Why did Lincoln wait to issue the Emancipation Proclamation?
(Apologies in advance: not being American, while I've read up somewhat about the military aspects of the Civil War, I am somewhat unclear as to its political dimension.)
Lincoln did not declare the slaves free until 1863, despite his personal beliefs.
Did he wait because he was not sure of the political support in the North for accepting Abolition as a war aim, along with stopping Secession? Or did he wait to preserve the possibility of negotiations with the Confederacy? If it was the second reason, is there any indication of what he was willing to compromise on? If the first, what changed?
Yes, I've seen What is the context of Lincoln saying: "if I could save the union without freeing any slave I would do it" but it doesn't tell me why he waited and what got him to commit to abolition.
american-civil-war
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show 2 more comments
(Apologies in advance: not being American, while I've read up somewhat about the military aspects of the Civil War, I am somewhat unclear as to its political dimension.)
Lincoln did not declare the slaves free until 1863, despite his personal beliefs.
Did he wait because he was not sure of the political support in the North for accepting Abolition as a war aim, along with stopping Secession? Or did he wait to preserve the possibility of negotiations with the Confederacy? If it was the second reason, is there any indication of what he was willing to compromise on? If the first, what changed?
Yes, I've seen What is the context of Lincoln saying: "if I could save the union without freeing any slave I would do it" but it doesn't tell me why he waited and what got him to commit to abolition.
american-civil-war
26
Lincoln didn't actually have the power to free slaves. Basically, what he did was declare any slaves in the states in rebellion, as with other property, spoils of war (booty), thus declaring ownership of those slaves for the federal government, and then they could be freed. That did nothing for the slaves that were in the states not in rebellion. It took an amendment to the Constitution to actually end slavery, and that didn't happen until after the war.
– Ron Maupin
2 days ago
3
The movie Lincoln is worth watching. In it, President Lincoln admits that the Emancipation Proclamation was based on tortured logic that would never stand up to judicial review, and was mostly only good as a symbolic gesture to throw a wrench in the gears of the Confederacy, which is why they needed a Constitutional amendment to actually free the slaves and make it work.
– Mason Wheeler
2 days ago
3
@RonMaupin: That should be an answer.
– Ben Crowell
2 days ago
1
@BenCrowell, it doesn't directly answer the question about the timing, which is why I put it as a comment. I thought it was good auxiliary information, but the question is actually different.
– Ron Maupin
2 days ago
7
@MasonWheeler: That's a great movie, but it's not completely historically accurate. The fact that the "President Lincoln" character "admits" something in that movie does not necessarily mean that the real President Lincoln admitted it, or would have admitted it, or believed it.
– ruakh
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
(Apologies in advance: not being American, while I've read up somewhat about the military aspects of the Civil War, I am somewhat unclear as to its political dimension.)
Lincoln did not declare the slaves free until 1863, despite his personal beliefs.
Did he wait because he was not sure of the political support in the North for accepting Abolition as a war aim, along with stopping Secession? Or did he wait to preserve the possibility of negotiations with the Confederacy? If it was the second reason, is there any indication of what he was willing to compromise on? If the first, what changed?
Yes, I've seen What is the context of Lincoln saying: "if I could save the union without freeing any slave I would do it" but it doesn't tell me why he waited and what got him to commit to abolition.
american-civil-war
(Apologies in advance: not being American, while I've read up somewhat about the military aspects of the Civil War, I am somewhat unclear as to its political dimension.)
Lincoln did not declare the slaves free until 1863, despite his personal beliefs.
Did he wait because he was not sure of the political support in the North for accepting Abolition as a war aim, along with stopping Secession? Or did he wait to preserve the possibility of negotiations with the Confederacy? If it was the second reason, is there any indication of what he was willing to compromise on? If the first, what changed?
Yes, I've seen What is the context of Lincoln saying: "if I could save the union without freeing any slave I would do it" but it doesn't tell me why he waited and what got him to commit to abolition.
american-civil-war
american-civil-war
edited 28 mins ago
Italian Philosopher
asked Jan 16 at 0:21
Italian PhilosopherItalian Philosopher
835513
835513
26
Lincoln didn't actually have the power to free slaves. Basically, what he did was declare any slaves in the states in rebellion, as with other property, spoils of war (booty), thus declaring ownership of those slaves for the federal government, and then they could be freed. That did nothing for the slaves that were in the states not in rebellion. It took an amendment to the Constitution to actually end slavery, and that didn't happen until after the war.
– Ron Maupin
2 days ago
3
The movie Lincoln is worth watching. In it, President Lincoln admits that the Emancipation Proclamation was based on tortured logic that would never stand up to judicial review, and was mostly only good as a symbolic gesture to throw a wrench in the gears of the Confederacy, which is why they needed a Constitutional amendment to actually free the slaves and make it work.
– Mason Wheeler
2 days ago
3
@RonMaupin: That should be an answer.
– Ben Crowell
2 days ago
1
@BenCrowell, it doesn't directly answer the question about the timing, which is why I put it as a comment. I thought it was good auxiliary information, but the question is actually different.
– Ron Maupin
2 days ago
7
@MasonWheeler: That's a great movie, but it's not completely historically accurate. The fact that the "President Lincoln" character "admits" something in that movie does not necessarily mean that the real President Lincoln admitted it, or would have admitted it, or believed it.
– ruakh
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
26
Lincoln didn't actually have the power to free slaves. Basically, what he did was declare any slaves in the states in rebellion, as with other property, spoils of war (booty), thus declaring ownership of those slaves for the federal government, and then they could be freed. That did nothing for the slaves that were in the states not in rebellion. It took an amendment to the Constitution to actually end slavery, and that didn't happen until after the war.
– Ron Maupin
2 days ago
3
The movie Lincoln is worth watching. In it, President Lincoln admits that the Emancipation Proclamation was based on tortured logic that would never stand up to judicial review, and was mostly only good as a symbolic gesture to throw a wrench in the gears of the Confederacy, which is why they needed a Constitutional amendment to actually free the slaves and make it work.
– Mason Wheeler
2 days ago
3
@RonMaupin: That should be an answer.
– Ben Crowell
2 days ago
1
@BenCrowell, it doesn't directly answer the question about the timing, which is why I put it as a comment. I thought it was good auxiliary information, but the question is actually different.
– Ron Maupin
2 days ago
7
@MasonWheeler: That's a great movie, but it's not completely historically accurate. The fact that the "President Lincoln" character "admits" something in that movie does not necessarily mean that the real President Lincoln admitted it, or would have admitted it, or believed it.
– ruakh
2 days ago
26
26
Lincoln didn't actually have the power to free slaves. Basically, what he did was declare any slaves in the states in rebellion, as with other property, spoils of war (booty), thus declaring ownership of those slaves for the federal government, and then they could be freed. That did nothing for the slaves that were in the states not in rebellion. It took an amendment to the Constitution to actually end slavery, and that didn't happen until after the war.
– Ron Maupin
2 days ago
Lincoln didn't actually have the power to free slaves. Basically, what he did was declare any slaves in the states in rebellion, as with other property, spoils of war (booty), thus declaring ownership of those slaves for the federal government, and then they could be freed. That did nothing for the slaves that were in the states not in rebellion. It took an amendment to the Constitution to actually end slavery, and that didn't happen until after the war.
– Ron Maupin
2 days ago
3
3
The movie Lincoln is worth watching. In it, President Lincoln admits that the Emancipation Proclamation was based on tortured logic that would never stand up to judicial review, and was mostly only good as a symbolic gesture to throw a wrench in the gears of the Confederacy, which is why they needed a Constitutional amendment to actually free the slaves and make it work.
– Mason Wheeler
2 days ago
The movie Lincoln is worth watching. In it, President Lincoln admits that the Emancipation Proclamation was based on tortured logic that would never stand up to judicial review, and was mostly only good as a symbolic gesture to throw a wrench in the gears of the Confederacy, which is why they needed a Constitutional amendment to actually free the slaves and make it work.
– Mason Wheeler
2 days ago
3
3
@RonMaupin: That should be an answer.
– Ben Crowell
2 days ago
@RonMaupin: That should be an answer.
– Ben Crowell
2 days ago
1
1
@BenCrowell, it doesn't directly answer the question about the timing, which is why I put it as a comment. I thought it was good auxiliary information, but the question is actually different.
– Ron Maupin
2 days ago
@BenCrowell, it doesn't directly answer the question about the timing, which is why I put it as a comment. I thought it was good auxiliary information, but the question is actually different.
– Ron Maupin
2 days ago
7
7
@MasonWheeler: That's a great movie, but it's not completely historically accurate. The fact that the "President Lincoln" character "admits" something in that movie does not necessarily mean that the real President Lincoln admitted it, or would have admitted it, or believed it.
– ruakh
2 days ago
@MasonWheeler: That's a great movie, but it's not completely historically accurate. The fact that the "President Lincoln" character "admits" something in that movie does not necessarily mean that the real President Lincoln admitted it, or would have admitted it, or believed it.
– ruakh
2 days ago
|
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8 Answers
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oldest
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@Peter Diehr's answer is a good one and I've upvoted it - but I'd like to expand on that, remembering that Lincoln was a very good strategist.
First, The Civil War was about slavery, and the South's (correct) understanding was that the North was growing faster than it was and free states would sooner or later substantially outnumber slave states. (Some of the nominally slave states allowed slavery, but were not economically dependent on it as were the Deep South states. Sentiment for abolition was growing in those states, also. Slavery was doomed under the Union.)
If the South did nothing, they lost in maybe twenty years when the North would have the political power to abolish slavery. They had to secede when they did.
Lincoln, on the other hand, had history on his side. If he could hold the Union together, then slavery was doomed. Until the war was beyond settlement, his best bet to abolish slavery was to try to keep the Union together. So in the early days he insisted his only purpose was to hold the Union together.
Secondly, the Union included several border states which allowed slavery, but where it wasn't the bedrock of the economy. To have a decent chance of winning the war militarily, the North had to hold on to those states. So even the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free the slaves in Union states! Key point: For the Emancipation Proclamation to have effect anywhere it needed to not push the slave states still in the Union into rebellion. So it had to exempt them.
And then thirdly, as Peter says, once Lincoln had a strong Union victory he could start pushing explicitly on ending slavery. Once the North (and foreign countries, especially Great Britain) saw that the Union would end slavery and had to power to do it its moral authority was immeasurably strengthened which sped the end of the war.
2
"The Civil War was about slavery". You should edit this to note that it was not the only reason.
– Infiltrator
yesterday
When I asked my question about this many people seemed to agree that the reason for the proclamation was to turn the war from a war of secession to a moral war about slavery, effectively ending the chance of the Confederacy to receive help from say France or Great Britain. I don't know what to make of the fact that many people say Lincoln was waging a moral crusade against slavery. He mentioned in his inaugural address just before the civil war that he had no intention to interfere with the practice or slavery, and admitted he didn't have the power to.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
8
@Infiltrator I think it's in his book Terrible Swift Sword that Bruce Catton quotes both Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis as having publicly said, in the first year of the war, various things which amounted to: "This war is not being fought over ending (or preserving) slavery." Catton then makes it clear he doesn't quite believe either of them; that was something they were saying for political effect. Without slavery, there wouldn't have been a Civil War at all, and the ramifications of that issue strongly affected everything else that was going on in 1861.
– Lorendiac
21 hours ago
1
@Zebrafish Lincoln wasn't going to end slavery, he was going to weaken it, and set up the next president to weaken it further, and the next... The south saw the march of history away from slavery, and they decided to cut and run rather than see it weaken another iota. Succession was explicitly about slavery. The civil war was about preserving the union: Lincoln would take a union where slavery survived another 5, 10, 20, 30 years over a civil war. But such a union would almost certainly lead to the end of slavery, eventually, or at least both Lincoln and the slave states believed.
– Yakk
15 hours ago
Slavery was a great evil, but so is civil war. No decent person would deliberately choose either if a strategy was available that might end one without triggering the other. Even if it requires fibbing.
– Mark Olson
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Lincoln waited until there was a great union victory; the early losses, and the poor showing of the Union generals did not give him a very firm place to stand and make promises.
Antietam was the victory he was waiting for, and a preliminary declaration was issued at that time.
See this History channel article on the Emancipation Proclamation for further details and analysis.
2
True enough (+1) but one could quibble that Antietam wasn't a "great union victory" since it was tactically a draw in which McClellan failed to destroy Lee's army despite having a dominant position. Still, a draw which left you in a strategically better position was at least a partial victory after a long run of failure.
– John Coleman
2 days ago
3
@JohnColeman - In tactical lingo, the "Victor" of an engagement is the force that holds the field at the end. You could quibble with the "great" part I suppose, but Antietam was objectively a Union victory. (To be fair, The Antietam WP page currently has this wrong in exactly the way you suggest).
– T.E.D.♦
2 days ago
1
@kuhl As I said, it was a quibble. Strategically it was a Union victory, which was enough for Lincoln (though doubtless he would have preferred a more clear-cut victory).
– John Coleman
yesterday
2
To give more data: if you look at the battles fought in 1862 with the goal of finding a decent union victory preceding Antietam, they are hard to find. The best candidates are Fort Donelson, Shiloh, and Pea Ridge. The battles in the east were better covered by the press, and were all fiascos for the Union., except for one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Elizabeth_City
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
2
Also obviously Lincoln knew Antietam wasn't that great a victory, because he got rid of McClellan (who couldn't wipe out Lee in spite of having the intel for all his movements literally handed to him) as soon as he could. it was the best thing at hand, and he didn't know how long he'd have to wait til the next one.
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
|
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While there were plenty of altruistic abolitionists who hated slavery purely on its in-humanity, much of the political drive ($$$) for the war was driven by the fear of the northern factory owners.
Like almost every war, the United States Civil War was not primarily about ideology, it was about economics. The northern, industrialized states were concerned that after several labor saving devices (i.e. cotton gin, steam engine) that the South's excess labor pool and the increasing industrialization of the south would threaten their near monopoly on manufacture. Imagine just one point, cotton; if the south had the raw materials (cotton) and the ability to use slave labor to manufacture the cotton cloth and even cotton clothing. That would put a big dent in the northern factory owners earning stream.
Lincoln's timing for the emancipation proclamation was purely based on the failure of diplomacy to end the war before major conflict (Antietam). It served largely propaganda purposes.
New contributor
Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.
1
Something I want to add to this is that it was pretty clear that slavery was less efficient by the time the civil war was happening. Had the civil war just not happened, slave states would have lost their economic power because the system just couldn't keep up with compete forms of labor. Putting the slaves to work in factories probably wouldn't have helped too much because slaves are just less efficient than paid workers; slaves don't want to be at work so they drag their feet.
– Steve
yesterday
1
This is why the south didn't produce perishable products in their plantations. Slaves would have taken too long to harvest it and most of it would have spoiled in the fields.
