Is Screenshot Time-tracking Common?
I am a freelance developer. When I work on projects for a client I tend to bill to the half-hour, which has been fine. Additionally, I do my best to track each type of thing "research", "coding", "lunch", "break", etc so the client can see an itemized version of my hourly. This seems to bring them some comfort.
Recently, I've had a few clients approach me but ask that I use screenshotting and/or keylogging on my home computer (which is also my work computer). Naturally, this makes me uncomfortable. The client thinks I am lazy. To me,
- the risk of exposing another clients work via (2) - software becomes unpatched leaving a giant hole in my system or a screenshot of a chat with another client
- security implications of installing nanny-software that is effectively a RAT
- the direct implication the client does not trust me
really bother me.
Bringing up my portfolio of satisfied clients (who do not use tracking) does not seem persuasive. If you do not trust me, why would you take the time to hire me? I am not desperate for work.
I have been in the industry a number of years at this point. I have delivered a lot of software on time and on budget. I know when hours are "deserved" vs "I overshot this, I guess I'll give them some hours for free".
Is this type of requirement common? Should I just suck it up because it's work? It makes me very uncomfortable. It signals to me a "sweat shop" mentality driven by micromanaging metrics rather than getting good software at an agreed upon price. Do people request a video feed of their mechanic fixing their car? Do they request an itemized hourly report of the mechanic they paid a ton of money for? It seems like this problem is unique to software.
software-industry freelancing
asked 3 hours ago
CL40CL40
1382
New contributor
CL40 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
I am a freelance developer. When I work on projects for a client I tend to bill to the half-hour, which has been fine. Additionally, I do my best to track each type of thing "research", "coding", "lunch", "break", etc so the client can see an itemized version of my hourly. This seems to bring them some comfort.
Recently, I've had a few clients approach me but ask that I use screenshotting and/or keylogging on my home computer (which is also my work computer). Naturally, this makes me uncomfortable. The client thinks I am lazy. To me,
- the risk of exposing another clients work via (2) - software becomes unpatched leaving a giant hole in my system or a screenshot of a chat with another client
- security implications of installing nanny-software that is effectively a RAT
- the direct implication the client does not trust me
really bother me.
Bringing up my portfolio of satisfied clients (who do not use tracking) does not seem persuasive. If you do not trust me, why would you take the time to hire me? I am not desperate for work.
I have been in the industry a number of years at this point. I have delivered a lot of software on time and on budget. I know when hours are "deserved" vs "I overshot this, I guess I'll give them some hours for free".
Is this type of requirement common? Should I just suck it up because it's work? It makes me very uncomfortable. It signals to me a "sweat shop" mentality driven by micromanaging metrics rather than getting good software at an agreed upon price. Do people request a video feed of their mechanic fixing their car? Do they request an itemized hourly report of the mechanic they paid a ton of money for? It seems like this problem is unique to software.
software-industry freelancing
asked 3 hours ago
CL40CL40
1382
New contributor
CL40 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
I am a freelance developer. When I work on projects for a client I tend to bill to the half-hour, which has been fine. Additionally, I do my best to track each type of thing "research", "coding", "lunch", "break", etc so the client can see an itemized version of my hourly. This seems to bring them some comfort.
Recently, I've had a few clients approach me but ask that I use screenshotting and/or keylogging on my home computer (which is also my work computer). Naturally, this makes me uncomfortable. The client thinks I am lazy. To me,
- the risk of exposing another clients work via (2) - software becomes unpatched leaving a giant hole in my system or a screenshot of a chat with another client
- security implications of installing nanny-software that is effectively a RAT
- the direct implication the client does not trust me
really bother me.
Bringing up my portfolio of satisfied clients (who do not use tracking) does not seem persuasive. If you do not trust me, why would you take the time to hire me? I am not desperate for work.
I have been in the industry a number of years at this point. I have delivered a lot of software on time and on budget. I know when hours are "deserved" vs "I overshot this, I guess I'll give them some hours for free".
