Examples of non trivial equivalence relations , I mean equivalence relations without the expression “ same...












3












$begingroup$


Relations defined by formulas such as " x has the same age as y" , " x comes from the same country as y " " a has the same image under function f as b " are obviously equivalence relations, due to the presence of the expression " same ... as".



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that do not contain this " same ... as" expression and , consequently, that cannot immediately be recognized as equivalence relations?



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that , at first sight, for someone who reads their defining formula for the first time, do not at all look like equivalence relations?



What I am looking for is relations such as



" a is congruent to b ( modulo n) iff n divides a-b"



in which one does not see any " same ... as" .










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Given a set, I can partition it into equivalence classes in any way I like, and this will define an equivalence relation. There is no need for a "same as" property.
    $endgroup$
    – TonyK
    1 hour ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Ultimately, "$x$ is in the same $R$-equivalence class as $y$" is always possible
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    1 hour ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What about $xoperatorname Ry$ iff $f(y)^2=f(0)f(2x)$ for some non-constant global solution $fcolon Bbb RtoBbb R$ of the differential equation $f'(x)=f(x)$?
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    1 hour ago








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But the intuitive ground of an "equivalence relation" is exactly the fact that different objects have some feature in common between them; thus, different objects are equivalent with respect to that feature exactly when the "value" of that feature is the same.
    $endgroup$
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The relationship between subsets of $mathbb R$ where $A sim B$ if and only if their symmetric difference is a null set is an interesting example of a relation which isn't quite trivial and not easily reduced to being in the same preimage of a point under some function.
    $endgroup$
    – John Coleman
    56 mins ago
















3












$begingroup$


Relations defined by formulas such as " x has the same age as y" , " x comes from the same country as y " " a has the same image under function f as b " are obviously equivalence relations, due to the presence of the expression " same ... as".



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that do not contain this " same ... as" expression and , consequently, that cannot immediately be recognized as equivalence relations?



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that , at first sight, for someone who reads their defining formula for the first time, do not at all look like equivalence relations?



What I am looking for is relations such as



" a is congruent to b ( modulo n) iff n divides a-b"



in which one does not see any " same ... as" .










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Given a set, I can partition it into equivalence classes in any way I like, and this will define an equivalence relation. There is no need for a "same as" property.
    $endgroup$
    – TonyK
    1 hour ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Ultimately, "$x$ is in the same $R$-equivalence class as $y$" is always possible
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    1 hour ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What about $xoperatorname Ry$ iff $f(y)^2=f(0)f(2x)$ for some non-constant global solution $fcolon Bbb RtoBbb R$ of the differential equation $f'(x)=f(x)$?
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    1 hour ago








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But the intuitive ground of an "equivalence relation" is exactly the fact that different objects have some feature in common between them; thus, different objects are equivalent with respect to that feature exactly when the "value" of that feature is the same.
    $endgroup$
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The relationship between subsets of $mathbb R$ where $A sim B$ if and only if their symmetric difference is a null set is an interesting example of a relation which isn't quite trivial and not easily reduced to being in the same preimage of a point under some function.
    $endgroup$
    – John Coleman
    56 mins ago














3












3








3





$begingroup$


Relations defined by formulas such as " x has the same age as y" , " x comes from the same country as y " " a has the same image under function f as b " are obviously equivalence relations, due to the presence of the expression " same ... as".



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that do not contain this " same ... as" expression and , consequently, that cannot immediately be recognized as equivalence relations?



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that , at first sight, for someone who reads their defining formula for the first time, do not at all look like equivalence relations?



What I am looking for is relations such as



" a is congruent to b ( modulo n) iff n divides a-b"



in which one does not see any " same ... as" .










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Relations defined by formulas such as " x has the same age as y" , " x comes from the same country as y " " a has the same image under function f as b " are obviously equivalence relations, due to the presence of the expression " same ... as".



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that do not contain this " same ... as" expression and , consequently, that cannot immediately be recognized as equivalence relations?



Are there many examples of equivalence relations that , at first sight, for someone who reads their defining formula for the first time, do not at all look like equivalence relations?