– Steve
yesterday
2
More people need to look at economics to understand the civil war. It's not a simple moral matter. Freeing the slaves too early honestly would have just crashed the economy and caused a war anyway. That's why southern reconstructions was so important. Too bad Lincoln got killed at the play.
– Steve
yesterday
For cotton states slave owners raw cotton production was far more profitable than anything else, and it was huge growing demand for raw cotton, domestically and abroad (it constituted vast majority of US export). It is why these cotton states were not producing enough goods for their own needs, and was buying manufacture goods from New England, mules from Kentucky, food from Midwest, slaves from Virginia. And it is why northerners manufacturers were not concerned about South's excess labor pool but mostly about flow of raw cotton supply from South
– Alexander Barhavin
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Because, as Lincoln stated, "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery".
Initially, North expected short victorious war and quick reunification. If this would happened, slavery would be intact. After full year of struggle it became clear that the war is not going to be short, and became questionable if it is going to be victorious.
Lincoln issued Emancipation Proclamation when it became obvious that freeing slaves in rebellion states would help save the Union, and without this action the war could be lost.
Consider following:
Before Lincoln's inauguration, Congress passed constitutional amendment that would shield slavery from the constitutional amendment process and from abolition or interference by Congress (Corwin Amendment). This was attempt to end secession peacefully; Lincoln publicly supported this proposed amendment. It was ratified by few states but did not get required three fourths states to make to Constitution.
As a president, Lincoln did not have an authority to end slavery (to change the Constitution). However, as a commander in chief, during the war he could order to deprive the rebels from their property of military use. On September 22, 1862 Lincoln
announced that all slaves in territory that was still in rebellion as of January 1, 1863, would be free. So it was up to southern states to stop fighting and save their slaves, or continue straggle and risk losing slaves if they loose the war.For Lincoln, ending slavery was another "struggle", which he tried to win (unsuccessfully) by persuasion. He offered compensation to slave states still in Union to end the slavery within these states; they rejected his offer. Before the end of the war Congress passed 13th amendment, abolishing slavery, and these states lost all slaves without any compensation.
BTW, on February 1865, couple of month before Confederacy collapsed, Lincoln offered Confederacy compensation for lost slaves if they agree to stop fighting and return to the Union. Jefferson Davis rejected this proposal, causing thousands unnecessary casualties, humiliating military defeat, and much more painful longer reunification.
add a comment |
Given just how much the economy of the United States was dependent upon slave labour it's perhaps not suprising that Lincoln hesitated, he was not sure that he could carry the House with him and as he said, 'a house divided must fall'.
After all, whilst the American mythos suggested that their war of independence was predicated on no 'taxation without representation', one might ask, were they concerned with the forceful strides that the abolitionist movement was making in Great Britain and perhaps with parliamentary representation they may slow, stall or stop it altogether? Given that a great civil war was fought over this question, it's suprising to me that this question has not been properly investigated, or perhaps if it has, it has not been given much of an airing.
2
There is ample historical evidence to answer these questions; they were concerned with the abolitionist movement, but the South prohibited any discussion of slavery during the formation of the country.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
2 days ago
@MarkC.Wallace: That doesn't make any sense to me. How can you not talk about slavery when you are trading in slaves? Presumably you mean prohibiting any talk of reforming or abolishing the slavery system.
– Mozibur Ullah
yesterday
3
Same thing - the south made it clear that if the topic of slavery were raised in the constitutional convention, the south would walk out, which would mean that thre would be no country. Read the Kansas Missouri compromise.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
yesterday
You can't offer an expert answer if you don't know the subject matter. SE sites try to attract expert anwers. You aren't actually answering the question here. Suggestion: go back and read the question, in detail, and then answer the question as asked.
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Question:
Why did Lincoln wait to issue the Declaration of Emancipation?
(Apologies in advance: not being American, while I've read up somewhat about the military aspects of the Civil War, I am somewhat unclear as to its political dimension.)
Lincoln did not declare the slaves free until 1863, despite his personal beliefs.
Did he wait because he was not sure of the political support in the North for accepting Abolition as a war aim, along with stopping Secession? Or did he wait to preserve the possibility of negotiations with the Confederacy? If it was the second reason, is there any indication of what he was willing to compromise on? If the first, what changed?
Background:
In the United States the most meaningful way to end slavery was a constitutional amendment. This takes the most political consensus (2/3rds of the house and Senate and then 3/4th of the states) and is thus the most difficult to implement and reverse. Lincoln achieved the first part of this during the Civil war( Apr 12, 1861 - Apr 9, 1865) with the ratification of of the 13th Amendment to the Constitution by the house and senate. Although it wasn't ratified by 3/4th of the status until , Dec 6, 1865. The Thirteenth amendment was first introduced Dec 1863, and failed to pass in the house on the first vote June 15, 1864 by 13 votes. Lincoln organized a pretty masterful political offensive involving government jobs for outgoing congressmen in a lame duck congress in order to finally pass the amendment. Still it took years and even in Dec of 1865 passing it was not a simple lift.
Lincolns signature of the Presidential order the Emancipation Proclamation Jan 1, 1863 was a political stunt. It was an act who's audience was not domestic. Lincoln knew the next president could easily repeal it, and the current Supreme Court once the crisis of war was over would have likely declared it unconstitutional. It was entirely about politics. Lincoln could not dictate timing for a constitutional amendment, but he could with a presidential order; and that's what he did.
Short Answer:
Why did Lincoln sign it, in order to best preserve the Union. Broadly international politics and secondarily as previous answers have stated waiting for a Union Victory. Now he never really got the Union Victory the Battle of Antietam was tactically and strategically a stalemate and resulted in the top union General McClellan being dismissed from his command. But Lincoln couldn't wait any longer as diplomatically he felt he had to act. Britain and France were making noises about intervention on the side of the South, and the Emancipation Proclamation was a performance for their ears in order to freeze them out. Lincoln didn't want it to look like a desperate act which is why he wanted a victory to be the backdrop for the Executive Order. He didn't get that, but it was close enough.
Detailed Answer:
So Lincoln knew he needed a constitutional Amendment to end slavery in a meaningful way. Why did he sign the Presidential order the Emancipation Proclamation in Jan 1, 1863, knowing the next President could simply repeal Lincolns order? The next President, Andrew Johnson, a slaveholding politician from a Southern state probable would have. Lincoln also knew the supreme court likely would have declared the Emancipation proclamation unconstitutional in the absence of a change to the Constitution.
Lincoln did it to preserve the union. Simple put the American Civil war was fought on many front. Economic, Political, Military, and Diplomatic. It was the diplomatic war which needed Lincoln's action on Jan of 1863. Britain and France were threatening to enter the war on behalf of the Confederate States. Lincoln used the Emancipation Proclamation to reframe the war from one about preserving the Union, into a war to end slavery. That's what the emancipation proclamation did. It announced that ending slavery would be a major goal of the Union in the War. Lincoln knew if the war was framed as one against slavery it would make Britain and France's intervention untenable giving both countries had already abolished slavery Britain(Slavery Abolition Act in 1833) and France (Louis X abolished slavery in 1315, although slavery continued in French Colonies until 1848).
The timing was dictated by politics, and as previous answers said more precisely by a Union victory at Battle of Antietam. Technically Antietam wasn't a victory for the Union it was a stalemate. But after months and months of seeing his armies retreating from the gates of Richmond, seeing Lee retreat from Maryland back into Virginia was represented in the Northern Newspapers as a victory. So Lee used that "victory" to roll out his diplomatic offensive against Britain and French intervention.
Emancipation Proclamation
As Lincoln had hoped, the Proclamation turned foreign popular opinion in favor of the Union by gaining the support of anti-slavery countries and countries that had already abolished slavery (especially the developed countries in Europe such as Great Britain or France). This shift ended the Confederacy's hopes of gaining official recognition.[99]
Since the Emancipation Proclamation made the eradication of slavery an explicit Union war goal, it linked support for the South to support for slavery. Public opinion in Britain would not tolerate direct support for slavery. British companies, however, continued to build and operate blockade runners for the South. As Henry Adams noted, "The Emancipation Proclamation has done more for us than all our former victories and all our diplomacy." In Italy, Giuseppe Garibaldi hailed Lincoln as "the heir of the aspirations of John Brown". On August 6, 1863, Garibaldi wrote to Lincoln: "Posterity will call you the great emancipator, a more enviable title than any crown could be, and greater than any merely mundane treasure".[100]
Mayor Abel Haywood, a representative for workers from Manchester, England, wrote to Lincoln saying, "We joyfully honor you for many decisive steps toward practically exemplifying your belief in the words of your great founders: 'All men are created free and equal.'"[101] The Emancipation Proclamation served to ease tensions with Europe over the North's conduct of the war, and combined with the recent failed Southern offensive at Antietam, to cut off any practical chance for the Confederacy to receive British support in the war.
Sources:
- Thirteenth Amendment
- History of the Thirteenth Amendment
- Emancipation_Proclamation
- Abolitionism
- Battle of Antietam
add a comment |
If President Lincoln had been so concerned about slavery being abolished, then he would have abolished it in the "Union" at the onset of the war--thereby abolishing it in Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri 5 years earlier. Moreover, the Emancipation Proclamation as an executive order which was not executed for over 3 months after the famous speech and it explicitly freed slaves only in Confederate states--not Union states! Technically, the executive order was not legal itself, albeit a moral one, because it was not implementing any law (a.k.a., statute, provision, or treaty).1
If the "abolitionist" states had been so against slavery, then the second largest domestic trade city would not have been Baltimore, Maryland for over 50 years.2
The taxation of slavery was the main cause of the secession of the Confederate states, not slavery itself. If the war was just about whether slavery should be abolished, sociologists could not explain how/why millions of men would fight to the death to keep something legal they could never hope to afford. A healthy horse cost more than an average slave and most combatants could not afford a horse. Owning slaves was only worthwhile if they could work them on a farm or other business which would cost much more to purchase or establish.
Lastly, the war was not a civil war because the United States was previously a union of states/countries each with their own constitutions and currencies, not a country itself--imagine the E.U. without the Euro. To this day, the word for "state" in many languages translates to "country" (e.g. Islamic states). Only the modern use of the word "state" in the U.S. and Mexico has connoted a constituent member of a country.
In summary, your confusion is the result of President Lincoln not having much concern at all for freeing slaves, but concern for preserving his legacy. The secession of 7 states happened shortly after his inauguration, he mobilized military forces to coerce them back into the fold, then 4 more states seceded as a result. He knew that if the "Union" were not "preserved", history would hold him accountable. He also did not care how many laws he broke preserving his legacy.[3][4]
Footnote: When I read these question and answers on the Internet, I usually just shake my head, but I had to respond to this one. Countless answerers will tell you that the "Civil War" was only about slavery and its abolishment. There are too many historical facts that are incomplete retrograde to support this. For example, blacks fighting in the Confederate Army (corroborated by Lincoln's war advisors). Regardless of the small number, imagine Northern Irishmen joining the British Army with the express intent of keeping their fellow Northern Irishmen under British rule--the supposition is ludicrous!
[3]: "The Body of John Merryman: Abraham Lincoln and the Suspension of Habeas Corpus", ISBN-13: 9780674063259
[4]: "Lincoln and Chief Justice Taney: Slavery, Secession, and the President's War Powers", ISBN-13: 9780743250320
New contributor
3
Lincoln did not have the power to free any slaves held by others. That would take legislation on a state by state basis or a Constitutional amendment. The Emancipation Proclamation was basically an order by the commander-in-chief of the Army about what to do with rebel property, and therefore didn't need to be implementing a law. As far as slavery being the cause of the war, read the various secession announcements and examine the Confederate Constitution. Then you can speculate why most Southerners went along with secession.
– David Thornley
14 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "The taxation of slavery was the main cause of the secession" could you please provide some specifics about taxation of slavery by federal government after 1807, when importation of slaves was ended? I don't remember "the taxation of slavery" was mentioned in declaration of causes of secession by any seceding state.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "union of states/countries each with their own constitutions and currencies" - By the beginning of the war a lot of banks issued their own currency; would you consider such bank as a country? With no right to "enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation", "coin Money; emit Bills of Credit", with no right at their own will "lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power", these states hardly could be considered as countries.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "The secession of 7 states happened shortly after his inauguration, he mobilized military forces to coerce them back into the fold" You are mistaken, 7 states seceded way before his inauguration, they even formed Confederacy weeks before inauguration. Oh, and you forgot to mention, that BEFORE Lincoln mobilized military forces to deal with Confederacy, this new neighbor announced creation of 100,000 strong army (5 times bigger than Union army at the time), started to mobilize and deploy this army by Union military installation, and bombarded Union fort with military garrison
– Alexander Barhavin
1 hour ago
add a comment |
We learned about this recently in my APUSH class and we said one reason he issued it was to help end the civil war. He knew that by freeing the slaves they would help the fight. Look at the 54th Massachusetts reiment.😀
New contributor
Also he waited because he thought the North would win without having to free the slaves. He realized that if he didn't free the slaves the South might win after, I believe, the battle of Gettysburg
– Raven
yesterday
add a comment |
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@Peter Diehr's answer is a good one and I've upvoted it - but I'd like to expand on that, remembering that Lincoln was a very good strategist.
First, The Civil War was about slavery, and the South's (correct) understanding was that the North was growing faster than it was and free states would sooner or later substantially outnumber slave states. (Some of the nominally slave states allowed slavery, but were not economically dependent on it as were the Deep South states. Sentiment for abolition was growing in those states, also. Slavery was doomed under the Union.)
If the South did nothing, they lost in maybe twenty years when the North would have the political power to abolish slavery. They had to secede when they did.
Lincoln, on the other hand, had history on his side. If he could hold the Union together, then slavery was doomed. Until the war was beyond settlement, his best bet to abolish slavery was to try to keep the Union together. So in the early days he insisted his only purpose was to hold the Union together.
Secondly, the Union included several border states which allowed slavery, but where it wasn't the bedrock of the economy. To have a decent chance of winning the war militarily, the North had to hold on to those states. So even the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free the slaves in Union states! Key point: For the Emancipation Proclamation to have effect anywhere it needed to not push the slave states still in the Union into rebellion. So it had to exempt them.
And then thirdly, as Peter says, once Lincoln had a strong Union victory he could start pushing explicitly on ending slavery. Once the North (and foreign countries, especially Great Britain) saw that the Union would end slavery and had to power to do it its moral authority was immeasurably strengthened which sped the end of the war.
2
"The Civil War was about slavery". You should edit this to note that it was not the only reason.
