Tell + to-infinitive vs Say + to-infinitive
The road sign is said to be from as early as the 19th century.
Few would doubt this sentence is perfectly correct and idiomatic English and it's pretty much the same as saying "people say the road sign is from as early as the 19th century".
The road sign says to stop here.
And I think I know what this also means. It means the road sign says I should stop here. The road sign tells me to stop here. But I'm not quite sure if it's okay to say like that in English.
I'm familiar with the fact that English speakers, when they use the verb say, don't usually mention to whom they said it whereas they do when they use the similar but slightly different verb tell. Also, say can be followed by the preposition to if you need to say who's listening, but not tell because tell normally takes an indirect object.
This is my question:
The tell + to-infinitive construction is most commonly used by English speakers. So it wouldn't sound weird if the road sign tells me to stop here. But the road sign says to stop here? This doesn't sound natural to me. I've found only one English dictionary that says the say + to-infinitive construction is used in spoken English. English is not my first language and I was wondering if such usage is considered standard even if spoken informally. Thank you.
grammar
asked 12 hours ago
Choe GuevaraChoe Guevara
10610
|
show 2 more comments
The road sign is said to be from as early as the 19th century.
Few would doubt this sentence is perfectly correct and idiomatic English and it's pretty much the same as saying "people say the road sign is from as early as the 19th century".
The road sign says to stop here.
And I think I know what this also means. It means the road sign says I should stop here. The road sign tells me to stop here. But I'm not quite sure if it's okay to say like that in English.
I'm familiar with the fact that English speakers, when they use the verb say, don't usually mention to whom they said it whereas they do when they use the similar but slightly different verb tell. Also, say can be followed by the preposition to if you need to say who's listening, but not tell because tell normally takes an indirect object.
This is my question:
The tell + to-infinitive construction is most commonly used by English speakers. So it wouldn't sound weird if the road sign tells me to stop here. But the road sign says to stop here? This doesn't sound natural to me. I've found only one English dictionary that says the say + to-infinitive construction is used in spoken English. English is not my first language and I was wondering if such usage is considered standard even if spoken informally. Thank you.
grammar
asked 12 hours ago
Choe GuevaraChoe Guevara
10610
The relevant semantic distinction here is that "tell" implies that the communication has been received (even if not honored), whereas "say" merely implies that the message has been sent. Thus, "He said to stop, but I didn't hear him" vs. "He told me to stop, but I ignored him." But this particular distinction is most often observed only when it matters, e.g., in explaining non-compliance. Otherwise, at least in the case of traffic signs, "says to" is used, and "tells [indirect object] to" is not idiomatic, perhaps because the indirect object would just be a waste of breath.
– remarkl
10 hours ago
I really appreciate your insight. It helps me get a better grasp of their subtle difference. The focus was more on the legitimacy of the constructions involving what some non-native English speakers deem interchangeable verbs than a particular traffic sign through.
– Choe Guevara
9 hours ago
It's not clear what you are asking. "The road sign tells me to stop here" does sound weird, because road signs don't address individuals. But the structure is fine: "My Spidey sense tells me to stop here" is fine. "A little voice in my head tells me to stop here" is fine. But traffic signs are more generally addressed; they say to stop here. The issue isn't grammar; it is usage.
– remarkl
9 hours ago
I'm sorry I didn't make myself understood clearly. I agree. No road signs would tell you to do anything. I wasn't talking about the writing on the sign itself. Thank you for your kind advice again.
– Choe Guevara
8 hours ago
I guess I was curious to know if the say + to infinitive structure makes sense because, as you know, even native English speakers are sometimes divided over whether a particular usage is acceptable, and, if it does, how it's used.
– Choe Guevara
8 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
The road sign is said to be from as early as the 19th century.
Few would doubt this sentence is perfectly correct and idiomatic English and it's pretty much the same as saying "people say the road sign is from as early as the 19th century".
The road sign says to stop here.
And I think I know what this also means. It means the road sign says I should stop here. The road sign tells me to stop here. But I'm not quite sure if it's okay to say like that in English.
I'm familiar with the fact that English speakers, when they use the verb say, don't usually mention to whom they said it whereas they do when they use the similar but slightly different verb tell. Also, say can be followed by the preposition to if you need to say who's listening, but not tell because tell normally takes an indirect object.
This is my question:
The tell + to-infinitive construction is most commonly used by English speakers. So it wouldn't sound weird if the road sign tells me to stop here. But the road sign says to stop here? This doesn't sound natural to me. I've found only one English dictionary that says the say + to-infinitive construction is used in spoken English. English is not my first language and I was wondering if such usage is considered standard even if spoken informally. Thank you.
grammar
asked 12 hours ago
Choe GuevaraChoe Guevara
10610
The road sign is said to be from as early as the 19th century.