What I am looking for is relations such as



" a is congruent to b ( modulo n) iff n divides a-b"



in which one does not see any " same ... as" .







elementary-set-theory






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited 55 mins ago







Eleonore Saint James

















asked 2 hours ago









Eleonore Saint JamesEleonore Saint James

697115




697115








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Given a set, I can partition it into equivalence classes in any way I like, and this will define an equivalence relation. There is no need for a "same as" property.
    $endgroup$
    – TonyK
    1 hour ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Ultimately, "$x$ is in the same $R$-equivalence class as $y$" is always possible
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    1 hour ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What about $xoperatorname Ry$ iff $f(y)^2=f(0)f(2x)$ for some non-constant global solution $fcolon Bbb RtoBbb R$ of the differential equation $f'(x)=f(x)$?
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    1 hour ago








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But the intuitive ground of an "equivalence relation" is exactly the fact that different objects have some feature in common between them; thus, different objects are equivalent with respect to that feature exactly when the "value" of that feature is the same.
    $endgroup$
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The relationship between subsets of $mathbb R$ where $A sim B$ if and only if their symmetric difference is a null set is an interesting example of a relation which isn't quite trivial and not easily reduced to being in the same preimage of a point under some function.
    $endgroup$
    – John Coleman
    56 mins ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Given a set, I can partition it into equivalence classes in any way I like, and this will define an equivalence relation. There is no need for a "same as" property.
    $endgroup$
    – TonyK
    1 hour ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Ultimately, "$x$ is in the same $R$-equivalence class as $y$" is always possible
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    1 hour ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    What about $xoperatorname Ry$ iff $f(y)^2=f(0)f(2x)$ for some non-constant global solution $fcolon Bbb RtoBbb R$ of the differential equation $f'(x)=f(x)$?
    $endgroup$
    – Hagen von Eitzen
    1 hour ago








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    But the intuitive ground of an "equivalence relation" is exactly the fact that different objects have some feature in common between them; thus, different objects are equivalent with respect to that feature exactly when the "value" of that feature is the same.
    $endgroup$
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The relationship between subsets of $mathbb R$ where $A sim B$ if and only if their symmetric difference is a null set is an interesting example of a relation which isn't quite trivial and not easily reduced to being in the same preimage of a point under some function.
    $endgroup$
    – John Coleman
    56 mins ago








1




1




$begingroup$
Given a set, I can partition it into equivalence classes in any way I like, and this will define an equivalence relation. There is no need for a "same as" property.
$endgroup$
– TonyK
1 hour ago






$begingroup$
Given a set, I can partition it into equivalence classes in any way I like, and this will define an equivalence relation. There is no need for a "same as" property.
$endgroup$
– TonyK
1 hour ago






1




1




$begingroup$
Ultimately, "$x$ is in the same $R$-equivalence class as $y$" is always possible
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
Ultimately, "$x$ is in the same $R$-equivalence class as $y$" is always possible
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
1 hour ago




2




2




$begingroup$
What about $xoperatorname Ry$ iff $f(y)^2=f(0)f(2x)$ for some non-constant global solution $fcolon Bbb RtoBbb R$ of the differential equation $f'(x)=f(x)$?
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
1 hour ago






$begingroup$
What about $xoperatorname Ry$ iff $f(y)^2=f(0)f(2x)$ for some non-constant global solution $fcolon Bbb RtoBbb R$ of the differential equation $f'(x)=f(x)$?
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
1 hour ago






2




2




$begingroup$
But the intuitive ground of an "equivalence relation" is exactly the fact that different objects have some feature in common between them; thus, different objects are equivalent with respect to that feature exactly when the "value" of that feature is the same.
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
But the intuitive ground of an "equivalence relation" is exactly the fact that different objects have some feature in common between them; thus, different objects are equivalent with respect to that feature exactly when the "value" of that feature is the same.
$endgroup$
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
1 hour ago




1




1




$begingroup$
The relationship between subsets of $mathbb R$ where $A sim B$ if and only if their symmetric difference is a null set is an interesting example of a relation which isn't quite trivial and not easily reduced to being in the same preimage of a point under some function.
$endgroup$
– John Coleman
56 mins ago




$begingroup$
The relationship between subsets of $mathbb R$ where $A sim B$ if and only if their symmetric difference is a null set is an interesting example of a relation which isn't quite trivial and not easily reduced to being in the same preimage of a point under some function.
$endgroup$
– John Coleman
56 mins ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

In $mathbb R$, consider the binary relation $R$ defined by $xmathrel Ry$ if and only if $lvert x-yrvert<1$. It is easy to see that it is not an equivalence relation. But it is an equivalence relation if we restrict to $mathbb Z$.



