adjectives. The 'cohesiveness' of the noun+noun (or adjective + noun) string is the key issue. And I'd say it's open to debate in some examples.
– Edwin Ashworth
Apr 12 at 14:02
Of course, many modern dictionaries list compound nouns much more comprehensively than was the case several decades ago. But this doesn't help with reasonably strong collocations.
– Edwin Ashworth
Apr 12 at 14:59
4
If P&H don't give syntactic tests to distinguish them, they haven't made a distinction. Frankly, I don't think "complement" should be used for anything that's not a clause or a reduced clause, and I don't think a vague but binary distinction like "modifier/complement" will suffice to distinguish all the varieties of noun compounds.
– John Lawler
Apr 12 at 15:19
add a comment |
Your own examples seem more like open compounds with the first noun used distributively.
– KarlG
Apr 12 at 13:01
Maybe they are saying that if it answers the question "is it a type of..." then it's a complement. whereas if it just serves to differentiate within a type then it's a modifier. ? A cruise ship as opposed to a white ship.
– Jim
Apr 12 at 13:47
2
Related discussion: use of possessive determiners with adjectives. The 'cohesiveness' of the noun+noun (or adjective + noun) string is the key issue. And I'd say it's open to debate in some examples.
– Edwin Ashworth
Apr 12 at 14:02
Of course, many modern dictionaries list compound nouns much more comprehensively than was the case several decades ago. But this doesn't help with reasonably strong collocations.
– Edwin Ashworth
Apr 12 at 14:59
4
If P&H don't give syntactic tests to distinguish them, they haven't made a distinction. Frankly, I don't think "complement" should be used for anything that's not a clause or a reduced clause, and I don't think a vague but binary distinction like "modifier/complement" will suffice to distinguish all the varieties of noun compounds.
– John Lawler
Apr 12 at 15:19
Your own examples seem more like open compounds with the first noun used distributively.
– KarlG
Apr 12 at 13:01
Your own examples seem more like open compounds with the first noun used distributively.
– KarlG
Apr 12 at 13:01
Maybe they are saying that if it answers the question "is it a type of..." then it's a complement. whereas if it just serves to differentiate within a type then it's a modifier. ? A cruise ship as opposed to a white ship.
– Jim
Apr 12 at 13:47
Maybe they are saying that if it answers the question "is it a type of..." then it's a complement. whereas if it just serves to differentiate within a type then it's a modifier. ? A cruise ship as opposed to a white ship.
– Jim
Apr 12 at 13:47
2
2
Related discussion: use of possessive determiners with adjectives. The 'cohesiveness' of the noun+noun (or adjective + noun) string is the key issue. And I'd say it's open to debate in some examples.
– Edwin Ashworth
Apr 12 at 14:02
Related discussion: use of possessive determiners with adjectives. The 'cohesiveness' of the noun+noun (or adjective + noun) string is the key issue. And I'd say it's open to debate in some examples.
– Edwin Ashworth
Apr 12 at 14:02
Of course, many modern dictionaries list compound nouns much more comprehensively than was the case several decades ago. But this doesn't help with reasonably strong collocations.
– Edwin Ashworth
Apr 12 at 14:59
Of course, many modern dictionaries list compound nouns much more comprehensively than was the case several decades ago. But this doesn't help with reasonably strong collocations.
– Edwin Ashworth
Apr 12 at 14:59
4
4
If P&H don't give syntactic tests to distinguish them, they haven't made a distinction. Frankly, I don't think "complement" should be used for anything that's not a clause or a reduced clause, and I don't think a vague but binary distinction like "modifier/complement" will suffice to distinguish all the varieties of noun compounds.
– John Lawler
Apr 12 at 15:19
If P&H don't give syntactic tests to distinguish them, they haven't made a distinction. Frankly, I don't think "complement" should be used for anything that's not a clause or a reduced clause, and I don't think a vague but binary distinction like "modifier/complement" will suffice to distinguish all the varieties of noun compounds.
– John Lawler
Apr 12 at 15:19
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
To steal an answer from here, "a modifier, unlike a complement, is an optional element of a sentence".