Few would doubt this sentence is perfectly correct and idiomatic English and it's pretty much the same as saying "people say the road sign is from as early as the 19th century".
The road sign says to stop here.
And I think I know what this also means. It means the road sign says I should stop here. The road sign tells me to stop here. But I'm not quite sure if it's okay to say like that in English.
I'm familiar with the fact that English speakers, when they use the verb say, don't usually mention to whom they said it whereas they do when they use the similar but slightly different verb tell. Also, say can be followed by the preposition to if you need to say who's listening, but not tell because tell normally takes an indirect object.
This is my question:
The tell + to-infinitive construction is most commonly used by English speakers. So it wouldn't sound weird if the road sign tells me to stop here. But the road sign says to stop here? This doesn't sound natural to me. I've found only one English dictionary that says the say + to-infinitive construction is used in spoken English. English is not my first language and I was wondering if such usage is considered standard even if spoken informally. Thank you.
grammar
grammar
asked 12 hours ago
Choe GuevaraChoe Guevara
10610
asked 12 hours ago
Choe GuevaraChoe Guevara
10610
edited 12 hours ago
Choe Guevara
asked 12 hours ago
Choe GuevaraChoe Guevara
10610
asked 12 hours ago
Choe GuevaraChoe Guevara
10610
asked 12 hours ago
Choe GuevaraChoe Guevara
10610
10610
The relevant semantic distinction here is that "tell" implies that the communication has been received (even if not honored), whereas "say" merely implies that the message has been sent. Thus, "He said to stop, but I didn't hear him" vs. "He told me to stop, but I ignored him." But this particular distinction is most often observed only when it matters, e.g., in explaining non-compliance. Otherwise, at least in the case of traffic signs, "says to" is used, and "tells [indirect object] to" is not idiomatic, perhaps because the indirect object would just be a waste of breath.
– remarkl
10 hours ago
I really appreciate your insight. It helps me get a better grasp of their subtle difference. The focus was more on the legitimacy of the constructions involving what some non-native English speakers deem interchangeable verbs than a particular traffic sign through.
– Choe Guevara
9 hours ago
It's not clear what you are asking. "The road sign tells me to stop here" does sound weird, because road signs don't address individuals. But the structure is fine: "My Spidey sense tells me to stop here" is fine. "A little voice in my head tells me to stop here" is fine. But traffic signs are more generally addressed; they say to stop here. The issue isn't grammar; it is usage.
– remarkl
9 hours ago
I'm sorry I didn't make myself understood clearly. I agree. No road signs would tell you to do anything. I wasn't talking about the writing on the sign itself. Thank you for your kind advice again.
– Choe Guevara
8 hours ago
I guess I was curious to know if the say + to infinitive structure makes sense because, as you know, even native English speakers are sometimes divided over whether a particular usage is acceptable, and, if it does, how it's used.
– Choe Guevara
8 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
The relevant semantic distinction here is that "tell" implies that the communication has been received (even if not honored), whereas "say" merely implies that the message has been sent. Thus, "He said to stop, but I didn't hear him" vs. "He told me to stop, but I ignored him." But this particular distinction is most often observed only when it matters, e.g., in explaining non-compliance. Otherwise, at least in the case of traffic signs, "says to" is used, and "tells [indirect object] to" is not idiomatic, perhaps because the indirect object would just be a waste of breath.
– remarkl
10 hours ago
I really appreciate your insight. It helps me get a better grasp of their subtle difference. The focus was more on the legitimacy of the constructions involving what some non-native English speakers deem interchangeable verbs than a particular traffic sign through.
– Choe Guevara
9 hours ago
It's not clear what you are asking. "The road sign tells me to stop here" does sound weird, because road signs don't address individuals. But the structure is fine: "My Spidey sense tells me to stop here" is fine. "A little voice in my head tells me to stop here" is fine. But traffic signs are more generally addressed; they say to stop here. The issue isn't grammar; it is usage.
– remarkl
9 hours ago
I'm sorry I didn't make myself understood clearly. I agree. No road signs would tell you to do anything. I wasn't talking about the writing on the sign itself. Thank you for your kind advice again.
– Choe Guevara
8 hours ago
I guess I was curious to know if the say + to infinitive structure makes sense because, as you know, even native English speakers are sometimes divided over whether a particular usage is acceptable, and, if it does, how it's used.