Of course, you can say that it is an equivalence relation on $mathbb Z$ because then $xmathrel Ryiff x=y$. But you can't avoid something like that: given any set $A$ and any binary relation $R$ defined on $A$, $R$ is an equivalence relation if and only if there is a function $f$ from $A$ into some set $S$ such that$$(forall a,bin A):amathrel Rbiff f(a)=f(b).tag1$$In fact, if there is such a function $f$, then it is clear from $(1)$ that $R$ is an equivalence relation. And if $R$ is an equivalence relation, then let $S={text{equivalence classes of }R}$ and define$$begin{array}{rccc}fcolon&A&longrightarrow&S\&a&mapsto&text{equivalence class of }a.end{array}$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    @JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    1 hour ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    I've already done it.
    $endgroup$
    – José Carlos Santos
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
    $endgroup$
    – Eleonore Saint James
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
    $endgroup$
    – Ethan Bolker
    48 mins ago



















4












$begingroup$

As it as been remarked : when you say "same as", for example with "x' has the same age as x" is like saying "a(x')=a(x)" ; otherwise said, $x'$ and $x$ are in the same pre-image $a^{-1}(...)$, for example $a^{-1}(21)$ if both $x$ and $x'$ are 21. There are "as many" equivalence classes as there exists pre-images.



In a reverse way, if you have an equivalence relation on a certain set $S$, it determines a partition of $S$ with cardinal $C$ ("number of classes" with possibly a generalized meaning). You will always be able to build a function $f$ from $S$ to a any set $T$ with cardinality $C$ like ${1,2,...,n}$ or $mathbb{N}$, an interval $[a,b]$, $[a,b)$ of $mathbb{R}$, etc., such that the any equivalence class is mapped onto the same element that we could call a (generalized) "label".



Thus the answer to your question : all equivalence relations can be put into the same "mould" : $x'$ is equivalent to $x$ iff $x'$ has the same "label" as $x$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    +1 for the last sentence.
    $endgroup$
    – Ethan Bolker
    1 hour ago



















1












$begingroup$

A few examples where it doesn't seem easy to find a "has the same _ as" interpretation other than by deriving it from the equivalence relation itself.





  • Let two formulas of the propositional calculus be related if intuitionistic logic proves them to be equivalent.



    (With classical logic this would be the same as "they define the same boolean function", but the situation for intuitionistic logic is not as simple).




  • Let two closed curves in some topological space be related if they are homotopic.



    (They have the same homotopy class, but homotopy classes are themselves defined through this relation).




  • Let two polyhedra be related if one can cut one into a finite number of smaller polyhedra and reassemble them to produce the other.



    (This is actually the same relation as "the two polyhedra have the same volume and the same Dehn invariant", but that is a somewhat deep result).




  • Let two infinite sequences of natural numbers be related if each of them is a subsequence of the other.



    (It feels plausible that one can puzzle out an equivalent characterization with a "has the same _ as" flavor that doesn't feel unnatural, but I wouldn't say it is immediately clear exactly what it would be).




Algebraic quotients are a bit of a corner case. You can define the equivalence relation as "generates the same coset as", but it is usually more natural to think of it as "the difference of the elements is in the chosen kernel".






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    1












    $begingroup$

    There are certainly examples of such non-trivial equivalence relations. For example, in graph theory, let $G$ be an (undirected) graph and define the relation $sim$ on its set of vertices as follows:




    $a sim b$ if and only if $a$ can be reached from $b$ by traversing a finite chain of edges in $G$.




    This is an equivalence relation, as can be easily shown by proving that it is reflexive, symmetric and transitive, but its definition makes no reference to any common property shared by all equivalent vertices.





    Of course, as the other answers have noted, any equivalence relation $sim$ divides its domain into equivalence classes, and it's always possible to recharacterize the relation as "$a sim b$ if and only $a$ and $b$ belong to the same equivalence class." In the particular case above, the equivalence classes even have an established name: they're called the connected components of $G$.



    But taking that characterization as the definition of $sim$ would make no sense, since the equivalence classes are themselves defined by the relation, and so defining the relation by the equivalence classes would be circular!



    As a further demonstration of its non-triviality, it may be worth noting that the relation $sim$ defined above would not necessarily be an equivalence relation if $G$ was a directed graph: in that case, while $sim$ is still clearly reflexive and transitive, it may or may not be symmetric. To actually obtain an equivalence relation in that case, one needs to somehow adjust the definition to force it to be symmetric, e.g. by requiring the existence of a chain of edges in both directions (in which case the equivalence classes thus obtained are the strongly connected components of the graph).






    share|cite









    $endgroup$














      Your Answer








      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "69"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: true,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: 10,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });














      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3204326%2fexamples-of-non-trivial-equivalence-relations-i-mean-equivalence-relations-wit%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      2












      $begingroup$

      In $mathbb R$, consider the binary relation $R$ defined by $xmathrel Ry$ if and only if $lvert x-yrvert<1$. It is easy to see that it is not an equivalence relation. But it is an equivalence relation if we restrict to $mathbb Z$.