– Infiltrator
yesterday
When I asked my question about this many people seemed to agree that the reason for the proclamation was to turn the war from a war of secession to a moral war about slavery, effectively ending the chance of the Confederacy to receive help from say France or Great Britain. I don't know what to make of the fact that many people say Lincoln was waging a moral crusade against slavery. He mentioned in his inaugural address just before the civil war that he had no intention to interfere with the practice or slavery, and admitted he didn't have the power to.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
8
@Infiltrator I think it's in his book Terrible Swift Sword that Bruce Catton quotes both Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis as having publicly said, in the first year of the war, various things which amounted to: "This war is not being fought over ending (or preserving) slavery." Catton then makes it clear he doesn't quite believe either of them; that was something they were saying for political effect. Without slavery, there wouldn't have been a Civil War at all, and the ramifications of that issue strongly affected everything else that was going on in 1861.
– Lorendiac
21 hours ago
1
@Zebrafish Lincoln wasn't going to end slavery, he was going to weaken it, and set up the next president to weaken it further, and the next... The south saw the march of history away from slavery, and they decided to cut and run rather than see it weaken another iota. Succession was explicitly about slavery. The civil war was about preserving the union: Lincoln would take a union where slavery survived another 5, 10, 20, 30 years over a civil war. But such a union would almost certainly lead to the end of slavery, eventually, or at least both Lincoln and the slave states believed.
– Yakk
15 hours ago
Slavery was a great evil, but so is civil war. No decent person would deliberately choose either if a strategy was available that might end one without triggering the other. Even if it requires fibbing.
– Mark Olson
8 hours ago
add a comment |
@Peter Diehr's answer is a good one and I've upvoted it - but I'd like to expand on that, remembering that Lincoln was a very good strategist.
First, The Civil War was about slavery, and the South's (correct) understanding was that the North was growing faster than it was and free states would sooner or later substantially outnumber slave states. (Some of the nominally slave states allowed slavery, but were not economically dependent on it as were the Deep South states. Sentiment for abolition was growing in those states, also. Slavery was doomed under the Union.)
If the South did nothing, they lost in maybe twenty years when the North would have the political power to abolish slavery. They had to secede when they did.
Lincoln, on the other hand, had history on his side. If he could hold the Union together, then slavery was doomed. Until the war was beyond settlement, his best bet to abolish slavery was to try to keep the Union together. So in the early days he insisted his only purpose was to hold the Union together.
Secondly, the Union included several border states which allowed slavery, but where it wasn't the bedrock of the economy. To have a decent chance of winning the war militarily, the North had to hold on to those states. So even the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free the slaves in Union states! Key point: For the Emancipation Proclamation to have effect anywhere it needed to not push the slave states still in the Union into rebellion. So it had to exempt them.
And then thirdly, as Peter says, once Lincoln had a strong Union victory he could start pushing explicitly on ending slavery. Once the North (and foreign countries, especially Great Britain) saw that the Union would end slavery and had to power to do it its moral authority was immeasurably strengthened which sped the end of the war.
2
"The Civil War was about slavery". You should edit this to note that it was not the only reason.
– Infiltrator
yesterday
When I asked my question about this many people seemed to agree that the reason for the proclamation was to turn the war from a war of secession to a moral war about slavery, effectively ending the chance of the Confederacy to receive help from say France or Great Britain. I don't know what to make of the fact that many people say Lincoln was waging a moral crusade against slavery. He mentioned in his inaugural address just before the civil war that he had no intention to interfere with the practice or slavery, and admitted he didn't have the power to.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
8
@Infiltrator I think it's in his book Terrible Swift Sword that Bruce Catton quotes both Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis as having publicly said, in the first year of the war, various things which amounted to: "This war is not being fought over ending (or preserving) slavery." Catton then makes it clear he doesn't quite believe either of them; that was something they were saying for political effect. Without slavery, there wouldn't have been a Civil War at all, and the ramifications of that issue strongly affected everything else that was going on in 1861.
– Lorendiac
21 hours ago
1
@Zebrafish Lincoln wasn't going to end slavery, he was going to weaken it, and set up the next president to weaken it further, and the next... The south saw the march of history away from slavery, and they decided to cut and run rather than see it weaken another iota. Succession was explicitly about slavery. The civil war was about preserving the union: Lincoln would take a union where slavery survived another 5, 10, 20, 30 years over a civil war. But such a union would almost certainly lead to the end of slavery, eventually, or at least both Lincoln and the slave states believed.
– Yakk
15 hours ago
Slavery was a great evil, but so is civil war. No decent person would deliberately choose either if a strategy was available that might end one without triggering the other. Even if it requires fibbing.
– Mark Olson
8 hours ago
add a comment |
@Peter Diehr's answer is a good one and I've upvoted it - but I'd like to expand on that, remembering that Lincoln was a very good strategist.
First, The Civil War was about slavery, and the South's (correct) understanding was that the North was growing faster than it was and free states would sooner or later substantially outnumber slave states. (Some of the nominally slave states allowed slavery, but were not economically dependent on it as were the Deep South states. Sentiment for abolition was growing in those states, also. Slavery was doomed under the Union.)
If the South did nothing, they lost in maybe twenty years when the North would have the political power to abolish slavery. They had to secede when they did.
Lincoln, on the other hand, had history on his side. If he could hold the Union together, then slavery was doomed. Until the war was beyond settlement, his best bet to abolish slavery was to try to keep the Union together. So in the early days he insisted his only purpose was to hold the Union together.
Secondly, the Union included several border states which allowed slavery, but where it wasn't the bedrock of the economy. To have a decent chance of winning the war militarily, the North had to hold on to those states. So even the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free the slaves in Union states! Key point: For the Emancipation Proclamation to have effect anywhere it needed to not push the slave states still in the Union into rebellion. So it had to exempt them.
And then thirdly, as Peter says, once Lincoln had a strong Union victory he could start pushing explicitly on ending slavery. Once the North (and foreign countries, especially Great Britain) saw that the Union would end slavery and had to power to do it its moral authority was immeasurably strengthened which sped the end of the war.
@Peter Diehr's answer is a good one and I've upvoted it - but I'd like to expand on that, remembering that Lincoln was a very good strategist.
First, The Civil War was about slavery, and the South's (correct) understanding was that the North was growing faster than it was and free states would sooner or later substantially outnumber slave states. (Some of the nominally slave states allowed slavery, but were not economically dependent on it as were the Deep South states. Sentiment for abolition was growing in those states, also. Slavery was doomed under the Union.)
If the South did nothing, they lost in maybe twenty years when the North would have the political power to abolish slavery. They had to secede when they did.
Lincoln, on the other hand, had history on his side. If he could hold the Union together, then slavery was doomed. Until the war was beyond settlement, his best bet to abolish slavery was to try to keep the Union together. So in the early days he insisted his only purpose was to hold the Union together.
Secondly, the Union included several border states which allowed slavery, but where it wasn't the bedrock of the economy. To have a decent chance of winning the war militarily, the North had to hold on to those states. So even the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free the slaves in Union states! Key point: For the Emancipation Proclamation to have effect anywhere it needed to not push the slave states still in the Union into rebellion. So it had to exempt them.
And then thirdly, as Peter says, once Lincoln had a strong Union victory he could start pushing explicitly on ending slavery. Once the North (and foreign countries, especially Great Britain) saw that the Union would end slavery and had to power to do it its moral authority was immeasurably strengthened which sped the end of the war.
edited yesterday
CopperKettle
4331413
4331413
answered Jan 16 at 3:26
Mark OlsonMark Olson
2,077613
2,077613
2
"The Civil War was about slavery". You should edit this to note that it was not the only reason.
– Infiltrator
yesterday
When I asked my question about this many people seemed to agree that the reason for the proclamation was to turn the war from a war of secession to a moral war about slavery, effectively ending the chance of the Confederacy to receive help from say France or Great Britain. I don't know what to make of the fact that many people say Lincoln was waging a moral crusade against slavery. He mentioned in his inaugural address just before the civil war that he had no intention to interfere with the practice or slavery, and admitted he didn't have the power to.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
8
@Infiltrator I think it's in his book Terrible Swift Sword that Bruce Catton quotes both Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis as having publicly said, in the first year of the war, various things which amounted to: "This war is not being fought over ending (or preserving) slavery." Catton then makes it clear he doesn't quite believe either of them; that was something they were saying for political effect. Without slavery, there wouldn't have been a Civil War at all, and the ramifications of that issue strongly affected everything else that was going on in 1861.
– Lorendiac
21 hours ago
1
@Zebrafish Lincoln wasn't going to end slavery, he was going to weaken it, and set up the next president to weaken it further, and the next... The south saw the march of history away from slavery, and they decided to cut and run rather than see it weaken another iota. Succession was explicitly about slavery. The civil war was about preserving the union: Lincoln would take a union where slavery survived another 5, 10, 20, 30 years over a civil war. But such a union would almost certainly lead to the end of slavery, eventually, or at least both Lincoln and the slave states believed.
– Yakk
15 hours ago
Slavery was a great evil, but so is civil war. No decent person would deliberately choose either if a strategy was available that might end one without triggering the other. Even if it requires fibbing.
– Mark Olson
8 hours ago
add a comment |
2
"The Civil War was about slavery". You should edit this to note that it was not the only reason.
– Infiltrator
yesterday
When I asked my question about this many people seemed to agree that the reason for the proclamation was to turn the war from a war of secession to a moral war about slavery, effectively ending the chance of the Confederacy to receive help from say France or Great Britain. I don't know what to make of the fact that many people say Lincoln was waging a moral crusade against slavery. He mentioned in his inaugural address just before the civil war that he had no intention to interfere with the practice or slavery, and admitted he didn't have the power to.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
8
@Infiltrator I think it's in his book Terrible Swift Sword that Bruce Catton quotes both Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis as having publicly said, in the first year of the war, various things which amounted to: "This war is not being fought over ending (or preserving) slavery." Catton then makes it clear he doesn't quite believe either of them; that was something they were saying for political effect. Without slavery, there wouldn't have been a Civil War at all, and the ramifications of that issue strongly affected everything else that was going on in 1861.
– Lorendiac
21 hours ago
1
@Zebrafish Lincoln wasn't going to end slavery, he was going to weaken it, and set up the next president to weaken it further, and the next... The south saw the march of history away from slavery, and they decided to cut and run rather than see it weaken another iota. Succession was explicitly about slavery. The civil war was about preserving the union: Lincoln would take a union where slavery survived another 5, 10, 20, 30 years over a civil war. But such a union would almost certainly lead to the end of slavery, eventually, or at least both Lincoln and the slave states believed.
– Yakk
15 hours ago
Slavery was a great evil, but so is civil war. No decent person would deliberately choose either if a strategy was available that might end one without triggering the other. Even if it requires fibbing.
– Mark Olson
8 hours ago
2
2
"The Civil War was about slavery". You should edit this to note that it was not the only reason.
– Infiltrator
yesterday
"The Civil War was about slavery". You should edit this to note that it was not the only reason.
– Infiltrator
yesterday
When I asked my question about this many people seemed to agree that the reason for the proclamation was to turn the war from a war of secession to a moral war about slavery, effectively ending the chance of the Confederacy to receive help from say France or Great Britain. I don't know what to make of the fact that many people say Lincoln was waging a moral crusade against slavery. He mentioned in his inaugural address just before the civil war that he had no intention to interfere with the practice or slavery, and admitted he didn't have the power to.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
When I asked my question about this many people seemed to agree that the reason for the proclamation was to turn the war from a war of secession to a moral war about slavery, effectively ending the chance of the Confederacy to receive help from say France or Great Britain. I don't know what to make of the fact that many people say Lincoln was waging a moral crusade against slavery. He mentioned in his inaugural address just before the civil war that he had no intention to interfere with the practice or slavery, and admitted he didn't have the power to.
– Zebrafish
yesterday
8
8
@Infiltrator I think it's in his book Terrible Swift Sword that Bruce Catton quotes both Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis as having publicly said, in the first year of the war, various things which amounted to: "This war is not being fought over ending (or preserving) slavery." Catton then makes it clear he doesn't quite believe either of them; that was something they were saying for political effect. Without slavery, there wouldn't have been a Civil War at all, and the ramifications of that issue strongly affected everything else that was going on in 1861.
– Lorendiac
21 hours ago
@Infiltrator I think it's in his book Terrible Swift Sword that Bruce Catton quotes both Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis as having publicly said, in the first year of the war, various things which amounted to: "This war is not being fought over ending (or preserving) slavery." Catton then makes it clear he doesn't quite believe either of them; that was something they were saying for political effect. Without slavery, there wouldn't have been a Civil War at all, and the ramifications of that issue strongly affected everything else that was going on in 1861.
– Lorendiac
21 hours ago
1
1
@Zebrafish Lincoln wasn't going to end slavery, he was going to weaken it, and set up the next president to weaken it further, and the next... The south saw the march of history away from slavery, and they decided to cut and run rather than see it weaken another iota. Succession was explicitly about slavery. The civil war was about preserving the union: Lincoln would take a union where slavery survived another 5, 10, 20, 30 years over a civil war. But such a union would almost certainly lead to the end of slavery, eventually, or at least both Lincoln and the slave states believed.
– Yakk
15 hours ago
@Zebrafish Lincoln wasn't going to end slavery, he was going to weaken it, and set up the next president to weaken it further, and the next... The south saw the march of history away from slavery, and they decided to cut and run rather than see it weaken another iota. Succession was explicitly about slavery. The civil war was about preserving the union: Lincoln would take a union where slavery survived another 5, 10, 20, 30 years over a civil war. But such a union would almost certainly lead to the end of slavery, eventually, or at least both Lincoln and the slave states believed.
– Yakk
15 hours ago
Slavery was a great evil, but so is civil war. No decent person would deliberately choose either if a strategy was available that might end one without triggering the other. Even if it requires fibbing.
– Mark Olson
8 hours ago
Slavery was a great evil, but so is civil war. No decent person would deliberately choose either if a strategy was available that might end one without triggering the other. Even if it requires fibbing.
– Mark Olson
8 hours ago
add a comment |
Lincoln waited until there was a great union victory; the early losses, and the poor showing of the Union generals did not give him a very firm place to stand and make promises.
Antietam was the victory he was waiting for, and a preliminary declaration was issued at that time.
See this History channel article on the Emancipation Proclamation for further details and analysis.
2
True enough (+1) but one could quibble that Antietam wasn't a "great union victory" since it was tactically a draw in which McClellan failed to destroy Lee's army despite having a dominant position. Still, a draw which left you in a strategically better position was at least a partial victory after a long run of failure.
– John Coleman
2 days ago
3
@JohnColeman - In tactical lingo, the "Victor" of an engagement is the force that holds the field at the end. You could quibble with the "great" part I suppose, but Antietam was objectively a Union victory. (To be fair, The Antietam WP page currently has this wrong in exactly the way you suggest).
– T.E.D.♦
2 days ago
1
@kuhl As I said, it was a quibble. Strategically it was a Union victory, which was enough for Lincoln (though doubtless he would have preferred a more clear-cut victory).