Is this type of requirement common? Should I just suck it up because it's work? It makes me very uncomfortable. It signals to me a "sweat shop" mentality driven by micromanaging metrics rather than getting good software at an agreed upon price. Do people request a video feed of their mechanic fixing their car? Do they request an itemized hourly report of the mechanic they paid a ton of money for? It seems like this problem is unique to software.
software-industry freelancing
asked 3 hours ago
CL40CL40
1382
New contributor
CL40 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
I am a freelance developer. When I work on projects for a client I tend to bill to the half-hour, which has been fine. Additionally, I do my best to track each type of thing "research", "coding", "lunch", "break", etc so the client can see an itemized version of my hourly. This seems to bring them some comfort.
Recently, I've had a few clients approach me but ask that I use screenshotting and/or keylogging on my home computer (which is also my work computer). Naturally, this makes me uncomfortable. The client thinks I am lazy. To me,
- the risk of exposing another clients work via (2) - software becomes unpatched leaving a giant hole in my system or a screenshot of a chat with another client
- security implications of installing nanny-software that is effectively a RAT
- the direct implication the client does not trust me
really bother me.
Bringing up my portfolio of satisfied clients (who do not use tracking) does not seem persuasive. If you do not trust me, why would you take the time to hire me? I am not desperate for work.
I have been in the industry a number of years at this point. I have delivered a lot of software on time and on budget. I know when hours are "deserved" vs "I overshot this, I guess I'll give them some hours for free".
Is this type of requirement common? Should I just suck it up because it's work? It makes me very uncomfortable. It signals to me a "sweat shop" mentality driven by micromanaging metrics rather than getting good software at an agreed upon price. Do people request a video feed of their mechanic fixing their car? Do they request an itemized hourly report of the mechanic they paid a ton of money for? It seems like this problem is unique to software.
software-industry freelancing
software-industry freelancing
asked 3 hours ago
CL40CL40
1382
New contributor
CL40 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 3 hours ago
CL40CL40
1382
New contributor
CL40 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 3 hours ago
CL40CL40
1382
New contributor
CL40 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 3 hours ago
CL40CL40
1382
asked 3 hours ago
CL40CL40
1382
1382
New contributor
CL40 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
CL40 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
CL40 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Is this type of requirement common?
No it isn't. It's also a security issue and a sign of a problematic client. Unless you're desperate for the work I'd just refuse.
The major advantage of freelancing is that you pick your clients, your times and your conditions (these should always be clearly defined and agreed at the outset). If you allow a client to impinge on these you lose part of your advantage and your future negotiating status is lessened.
answered 2 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
119k67261457
Agreed. This is uncommon and unusual. I would not take on a client that had this as a requirement.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
1
I agree and would even go stronger. They are already signaling that they are going to dispute OP's labor charges. Even if OP is desperate, it is still better to be idle than work for nothing.
– emory
16 mins ago
add a comment |
the risk of exposing another clients work via (2) - software becomes unpatched leaving a giant hole in my system or a screenshot of a chat with another client
This is why I will not use screen-logging software, and I do not know of a single free-lancer who will allow it on their computer.
You likely signed NDAs with your clients. Installing this software likely breaks the NDA
How to (possibly) salvage this situation - Explain The above reason to them, and suggest other ways to build trust with them. Something like
I can't install software like that because you could inadvertently see what I'm working on for other clients. That's a violation of their trust (and possible NDA), so I can't really budge on that. I have several references XYZ if you're worried about work ethic.
answered 2 hours ago
sevensevenssevensevens
11k32640
add a comment |
DO NOT LET ANYBODY SPY ON YOUR PROPERTY AND WORK!!
If you work on the clients premises, using their property and licenses then they have every right to keylog and screencapture.
But that's not the case!
I'm afraid you gave them ideas with your too detailed, itemized timesheets.
Why would you even do that?
You give an estimate and once you draw up a contract you name a more accurate amount of time and price.
Once milestones are reached or the job is finished you invoice and bill your tasks / time.
If it's very different to your estimate you better talked about whatever caused the price hike when it occurred and they better agreed to it.
If they insist, thank them for considering to work with you but respectfully decline out of security concerns.
Let me reiterate:
DO NOT LET ANYBODY SPY ON YOUR PROPERTY AND WORK!!
answered 2 hours ago
DigitalBlade969DigitalBlade969
7,1951726
with your too detailed itemized timesheets. It would appear I still have a lot to learn.