      Of course, you can say that it is an equivalence relation on $mathbb Z$ because then $xmathrel Ryiff x=y$. But you can't avoid something like that: given any set $A$ and any binary relation $R$ defined on $A$, $R$ is an equivalence relation if and only if there is a function $f$ from $A$ into some set $S$ such that$$(forall a,bin A):amathrel Rbiff f(a)=f(b).tag1$$In fact, if there is such a function $f$, then it is clear from $(1)$ that $R$ is an equivalence relation. And if $R$ is an equivalence relation, then let $S={text{equivalence classes of }R}$ and define$$begin{array}{rccc}fcolon&A&longrightarrow&S\&a&mapsto&text{equivalence class of }a.end{array}$$






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        @JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
        $endgroup$
        – Eleonore Saint James
        1 hour ago








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
        $endgroup$
        – José Carlos Santos
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        I've already done it.
        $endgroup$
        – José Carlos Santos
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        @JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
        $endgroup$
        – Eleonore Saint James
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
        $endgroup$
        – Ethan Bolker
        48 mins ago
















      2












      $begingroup$

      In $mathbb R$, consider the binary relation $R$ defined by $xmathrel Ry$ if and only if $lvert x-yrvert<1$. It is easy to see that it is not an equivalence relation. But it is an equivalence relation if we restrict to $mathbb Z$.



      Of course, you can say that it is an equivalence relation on $mathbb Z$ because then $xmathrel Ryiff x=y$. But you can't avoid something like that: given any set $A$ and any binary relation $R$ defined on $A$, $R$ is an equivalence relation if and only if there is a function $f$ from $A$ into some set $S$ such that$$(forall a,bin A):amathrel Rbiff f(a)=f(b).tag1$$In fact, if there is such a function $f$, then it is clear from $(1)$ that $R$ is an equivalence relation. And if $R$ is an equivalence relation, then let $S={text{equivalence classes of }R}$ and define$$begin{array}{rccc}fcolon&A&longrightarrow&S\&a&mapsto&text{equivalence class of }a.end{array}$$






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        @JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
        $endgroup$
        – Eleonore Saint James
        1 hour ago








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
        $endgroup$
        – José Carlos Santos
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        I've already done it.
        $endgroup$
        – José Carlos Santos
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        @JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
        $endgroup$
        – Eleonore Saint James
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
        $endgroup$
        – Ethan Bolker
        48 mins ago














      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$

      In $mathbb R$, consider the binary relation $R$ defined by $xmathrel Ry$ if and only if $lvert x-yrvert<1$. It is easy to see that it is not an equivalence relation. But it is an equivalence relation if we restrict to $mathbb Z$.



      Of course, you can say that it is an equivalence relation on $mathbb Z$ because then $xmathrel Ryiff x=y$. But you can't avoid something like that: given any set $A$ and any binary relation $R$ defined on $A$, $R$ is an equivalence relation if and only if there is a function $f$ from $A$ into some set $S$ such that$$(forall a,bin A):amathrel Rbiff f(a)=f(b).tag1$$In fact, if there is such a function $f$, then it is clear from $(1)$ that $R$ is an equivalence relation. And if $R$ is an equivalence relation, then let $S={text{equivalence classes of }R}$ and define$$begin{array}{rccc}fcolon&A&longrightarrow&S\&a&mapsto&text{equivalence class of }a.end{array}$$






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      In $mathbb R$, consider the binary relation $R$ defined by $xmathrel Ry$ if and only if $lvert x-yrvert<1$. It is easy to see that it is not an equivalence relation. But it is an equivalence relation if we restrict to $mathbb Z$.



      Of course, you can say that it is an equivalence relation on $mathbb Z$ because then $xmathrel Ryiff x=y$. But you can't avoid something like that: given any set $A$ and any binary relation $R$ defined on $A$, $R$ is an equivalence relation if and only if there is a function $f$ from $A$ into some set $S$ such that$$(forall a,bin A):amathrel Rbiff f(a)=f(b).tag1$$In fact, if there is such a function $f$, then it is clear from $(1)$ that $R$ is an equivalence relation. And if $R$ is an equivalence relation, then let $S={text{equivalence classes of }R}$ and define$$begin{array}{rccc}fcolon&A&longrightarrow&S\&a&mapsto&text{equivalence class of }a.end{array}$$







      share|cite|improve this answer














      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer








      edited 1 hour ago

























      answered 1 hour ago









      José Carlos SantosJosé Carlos Santos

      178k24139251




      178k24139251












      • $begingroup$
        @JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
        $endgroup$
        – Eleonore Saint James
        1 hour ago