– John Coleman
yesterday
2
To give more data: if you look at the battles fought in 1862 with the goal of finding a decent union victory preceding Antietam, they are hard to find. The best candidates are Fort Donelson, Shiloh, and Pea Ridge. The battles in the east were better covered by the press, and were all fiascos for the Union., except for one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Elizabeth_City
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
2
Also obviously Lincoln knew Antietam wasn't that great a victory, because he got rid of McClellan (who couldn't wipe out Lee in spite of having the intel for all his movements literally handed to him) as soon as he could. it was the best thing at hand, and he didn't know how long he'd have to wait til the next one.
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
Lincoln waited until there was a great union victory; the early losses, and the poor showing of the Union generals did not give him a very firm place to stand and make promises.
Antietam was the victory he was waiting for, and a preliminary declaration was issued at that time.
See this History channel article on the Emancipation Proclamation for further details and analysis.
2
True enough (+1) but one could quibble that Antietam wasn't a "great union victory" since it was tactically a draw in which McClellan failed to destroy Lee's army despite having a dominant position. Still, a draw which left you in a strategically better position was at least a partial victory after a long run of failure.
– John Coleman
2 days ago
3
@JohnColeman - In tactical lingo, the "Victor" of an engagement is the force that holds the field at the end. You could quibble with the "great" part I suppose, but Antietam was objectively a Union victory. (To be fair, The Antietam WP page currently has this wrong in exactly the way you suggest).
– T.E.D.♦
2 days ago
1
@kuhl As I said, it was a quibble. Strategically it was a Union victory, which was enough for Lincoln (though doubtless he would have preferred a more clear-cut victory).
– John Coleman
yesterday
2
To give more data: if you look at the battles fought in 1862 with the goal of finding a decent union victory preceding Antietam, they are hard to find. The best candidates are Fort Donelson, Shiloh, and Pea Ridge. The battles in the east were better covered by the press, and were all fiascos for the Union., except for one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Elizabeth_City
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
2
Also obviously Lincoln knew Antietam wasn't that great a victory, because he got rid of McClellan (who couldn't wipe out Lee in spite of having the intel for all his movements literally handed to him) as soon as he could. it was the best thing at hand, and he didn't know how long he'd have to wait til the next one.
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
Lincoln waited until there was a great union victory; the early losses, and the poor showing of the Union generals did not give him a very firm place to stand and make promises.
Antietam was the victory he was waiting for, and a preliminary declaration was issued at that time.
See this History channel article on the Emancipation Proclamation for further details and analysis.
Lincoln waited until there was a great union victory; the early losses, and the poor showing of the Union generals did not give him a very firm place to stand and make promises.
Antietam was the victory he was waiting for, and a preliminary declaration was issued at that time.
See this History channel article on the Emancipation Proclamation for further details and analysis.
answered Jan 16 at 2:29
Peter DiehrPeter Diehr
5,76711441
5,76711441
2
True enough (+1) but one could quibble that Antietam wasn't a "great union victory" since it was tactically a draw in which McClellan failed to destroy Lee's army despite having a dominant position. Still, a draw which left you in a strategically better position was at least a partial victory after a long run of failure.
– John Coleman
2 days ago
3
@JohnColeman - In tactical lingo, the "Victor" of an engagement is the force that holds the field at the end. You could quibble with the "great" part I suppose, but Antietam was objectively a Union victory. (To be fair, The Antietam WP page currently has this wrong in exactly the way you suggest).
– T.E.D.♦
2 days ago
1
@kuhl As I said, it was a quibble. Strategically it was a Union victory, which was enough for Lincoln (though doubtless he would have preferred a more clear-cut victory).
– John Coleman
yesterday
2
To give more data: if you look at the battles fought in 1862 with the goal of finding a decent union victory preceding Antietam, they are hard to find. The best candidates are Fort Donelson, Shiloh, and Pea Ridge. The battles in the east were better covered by the press, and were all fiascos for the Union., except for one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Elizabeth_City
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
2
Also obviously Lincoln knew Antietam wasn't that great a victory, because he got rid of McClellan (who couldn't wipe out Lee in spite of having the intel for all his movements literally handed to him) as soon as he could. it was the best thing at hand, and he didn't know how long he'd have to wait til the next one.
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
2
True enough (+1) but one could quibble that Antietam wasn't a "great union victory" since it was tactically a draw in which McClellan failed to destroy Lee's army despite having a dominant position. Still, a draw which left you in a strategically better position was at least a partial victory after a long run of failure.
– John Coleman
2 days ago
3
@JohnColeman - In tactical lingo, the "Victor" of an engagement is the force that holds the field at the end. You could quibble with the "great" part I suppose, but Antietam was objectively a Union victory. (To be fair, The Antietam WP page currently has this wrong in exactly the way you suggest).
– T.E.D.♦
2 days ago
1
@kuhl As I said, it was a quibble. Strategically it was a Union victory, which was enough for Lincoln (though doubtless he would have preferred a more clear-cut victory).
– John Coleman
yesterday
2
To give more data: if you look at the battles fought in 1862 with the goal of finding a decent union victory preceding Antietam, they are hard to find. The best candidates are Fort Donelson, Shiloh, and Pea Ridge. The battles in the east were better covered by the press, and were all fiascos for the Union., except for one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Elizabeth_City
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
2
Also obviously Lincoln knew Antietam wasn't that great a victory, because he got rid of McClellan (who couldn't wipe out Lee in spite of having the intel for all his movements literally handed to him) as soon as he could. it was the best thing at hand, and he didn't know how long he'd have to wait til the next one.
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
2
2
True enough (+1) but one could quibble that Antietam wasn't a "great union victory" since it was tactically a draw in which McClellan failed to destroy Lee's army despite having a dominant position. Still, a draw which left you in a strategically better position was at least a partial victory after a long run of failure.
– John Coleman
2 days ago
True enough (+1) but one could quibble that Antietam wasn't a "great union victory" since it was tactically a draw in which McClellan failed to destroy Lee's army despite having a dominant position. Still, a draw which left you in a strategically better position was at least a partial victory after a long run of failure.
– John Coleman
2 days ago
3
3
@JohnColeman - In tactical lingo, the "Victor" of an engagement is the force that holds the field at the end. You could quibble with the "great" part I suppose, but Antietam was objectively a Union victory. (To be fair, The Antietam WP page currently has this wrong in exactly the way you suggest).
– T.E.D.♦
2 days ago
@JohnColeman - In tactical lingo, the "Victor" of an engagement is the force that holds the field at the end. You could quibble with the "great" part I suppose, but Antietam was objectively a Union victory. (To be fair, The Antietam WP page currently has this wrong in exactly the way you suggest).
– T.E.D.♦
2 days ago
1
1
@kuhl As I said, it was a quibble. Strategically it was a Union victory, which was enough for Lincoln (though doubtless he would have preferred a more clear-cut victory).
– John Coleman
yesterday
@kuhl As I said, it was a quibble. Strategically it was a Union victory, which was enough for Lincoln (though doubtless he would have preferred a more clear-cut victory).
– John Coleman
yesterday
2
2
To give more data: if you look at the battles fought in 1862 with the goal of finding a decent union victory preceding Antietam, they are hard to find. The best candidates are Fort Donelson, Shiloh, and Pea Ridge. The battles in the east were better covered by the press, and were all fiascos for the Union., except for one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Elizabeth_City
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
To give more data: if you look at the battles fought in 1862 with the goal of finding a decent union victory preceding Antietam, they are hard to find. The best candidates are Fort Donelson, Shiloh, and Pea Ridge. The battles in the east were better covered by the press, and were all fiascos for the Union., except for one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Elizabeth_City
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
2
2
Also obviously Lincoln knew Antietam wasn't that great a victory, because he got rid of McClellan (who couldn't wipe out Lee in spite of having the intel for all his movements literally handed to him) as soon as he could. it was the best thing at hand, and he didn't know how long he'd have to wait til the next one.
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
Also obviously Lincoln knew Antietam wasn't that great a victory, because he got rid of McClellan (who couldn't wipe out Lee in spite of having the intel for all his movements literally handed to him) as soon as he could. it was the best thing at hand, and he didn't know how long he'd have to wait til the next one.
– Nathan Hughes
yesterday
|
show 2 more comments
While there were plenty of altruistic abolitionists who hated slavery purely on its in-humanity, much of the political drive ($$$) for the war was driven by the fear of the northern factory owners.
Like almost every war, the United States Civil War was not primarily about ideology, it was about economics. The northern, industrialized states were concerned that after several labor saving devices (i.e. cotton gin, steam engine) that the South's excess labor pool and the increasing industrialization of the south would threaten their near monopoly on manufacture. Imagine just one point, cotton; if the south had the raw materials (cotton) and the ability to use slave labor to manufacture the cotton cloth and even cotton clothing. That would put a big dent in the northern factory owners earning stream.
Lincoln's timing for the emancipation proclamation was purely based on the failure of diplomacy to end the war before major conflict (Antietam). It served largely propaganda purposes.
New contributor
Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.
1
Something I want to add to this is that it was pretty clear that slavery was less efficient by the time the civil war was happening. Had the civil war just not happened, slave states would have lost their economic power because the system just couldn't keep up with compete forms of labor. Putting the slaves to work in factories probably wouldn't have helped too much because slaves are just less efficient than paid workers; slaves don't want to be at work so they drag their feet.
– Steve
yesterday
1
This is why the south didn't produce perishable products in their plantations. Slaves would have taken too long to harvest it and most of it would have spoiled in the fields.
– Steve
yesterday
2
More people need to look at economics to understand the civil war. It's not a simple moral matter. Freeing the slaves too early honestly would have just crashed the economy and caused a war anyway. That's why southern reconstructions was so important. Too bad Lincoln got killed at the play.
– Steve
yesterday
For cotton states slave owners raw cotton production was far more profitable than anything else, and it was huge growing demand for raw cotton, domestically and abroad (it constituted vast majority of US export). It is why these cotton states were not producing enough goods for their own needs, and was buying manufacture goods from New England, mules from Kentucky, food from Midwest, slaves from Virginia. And it is why northerners manufacturers were not concerned about South's excess labor pool but mostly about flow of raw cotton supply from South
– Alexander Barhavin
6 hours ago
add a comment |
While there were plenty of altruistic abolitionists who hated slavery purely on its in-humanity, much of the political drive ($$$) for the war was driven by the fear of the northern factory owners.
Like almost every war, the United States Civil War was not primarily about ideology, it was about economics. The northern, industrialized states were concerned that after several labor saving devices (i.e. cotton gin, steam engine) that the South's excess labor pool and the increasing industrialization of the south would threaten their near monopoly on manufacture. Imagine just one point, cotton; if the south had the raw materials (cotton) and the ability to use slave labor to manufacture the cotton cloth and even cotton clothing. That would put a big dent in the northern factory owners earning stream.
Lincoln's timing for the emancipation proclamation was purely based on the failure of diplomacy to end the war before major conflict (Antietam). It served largely propaganda purposes.
New contributor
Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.
1
Something I want to add to this is that it was pretty clear that slavery was less efficient by the time the civil war was happening. Had the civil war just not happened, slave states would have lost their economic power because the system just couldn't keep up with compete forms of labor. Putting the slaves to work in factories probably wouldn't have helped too much because slaves are just less efficient than paid workers; slaves don't want to be at work so they drag their feet.
– Steve
yesterday
1
This is why the south didn't produce perishable products in their plantations. Slaves would have taken too long to harvest it and most of it would have spoiled in the fields.
– Steve
yesterday
2
More people need to look at economics to understand the civil war. It's not a simple moral matter. Freeing the slaves too early honestly would have just crashed the economy and caused a war anyway. That's why southern reconstructions was so important. Too bad Lincoln got killed at the play.
– Steve
yesterday
For cotton states slave owners raw cotton production was far more profitable than anything else, and it was huge growing demand for raw cotton, domestically and abroad (it constituted vast majority of US export). It is why these cotton states were not producing enough goods for their own needs, and was buying manufacture goods from New England, mules from Kentucky, food from Midwest, slaves from Virginia. And it is why northerners manufacturers were not concerned about South's excess labor pool but mostly about flow of raw cotton supply from South
– Alexander Barhavin
6 hours ago
add a comment |
While there were plenty of altruistic abolitionists who hated slavery purely on its in-humanity, much of the political drive ($$$) for the war was driven by the fear of the northern factory owners.
Like almost every war, the United States Civil War was not primarily about ideology, it was about economics. The northern, industrialized states were concerned that after several labor saving devices (i.e. cotton gin, steam engine) that the South's excess labor pool and the increasing industrialization of the south would threaten their near monopoly on manufacture. Imagine just one point, cotton; if the south had the raw materials (cotton) and the ability to use slave labor to manufacture the cotton cloth and even cotton clothing. That would put a big dent in the northern factory owners earning stream.
Lincoln's timing for the emancipation proclamation was purely based on the failure of diplomacy to end the war before major conflict (Antietam). It served largely propaganda purposes.
New contributor
While there were plenty of altruistic abolitionists who hated slavery purely on its in-humanity, much of the political drive ($$$) for the war was driven by the fear of the northern factory owners.
Like almost every war, the United States Civil War was not primarily about ideology, it was about economics. The northern, industrialized states were concerned that after several labor saving devices (i.e. cotton gin, steam engine) that the South's excess labor pool and the increasing industrialization of the south would threaten their near monopoly on manufacture. Imagine just one point, cotton; if the south had the raw materials (cotton) and the ability to use slave labor to manufacture the cotton cloth and even cotton clothing. That would put a big dent in the northern factory owners earning stream.
Lincoln's timing for the emancipation proclamation was purely based on the failure of diplomacy to end the war before major conflict (Antietam). It served largely propaganda purposes.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
bdoylebdoyle
791
791
New contributor
New contributor
Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.
Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.
1
Something I want to add to this is that it was pretty clear that slavery was less efficient by the time the civil war was happening. Had the civil war just not happened, slave states would have lost their economic power because the system just couldn't keep up with compete forms of labor. Putting the slaves to work in factories probably wouldn't have helped too much because slaves are just less efficient than paid workers; slaves don't want to be at work so they drag their feet.
– Steve
yesterday
1
This is why the south didn't produce perishable products in their plantations. Slaves would have taken too long to harvest it and most of it would have spoiled in the fields.
– Steve
yesterday
2
More people need to look at economics to understand the civil war. It's not a simple moral matter. Freeing the slaves too early honestly would have just crashed the economy and caused a war anyway. That's why southern reconstructions was so important. Too bad Lincoln got killed at the play.
– Steve
yesterday
For cotton states slave owners raw cotton production was far more profitable than anything else, and it was huge growing demand for raw cotton, domestically and abroad (it constituted vast majority of US export). It is why these cotton states were not producing enough goods for their own needs, and was buying manufacture goods from New England, mules from Kentucky, food from Midwest, slaves from Virginia. And it is why northerners manufacturers were not concerned about South's excess labor pool but mostly about flow of raw cotton supply from South
– Alexander Barhavin
6 hours ago
add a comment |
1
Something I want to add to this is that it was pretty clear that slavery was less efficient by the time the civil war was happening. Had the civil war just not happened, slave states would have lost their economic power because the system just couldn't keep up with compete forms of labor. Putting the slaves to work in factories probably wouldn't have helped too much because slaves are just less efficient than paid workers; slaves don't want to be at work so they drag their feet.
