Do you waste sorcery points if you try to apply metamagic to a spell from a scroll but fail to cast it?












21












$begingroup$


To cast a spell from a scroll that is on your list but of a higher level you can cast, you need to make a spellcasting ability check (wasting the spell scroll on a failure).



What happens if a low level sorcerer tries to apply metamagic to a high level spell he attempts to cast from a spell scroll, but fails the check ? Does he also waste the sorcery points, or no ?



Ex: Bob the 3rd level sorcerer with the Twinning Metamagic trying to cast a Twinned Haste from a spell scroll and failing the DC 13 check. Would he also waste 3 sorcery points ?






dnd-5e spells magic-items sorcerer metamagic







share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related on Can a sorcerer use metamagic when casting a spell via a spell scroll?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    yesterday
















21












$begingroup$


To cast a spell from a scroll that is on your list but of a higher level you can cast, you need to make a spellcasting ability check (wasting the spell scroll on a failure).



What happens if a low level sorcerer tries to apply metamagic to a high level spell he attempts to cast from a spell scroll, but fails the check ? Does he also waste the sorcery points, or no ?



Ex: Bob the 3rd level sorcerer with the Twinning Metamagic trying to cast a Twinned Haste from a spell scroll and failing the DC 13 check. Would he also waste 3 sorcery points ?






dnd-5e spells magic-items sorcerer metamagic







share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related on Can a sorcerer use metamagic when casting a spell via a spell scroll?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    yesterday














21












21








21


1



$begingroup$


To cast a spell from a scroll that is on your list but of a higher level you can cast, you need to make a spellcasting ability check (wasting the spell scroll on a failure).



What happens if a low level sorcerer tries to apply metamagic to a high level spell he attempts to cast from a spell scroll, but fails the check ? Does he also waste the sorcery points, or no ?



Ex: Bob the 3rd level sorcerer with the Twinning Metamagic trying to cast a Twinned Haste from a spell scroll and failing the DC 13 check. Would he also waste 3 sorcery points ?






dnd-5e spells magic-items sorcerer metamagic







share|improve this question











$endgroup$




To cast a spell from a scroll that is on your list but of a higher level you can cast, you need to make a spellcasting ability check (wasting the spell scroll on a failure).



What happens if a low level sorcerer tries to apply metamagic to a high level spell he attempts to cast from a spell scroll, but fails the check ? Does he also waste the sorcery points, or no ?



Ex: Bob the 3rd level sorcerer with the Twinning Metamagic trying to cast a Twinned Haste from a spell scroll and failing the DC 13 check. Would he also waste 3 sorcery points ?






dnd-5e spells magic-items sorcerer metamagic




dnd-5e spells magic-items sorcerer metamagic






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited yesterday









V2Blast

25.3k484156




25.3k484156










asked yesterday









Gael LGael L

9,172342172




9,172342172








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related on Can a sorcerer use metamagic when casting a spell via a spell scroll?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    yesterday














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related on Can a sorcerer use metamagic when casting a spell via a spell scroll?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    yesterday








1




1




$begingroup$
Related on Can a sorcerer use metamagic when casting a spell via a spell scroll?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday




$begingroup$
Related on Can a sorcerer use metamagic when casting a spell via a spell scroll?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















36












$begingroup$

No, metamagic only takes effect when you cast the spell



All the sorcerer's metamagic abilities have wording like:




When you cast a spell that...




If you failed to cast the spell, you don't get to invoke the metamagic ability in the first place, so spending sorcery points is contingent on successfully casting the spell in the first place.



Scrolls additionally say that:




If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




So that supports the idea that if you fail the check, no spellcasting has taken place.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
    $endgroup$
    – Mindwin
    yesterday






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
    $endgroup$
    – Carl Kevinson
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
    $endgroup$
    – Pureferret
    16 hours ago



















7












$begingroup$

No: if you fail with the scroll, you haven't cast the spell.



Every metamagic option but one begins with the phrase "when you cast a spell." That's what we'll be discussing. (Empowered Spell is "when you roll damage for a spell," which only happens after the spell successfully takes effect, so we'll ignore this irrelevant case.)