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
        $endgroup$
        – José Carlos Santos
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        I've already done it.
        $endgroup$
        – José Carlos Santos
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        @JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
        $endgroup$
        – Eleonore Saint James
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
        $endgroup$
        – Ethan Bolker
        48 mins ago


















      • $begingroup$
        @JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
        $endgroup$
        – Eleonore Saint James
        1 hour ago








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
        $endgroup$
        – José Carlos Santos
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        I've already done it.
        $endgroup$
        – José Carlos Santos
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        @JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
        $endgroup$
        – Eleonore Saint James
        1 hour ago










      • $begingroup$
        The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
        $endgroup$
        – Ethan Bolker
        48 mins ago
















      $begingroup$
      @JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
      $endgroup$
      – Eleonore Saint James
      1 hour ago






      $begingroup$
      @JoseCalrlosSantos.Thanks. Could you please give a reference in which I could finfd an explanation of this interesting alternative definition of "equivalence relation" in terms of function from A to S.
      $endgroup$
      – Eleonore Saint James
      1 hour ago






      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
      $endgroup$
      – José Carlos Santos
      1 hour ago




      $begingroup$
      I'll add it to my answer. Please wait a few minutes.
      $endgroup$
      – José Carlos Santos
      1 hour ago












      $begingroup$
      I've already done it.
      $endgroup$
      – José Carlos Santos
      1 hour ago




      $begingroup$
      I've already done it.
      $endgroup$
      – José Carlos Santos
      1 hour ago












      $begingroup$
      @JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
      $endgroup$
      – Eleonore Saint James
      1 hour ago




      $begingroup$
      @JoseCarlosSantos.Thanks.
      $endgroup$
      – Eleonore Saint James
      1 hour ago












      $begingroup$
      The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
      $endgroup$
      – Ethan Bolker
      48 mins ago




      $begingroup$
      The equivalence relation that comes from a surjection $f$ still has the "as same as" form: $a$ is equivalent to $b$ just when $f(a)$ is the same as $f(b)$. As @AnneMarie says, there's no escaping that.
      $endgroup$
      – Ethan Bolker
      48 mins ago











      4












      $begingroup$

      As it as been remarked : when you say "same as", for example with "x' has the same age as x" is like saying "a(x')=a(x)" ; otherwise said, $x'$ and $x$ are in the same pre-image $a^{-1}(...)$, for example $a^{-1}(21)$ if both $x$ and $x'$ are 21. There are "as many" equivalence classes as there exists pre-images.



      In a reverse way, if you have an equivalence relation on a certain set $S$, it determines a partition of $S$ with cardinal $C$ ("number of classes" with possibly a generalized meaning). You will always be able to build a function $f$ from $S$ to a any set $T$ with cardinality $C$ like ${1,2,...,n}$ or $mathbb{N}$, an interval $[a,b]$, $[a,b)$ of $mathbb{R}$, etc., such that the any equivalence class is mapped onto the same element that we could call a (generalized) "label".



      Thus the answer to your question : all equivalence relations can be put into the same "mould" : $x'$ is equivalent to $x$ iff $x'$ has the same "label" as $x$.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$









      • 1




        $begingroup$
        +1 for the last sentence.
        $endgroup$
        – Ethan Bolker
        1 hour ago
















      4












      $begingroup$

      As it as been remarked : when you say "same as", for example with "x' has the same age as x" is like saying "a(x')=a(x)" ; otherwise said, $x'$ and $x$ are in the same pre-image $a^{-1}(...)$, for example $a^{-1}(21)$ if both $x$ and $x'$ are 21. There are "as many" equivalence classes as there exists pre-images.



      In a reverse way, if you have an equivalence relation on a certain set $S$, it determines a partition of $S$ with cardinal $C$ ("number of classes" with possibly a generalized meaning). You will always be able to build a function $f$ from $S$ to a any set $T$ with cardinality $C$ like ${1,2,...,n}$ or $mathbb{N}$, an interval $[a,b]$, $[a,b)$ of $mathbb{R}$, etc., such that the any equivalence class is mapped onto the same element that we could call a (generalized) "label".