– Steve
yesterday
1
This is why the south didn't produce perishable products in their plantations. Slaves would have taken too long to harvest it and most of it would have spoiled in the fields.
– Steve
yesterday
2
More people need to look at economics to understand the civil war. It's not a simple moral matter. Freeing the slaves too early honestly would have just crashed the economy and caused a war anyway. That's why southern reconstructions was so important. Too bad Lincoln got killed at the play.
– Steve
yesterday
For cotton states slave owners raw cotton production was far more profitable than anything else, and it was huge growing demand for raw cotton, domestically and abroad (it constituted vast majority of US export). It is why these cotton states were not producing enough goods for their own needs, and was buying manufacture goods from New England, mules from Kentucky, food from Midwest, slaves from Virginia. And it is why northerners manufacturers were not concerned about South's excess labor pool but mostly about flow of raw cotton supply from South
– Alexander Barhavin
6 hours ago
1
1
Something I want to add to this is that it was pretty clear that slavery was less efficient by the time the civil war was happening. Had the civil war just not happened, slave states would have lost their economic power because the system just couldn't keep up with compete forms of labor. Putting the slaves to work in factories probably wouldn't have helped too much because slaves are just less efficient than paid workers; slaves don't want to be at work so they drag their feet.
– Steve
yesterday
Something I want to add to this is that it was pretty clear that slavery was less efficient by the time the civil war was happening. Had the civil war just not happened, slave states would have lost their economic power because the system just couldn't keep up with compete forms of labor. Putting the slaves to work in factories probably wouldn't have helped too much because slaves are just less efficient than paid workers; slaves don't want to be at work so they drag their feet.
– Steve
yesterday
1
1
This is why the south didn't produce perishable products in their plantations. Slaves would have taken too long to harvest it and most of it would have spoiled in the fields.
– Steve
yesterday
This is why the south didn't produce perishable products in their plantations. Slaves would have taken too long to harvest it and most of it would have spoiled in the fields.
– Steve
yesterday
2
2
More people need to look at economics to understand the civil war. It's not a simple moral matter. Freeing the slaves too early honestly would have just crashed the economy and caused a war anyway. That's why southern reconstructions was so important. Too bad Lincoln got killed at the play.
– Steve
yesterday
More people need to look at economics to understand the civil war. It's not a simple moral matter. Freeing the slaves too early honestly would have just crashed the economy and caused a war anyway. That's why southern reconstructions was so important. Too bad Lincoln got killed at the play.
– Steve
yesterday
For cotton states slave owners raw cotton production was far more profitable than anything else, and it was huge growing demand for raw cotton, domestically and abroad (it constituted vast majority of US export). It is why these cotton states were not producing enough goods for their own needs, and was buying manufacture goods from New England, mules from Kentucky, food from Midwest, slaves from Virginia. And it is why northerners manufacturers were not concerned about South's excess labor pool but mostly about flow of raw cotton supply from South
– Alexander Barhavin
6 hours ago
For cotton states slave owners raw cotton production was far more profitable than anything else, and it was huge growing demand for raw cotton, domestically and abroad (it constituted vast majority of US export). It is why these cotton states were not producing enough goods for their own needs, and was buying manufacture goods from New England, mules from Kentucky, food from Midwest, slaves from Virginia. And it is why northerners manufacturers were not concerned about South's excess labor pool but mostly about flow of raw cotton supply from South
– Alexander Barhavin
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Because, as Lincoln stated, "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery".
Initially, North expected short victorious war and quick reunification. If this would happened, slavery would be intact. After full year of struggle it became clear that the war is not going to be short, and became questionable if it is going to be victorious.
Lincoln issued Emancipation Proclamation when it became obvious that freeing slaves in rebellion states would help save the Union, and without this action the war could be lost.
Consider following:
Before Lincoln's inauguration, Congress passed constitutional amendment that would shield slavery from the constitutional amendment process and from abolition or interference by Congress (Corwin Amendment). This was attempt to end secession peacefully; Lincoln publicly supported this proposed amendment. It was ratified by few states but did not get required three fourths states to make to Constitution.
As a president, Lincoln did not have an authority to end slavery (to change the Constitution). However, as a commander in chief, during the war he could order to deprive the rebels from their property of military use. On September 22, 1862 Lincoln
announced that all slaves in territory that was still in rebellion as of January 1, 1863, would be free. So it was up to southern states to stop fighting and save their slaves, or continue straggle and risk losing slaves if they loose the war.For Lincoln, ending slavery was another "struggle", which he tried to win (unsuccessfully) by persuasion. He offered compensation to slave states still in Union to end the slavery within these states; they rejected his offer. Before the end of the war Congress passed 13th amendment, abolishing slavery, and these states lost all slaves without any compensation.
BTW, on February 1865, couple of month before Confederacy collapsed, Lincoln offered Confederacy compensation for lost slaves if they agree to stop fighting and return to the Union. Jefferson Davis rejected this proposal, causing thousands unnecessary casualties, humiliating military defeat, and much more painful longer reunification.
add a comment |
Because, as Lincoln stated, "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery".
Initially, North expected short victorious war and quick reunification. If this would happened, slavery would be intact. After full year of struggle it became clear that the war is not going to be short, and became questionable if it is going to be victorious.
Lincoln issued Emancipation Proclamation when it became obvious that freeing slaves in rebellion states would help save the Union, and without this action the war could be lost.
Consider following:
Before Lincoln's inauguration, Congress passed constitutional amendment that would shield slavery from the constitutional amendment process and from abolition or interference by Congress (Corwin Amendment). This was attempt to end secession peacefully; Lincoln publicly supported this proposed amendment. It was ratified by few states but did not get required three fourths states to make to Constitution.
As a president, Lincoln did not have an authority to end slavery (to change the Constitution). However, as a commander in chief, during the war he could order to deprive the rebels from their property of military use. On September 22, 1862 Lincoln
announced that all slaves in territory that was still in rebellion as of January 1, 1863, would be free. So it was up to southern states to stop fighting and save their slaves, or continue straggle and risk losing slaves if they loose the war.For Lincoln, ending slavery was another "struggle", which he tried to win (unsuccessfully) by persuasion. He offered compensation to slave states still in Union to end the slavery within these states; they rejected his offer. Before the end of the war Congress passed 13th amendment, abolishing slavery, and these states lost all slaves without any compensation.
BTW, on February 1865, couple of month before Confederacy collapsed, Lincoln offered Confederacy compensation for lost slaves if they agree to stop fighting and return to the Union. Jefferson Davis rejected this proposal, causing thousands unnecessary casualties, humiliating military defeat, and much more painful longer reunification.
add a comment |
Because, as Lincoln stated, "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery".
Initially, North expected short victorious war and quick reunification. If this would happened, slavery would be intact. After full year of struggle it became clear that the war is not going to be short, and became questionable if it is going to be victorious.
Lincoln issued Emancipation Proclamation when it became obvious that freeing slaves in rebellion states would help save the Union, and without this action the war could be lost.
Consider following:
Before Lincoln's inauguration, Congress passed constitutional amendment that would shield slavery from the constitutional amendment process and from abolition or interference by Congress (Corwin Amendment). This was attempt to end secession peacefully; Lincoln publicly supported this proposed amendment. It was ratified by few states but did not get required three fourths states to make to Constitution.
As a president, Lincoln did not have an authority to end slavery (to change the Constitution). However, as a commander in chief, during the war he could order to deprive the rebels from their property of military use. On September 22, 1862 Lincoln
announced that all slaves in territory that was still in rebellion as of January 1, 1863, would be free. So it was up to southern states to stop fighting and save their slaves, or continue straggle and risk losing slaves if they loose the war.For Lincoln, ending slavery was another "struggle", which he tried to win (unsuccessfully) by persuasion. He offered compensation to slave states still in Union to end the slavery within these states; they rejected his offer. Before the end of the war Congress passed 13th amendment, abolishing slavery, and these states lost all slaves without any compensation.
BTW, on February 1865, couple of month before Confederacy collapsed, Lincoln offered Confederacy compensation for lost slaves if they agree to stop fighting and return to the Union. Jefferson Davis rejected this proposal, causing thousands unnecessary casualties, humiliating military defeat, and much more painful longer reunification.
Because, as Lincoln stated, "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery".
Initially, North expected short victorious war and quick reunification. If this would happened, slavery would be intact. After full year of struggle it became clear that the war is not going to be short, and became questionable if it is going to be victorious.
Lincoln issued Emancipation Proclamation when it became obvious that freeing slaves in rebellion states would help save the Union, and without this action the war could be lost.
Consider following:
Before Lincoln's inauguration, Congress passed constitutional amendment that would shield slavery from the constitutional amendment process and from abolition or interference by Congress (Corwin Amendment). This was attempt to end secession peacefully; Lincoln publicly supported this proposed amendment. It was ratified by few states but did not get required three fourths states to make to Constitution.
As a president, Lincoln did not have an authority to end slavery (to change the Constitution). However, as a commander in chief, during the war he could order to deprive the rebels from their property of military use. On September 22, 1862 Lincoln
announced that all slaves in territory that was still in rebellion as of January 1, 1863, would be free. So it was up to southern states to stop fighting and save their slaves, or continue straggle and risk losing slaves if they loose the war.For Lincoln, ending slavery was another "struggle", which he tried to win (unsuccessfully) by persuasion. He offered compensation to slave states still in Union to end the slavery within these states; they rejected his offer. Before the end of the war Congress passed 13th amendment, abolishing slavery, and these states lost all slaves without any compensation.
BTW, on February 1865, couple of month before Confederacy collapsed, Lincoln offered Confederacy compensation for lost slaves if they agree to stop fighting and return to the Union. Jefferson Davis rejected this proposal, causing thousands unnecessary casualties, humiliating military defeat, and much more painful longer reunification.
answered 23 hours ago
Alexander BarhavinAlexander Barhavin
1,494314
1,494314
add a comment |
add a comment |
Given just how much the economy of the United States was dependent upon slave labour it's perhaps not suprising that Lincoln hesitated, he was not sure that he could carry the House with him and as he said, 'a house divided must fall'.
After all, whilst the American mythos suggested that their war of independence was predicated on no 'taxation without representation', one might ask, were they concerned with the forceful strides that the abolitionist movement was making in Great Britain and perhaps with parliamentary representation they may slow, stall or stop it altogether? Given that a great civil war was fought over this question, it's suprising to me that this question has not been properly investigated, or perhaps if it has, it has not been given much of an airing.
2
There is ample historical evidence to answer these questions; they were concerned with the abolitionist movement, but the South prohibited any discussion of slavery during the formation of the country.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
2 days ago
@MarkC.Wallace: That doesn't make any sense to me. How can you not talk about slavery when you are trading in slaves? Presumably you mean prohibiting any talk of reforming or abolishing the slavery system.
– Mozibur Ullah
yesterday
3
Same thing - the south made it clear that if the topic of slavery were raised in the constitutional convention, the south would walk out, which would mean that thre would be no country. Read the Kansas Missouri compromise.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
yesterday
You can't offer an expert answer if you don't know the subject matter. SE sites try to attract expert anwers. You aren't actually answering the question here. Suggestion: go back and read the question, in detail, and then answer the question as asked.
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Given just how much the economy of the United States was dependent upon slave labour it's perhaps not suprising that Lincoln hesitated, he was not sure that he could carry the House with him and as he said, 'a house divided must fall'.
After all, whilst the American mythos suggested that their war of independence was predicated on no 'taxation without representation', one might ask, were they concerned with the forceful strides that the abolitionist movement was making in Great Britain and perhaps with parliamentary representation they may slow, stall or stop it altogether? Given that a great civil war was fought over this question, it's suprising to me that this question has not been properly investigated, or perhaps if it has, it has not been given much of an airing.
2
There is ample historical evidence to answer these questions; they were concerned with the abolitionist movement, but the South prohibited any discussion of slavery during the formation of the country.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
2 days ago
@MarkC.Wallace: That doesn't make any sense to me. How can you not talk about slavery when you are trading in slaves? Presumably you mean prohibiting any talk of reforming or abolishing the slavery system.
– Mozibur Ullah
yesterday
3
Same thing - the south made it clear that if the topic of slavery were raised in the constitutional convention, the south would walk out, which would mean that thre would be no country. Read the Kansas Missouri compromise.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
yesterday
You can't offer an expert answer if you don't know the subject matter. SE sites try to attract expert anwers. You aren't actually answering the question here. Suggestion: go back and read the question, in detail, and then answer the question as asked.
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Given just how much the economy of the United States was dependent upon slave labour it's perhaps not suprising that Lincoln hesitated, he was not sure that he could carry the House with him and as he said, 'a house divided must fall'.
After all, whilst the American mythos suggested that their war of independence was predicated on no 'taxation without representation', one might ask, were they concerned with the forceful strides that the abolitionist movement was making in Great Britain and perhaps with parliamentary representation they may slow, stall or stop it altogether? Given that a great civil war was fought over this question, it's suprising to me that this question has not been properly investigated, or perhaps if it has, it has not been given much of an airing.
Given just how much the economy of the United States was dependent upon slave labour it's perhaps not suprising that Lincoln hesitated, he was not sure that he could carry the House with him and as he said, 'a house divided must fall'.
After all, whilst the American mythos suggested that their war of independence was predicated on no 'taxation without representation', one might ask, were they concerned with the forceful strides that the abolitionist movement was making in Great Britain and perhaps with parliamentary representation they may slow, stall or stop it altogether? Given that a great civil war was fought over this question, it's suprising to me that this question has not been properly investigated, or perhaps if it has, it has not been given much of an airing.
answered 2 days ago
Mozibur UllahMozibur Ullah
1,2341327
1,2341327
2
There is ample historical evidence to answer these questions; they were concerned with the abolitionist movement, but the South prohibited any discussion of slavery during the formation of the country.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
2 days ago
@MarkC.Wallace: That doesn't make any sense to me. How can you not talk about slavery when you are trading in slaves? Presumably you mean prohibiting any talk of reforming or abolishing the slavery system.
– Mozibur Ullah
yesterday
3
Same thing - the south made it clear that if the topic of slavery were raised in the constitutional convention, the south would walk out, which would mean that thre would be no country. Read the Kansas Missouri compromise.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
yesterday
You can't offer an expert answer if you don't know the subject matter. SE sites try to attract expert anwers. You aren't actually answering the question here. Suggestion: go back and read the question, in detail, and then answer the question as asked.
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
add a comment |
2
There is ample historical evidence to answer these questions; they were concerned with the abolitionist movement, but the South prohibited any discussion of slavery during the formation of the country.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
2 days ago
@MarkC.Wallace: That doesn't make any sense to me. How can you not talk about slavery when you are trading in slaves? Presumably you mean prohibiting any talk of reforming or abolishing the slavery system.