You can talk about students without necessarily specifying they are college students, but people could be confused if you talked about a station without using "police station" at least once already as its default meaning is, at least to me, a train station.
answered Aug 20 at 7:55
Gulliver
69336
What's the syntactic test then?
– tchrist♦
Aug 20 at 8:14
Honestly, I don't think there is one. The two are so near in meaning and function as to almost be synonymous.
– Gulliver
Aug 20 at 8:18
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
To steal an answer from here, "a modifier, unlike a complement, is an optional element of a sentence".
You can talk about students without necessarily specifying they are college students, but people could be confused if you talked about a station without using "police station" at least once already as its default meaning is, at least to me, a train station.
answered Aug 20 at 7:55
Gulliver
69336
What's the syntactic test then?
– tchrist♦
Aug 20 at 8:14
Honestly, I don't think there is one. The two are so near in meaning and function as to almost be synonymous.
– Gulliver
Aug 20 at 8:18
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
To steal an answer from here, "a modifier, unlike a complement, is an optional element of a sentence".
You can talk about students without necessarily specifying they are college students, but people could be confused if you talked about a station without using "police station" at least once already as its default meaning is, at least to me, a train station.
answered Aug 20 at 7:55
Gulliver
69336
What's the syntactic test then?
– tchrist♦
Aug 20 at 8:14
Honestly, I don't think there is one. The two are so near in meaning and function as to almost be synonymous.
– Gulliver
Aug 20 at 8:18
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
To steal an answer from here, "a modifier, unlike a complement, is an optional element of a sentence".
You can talk about students without necessarily specifying they are college students, but people could be confused if you talked about a station without using "police station" at least once already as its default meaning is, at least to me, a train station.
answered Aug 20 at 7:55
Gulliver
69336
To steal an answer from here, "a modifier, unlike a complement, is an optional element of a sentence".
You can talk about students without necessarily specifying they are college students, but people could be confused if you talked about a station without using "police station" at least once already as its default meaning is, at least to me, a train station.
answered Aug 20 at 7:55
Gulliver
69336
answered Aug 20 at 7:55
Gulliver
69336
answered Aug 20 at 7:55
Gulliver
69336
answered Aug 20 at 7:55
Gulliver
69336
69336
What's the syntactic test then?
– tchrist♦
Aug 20 at 8:14
Honestly, I don't think there is one. The two are so near in meaning and function as to almost be synonymous.
– Gulliver
Aug 20 at 8:18
add a comment |
What's the syntactic test then?
– tchrist♦
Aug 20 at 8:14
Honestly, I don't think there is one. The two are so near in meaning and function as to almost be synonymous.
– Gulliver
Aug 20 at 8:18
What's the syntactic test then?
– tchrist♦
Aug 20 at 8:14
What's the syntactic test then?
– tchrist♦
Aug 20 at 8:14
Honestly, I don't think there is one. The two are so near in meaning and function as to almost be synonymous.
– Gulliver
Aug 20 at 8:18
Honestly, I don't think there is one. The two are so near in meaning and function as to almost be synonymous.
– Gulliver
Aug 20 at 8:18
add a comment |
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Your own examples seem more like open compounds with the first noun used distributively.
– KarlG
Apr 12 at 13:01
Maybe they are saying that if it answers the question "is it a type of..." then it's a complement. whereas if it just serves to differentiate within a type then it's a modifier. ? A cruise ship as opposed to a white ship.
– Jim
Apr 12 at 13:47
2
Related discussion: use of possessive determiners with adjectives. The 'cohesiveness' of the noun+noun (or adjective + noun) string is the key issue. And I'd say it's open to debate in some examples.
– Edwin Ashworth
Apr 12 at 14:02
Of course, many modern dictionaries list compound nouns much more comprehensively than was the case several decades ago. But this doesn't help with reasonably strong collocations.
– Edwin Ashworth
Apr 12 at 14:59
4
If P&H don't give syntactic tests to distinguish them, they haven't made a distinction. Frankly, I don't think "complement" should be used for anything that's not a clause or a reduced clause, and I don't think a vague but binary distinction like "modifier/complement" will suffice to distinguish all the varieties of noun compounds.
– John Lawler
Apr 12 at 15:19