      Thus the answer to your question : all equivalence relations can be put into the same "mould" : $x'$ is equivalent to $x$ iff $x'$ has the same "label" as $x$.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$









      • 1




        $begingroup$
        +1 for the last sentence.
        $endgroup$
        – Ethan Bolker
        1 hour ago














      4












      4








      4





      $begingroup$

      As it as been remarked : when you say "same as", for example with "x' has the same age as x" is like saying "a(x')=a(x)" ; otherwise said, $x'$ and $x$ are in the same pre-image $a^{-1}(...)$, for example $a^{-1}(21)$ if both $x$ and $x'$ are 21. There are "as many" equivalence classes as there exists pre-images.



      In a reverse way, if you have an equivalence relation on a certain set $S$, it determines a partition of $S$ with cardinal $C$ ("number of classes" with possibly a generalized meaning). You will always be able to build a function $f$ from $S$ to a any set $T$ with cardinality $C$ like ${1,2,...,n}$ or $mathbb{N}$, an interval $[a,b]$, $[a,b)$ of $mathbb{R}$, etc., such that the any equivalence class is mapped onto the same element that we could call a (generalized) "label".



      Thus the answer to your question : all equivalence relations can be put into the same "mould" : $x'$ is equivalent to $x$ iff $x'$ has the same "label" as $x$.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$



      As it as been remarked : when you say "same as", for example with "x' has the same age as x" is like saying "a(x')=a(x)" ; otherwise said, $x'$ and $x$ are in the same pre-image $a^{-1}(...)$, for example $a^{-1}(21)$ if both $x$ and $x'$ are 21. There are "as many" equivalence classes as there exists pre-images.



      In a reverse way, if you have an equivalence relation on a certain set $S$, it determines a partition of $S$ with cardinal $C$ ("number of classes" with possibly a generalized meaning). You will always be able to build a function $f$ from $S$ to a any set $T$ with cardinality $C$ like ${1,2,...,n}$ or $mathbb{N}$, an interval $[a,b]$, $[a,b)$ of $mathbb{R}$, etc., such that the any equivalence class is mapped onto the same element that we could call a (generalized) "label".



      Thus the answer to your question : all equivalence relations can be put into the same "mould" : $x'$ is equivalent to $x$ iff $x'$ has the same "label" as $x$.







      share|cite|improve this answer












      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer










      answered 1 hour ago









      Jean MarieJean Marie

      31.7k42355




      31.7k42355








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        +1 for the last sentence.
        $endgroup$
        – Ethan Bolker
        1 hour ago














      • 1




        $begingroup$
        +1 for the last sentence.
        $endgroup$
        – Ethan Bolker
        1 hour ago








      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      +1 for the last sentence.
      $endgroup$
      – Ethan Bolker
      1 hour ago




      $begingroup$
      +1 for the last sentence.
      $endgroup$
      – Ethan Bolker
      1 hour ago











      1












      $begingroup$

      A few examples where it doesn't seem easy to find a "has the same _ as" interpretation other than by deriving it from the equivalence relation itself.





      • Let two formulas of the propositional calculus be related if intuitionistic logic proves them to be equivalent.



        (With classical logic this would be the same as "they define the same boolean function", but the situation for intuitionistic logic is not as simple).




      • Let two closed curves in some topological space be related if they are homotopic.



        (They have the same homotopy class, but homotopy classes are themselves defined through this relation).




      • Let two polyhedra be related if one can cut one into a finite number of smaller polyhedra and reassemble them to produce the other.



        (This is actually the same relation as "the two polyhedra have the same volume and the same Dehn invariant", but that is a somewhat deep result).




      • Let two infinite sequences of natural numbers be related if each of them is a subsequence of the other.



        (It feels plausible that one can puzzle out an equivalent characterization with a "has the same _ as" flavor that doesn't feel unnatural, but I wouldn't say it is immediately clear exactly what it would be).




      Algebraic quotients are a bit of a corner case. You can define the equivalence relation as "generates the same coset as", but it is usually more natural to think of it as "the difference of the elements is in the chosen kernel".






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$


















        1












        $begingroup$

        A few examples where it doesn't seem easy to find a "has the same _ as" interpretation other than by deriving it from the equivalence relation itself.





        • Let two formulas of the propositional calculus be related if intuitionistic logic proves them to be equivalent.



          (With classical logic this would be the same as "they define the same boolean function", but the situation for intuitionistic logic is not as simple).




        • Let two closed curves in some topological space be related if they are homotopic.



          (They have the same homotopy class, but homotopy classes are themselves defined through this relation).




        • Let two polyhedra be related if one can cut one into a finite number of smaller polyhedra and reassemble them to produce the other.