– Mozibur Ullah
yesterday
3
Same thing - the south made it clear that if the topic of slavery were raised in the constitutional convention, the south would walk out, which would mean that thre would be no country. Read the Kansas Missouri compromise.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
yesterday
You can't offer an expert answer if you don't know the subject matter. SE sites try to attract expert anwers. You aren't actually answering the question here. Suggestion: go back and read the question, in detail, and then answer the question as asked.
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
2
2
There is ample historical evidence to answer these questions; they were concerned with the abolitionist movement, but the South prohibited any discussion of slavery during the formation of the country.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
2 days ago
There is ample historical evidence to answer these questions; they were concerned with the abolitionist movement, but the South prohibited any discussion of slavery during the formation of the country.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
2 days ago
@MarkC.Wallace: That doesn't make any sense to me. How can you not talk about slavery when you are trading in slaves? Presumably you mean prohibiting any talk of reforming or abolishing the slavery system.
– Mozibur Ullah
yesterday
@MarkC.Wallace: That doesn't make any sense to me. How can you not talk about slavery when you are trading in slaves? Presumably you mean prohibiting any talk of reforming or abolishing the slavery system.
– Mozibur Ullah
yesterday
3
3
Same thing - the south made it clear that if the topic of slavery were raised in the constitutional convention, the south would walk out, which would mean that thre would be no country. Read the Kansas Missouri compromise.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
yesterday
Same thing - the south made it clear that if the topic of slavery were raised in the constitutional convention, the south would walk out, which would mean that thre would be no country. Read the Kansas Missouri compromise.
– Mark C. Wallace♦
yesterday
You can't offer an expert answer if you don't know the subject matter. SE sites try to attract expert anwers. You aren't actually answering the question here. Suggestion: go back and read the question, in detail, and then answer the question as asked.
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
You can't offer an expert answer if you don't know the subject matter. SE sites try to attract expert anwers. You aren't actually answering the question here. Suggestion: go back and read the question, in detail, and then answer the question as asked.
– KorvinStarmast
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Question:
Why did Lincoln wait to issue the Declaration of Emancipation?
(Apologies in advance: not being American, while I've read up somewhat about the military aspects of the Civil War, I am somewhat unclear as to its political dimension.)
Lincoln did not declare the slaves free until 1863, despite his personal beliefs.
Did he wait because he was not sure of the political support in the North for accepting Abolition as a war aim, along with stopping Secession? Or did he wait to preserve the possibility of negotiations with the Confederacy? If it was the second reason, is there any indication of what he was willing to compromise on? If the first, what changed?
Background:
In the United States the most meaningful way to end slavery was a constitutional amendment. This takes the most political consensus (2/3rds of the house and Senate and then 3/4th of the states) and is thus the most difficult to implement and reverse. Lincoln achieved the first part of this during the Civil war( Apr 12, 1861 - Apr 9, 1865) with the ratification of of the 13th Amendment to the Constitution by the house and senate. Although it wasn't ratified by 3/4th of the status until , Dec 6, 1865. The Thirteenth amendment was first introduced Dec 1863, and failed to pass in the house on the first vote June 15, 1864 by 13 votes. Lincoln organized a pretty masterful political offensive involving government jobs for outgoing congressmen in a lame duck congress in order to finally pass the amendment. Still it took years and even in Dec of 1865 passing it was not a simple lift.
Lincolns signature of the Presidential order the Emancipation Proclamation Jan 1, 1863 was a political stunt. It was an act who's audience was not domestic. Lincoln knew the next president could easily repeal it, and the current Supreme Court once the crisis of war was over would have likely declared it unconstitutional. It was entirely about politics. Lincoln could not dictate timing for a constitutional amendment, but he could with a presidential order; and that's what he did.
Short Answer:
Why did Lincoln sign it, in order to best preserve the Union. Broadly international politics and secondarily as previous answers have stated waiting for a Union Victory. Now he never really got the Union Victory the Battle of Antietam was tactically and strategically a stalemate and resulted in the top union General McClellan being dismissed from his command. But Lincoln couldn't wait any longer as diplomatically he felt he had to act. Britain and France were making noises about intervention on the side of the South, and the Emancipation Proclamation was a performance for their ears in order to freeze them out. Lincoln didn't want it to look like a desperate act which is why he wanted a victory to be the backdrop for the Executive Order. He didn't get that, but it was close enough.
Detailed Answer:
So Lincoln knew he needed a constitutional Amendment to end slavery in a meaningful way. Why did he sign the Presidential order the Emancipation Proclamation in Jan 1, 1863, knowing the next President could simply repeal Lincolns order? The next President, Andrew Johnson, a slaveholding politician from a Southern state probable would have. Lincoln also knew the supreme court likely would have declared the Emancipation proclamation unconstitutional in the absence of a change to the Constitution.
Lincoln did it to preserve the union. Simple put the American Civil war was fought on many front. Economic, Political, Military, and Diplomatic. It was the diplomatic war which needed Lincoln's action on Jan of 1863. Britain and France were threatening to enter the war on behalf of the Confederate States. Lincoln used the Emancipation Proclamation to reframe the war from one about preserving the Union, into a war to end slavery. That's what the emancipation proclamation did. It announced that ending slavery would be a major goal of the Union in the War. Lincoln knew if the war was framed as one against slavery it would make Britain and France's intervention untenable giving both countries had already abolished slavery Britain(Slavery Abolition Act in 1833) and France (Louis X abolished slavery in 1315, although slavery continued in French Colonies until 1848).
The timing was dictated by politics, and as previous answers said more precisely by a Union victory at Battle of Antietam. Technically Antietam wasn't a victory for the Union it was a stalemate. But after months and months of seeing his armies retreating from the gates of Richmond, seeing Lee retreat from Maryland back into Virginia was represented in the Northern Newspapers as a victory. So Lee used that "victory" to roll out his diplomatic offensive against Britain and French intervention.
Emancipation Proclamation
As Lincoln had hoped, the Proclamation turned foreign popular opinion in favor of the Union by gaining the support of anti-slavery countries and countries that had already abolished slavery (especially the developed countries in Europe such as Great Britain or France). This shift ended the Confederacy's hopes of gaining official recognition.[99]
Since the Emancipation Proclamation made the eradication of slavery an explicit Union war goal, it linked support for the South to support for slavery. Public opinion in Britain would not tolerate direct support for slavery. British companies, however, continued to build and operate blockade runners for the South. As Henry Adams noted, "The Emancipation Proclamation has done more for us than all our former victories and all our diplomacy." In Italy, Giuseppe Garibaldi hailed Lincoln as "the heir of the aspirations of John Brown". On August 6, 1863, Garibaldi wrote to Lincoln: "Posterity will call you the great emancipator, a more enviable title than any crown could be, and greater than any merely mundane treasure".[100]
Mayor Abel Haywood, a representative for workers from Manchester, England, wrote to Lincoln saying, "We joyfully honor you for many decisive steps toward practically exemplifying your belief in the words of your great founders: 'All men are created free and equal.'"[101] The Emancipation Proclamation served to ease tensions with Europe over the North's conduct of the war, and combined with the recent failed Southern offensive at Antietam, to cut off any practical chance for the Confederacy to receive British support in the war.
Sources:
- Thirteenth Amendment
- History of the Thirteenth Amendment
- Emancipation_Proclamation
- Abolitionism
- Battle of Antietam
add a comment |
Question:
Why did Lincoln wait to issue the Declaration of Emancipation?
(Apologies in advance: not being American, while I've read up somewhat about the military aspects of the Civil War, I am somewhat unclear as to its political dimension.)
Lincoln did not declare the slaves free until 1863, despite his personal beliefs.
Did he wait because he was not sure of the political support in the North for accepting Abolition as a war aim, along with stopping Secession? Or did he wait to preserve the possibility of negotiations with the Confederacy? If it was the second reason, is there any indication of what he was willing to compromise on? If the first, what changed?
Background:
In the United States the most meaningful way to end slavery was a constitutional amendment. This takes the most political consensus (2/3rds of the house and Senate and then 3/4th of the states) and is thus the most difficult to implement and reverse. Lincoln achieved the first part of this during the Civil war( Apr 12, 1861 - Apr 9, 1865) with the ratification of of the 13th Amendment to the Constitution by the house and senate. Although it wasn't ratified by 3/4th of the status until , Dec 6, 1865. The Thirteenth amendment was first introduced Dec 1863, and failed to pass in the house on the first vote June 15, 1864 by 13 votes. Lincoln organized a pretty masterful political offensive involving government jobs for outgoing congressmen in a lame duck congress in order to finally pass the amendment. Still it took years and even in Dec of 1865 passing it was not a simple lift.
Lincolns signature of the Presidential order the Emancipation Proclamation Jan 1, 1863 was a political stunt. It was an act who's audience was not domestic. Lincoln knew the next president could easily repeal it, and the current Supreme Court once the crisis of war was over would have likely declared it unconstitutional. It was entirely about politics. Lincoln could not dictate timing for a constitutional amendment, but he could with a presidential order; and that's what he did.
Short Answer:
Why did Lincoln sign it, in order to best preserve the Union. Broadly international politics and secondarily as previous answers have stated waiting for a Union Victory. Now he never really got the Union Victory the Battle of Antietam was tactically and strategically a stalemate and resulted in the top union General McClellan being dismissed from his command. But Lincoln couldn't wait any longer as diplomatically he felt he had to act. Britain and France were making noises about intervention on the side of the South, and the Emancipation Proclamation was a performance for their ears in order to freeze them out. Lincoln didn't want it to look like a desperate act which is why he wanted a victory to be the backdrop for the Executive Order. He didn't get that, but it was close enough.
Detailed Answer:
So Lincoln knew he needed a constitutional Amendment to end slavery in a meaningful way. Why did he sign the Presidential order the Emancipation Proclamation in Jan 1, 1863, knowing the next President could simply repeal Lincolns order? The next President, Andrew Johnson, a slaveholding politician from a Southern state probable would have. Lincoln also knew the supreme court likely would have declared the Emancipation proclamation unconstitutional in the absence of a change to the Constitution.
Lincoln did it to preserve the union. Simple put the American Civil war was fought on many front. Economic, Political, Military, and Diplomatic. It was the diplomatic war which needed Lincoln's action on Jan of 1863. Britain and France were threatening to enter the war on behalf of the Confederate States. Lincoln used the Emancipation Proclamation to reframe the war from one about preserving the Union, into a war to end slavery. That's what the emancipation proclamation did. It announced that ending slavery would be a major goal of the Union in the War. Lincoln knew if the war was framed as one against slavery it would make Britain and France's intervention untenable giving both countries had already abolished slavery Britain(Slavery Abolition Act in 1833) and France (Louis X abolished slavery in 1315, although slavery continued in French Colonies until 1848).
The timing was dictated by politics, and as previous answers said more precisely by a Union victory at Battle of Antietam. Technically Antietam wasn't a victory for the Union it was a stalemate. But after months and months of seeing his armies retreating from the gates of Richmond, seeing Lee retreat from Maryland back into Virginia was represented in the Northern Newspapers as a victory. So Lee used that "victory" to roll out his diplomatic offensive against Britain and French intervention.
Emancipation Proclamation
As Lincoln had hoped, the Proclamation turned foreign popular opinion in favor of the Union by gaining the support of anti-slavery countries and countries that had already abolished slavery (especially the developed countries in Europe such as Great Britain or France). This shift ended the Confederacy's hopes of gaining official recognition.[99]
Since the Emancipation Proclamation made the eradication of slavery an explicit Union war goal, it linked support for the South to support for slavery. Public opinion in Britain would not tolerate direct support for slavery. British companies, however, continued to build and operate blockade runners for the South. As Henry Adams noted, "The Emancipation Proclamation has done more for us than all our former victories and all our diplomacy." In Italy, Giuseppe Garibaldi hailed Lincoln as "the heir of the aspirations of John Brown". On August 6, 1863, Garibaldi wrote to Lincoln: "Posterity will call you the great emancipator, a more enviable title than any crown could be, and greater than any merely mundane treasure".[100]
Mayor Abel Haywood, a representative for workers from Manchester, England, wrote to Lincoln saying, "We joyfully honor you for many decisive steps toward practically exemplifying your belief in the words of your great founders: 'All men are created free and equal.'"[101] The Emancipation Proclamation served to ease tensions with Europe over the North's conduct of the war, and combined with the recent failed Southern offensive at Antietam, to cut off any practical chance for the Confederacy to receive British support in the war.
Sources:
- Thirteenth Amendment
- History of the Thirteenth Amendment
- Emancipation_Proclamation
- Abolitionism
- Battle of Antietam
add a comment |
Question:
Why did Lincoln wait to issue the Declaration of Emancipation?
(Apologies in advance: not being American, while I've read up somewhat about the military aspects of the Civil War, I am somewhat unclear as to its political dimension.)
Lincoln did not declare the slaves free until 1863, despite his personal beliefs.
Did he wait because he was not sure of the political support in the North for accepting Abolition as a war aim, along with stopping Secession? Or did he wait to preserve the possibility of negotiations with the Confederacy? If it was the second reason, is there any indication of what he was willing to compromise on? If the first, what changed?
Background:
In the United States the most meaningful way to end slavery was a constitutional amendment. This takes the most political consensus (2/3rds of the house and Senate and then 3/4th of the states) and is thus the most difficult to implement and reverse. Lincoln achieved the first part of this during the Civil war( Apr 12, 1861 - Apr 9, 1865) with the ratification of of the 13th Amendment to the Constitution by the house and senate. Although it wasn't ratified by 3/4th of the status until , Dec 6, 1865. The Thirteenth amendment was first introduced Dec 1863, and failed to pass in the house on the first vote June 15, 1864 by 13 votes. Lincoln organized a pretty masterful political offensive involving government jobs for outgoing congressmen in a lame duck congress in order to finally pass the amendment. Still it took years and even in Dec of 1865 passing it was not a simple lift.
Lincolns signature of the Presidential order the Emancipation Proclamation Jan 1, 1863 was a political stunt. It was an act who's audience was not domestic. Lincoln knew the next president could easily repeal it, and the current Supreme Court once the crisis of war was over would have likely declared it unconstitutional. It was entirely about politics. Lincoln could not dictate timing for a constitutional amendment, but he could with a presidential order; and that's what he did.
Short Answer:
Why did Lincoln sign it, in order to best preserve the Union. Broadly international politics and secondarily as previous answers have stated waiting for a Union Victory. Now he never really got the Union Victory the Battle of Antietam was tactically and strategically a stalemate and resulted in the top union General McClellan being dismissed from his command. But Lincoln couldn't wait any longer as diplomatically he felt he had to act. Britain and France were making noises about intervention on the side of the South, and the Emancipation Proclamation was a performance for their ears in order to freeze them out. Lincoln didn't want it to look like a desperate act which is why he wanted a victory to be the backdrop for the Executive Order. He didn't get that, but it was close enough.