– CL40
2 hours ago
Yeah, I would recommend categorizing your work only at a high level (i.e. research/planning, meetings, front-end, back-end, deployment, etc.) with a total per-category, and rounded to the hour. It's up to you how precisely you track your time internally, but sharing that detail treats your client like your manager and invites them to assume that authority.
– HonoredMule
5 mins ago
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Is this type of requirement common?
No it isn't. It's also a security issue and a sign of a problematic client. Unless you're desperate for the work I'd just refuse.
The major advantage of freelancing is that you pick your clients, your times and your conditions (these should always be clearly defined and agreed at the outset). If you allow a client to impinge on these you lose part of your advantage and your future negotiating status is lessened.
answered 2 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
119k67261457
Agreed. This is uncommon and unusual. I would not take on a client that had this as a requirement.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
1
I agree and would even go stronger. They are already signaling that they are going to dispute OP's labor charges. Even if OP is desperate, it is still better to be idle than work for nothing.
– emory
16 mins ago
add a comment |
Is this type of requirement common?
No it isn't. It's also a security issue and a sign of a problematic client. Unless you're desperate for the work I'd just refuse.
The major advantage of freelancing is that you pick your clients, your times and your conditions (these should always be clearly defined and agreed at the outset). If you allow a client to impinge on these you lose part of your advantage and your future negotiating status is lessened.
answered 2 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
119k67261457
Agreed. This is uncommon and unusual. I would not take on a client that had this as a requirement.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
1
I agree and would even go stronger. They are already signaling that they are going to dispute OP's labor charges. Even if OP is desperate, it is still better to be idle than work for nothing.
– emory
16 mins ago
add a comment |
Is this type of requirement common?
No it isn't. It's also a security issue and a sign of a problematic client. Unless you're desperate for the work I'd just refuse.
The major advantage of freelancing is that you pick your clients, your times and your conditions (these should always be clearly defined and agreed at the outset). If you allow a client to impinge on these you lose part of your advantage and your future negotiating status is lessened.
answered 2 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
119k67261457
Is this type of requirement common?
No it isn't. It's also a security issue and a sign of a problematic client. Unless you're desperate for the work I'd just refuse.
The major advantage of freelancing is that you pick your clients, your times and your conditions (these should always be clearly defined and agreed at the outset). If you allow a client to impinge on these you lose part of your advantage and your future negotiating status is lessened.
answered 2 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
119k67261457
edited 2 hours ago
answered 2 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
119k67261457
answered 2 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
119k67261457
answered 2 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
119k67261457
119k67261457
Agreed. This is uncommon and unusual. I would not take on a client that had this as a requirement.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
1
I agree and would even go stronger. They are already signaling that they are going to dispute OP's labor charges. Even if OP is desperate, it is still better to be idle than work for nothing.
– emory
16 mins ago
add a comment |
Agreed. This is uncommon and unusual. I would not take on a client that had this as a requirement.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
1
I agree and would even go stronger. They are already signaling that they are going to dispute OP's labor charges. Even if OP is desperate, it is still better to be idle than work for nothing.
– emory
16 mins ago
Agreed. This is uncommon and unusual. I would not take on a client that had this as a requirement.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
Agreed. This is uncommon and unusual. I would not take on a client that had this as a requirement.
– joeqwerty
2 hours ago
1
1
I agree and would even go stronger. They are already signaling that they are going to dispute OP's labor charges. Even if OP is desperate, it is still better to be idle than work for nothing.
– emory
16 mins ago
I agree and would even go stronger. They are already signaling that they are going to dispute OP's labor charges. Even if OP is desperate, it is still better to be idle than work for nothing.
– emory
16 mins ago
add a comment |
the risk of exposing another clients work via (2) - software becomes unpatched leaving a giant hole in my system or a screenshot of a chat with another client
This is why I will not use screen-logging software, and I do not know of a single free-lancer who will allow it on their computer.
You likely signed NDAs with your clients. Installing this software likely breaks the NDA
How to (possibly) salvage this situation - Explain The above reason to them, and suggest other ways to build trust with them. Something like
I can't install software like that because you could inadvertently see what I'm working on for other clients. That's a violation of their trust (and possible NDA), so I can't really budge on that. I have several references XYZ if you're worried about work ethic.
answered 2 hours ago
sevensevenssevensevens
11k32640
add a comment |
the risk of exposing another clients work via (2) - software becomes unpatched leaving a giant hole in my system or a screenshot of a chat with another client
This is why I will not use screen-logging software, and I do not know of a single free-lancer who will allow it on their computer.