          (This is actually the same relation as "the two polyhedra have the same volume and the same Dehn invariant", but that is a somewhat deep result).




        • Let two infinite sequences of natural numbers be related if each of them is a subsequence of the other.



          (It feels plausible that one can puzzle out an equivalent characterization with a "has the same _ as" flavor that doesn't feel unnatural, but I wouldn't say it is immediately clear exactly what it would be).




        Algebraic quotients are a bit of a corner case. You can define the equivalence relation as "generates the same coset as", but it is usually more natural to think of it as "the difference of the elements is in the chosen kernel".






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$
















          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          A few examples where it doesn't seem easy to find a "has the same _ as" interpretation other than by deriving it from the equivalence relation itself.





          • Let two formulas of the propositional calculus be related if intuitionistic logic proves them to be equivalent.



            (With classical logic this would be the same as "they define the same boolean function", but the situation for intuitionistic logic is not as simple).




          • Let two closed curves in some topological space be related if they are homotopic.



            (They have the same homotopy class, but homotopy classes are themselves defined through this relation).




          • Let two polyhedra be related if one can cut one into a finite number of smaller polyhedra and reassemble them to produce the other.



            (This is actually the same relation as "the two polyhedra have the same volume and the same Dehn invariant", but that is a somewhat deep result).




          • Let two infinite sequences of natural numbers be related if each of them is a subsequence of the other.



            (It feels plausible that one can puzzle out an equivalent characterization with a "has the same _ as" flavor that doesn't feel unnatural, but I wouldn't say it is immediately clear exactly what it would be).




          Algebraic quotients are a bit of a corner case. You can define the equivalence relation as "generates the same coset as", but it is usually more natural to think of it as "the difference of the elements is in the chosen kernel".






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          A few examples where it doesn't seem easy to find a "has the same _ as" interpretation other than by deriving it from the equivalence relation itself.





          • Let two formulas of the propositional calculus be related if intuitionistic logic proves them to be equivalent.



            (With classical logic this would be the same as "they define the same boolean function", but the situation for intuitionistic logic is not as simple).




          • Let two closed curves in some topological space be related if they are homotopic.



            (They have the same homotopy class, but homotopy classes are themselves defined through this relation).




          • Let two polyhedra be related if one can cut one into a finite number of smaller polyhedra and reassemble them to produce the other.



            (This is actually the same relation as "the two polyhedra have the same volume and the same Dehn invariant", but that is a somewhat deep result).




          • Let two infinite sequences of natural numbers be related if each of them is a subsequence of the other.



            (It feels plausible that one can puzzle out an equivalent characterization with a "has the same _ as" flavor that doesn't feel unnatural, but I wouldn't say it is immediately clear exactly what it would be).




          Algebraic quotients are a bit of a corner case. You can define the equivalence relation as "generates the same coset as", but it is usually more natural to think of it as "the difference of the elements is in the chosen kernel".







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited 6 mins ago

























          answered 12 mins ago









          Henning MakholmHenning Makholm

          244k17313557




          244k17313557























              1












              $begingroup$

              There are certainly examples of such non-trivial equivalence relations. For example, in graph theory, let $G$ be an (undirected) graph and define the relation $sim$ on its set of vertices as follows:




              $a sim b$ if and only if $a$ can be reached from $b$ by traversing a finite chain of edges in $G$.




              This is an equivalence relation, as can be easily shown by proving that it is reflexive, symmetric and transitive, but its definition makes no reference to any common property shared by all equivalent vertices.





              Of course, as the other answers have noted, any equivalence relation $sim$ divides its domain into equivalence classes, and it's always possible to recharacterize the relation as "$a sim b$ if and only $a$ and $b$ belong to the same equivalence class." In the particular case above, the equivalence classes even have an established name: they're called the connected components of $G$.



              But taking that characterization as the definition of $sim$ would make no sense, since the equivalence classes are themselves defined by the relation, and so defining the relation by the equivalence classes would be circular!



              As a further demonstration of its non-triviality, it may be worth noting that the relation $sim$ defined above would not necessarily be an equivalence relation if $G$ was a directed graph: in that case, while $sim$ is still clearly reflexive and transitive, it may or may not be symmetric. To actually obtain an equivalence relation in that case, one needs to somehow adjust the definition to force it to be symmetric, e.g. by requiring the existence of a chain of edges in both directions (in which case the equivalence classes thus obtained are the strongly connected components of the graph).






              share|cite









              $endgroup$


















                1












                $begingroup$

                There are certainly examples of such non-trivial equivalence relations. For example, in graph theory, let $G$ be an (undirected) graph and define the relation $sim$ on its set of vertices as follows:




                $a sim b$ if and only if $a$ can be reached from $b$ by traversing a finite chain of edges in $G$.