Detailed Answer:
So Lincoln knew he needed a constitutional Amendment to end slavery in a meaningful way. Why did he sign the Presidential order the Emancipation Proclamation in Jan 1, 1863, knowing the next President could simply repeal Lincolns order? The next President, Andrew Johnson, a slaveholding politician from a Southern state probable would have. Lincoln also knew the supreme court likely would have declared the Emancipation proclamation unconstitutional in the absence of a change to the Constitution.
Lincoln did it to preserve the union. Simple put the American Civil war was fought on many front. Economic, Political, Military, and Diplomatic. It was the diplomatic war which needed Lincoln's action on Jan of 1863. Britain and France were threatening to enter the war on behalf of the Confederate States. Lincoln used the Emancipation Proclamation to reframe the war from one about preserving the Union, into a war to end slavery. That's what the emancipation proclamation did. It announced that ending slavery would be a major goal of the Union in the War. Lincoln knew if the war was framed as one against slavery it would make Britain and France's intervention untenable giving both countries had already abolished slavery Britain(Slavery Abolition Act in 1833) and France (Louis X abolished slavery in 1315, although slavery continued in French Colonies until 1848).
The timing was dictated by politics, and as previous answers said more precisely by a Union victory at Battle of Antietam. Technically Antietam wasn't a victory for the Union it was a stalemate. But after months and months of seeing his armies retreating from the gates of Richmond, seeing Lee retreat from Maryland back into Virginia was represented in the Northern Newspapers as a victory. So Lee used that "victory" to roll out his diplomatic offensive against Britain and French intervention.
Emancipation Proclamation
As Lincoln had hoped, the Proclamation turned foreign popular opinion in favor of the Union by gaining the support of anti-slavery countries and countries that had already abolished slavery (especially the developed countries in Europe such as Great Britain or France). This shift ended the Confederacy's hopes of gaining official recognition.[99]
Since the Emancipation Proclamation made the eradication of slavery an explicit Union war goal, it linked support for the South to support for slavery. Public opinion in Britain would not tolerate direct support for slavery. British companies, however, continued to build and operate blockade runners for the South. As Henry Adams noted, "The Emancipation Proclamation has done more for us than all our former victories and all our diplomacy." In Italy, Giuseppe Garibaldi hailed Lincoln as "the heir of the aspirations of John Brown". On August 6, 1863, Garibaldi wrote to Lincoln: "Posterity will call you the great emancipator, a more enviable title than any crown could be, and greater than any merely mundane treasure".[100]
Mayor Abel Haywood, a representative for workers from Manchester, England, wrote to Lincoln saying, "We joyfully honor you for many decisive steps toward practically exemplifying your belief in the words of your great founders: 'All men are created free and equal.'"[101] The Emancipation Proclamation served to ease tensions with Europe over the North's conduct of the war, and combined with the recent failed Southern offensive at Antietam, to cut off any practical chance for the Confederacy to receive British support in the war.
Sources:
- Thirteenth Amendment
- History of the Thirteenth Amendment
- Emancipation_Proclamation
- Abolitionism
- Battle of Antietam
Question:
Why did Lincoln wait to issue the Declaration of Emancipation?
(Apologies in advance: not being American, while I've read up somewhat about the military aspects of the Civil War, I am somewhat unclear as to its political dimension.)
Lincoln did not declare the slaves free until 1863, despite his personal beliefs.
Did he wait because he was not sure of the political support in the North for accepting Abolition as a war aim, along with stopping Secession? Or did he wait to preserve the possibility of negotiations with the Confederacy? If it was the second reason, is there any indication of what he was willing to compromise on? If the first, what changed?
Background:
In the United States the most meaningful way to end slavery was a constitutional amendment. This takes the most political consensus (2/3rds of the house and Senate and then 3/4th of the states) and is thus the most difficult to implement and reverse. Lincoln achieved the first part of this during the Civil war( Apr 12, 1861 - Apr 9, 1865) with the ratification of of the 13th Amendment to the Constitution by the house and senate. Although it wasn't ratified by 3/4th of the status until , Dec 6, 1865. The Thirteenth amendment was first introduced Dec 1863, and failed to pass in the house on the first vote June 15, 1864 by 13 votes. Lincoln organized a pretty masterful political offensive involving government jobs for outgoing congressmen in a lame duck congress in order to finally pass the amendment. Still it took years and even in Dec of 1865 passing it was not a simple lift.
Lincolns signature of the Presidential order the Emancipation Proclamation Jan 1, 1863 was a political stunt. It was an act who's audience was not domestic. Lincoln knew the next president could easily repeal it, and the current Supreme Court once the crisis of war was over would have likely declared it unconstitutional. It was entirely about politics. Lincoln could not dictate timing for a constitutional amendment, but he could with a presidential order; and that's what he did.
Short Answer:
Why did Lincoln sign it, in order to best preserve the Union. Broadly international politics and secondarily as previous answers have stated waiting for a Union Victory. Now he never really got the Union Victory the Battle of Antietam was tactically and strategically a stalemate and resulted in the top union General McClellan being dismissed from his command. But Lincoln couldn't wait any longer as diplomatically he felt he had to act. Britain and France were making noises about intervention on the side of the South, and the Emancipation Proclamation was a performance for their ears in order to freeze them out. Lincoln didn't want it to look like a desperate act which is why he wanted a victory to be the backdrop for the Executive Order. He didn't get that, but it was close enough.
Detailed Answer:
So Lincoln knew he needed a constitutional Amendment to end slavery in a meaningful way. Why did he sign the Presidential order the Emancipation Proclamation in Jan 1, 1863, knowing the next President could simply repeal Lincolns order? The next President, Andrew Johnson, a slaveholding politician from a Southern state probable would have. Lincoln also knew the supreme court likely would have declared the Emancipation proclamation unconstitutional in the absence of a change to the Constitution.
Lincoln did it to preserve the union. Simple put the American Civil war was fought on many front. Economic, Political, Military, and Diplomatic. It was the diplomatic war which needed Lincoln's action on Jan of 1863. Britain and France were threatening to enter the war on behalf of the Confederate States. Lincoln used the Emancipation Proclamation to reframe the war from one about preserving the Union, into a war to end slavery. That's what the emancipation proclamation did. It announced that ending slavery would be a major goal of the Union in the War. Lincoln knew if the war was framed as one against slavery it would make Britain and France's intervention untenable giving both countries had already abolished slavery Britain(Slavery Abolition Act in 1833) and France (Louis X abolished slavery in 1315, although slavery continued in French Colonies until 1848).
The timing was dictated by politics, and as previous answers said more precisely by a Union victory at Battle of Antietam. Technically Antietam wasn't a victory for the Union it was a stalemate. But after months and months of seeing his armies retreating from the gates of Richmond, seeing Lee retreat from Maryland back into Virginia was represented in the Northern Newspapers as a victory. So Lee used that "victory" to roll out his diplomatic offensive against Britain and French intervention.
Emancipation Proclamation
As Lincoln had hoped, the Proclamation turned foreign popular opinion in favor of the Union by gaining the support of anti-slavery countries and countries that had already abolished slavery (especially the developed countries in Europe such as Great Britain or France). This shift ended the Confederacy's hopes of gaining official recognition.[99]
Since the Emancipation Proclamation made the eradication of slavery an explicit Union war goal, it linked support for the South to support for slavery. Public opinion in Britain would not tolerate direct support for slavery. British companies, however, continued to build and operate blockade runners for the South. As Henry Adams noted, "The Emancipation Proclamation has done more for us than all our former victories and all our diplomacy." In Italy, Giuseppe Garibaldi hailed Lincoln as "the heir of the aspirations of John Brown". On August 6, 1863, Garibaldi wrote to Lincoln: "Posterity will call you the great emancipator, a more enviable title than any crown could be, and greater than any merely mundane treasure".[100]
Mayor Abel Haywood, a representative for workers from Manchester, England, wrote to Lincoln saying, "We joyfully honor you for many decisive steps toward practically exemplifying your belief in the words of your great founders: 'All men are created free and equal.'"[101] The Emancipation Proclamation served to ease tensions with Europe over the North's conduct of the war, and combined with the recent failed Southern offensive at Antietam, to cut off any practical chance for the Confederacy to receive British support in the war.
Sources:
- Thirteenth Amendment
- History of the Thirteenth Amendment
- Emancipation_Proclamation
- Abolitionism
- Battle of Antietam
edited 8 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
JMSJMS
13.4k336105
13.4k336105
add a comment |
add a comment |
If President Lincoln had been so concerned about slavery being abolished, then he would have abolished it in the "Union" at the onset of the war--thereby abolishing it in Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri 5 years earlier. Moreover, the Emancipation Proclamation as an executive order which was not executed for over 3 months after the famous speech and it explicitly freed slaves only in Confederate states--not Union states! Technically, the executive order was not legal itself, albeit a moral one, because it was not implementing any law (a.k.a., statute, provision, or treaty).1
If the "abolitionist" states had been so against slavery, then the second largest domestic trade city would not have been Baltimore, Maryland for over 50 years.2
The taxation of slavery was the main cause of the secession of the Confederate states, not slavery itself. If the war was just about whether slavery should be abolished, sociologists could not explain how/why millions of men would fight to the death to keep something legal they could never hope to afford. A healthy horse cost more than an average slave and most combatants could not afford a horse. Owning slaves was only worthwhile if they could work them on a farm or other business which would cost much more to purchase or establish.
Lastly, the war was not a civil war because the United States was previously a union of states/countries each with their own constitutions and currencies, not a country itself--imagine the E.U. without the Euro. To this day, the word for "state" in many languages translates to "country" (e.g. Islamic states). Only the modern use of the word "state" in the U.S. and Mexico has connoted a constituent member of a country.
In summary, your confusion is the result of President Lincoln not having much concern at all for freeing slaves, but concern for preserving his legacy. The secession of 7 states happened shortly after his inauguration, he mobilized military forces to coerce them back into the fold, then 4 more states seceded as a result. He knew that if the "Union" were not "preserved", history would hold him accountable. He also did not care how many laws he broke preserving his legacy.[3][4]
Footnote: When I read these question and answers on the Internet, I usually just shake my head, but I had to respond to this one. Countless answerers will tell you that the "Civil War" was only about slavery and its abolishment. There are too many historical facts that are incomplete retrograde to support this. For example, blacks fighting in the Confederate Army (corroborated by Lincoln's war advisors). Regardless of the small number, imagine Northern Irishmen joining the British Army with the express intent of keeping their fellow Northern Irishmen under British rule--the supposition is ludicrous!
[3]: "The Body of John Merryman: Abraham Lincoln and the Suspension of Habeas Corpus", ISBN-13: 9780674063259
[4]: "Lincoln and Chief Justice Taney: Slavery, Secession, and the President's War Powers", ISBN-13: 9780743250320
New contributor
3
Lincoln did not have the power to free any slaves held by others. That would take legislation on a state by state basis or a Constitutional amendment. The Emancipation Proclamation was basically an order by the commander-in-chief of the Army about what to do with rebel property, and therefore didn't need to be implementing a law. As far as slavery being the cause of the war, read the various secession announcements and examine the Confederate Constitution. Then you can speculate why most Southerners went along with secession.
– David Thornley
14 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "The taxation of slavery was the main cause of the secession" could you please provide some specifics about taxation of slavery by federal government after 1807, when importation of slaves was ended? I don't remember "the taxation of slavery" was mentioned in declaration of causes of secession by any seceding state.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "union of states/countries each with their own constitutions and currencies" - By the beginning of the war a lot of banks issued their own currency; would you consider such bank as a country? With no right to "enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation", "coin Money; emit Bills of Credit", with no right at their own will "lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power", these states hardly could be considered as countries.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "The secession of 7 states happened shortly after his inauguration, he mobilized military forces to coerce them back into the fold" You are mistaken, 7 states seceded way before his inauguration, they even formed Confederacy weeks before inauguration. Oh, and you forgot to mention, that BEFORE Lincoln mobilized military forces to deal with Confederacy, this new neighbor announced creation of 100,000 strong army (5 times bigger than Union army at the time), started to mobilize and deploy this army by Union military installation, and bombarded Union fort with military garrison
– Alexander Barhavin
1 hour ago
add a comment |
If President Lincoln had been so concerned about slavery being abolished, then he would have abolished it in the "Union" at the onset of the war--thereby abolishing it in Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri 5 years earlier. Moreover, the Emancipation Proclamation as an executive order which was not executed for over 3 months after the famous speech and it explicitly freed slaves only in Confederate states--not Union states! Technically, the executive order was not legal itself, albeit a moral one, because it was not implementing any law (a.k.a., statute, provision, or treaty).1
If the "abolitionist" states had been so against slavery, then the second largest domestic trade city would not have been Baltimore, Maryland for over 50 years.2
The taxation of slavery was the main cause of the secession of the Confederate states, not slavery itself. If the war was just about whether slavery should be abolished, sociologists could not explain how/why millions of men would fight to the death to keep something legal they could never hope to afford. A healthy horse cost more than an average slave and most combatants could not afford a horse. Owning slaves was only worthwhile if they could work them on a farm or other business which would cost much more to purchase or establish.
Lastly, the war was not a civil war because the United States was previously a union of states/countries each with their own constitutions and currencies, not a country itself--imagine the E.U. without the Euro. To this day, the word for "state" in many languages translates to "country" (e.g. Islamic states). Only the modern use of the word "state" in the U.S. and Mexico has connoted a constituent member of a country.
In summary, your confusion is the result of President Lincoln not having much concern at all for freeing slaves, but concern for preserving his legacy. The secession of 7 states happened shortly after his inauguration, he mobilized military forces to coerce them back into the fold, then 4 more states seceded as a result. He knew that if the "Union" were not "preserved", history would hold him accountable. He also did not care how many laws he broke preserving his legacy.[3][4]
Footnote: When I read these question and answers on the Internet, I usually just shake my head, but I had to respond to this one. Countless answerers will tell you that the "Civil War" was only about slavery and its abolishment. There are too many historical facts that are incomplete retrograde to support this. For example, blacks fighting in the Confederate Army (corroborated by Lincoln's war advisors). Regardless of the small number, imagine Northern Irishmen joining the British Army with the express intent of keeping their fellow Northern Irishmen under British rule--the supposition is ludicrous!
[3]: "The Body of John Merryman: Abraham Lincoln and the Suspension of Habeas Corpus", ISBN-13: 9780674063259
[4]: "Lincoln and Chief Justice Taney: Slavery, Secession, and the President's War Powers", ISBN-13: 9780743250320
New contributor
3
Lincoln did not have the power to free any slaves held by others. That would take legislation on a state by state basis or a Constitutional amendment. The Emancipation Proclamation was basically an order by the commander-in-chief of the Army about what to do with rebel property, and therefore didn't need to be implementing a law. As far as slavery being the cause of the war, read the various secession announcements and examine the Confederate Constitution. Then you can speculate why most Southerners went along with secession.