You likely signed NDAs with your clients. Installing this software likely breaks the NDA
How to (possibly) salvage this situation - Explain The above reason to them, and suggest other ways to build trust with them. Something like
I can't install software like that because you could inadvertently see what I'm working on for other clients. That's a violation of their trust (and possible NDA), so I can't really budge on that. I have several references XYZ if you're worried about work ethic.
answered 2 hours ago
sevensevenssevensevens
11k32640
add a comment |
the risk of exposing another clients work via (2) - software becomes unpatched leaving a giant hole in my system or a screenshot of a chat with another client
This is why I will not use screen-logging software, and I do not know of a single free-lancer who will allow it on their computer.
You likely signed NDAs with your clients. Installing this software likely breaks the NDA
How to (possibly) salvage this situation - Explain The above reason to them, and suggest other ways to build trust with them. Something like
I can't install software like that because you could inadvertently see what I'm working on for other clients. That's a violation of their trust (and possible NDA), so I can't really budge on that. I have several references XYZ if you're worried about work ethic.
answered 2 hours ago
sevensevenssevensevens
11k32640
the risk of exposing another clients work via (2) - software becomes unpatched leaving a giant hole in my system or a screenshot of a chat with another client
This is why I will not use screen-logging software, and I do not know of a single free-lancer who will allow it on their computer.
You likely signed NDAs with your clients. Installing this software likely breaks the NDA
How to (possibly) salvage this situation - Explain The above reason to them, and suggest other ways to build trust with them. Something like
I can't install software like that because you could inadvertently see what I'm working on for other clients. That's a violation of their trust (and possible NDA), so I can't really budge on that. I have several references XYZ if you're worried about work ethic.
answered 2 hours ago
sevensevenssevensevens
11k32640
answered 2 hours ago
sevensevenssevensevens
11k32640
answered 2 hours ago
sevensevenssevensevens
11k32640
answered 2 hours ago
sevensevenssevensevens
11k32640
11k32640
add a comment |
add a comment |
DO NOT LET ANYBODY SPY ON YOUR PROPERTY AND WORK!!
If you work on the clients premises, using their property and licenses then they have every right to keylog and screencapture.
But that's not the case!
I'm afraid you gave them ideas with your too detailed, itemized timesheets.
Why would you even do that?
You give an estimate and once you draw up a contract you name a more accurate amount of time and price.
Once milestones are reached or the job is finished you invoice and bill your tasks / time.
If it's very different to your estimate you better talked about whatever caused the price hike when it occurred and they better agreed to it.
If they insist, thank them for considering to work with you but respectfully decline out of security concerns.
Let me reiterate:
DO NOT LET ANYBODY SPY ON YOUR PROPERTY AND WORK!!
answered 2 hours ago
DigitalBlade969DigitalBlade969
7,1951726
with your too detailed itemized timesheets. It would appear I still have a lot to learn.
– CL40
2 hours ago
Yeah, I would recommend categorizing your work only at a high level (i.e. research/planning, meetings, front-end, back-end, deployment, etc.) with a total per-category, and rounded to the hour. It's up to you how precisely you track your time internally, but sharing that detail treats your client like your manager and invites them to assume that authority.
– HonoredMule
5 mins ago
add a comment |
DO NOT LET ANYBODY SPY ON YOUR PROPERTY AND WORK!!
If you work on the clients premises, using their property and licenses then they have every right to keylog and screencapture.
But that's not the case!
I'm afraid you gave them ideas with your too detailed, itemized timesheets.
Why would you even do that?
You give an estimate and once you draw up a contract you name a more accurate amount of time and price.
Once milestones are reached or the job is finished you invoice and bill your tasks / time.
If it's very different to your estimate you better talked about whatever caused the price hike when it occurred and they better agreed to it.
If they insist, thank them for considering to work with you but respectfully decline out of security concerns.