                This is an equivalence relation, as can be easily shown by proving that it is reflexive, symmetric and transitive, but its definition makes no reference to any common property shared by all equivalent vertices.





                Of course, as the other answers have noted, any equivalence relation $sim$ divides its domain into equivalence classes, and it's always possible to recharacterize the relation as "$a sim b$ if and only $a$ and $b$ belong to the same equivalence class." In the particular case above, the equivalence classes even have an established name: they're called the connected components of $G$.



                But taking that characterization as the definition of $sim$ would make no sense, since the equivalence classes are themselves defined by the relation, and so defining the relation by the equivalence classes would be circular!



                As a further demonstration of its non-triviality, it may be worth noting that the relation $sim$ defined above would not necessarily be an equivalence relation if $G$ was a directed graph: in that case, while $sim$ is still clearly reflexive and transitive, it may or may not be symmetric. To actually obtain an equivalence relation in that case, one needs to somehow adjust the definition to force it to be symmetric, e.g. by requiring the existence of a chain of edges in both directions (in which case the equivalence classes thus obtained are the strongly connected components of the graph).






                share|cite









                $endgroup$
















                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  There are certainly examples of such non-trivial equivalence relations. For example, in graph theory, let $G$ be an (undirected) graph and define the relation $sim$ on its set of vertices as follows:




                  $a sim b$ if and only if $a$ can be reached from $b$ by traversing a finite chain of edges in $G$.




                  This is an equivalence relation, as can be easily shown by proving that it is reflexive, symmetric and transitive, but its definition makes no reference to any common property shared by all equivalent vertices.





                  Of course, as the other answers have noted, any equivalence relation $sim$ divides its domain into equivalence classes, and it's always possible to recharacterize the relation as "$a sim b$ if and only $a$ and $b$ belong to the same equivalence class." In the particular case above, the equivalence classes even have an established name: they're called the connected components of $G$.



                  But taking that characterization as the definition of $sim$ would make no sense, since the equivalence classes are themselves defined by the relation, and so defining the relation by the equivalence classes would be circular!



                  As a further demonstration of its non-triviality, it may be worth noting that the relation $sim$ defined above would not necessarily be an equivalence relation if $G$ was a directed graph: in that case, while $sim$ is still clearly reflexive and transitive, it may or may not be symmetric. To actually obtain an equivalence relation in that case, one needs to somehow adjust the definition to force it to be symmetric, e.g. by requiring the existence of a chain of edges in both directions (in which case the equivalence classes thus obtained are the strongly connected components of the graph).






                  share|cite









                  $endgroup$



                  There are certainly examples of such non-trivial equivalence relations. For example, in graph theory, let $G$ be an (undirected) graph and define the relation $sim$ on its set of vertices as follows:




                  $a sim b$ if and only if $a$ can be reached from $b$ by traversing a finite chain of edges in $G$.




                  This is an equivalence relation, as can be easily shown by proving that it is reflexive, symmetric and transitive, but its definition makes no reference to any common property shared by all equivalent vertices.





                  Of course, as the other answers have noted, any equivalence relation $sim$ divides its domain into equivalence classes, and it's always possible to recharacterize the relation as "$a sim b$ if and only $a$ and $b$ belong to the same equivalence class." In the particular case above, the equivalence classes even have an established name: they're called the connected components of $G$.



                  But taking that characterization as the definition of $sim$ would make no sense, since the equivalence classes are themselves defined by the relation, and so defining the relation by the equivalence classes would be circular!



                  As a further demonstration of its non-triviality, it may be worth noting that the relation $sim$ defined above would not necessarily be an equivalence relation if $G$ was a directed graph: in that case, while $sim$ is still clearly reflexive and transitive, it may or may not be symmetric. To actually obtain an equivalence relation in that case, one needs to somehow adjust the definition to force it to be symmetric, e.g. by requiring the existence of a chain of edges in both directions (in which case the equivalence classes thus obtained are the strongly connected components of the graph).







                  share|cite












                  share|cite



                  share|cite










                  answered 3 mins ago









                  Ilmari KaronenIlmari Karonen

                  20.2k25286




                  20.2k25286






























                      draft saved

                      draft discarded




















































                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3204326%2fexamples-of-non-trivial-equivalence-relations-i-mean-equivalence-relations-wit%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      Popular posts from this blog

                      Category:香港粉麵

                      List *all* the tuples!

                      Channel [V]