Pronunciation of PhD [duplicate]





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  • “Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?

    3 answers




Why is PhD read as /piːeɪtʃˈdiː/ (from Oxford Dictionary) and not, for example, like /fˈdiː/ , while diagraph ph is read as /f/ in Latin and Greek words? Why do we write Ph if not to represent the /f/ sound?



There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.










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marked as duplicate by FumbleFingers, Michael Harvey, user240918, curiousdannii, Scott 2 hours ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.











  • 3




    To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
    – Lawrence
    10 hours ago








  • 3




    Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    7 hours ago






  • 4




    In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
    – John Lawler
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
    – Azor Ahai
    4 hours ago

















up vote
10
down vote

favorite
1













This question already has an answer here:




  • “Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?

    3 answers




Why is PhD read as /piːeɪtʃˈdiː/ (from Oxford Dictionary) and not, for example, like /fˈdiː/ , while diagraph ph is read as /f/ in Latin and Greek words? Why do we write Ph if not to represent the /f/ sound?



There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











marked as duplicate by FumbleFingers, Michael Harvey, user240918, curiousdannii, Scott 2 hours ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.











  • 3




    To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
    – Lawrence
    10 hours ago








  • 3




    Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    7 hours ago






  • 4




    In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
    – John Lawler
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
    – Azor Ahai
    4 hours ago













up vote
10
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
10
down vote

favorite
1






1






This question already has an answer here:




  • “Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?

    3 answers




Why is PhD read as /piːeɪtʃˈdiː/ (from Oxford Dictionary) and not, for example, like /fˈdiː/ , while diagraph ph is read as /f/ in Latin and Greek words? Why do we write Ph if not to represent the /f/ sound?



There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












This question already has an answer here:




  • “Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?

    3 answers




Why is PhD read as /piːeɪtʃˈdiː/ (from Oxford Dictionary) and not, for example, like /fˈdiː/ , while diagraph ph is read as /f/ in Latin and Greek words? Why do we write Ph if not to represent the /f/ sound?



There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.





This question already has an answer here:




  • “Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?

    3 answers








pronunciation






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Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









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Konstantin Morenko is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









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edited 6 hours ago









Kevin

6,55232142




6,55232142






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asked 10 hours ago









Konstantin Morenko

1603




1603




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New contributor





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Check out our Code of Conduct.






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Check out our Code of Conduct.




marked as duplicate by FumbleFingers, Michael Harvey, user240918, curiousdannii, Scott 2 hours ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.






marked as duplicate by FumbleFingers, Michael Harvey, user240918, curiousdannii, Scott 2 hours ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.










  • 3




    To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
    – Lawrence
    10 hours ago








  • 3




    Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    7 hours ago






  • 4




    In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
    – John Lawler
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
    – Azor Ahai
    4 hours ago














  • 3




    To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
    – Lawrence
    10 hours ago








  • 3




    Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    7 hours ago






  • 4




    In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
    – John Lawler
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
    – Azor Ahai
    4 hours ago








3




3




To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
10 hours ago






To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
10 hours ago






3




3




Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago




Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago




4




4




In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
7 hours ago




In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
7 hours ago




3




3




The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
– Azor Ahai
4 hours ago




The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
– Azor Ahai
4 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
16
down vote













Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.






share|improve this answer

















  • 1




    But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
    – Mark Beadles
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
    – Beanluc
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    Who says "hetch" for H?
    – Azor Ahai
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
    – JeremyC
    5 hours ago






  • 1




    @AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
    – Tracy Cramer
    4 hours ago




















up vote
16
down vote













PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.



As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.



Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.






share|improve this answer





















  • So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
    – Joker_vD
    7 hours ago






  • 4




    @Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
    – Mark Beadles
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    "that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
    – GEdgar
    6 hours ago


















2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
16
down vote













Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.






share|improve this answer

















  • 1




    But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
    – Mark Beadles
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
    – Beanluc
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    Who says "hetch" for H?
    – Azor Ahai
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
    – JeremyC
    5 hours ago






  • 1




    @AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
    – Tracy Cramer
    4 hours ago

















up vote
16
down vote













Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.






share|improve this answer

















  • 1




    But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
    – Mark Beadles
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
    – Beanluc
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    Who says "hetch" for H?
    – Azor Ahai
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
    – JeremyC
    5 hours ago






  • 1




    @AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
    – Tracy Cramer
    4 hours ago















up vote
16
down vote










up vote
16
down vote









Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.






share|improve this answer












Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 10 hours ago









Carly

1,396213




1,396213








  • 1




    But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
    – Mark Beadles
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
    – Beanluc
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    Who says "hetch" for H?
    – Azor Ahai
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
    – JeremyC
    5 hours ago






  • 1




    @AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
    – Tracy Cramer
    4 hours ago
















  • 1




    But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
    – Mark Beadles
    8 hours ago






  • 2




    Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
    – Beanluc
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    Who says "hetch" for H?
    – Azor Ahai
    6 hours ago






  • 1




    PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
    – JeremyC
    5 hours ago






  • 1




    @AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
    – Tracy Cramer
    4 hours ago










1




1




But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago




But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago




2




2




Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago




Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago




1




1




Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago




Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago




1




1




PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago




PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago




1




1




@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago






@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago














up vote
16
down vote













PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.



As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.



Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.






share|improve this answer





















  • So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
    – Joker_vD
    7 hours ago






  • 4




    @Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
    – Mark Beadles
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    "that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
    – GEdgar
    6 hours ago















up vote
16
down vote













PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.



As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.



Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.






share|improve this answer





















  • So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
    – Joker_vD
    7 hours ago






  • 4




    @Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
    – Mark Beadles
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    "that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
    – GEdgar
    6 hours ago













up vote
16
down vote










up vote
16
down vote









PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.



As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.



Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.






share|improve this answer












PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.



As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.



Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 8 hours ago









Mark Beadles

19.1k35285




19.1k35285












  • So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
    – Joker_vD
    7 hours ago






  • 4




    @Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
    – Mark Beadles
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    "that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
    – GEdgar
    6 hours ago


















  • So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
    – Joker_vD
    7 hours ago






  • 4




    @Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
    – Mark Beadles
    7 hours ago






  • 1




    "that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
    – GEdgar
    6 hours ago
















So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago




So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago




4




4




@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago




@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago




1




1




"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago




"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago



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