Let me reiterate:
DO NOT LET ANYBODY SPY ON YOUR PROPERTY AND WORK!!
answered 2 hours ago
DigitalBlade969DigitalBlade969
7,1951726
with your too detailed itemized timesheets. It would appear I still have a lot to learn.
– CL40
2 hours ago
Yeah, I would recommend categorizing your work only at a high level (i.e. research/planning, meetings, front-end, back-end, deployment, etc.) with a total per-category, and rounded to the hour. It's up to you how precisely you track your time internally, but sharing that detail treats your client like your manager and invites them to assume that authority.
– HonoredMule
5 mins ago
add a comment |
DO NOT LET ANYBODY SPY ON YOUR PROPERTY AND WORK!!
If you work on the clients premises, using their property and licenses then they have every right to keylog and screencapture.
But that's not the case!
I'm afraid you gave them ideas with your too detailed, itemized timesheets.
Why would you even do that?
You give an estimate and once you draw up a contract you name a more accurate amount of time and price.
Once milestones are reached or the job is finished you invoice and bill your tasks / time.
If it's very different to your estimate you better talked about whatever caused the price hike when it occurred and they better agreed to it.
If they insist, thank them for considering to work with you but respectfully decline out of security concerns.
Let me reiterate:
DO NOT LET ANYBODY SPY ON YOUR PROPERTY AND WORK!!
answered 2 hours ago
DigitalBlade969DigitalBlade969
7,1951726
DO NOT LET ANYBODY SPY ON YOUR PROPERTY AND WORK!!
If you work on the clients premises, using their property and licenses then they have every right to keylog and screencapture.
But that's not the case!
I'm afraid you gave them ideas with your too detailed, itemized timesheets.
Why would you even do that?
You give an estimate and once you draw up a contract you name a more accurate amount of time and price.
Once milestones are reached or the job is finished you invoice and bill your tasks / time.
If it's very different to your estimate you better talked about whatever caused the price hike when it occurred and they better agreed to it.
If they insist, thank them for considering to work with you but respectfully decline out of security concerns.
Let me reiterate:
DO NOT LET ANYBODY SPY ON YOUR PROPERTY AND WORK!!
answered 2 hours ago
DigitalBlade969DigitalBlade969
7,1951726
answered 2 hours ago
DigitalBlade969DigitalBlade969
7,1951726
answered 2 hours ago
DigitalBlade969DigitalBlade969
7,1951726
answered 2 hours ago
DigitalBlade969DigitalBlade969
7,1951726
7,1951726
with your too detailed itemized timesheets. It would appear I still have a lot to learn.
– CL40
2 hours ago
Yeah, I would recommend categorizing your work only at a high level (i.e. research/planning, meetings, front-end, back-end, deployment, etc.) with a total per-category, and rounded to the hour. It's up to you how precisely you track your time internally, but sharing that detail treats your client like your manager and invites them to assume that authority.
– HonoredMule
5 mins ago
add a comment |
with your too detailed itemized timesheets. It would appear I still have a lot to learn.
– CL40
2 hours ago
Yeah, I would recommend categorizing your work only at a high level (i.e. research/planning, meetings, front-end, back-end, deployment, etc.) with a total per-category, and rounded to the hour. It's up to you how precisely you track your time internally, but sharing that detail treats your client like your manager and invites them to assume that authority.
– HonoredMule
5 mins ago
with your too detailed itemized timesheets. It would appear I still have a lot to learn.
– CL40
2 hours ago
with your too detailed itemized timesheets. It would appear I still have a lot to learn.
– CL40
2 hours ago
Yeah, I would recommend categorizing your work only at a high level (i.e. research/planning, meetings, front-end, back-end, deployment, etc.) with a total per-category, and rounded to the hour. It's up to you how precisely you track your time internally, but sharing that detail treats your client like your manager and invites them to assume that authority.
– HonoredMule
5 mins ago
Yeah, I would recommend categorizing your work only at a high level (i.e. research/planning, meetings, front-end, back-end, deployment, etc.) with a total per-category, and rounded to the hour. It's up to you how precisely you track your time internally, but sharing that detail treats your client like your manager and invites them to assume that authority.
– HonoredMule
5 mins ago
add a comment |
CL40 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
CL40 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
CL40 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
CL40 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
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Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