– David Thornley
14 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "The taxation of slavery was the main cause of the secession" could you please provide some specifics about taxation of slavery by federal government after 1807, when importation of slaves was ended? I don't remember "the taxation of slavery" was mentioned in declaration of causes of secession by any seceding state.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "union of states/countries each with their own constitutions and currencies" - By the beginning of the war a lot of banks issued their own currency; would you consider such bank as a country? With no right to "enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation", "coin Money; emit Bills of Credit", with no right at their own will "lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power", these states hardly could be considered as countries.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "The secession of 7 states happened shortly after his inauguration, he mobilized military forces to coerce them back into the fold" You are mistaken, 7 states seceded way before his inauguration, they even formed Confederacy weeks before inauguration. Oh, and you forgot to mention, that BEFORE Lincoln mobilized military forces to deal with Confederacy, this new neighbor announced creation of 100,000 strong army (5 times bigger than Union army at the time), started to mobilize and deploy this army by Union military installation, and bombarded Union fort with military garrison
– Alexander Barhavin
1 hour ago
add a comment |
If President Lincoln had been so concerned about slavery being abolished, then he would have abolished it in the "Union" at the onset of the war--thereby abolishing it in Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri 5 years earlier. Moreover, the Emancipation Proclamation as an executive order which was not executed for over 3 months after the famous speech and it explicitly freed slaves only in Confederate states--not Union states! Technically, the executive order was not legal itself, albeit a moral one, because it was not implementing any law (a.k.a., statute, provision, or treaty).1
If the "abolitionist" states had been so against slavery, then the second largest domestic trade city would not have been Baltimore, Maryland for over 50 years.2
The taxation of slavery was the main cause of the secession of the Confederate states, not slavery itself. If the war was just about whether slavery should be abolished, sociologists could not explain how/why millions of men would fight to the death to keep something legal they could never hope to afford. A healthy horse cost more than an average slave and most combatants could not afford a horse. Owning slaves was only worthwhile if they could work them on a farm or other business which would cost much more to purchase or establish.
Lastly, the war was not a civil war because the United States was previously a union of states/countries each with their own constitutions and currencies, not a country itself--imagine the E.U. without the Euro. To this day, the word for "state" in many languages translates to "country" (e.g. Islamic states). Only the modern use of the word "state" in the U.S. and Mexico has connoted a constituent member of a country.
In summary, your confusion is the result of President Lincoln not having much concern at all for freeing slaves, but concern for preserving his legacy. The secession of 7 states happened shortly after his inauguration, he mobilized military forces to coerce them back into the fold, then 4 more states seceded as a result. He knew that if the "Union" were not "preserved", history would hold him accountable. He also did not care how many laws he broke preserving his legacy.[3][4]
Footnote: When I read these question and answers on the Internet, I usually just shake my head, but I had to respond to this one. Countless answerers will tell you that the "Civil War" was only about slavery and its abolishment. There are too many historical facts that are incomplete retrograde to support this. For example, blacks fighting in the Confederate Army (corroborated by Lincoln's war advisors). Regardless of the small number, imagine Northern Irishmen joining the British Army with the express intent of keeping their fellow Northern Irishmen under British rule--the supposition is ludicrous!
[3]: "The Body of John Merryman: Abraham Lincoln and the Suspension of Habeas Corpus", ISBN-13: 9780674063259
[4]: "Lincoln and Chief Justice Taney: Slavery, Secession, and the President's War Powers", ISBN-13: 9780743250320
New contributor
If President Lincoln had been so concerned about slavery being abolished, then he would have abolished it in the "Union" at the onset of the war--thereby abolishing it in Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri 5 years earlier. Moreover, the Emancipation Proclamation as an executive order which was not executed for over 3 months after the famous speech and it explicitly freed slaves only in Confederate states--not Union states! Technically, the executive order was not legal itself, albeit a moral one, because it was not implementing any law (a.k.a., statute, provision, or treaty).1
If the "abolitionist" states had been so against slavery, then the second largest domestic trade city would not have been Baltimore, Maryland for over 50 years.2
The taxation of slavery was the main cause of the secession of the Confederate states, not slavery itself. If the war was just about whether slavery should be abolished, sociologists could not explain how/why millions of men would fight to the death to keep something legal they could never hope to afford. A healthy horse cost more than an average slave and most combatants could not afford a horse. Owning slaves was only worthwhile if they could work them on a farm or other business which would cost much more to purchase or establish.
Lastly, the war was not a civil war because the United States was previously a union of states/countries each with their own constitutions and currencies, not a country itself--imagine the E.U. without the Euro. To this day, the word for "state" in many languages translates to "country" (e.g. Islamic states). Only the modern use of the word "state" in the U.S. and Mexico has connoted a constituent member of a country.
In summary, your confusion is the result of President Lincoln not having much concern at all for freeing slaves, but concern for preserving his legacy. The secession of 7 states happened shortly after his inauguration, he mobilized military forces to coerce them back into the fold, then 4 more states seceded as a result. He knew that if the "Union" were not "preserved", history would hold him accountable. He also did not care how many laws he broke preserving his legacy.[3][4]
Footnote: When I read these question and answers on the Internet, I usually just shake my head, but I had to respond to this one. Countless answerers will tell you that the "Civil War" was only about slavery and its abolishment. There are too many historical facts that are incomplete retrograde to support this. For example, blacks fighting in the Confederate Army (corroborated by Lincoln's war advisors). Regardless of the small number, imagine Northern Irishmen joining the British Army with the express intent of keeping their fellow Northern Irishmen under British rule--the supposition is ludicrous!
[3]: "The Body of John Merryman: Abraham Lincoln and the Suspension of Habeas Corpus", ISBN-13: 9780674063259
[4]: "Lincoln and Chief Justice Taney: Slavery, Secession, and the President's War Powers", ISBN-13: 9780743250320
New contributor
New contributor
answered yesterday
MarkMYoungMarkMYoung
91
91
New contributor
New contributor
3
Lincoln did not have the power to free any slaves held by others. That would take legislation on a state by state basis or a Constitutional amendment. The Emancipation Proclamation was basically an order by the commander-in-chief of the Army about what to do with rebel property, and therefore didn't need to be implementing a law. As far as slavery being the cause of the war, read the various secession announcements and examine the Confederate Constitution. Then you can speculate why most Southerners went along with secession.
– David Thornley
14 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "The taxation of slavery was the main cause of the secession" could you please provide some specifics about taxation of slavery by federal government after 1807, when importation of slaves was ended? I don't remember "the taxation of slavery" was mentioned in declaration of causes of secession by any seceding state.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "union of states/countries each with their own constitutions and currencies" - By the beginning of the war a lot of banks issued their own currency; would you consider such bank as a country? With no right to "enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation", "coin Money; emit Bills of Credit", with no right at their own will "lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power", these states hardly could be considered as countries.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "The secession of 7 states happened shortly after his inauguration, he mobilized military forces to coerce them back into the fold" You are mistaken, 7 states seceded way before his inauguration, they even formed Confederacy weeks before inauguration. Oh, and you forgot to mention, that BEFORE Lincoln mobilized military forces to deal with Confederacy, this new neighbor announced creation of 100,000 strong army (5 times bigger than Union army at the time), started to mobilize and deploy this army by Union military installation, and bombarded Union fort with military garrison
– Alexander Barhavin
1 hour ago
add a comment |
3
Lincoln did not have the power to free any slaves held by others. That would take legislation on a state by state basis or a Constitutional amendment. The Emancipation Proclamation was basically an order by the commander-in-chief of the Army about what to do with rebel property, and therefore didn't need to be implementing a law. As far as slavery being the cause of the war, read the various secession announcements and examine the Confederate Constitution. Then you can speculate why most Southerners went along with secession.
– David Thornley
14 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "The taxation of slavery was the main cause of the secession" could you please provide some specifics about taxation of slavery by federal government after 1807, when importation of slaves was ended? I don't remember "the taxation of slavery" was mentioned in declaration of causes of secession by any seceding state.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "union of states/countries each with their own constitutions and currencies" - By the beginning of the war a lot of banks issued their own currency; would you consider such bank as a country? With no right to "enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation", "coin Money; emit Bills of Credit", with no right at their own will "lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power", these states hardly could be considered as countries.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "The secession of 7 states happened shortly after his inauguration, he mobilized military forces to coerce them back into the fold" You are mistaken, 7 states seceded way before his inauguration, they even formed Confederacy weeks before inauguration. Oh, and you forgot to mention, that BEFORE Lincoln mobilized military forces to deal with Confederacy, this new neighbor announced creation of 100,000 strong army (5 times bigger than Union army at the time), started to mobilize and deploy this army by Union military installation, and bombarded Union fort with military garrison
– Alexander Barhavin
1 hour ago
3
3
Lincoln did not have the power to free any slaves held by others. That would take legislation on a state by state basis or a Constitutional amendment. The Emancipation Proclamation was basically an order by the commander-in-chief of the Army about what to do with rebel property, and therefore didn't need to be implementing a law. As far as slavery being the cause of the war, read the various secession announcements and examine the Confederate Constitution. Then you can speculate why most Southerners went along with secession.
– David Thornley
14 hours ago
Lincoln did not have the power to free any slaves held by others. That would take legislation on a state by state basis or a Constitutional amendment. The Emancipation Proclamation was basically an order by the commander-in-chief of the Army about what to do with rebel property, and therefore didn't need to be implementing a law. As far as slavery being the cause of the war, read the various secession announcements and examine the Confederate Constitution. Then you can speculate why most Southerners went along with secession.
– David Thornley
14 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "The taxation of slavery was the main cause of the secession" could you please provide some specifics about taxation of slavery by federal government after 1807, when importation of slaves was ended? I don't remember "the taxation of slavery" was mentioned in declaration of causes of secession by any seceding state.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "The taxation of slavery was the main cause of the secession" could you please provide some specifics about taxation of slavery by federal government after 1807, when importation of slaves was ended? I don't remember "the taxation of slavery" was mentioned in declaration of causes of secession by any seceding state.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "union of states/countries each with their own constitutions and currencies" - By the beginning of the war a lot of banks issued their own currency; would you consider such bank as a country? With no right to "enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation", "coin Money; emit Bills of Credit", with no right at their own will "lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power", these states hardly could be considered as countries.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "union of states/countries each with their own constitutions and currencies" - By the beginning of the war a lot of banks issued their own currency; would you consider such bank as a country? With no right to "enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation", "coin Money; emit Bills of Credit", with no right at their own will "lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power", these states hardly could be considered as countries.
– Alexander Barhavin
2 hours ago
@MarkMYoung "The secession of 7 states happened shortly after his inauguration, he mobilized military forces to coerce them back into the fold" You are mistaken, 7 states seceded way before his inauguration, they even formed Confederacy weeks before inauguration. Oh, and you forgot to mention, that BEFORE Lincoln mobilized military forces to deal with Confederacy, this new neighbor announced creation of 100,000 strong army (5 times bigger than Union army at the time), started to mobilize and deploy this army by Union military installation, and bombarded Union fort with military garrison
– Alexander Barhavin
1 hour ago
@MarkMYoung "The secession of 7 states happened shortly after his inauguration, he mobilized military forces to coerce them back into the fold" You are mistaken, 7 states seceded way before his inauguration, they even formed Confederacy weeks before inauguration. Oh, and you forgot to mention, that BEFORE Lincoln mobilized military forces to deal with Confederacy, this new neighbor announced creation of 100,000 strong army (5 times bigger than Union army at the time), started to mobilize and deploy this army by Union military installation, and bombarded Union fort with military garrison
– Alexander Barhavin
1 hour ago
add a comment |
We learned about this recently in my APUSH class and we said one reason he issued it was to help end the civil war. He knew that by freeing the slaves they would help the fight. Look at the 54th Massachusetts reiment.😀
New contributor
Also he waited because he thought the North would win without having to free the slaves. He realized that if he didn't free the slaves the South might win after, I believe, the battle of Gettysburg
– Raven
yesterday
add a comment |
We learned about this recently in my APUSH class and we said one reason he issued it was to help end the civil war. He knew that by freeing the slaves they would help the fight. Look at the 54th Massachusetts reiment.😀
New contributor
Also he waited because he thought the North would win without having to free the slaves. He realized that if he didn't free the slaves the South might win after, I believe, the battle of Gettysburg
– Raven
yesterday
add a comment |
We learned about this recently in my APUSH class and we said one reason he issued it was to help end the civil war. He knew that by freeing the slaves they would help the fight. Look at the 54th Massachusetts reiment.😀
New contributor
We learned about this recently in my APUSH class and we said one reason he issued it was to help end the civil war. He knew that by freeing the slaves they would help the fight. Look at the 54th Massachusetts reiment.😀
New contributor
New contributor
answered yesterday
Raven Raven
1
1
New contributor
New contributor
Also he waited because he thought the North would win without having to free the slaves. He realized that if he didn't free the slaves the South might win after, I believe, the battle of Gettysburg
– Raven
yesterday
add a comment |
Also he waited because he thought the North would win without having to free the slaves. He realized that if he didn't free the slaves the South might win after, I believe, the battle of Gettysburg
– Raven
yesterday
Also he waited because he thought the North would win without having to free the slaves. He realized that if he didn't free the slaves the South might win after, I believe, the battle of Gettysburg
– Raven
yesterday
Also he waited because he thought the North would win without having to free the slaves. He realized that if he didn't free the slaves the South might win after, I believe, the battle of Gettysburg
– Raven
yesterday
add a comment |
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Lincoln didn't actually have the power to free slaves. Basically, what he did was declare any slaves in the states in rebellion, as with other property, spoils of war (booty), thus declaring ownership of those slaves for the federal government, and then they could be freed. That did nothing for the slaves that were in the states not in rebellion. It took an amendment to the Constitution to actually end slavery, and that didn't happen until after the war.
– Ron Maupin
2 days ago
3
The movie Lincoln is worth watching. In it, President Lincoln admits that the Emancipation Proclamation was based on tortured logic that would never stand up to judicial review, and was mostly only good as a symbolic gesture to throw a wrench in the gears of the Confederacy, which is why they needed a Constitutional amendment to actually free the slaves and make it work.
– Mason Wheeler
2 days ago
3
@RonMaupin: That should be an answer.
– Ben Crowell
2 days ago
1
@BenCrowell, it doesn't directly answer the question about the timing, which is why I put it as a comment. I thought it was good auxiliary information, but the question is actually different.
– Ron Maupin
2 days ago
7
@MasonWheeler: That's a great movie, but it's not completely historically accurate. The fact that the "President Lincoln" character "admits" something in that movie does not necessarily mean that the real President Lincoln admitted it, or would have admitted it, or believed it.
– ruakh
2 days ago