Pronunciation of PhD [duplicate]
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“Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?
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Why is PhD read as /piːeɪtʃˈdiː/ (from Oxford Dictionary) and not, for example, like /fˈdiː/ , while diagraph ph is read as /f/ in Latin and Greek words? Why do we write Ph if not to represent the /f/ sound?
There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.
pronunciation
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marked as duplicate by FumbleFingers, Michael Harvey, user240918, curiousdannii, Scott 2 hours ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
favorite
This question already has an answer here:
“Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?
3 answers
Why is PhD read as /piːeɪtʃˈdiː/ (from Oxford Dictionary) and not, for example, like /fˈdiː/ , while diagraph ph is read as /f/ in Latin and Greek words? Why do we write Ph if not to represent the /f/ sound?
There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.
pronunciation
New contributor
marked as duplicate by FumbleFingers, Michael Harvey, user240918, curiousdannii, Scott 2 hours ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
3
To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
10 hours ago
3
Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago
4
In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
7 hours ago
3
The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
– Azor Ahai
4 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
favorite
up vote
10
down vote
favorite
This question already has an answer here:
“Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?
3 answers
Why is PhD read as /piːeɪtʃˈdiː/ (from Oxford Dictionary) and not, for example, like /fˈdiː/ , while diagraph ph is read as /f/ in Latin and Greek words? Why do we write Ph if not to represent the /f/ sound?
There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.
pronunciation
New contributor
This question already has an answer here:
“Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?
3 answers
Why is PhD read as /piːeɪtʃˈdiː/ (from Oxford Dictionary) and not, for example, like /fˈdiː/ , while diagraph ph is read as /f/ in Latin and Greek words? Why do we write Ph if not to represent the /f/ sound?
There are questions about writing (like this) but not pronouncing.
This question already has an answer here:
“Ph” for the /f/ sound; Is Old English responsible for this swap?
3 answers
pronunciation
pronunciation
New contributor
New contributor
edited 6 hours ago
Kevin
6,55232142
6,55232142
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asked 10 hours ago
Konstantin Morenko
1603
1603
New contributor
New contributor
marked as duplicate by FumbleFingers, Michael Harvey, user240918, curiousdannii, Scott 2 hours ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
marked as duplicate by FumbleFingers, Michael Harvey, user240918, curiousdannii, Scott 2 hours ago
This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.
3
To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
10 hours ago
3
Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago
4
In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
7 hours ago
3
The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
– Azor Ahai
4 hours ago
add a comment |
3
To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
10 hours ago
3
Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago
4
In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
7 hours ago
3
The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
– Azor Ahai
4 hours ago
3
3
To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
10 hours ago
To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
10 hours ago
3
3
Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago
Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago
4
4
In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
7 hours ago
In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
7 hours ago
3
3
The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
– Azor Ahai
4 hours ago
The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
– Azor Ahai
4 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
16
down vote
Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.
1
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago
2
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago
1
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago
1
PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago
1
@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
16
down vote
PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.
As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.
Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.
So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago
4
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago
1
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
16
down vote
Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.
1
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago
2
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago
1
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago
1
PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago
1
@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
16
down vote
Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.
1
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago
2
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago
1
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago
1
PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago
1
@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
16
down vote
up vote
16
down vote
Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.
Because it is an initialism so you read out each letter ("DVD" is pronounced "dee-vee-dee", not "dvid"; "US" is pronounced "you-ess", not "uhs"). Your proposed pronunciation could be used were it an acronym.
answered 10 hours ago
Carly
1,396213
1,396213
1
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago
2
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago
1
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago
1
PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago
1
@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
1
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago
2
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago
1
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago
1
PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago
1
@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago
1
1
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago
But even PD isn't an English initialism for Doctor of Philosophy. If it were, it would be DP or DOP. It retains the structure of the original Latin Philosophiae Doctor which predates the other "PD" abbreviations by a long while, so it can't just be "courtesy to the listener".
– Mark Beadles
8 hours ago
2
2
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago
Now to clarify whether one says "P, aitch, D" or "P, hetch, D".
– Beanluc
7 hours ago
1
1
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago
Who says "hetch" for H?
– Azor Ahai
6 hours ago
1
1
PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago
PhD is not the only such example. Some English universities award the degree of Doctor of Science and use the abbreviation ScD = pronounced, as in the case of Phd, as three letters.
– JeremyC
5 hours ago
1
1
@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago
@AzorAhai, I've often heard Australians pronounce h as -h(long a)tch-, as in haytch. For example, H.264 - haytch dot 2 6 4.
– Tracy Cramer
4 hours ago
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
16
down vote
PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.
As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.
Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.
So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago
4
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago
1
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
16
down vote
PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.
As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.
Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.
So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago
4
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago
1
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
16
down vote
up vote
16
down vote
PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.
As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.
Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.
PhD (or Ph. D.) is a bit of a frozen expression or idiom. The expression doesn't abbreviate the English phrase "Doctor of Philosophy". If it did, then it be something like "DP" or "DoP". Instead, PhD retains the structure of the medieval Latin Philosophiae Doctor, which dates from the 17th century.
As to why the Latin abbreviation for "Philosophiae" was "Ph" rather than just "P"? "Philosophia" was a word borrowed into Latin from the Greek, and in Greek the word is spelled "φιλοσοφία", the first letter being φ. In Greek that's a single letter representing an aspirated π, and is transliterated into Latin as ph.
Since the abbreviation PhD does not match up with the English phrase it supposedly abbreviates, the pronunciation of the abbreviation has diverged from the pronunciation of the phrase.
answered 8 hours ago
Mark Beadles
19.1k35285
19.1k35285
So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago
4
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago
1
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago
add a comment |
So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago
4
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago
1
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago
So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago
So the reason the abbreviation for "Filosophy Doctor" is not pronounced "Eff Dee" is because medieval English scholars liked Latin way too much?
– Joker_vD
7 hours ago
4
4
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago
@Joker_vD More like late Renaissance German scholars, but yeah.
– Mark Beadles
7 hours ago
1
1
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago
"that's a single letter representing an aspirated π" ... or at least it was at some time in Greek history. Even after the Greek pronunciation of φ changed, the Latin transliteration ph was retained.
– GEdgar
6 hours ago
add a comment |
3
To be consistent, you'd either read each letter (P - h - D) or treat it as a pseudo-word (fad). By convention, Ph.D is read as individual letters.
– Lawrence
10 hours ago
3
Well, the reason it’s not /fdiː/ is that syllable-initial /fd/ is not phonotactically valid in English, so that’s not a possible pronunciation of anything. It’s a good question, though. There’s no obvious way to pronounce initialisms with digraph letters, so why one strategy was chosen over another is an interesting conundrum.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
7 hours ago
4
In English, the initial consonant cluster of /fd/ is impossible, and would never occur to a native speaker. I have heard it pronounced [fɨd], with a minimum vowel, but just as a joke.
– John Lawler
7 hours ago
3
The proposed duplicate is not related to this question
– Azor Ahai
4 hours ago