– Choe Guevara
8 hours ago
The relevant semantic distinction here is that "tell" implies that the communication has been received (even if not honored), whereas "say" merely implies that the message has been sent. Thus, "He said to stop, but I didn't hear him" vs. "He told me to stop, but I ignored him." But this particular distinction is most often observed only when it matters, e.g., in explaining non-compliance. Otherwise, at least in the case of traffic signs, "says to" is used, and "tells [indirect object] to" is not idiomatic, perhaps because the indirect object would just be a waste of breath.
– remarkl
10 hours ago
The relevant semantic distinction here is that "tell" implies that the communication has been received (even if not honored), whereas "say" merely implies that the message has been sent. Thus, "He said to stop, but I didn't hear him" vs. "He told me to stop, but I ignored him." But this particular distinction is most often observed only when it matters, e.g., in explaining non-compliance. Otherwise, at least in the case of traffic signs, "says to" is used, and "tells [indirect object] to" is not idiomatic, perhaps because the indirect object would just be a waste of breath.
– remarkl
10 hours ago
I really appreciate your insight. It helps me get a better grasp of their subtle difference. The focus was more on the legitimacy of the constructions involving what some non-native English speakers deem interchangeable verbs than a particular traffic sign through.
– Choe Guevara
9 hours ago
I really appreciate your insight. It helps me get a better grasp of their subtle difference. The focus was more on the legitimacy of the constructions involving what some non-native English speakers deem interchangeable verbs than a particular traffic sign through.
– Choe Guevara
9 hours ago
It's not clear what you are asking. "The road sign tells me to stop here" does sound weird, because road signs don't address individuals. But the structure is fine: "My Spidey sense tells me to stop here" is fine. "A little voice in my head tells me to stop here" is fine. But traffic signs are more generally addressed; they say to stop here. The issue isn't grammar; it is usage.
– remarkl
9 hours ago
It's not clear what you are asking. "The road sign tells me to stop here" does sound weird, because road signs don't address individuals. But the structure is fine: "My Spidey sense tells me to stop here" is fine. "A little voice in my head tells me to stop here" is fine. But traffic signs are more generally addressed; they say to stop here. The issue isn't grammar; it is usage.
– remarkl
9 hours ago
I'm sorry I didn't make myself understood clearly. I agree. No road signs would tell you to do anything. I wasn't talking about the writing on the sign itself. Thank you for your kind advice again.
– Choe Guevara
8 hours ago
I'm sorry I didn't make myself understood clearly. I agree. No road signs would tell you to do anything. I wasn't talking about the writing on the sign itself. Thank you for your kind advice again.
– Choe Guevara
8 hours ago
I guess I was curious to know if the say + to infinitive structure makes sense because, as you know, even native English speakers are sometimes divided over whether a particular usage is acceptable, and, if it does, how it's used.
– Choe Guevara
8 hours ago
I guess I was curious to know if the say + to infinitive structure makes sense because, as you know, even native English speakers are sometimes divided over whether a particular usage is acceptable, and, if it does, how it's used.
– Choe Guevara
8 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
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The relevant semantic distinction here is that "tell" implies that the communication has been received (even if not honored), whereas "say" merely implies that the message has been sent. Thus, "He said to stop, but I didn't hear him" vs. "He told me to stop, but I ignored him." But this particular distinction is most often observed only when it matters, e.g., in explaining non-compliance. Otherwise, at least in the case of traffic signs, "says to" is used, and "tells [indirect object] to" is not idiomatic, perhaps because the indirect object would just be a waste of breath.
– remarkl
10 hours ago
I really appreciate your insight. It helps me get a better grasp of their subtle difference. The focus was more on the legitimacy of the constructions involving what some non-native English speakers deem interchangeable verbs than a particular traffic sign through.
– Choe Guevara
9 hours ago
It's not clear what you are asking. "The road sign tells me to stop here" does sound weird, because road signs don't address individuals. But the structure is fine: "My Spidey sense tells me to stop here" is fine. "A little voice in my head tells me to stop here" is fine. But traffic signs are more generally addressed; they say to stop here. The issue isn't grammar; it is usage.
– remarkl
9 hours ago
I'm sorry I didn't make myself understood clearly. I agree. No road signs would tell you to do anything. I wasn't talking about the writing on the sign itself. Thank you for your kind advice again.
– Choe Guevara
8 hours ago
I guess I was curious to know if the say + to infinitive structure makes sense because, as you know, even native English speakers are sometimes divided over whether a particular usage is acceptable, and, if it does, how it's used.
– Choe Guevara
8 hours ago