So, if you try but fail when using a spell scroll, do you count as casting the spell? Let's look at the rules for spell scrolls (emphasis mine):




If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




If the spell is too high level, you have to make an ability check to see if you can even cast it, and if you fail the check then there is no effect whatsoever. This means you haven't actually cast the spell (if you did, there would have been an effect), so you wouldn't have been able to apply a metamagic option to it yet. Or, phrased another way, the sorcery point would not have been wasted.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













    Your Answer





    StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
    return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
    StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
    StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
    });
    });
    }, "mathjax-editing");

    StackExchange.ready(function() {
    var channelOptions = {
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "122"
    };
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
    createEditor();
    });
    }
    else {
    createEditor();
    }
    });

    function createEditor() {
    StackExchange.prepareEditor({
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: false,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: null,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader: {
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    },
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    });


    }
    });














    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function () {
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f143557%2fdo-you-waste-sorcery-points-if-you-try-to-apply-metamagic-to-a-spell-from-a-scro%23new-answer', 'question_page');
    }
    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    36












    $begingroup$

    No, metamagic only takes effect when you cast the spell



    All the sorcerer's metamagic abilities have wording like:




    When you cast a spell that...




    If you failed to cast the spell, you don't get to invoke the metamagic ability in the first place, so spending sorcery points is contingent on successfully casting the spell in the first place.



    Scrolls additionally say that:




    If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




    So that supports the idea that if you fail the check, no spellcasting has taken place.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
      $endgroup$
      – Mindwin
      yesterday






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
      $endgroup$
      – Carl Kevinson
      yesterday










    • $begingroup$
      @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
      $endgroup$
      – Pureferret
      16 hours ago
















    36












    $begingroup$

    No, metamagic only takes effect when you cast the spell



    All the sorcerer's metamagic abilities have wording like:




    When you cast a spell that...




    If you failed to cast the spell, you don't get to invoke the metamagic ability in the first place, so spending sorcery points is contingent on successfully casting the spell in the first place.



    Scrolls additionally say that:




    If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




    So that supports the idea that if you fail the check, no spellcasting has taken place.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
      $endgroup$
      – Mindwin
      yesterday






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
      $endgroup$
      – Carl Kevinson
      yesterday










    • $begingroup$
      @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
      $endgroup$
      – Pureferret
      16 hours ago














    36












    36








    36





    $begingroup$

    No, metamagic only takes effect when you cast the spell



    All the sorcerer's metamagic abilities have wording like:




    When you cast a spell that...




    If you failed to cast the spell, you don't get to invoke the metamagic ability in the first place, so spending sorcery points is contingent on successfully casting the spell in the first place.



    Scrolls additionally say that:




    If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




    So that supports the idea that if you fail the check, no spellcasting has taken place.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    No, metamagic only takes effect when you cast the spell



    All the sorcerer's metamagic abilities have wording like:




    When you cast a spell that...




    If you failed to cast the spell, you don't get to invoke the metamagic ability in the first place, so spending sorcery points is contingent on successfully casting the spell in the first place.



    Scrolls additionally say that:




    If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




    So that supports the idea that if you fail the check, no spellcasting has taken place.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited yesterday

























    answered yesterday









    CarcerCarcer

    26.2k479139




    26.2k479139












    • $begingroup$
      Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
      $endgroup$
      – Mindwin
      yesterday






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
      $endgroup$
      – Carl Kevinson
      yesterday










    • $begingroup$
      @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
      $endgroup$
      – Pureferret
      16 hours ago


















    • $begingroup$
      Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
      $endgroup$
      – Mindwin
      yesterday






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
      $endgroup$
      – Carl Kevinson
      yesterday










    • $begingroup$
      @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
      $endgroup$
      – Pureferret
      16 hours ago
















    $begingroup$
    Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
    $endgroup$
    – Mindwin
    yesterday




    $begingroup$
    Once again, it helps to think like the designers. 5e is made by the creators of MtG and it shows. If the spell is not cast, it is never a valid target for metamagic.
    $endgroup$
    – Mindwin
    yesterday




    2




    2




    $begingroup$
    @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
    $endgroup$
    – Carl Kevinson
    yesterday




    $begingroup$
    @Mindwin WOTC are also the creators of DnD 3.5 where arcane spell failure does consume spell slots.
    $endgroup$
    – Carl Kevinson
    yesterday












    $begingroup$
    @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
    $endgroup$
    – Pureferret
    16 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @Mindwin I don't think there's any cross-polination of rules managers or designers between the two products.
    $endgroup$
    – Pureferret
    16 hours ago













    7












    $begingroup$

    No: if you fail with the scroll, you haven't cast the spell.



    Every metamagic option but one begins with the phrase "when you cast a spell." That's what we'll be discussing. (Empowered Spell is "when you roll damage for a spell," which only happens after the spell successfully takes effect, so we'll ignore this irrelevant case.)



    So, if you try but fail when using a spell scroll, do you count as casting the spell? Let's look at the rules for spell scrolls (emphasis mine):




    If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




    If the spell is too high level, you have to make an ability check to see if you can even cast it, and if you fail the check then there is no effect whatsoever. This means you haven't actually cast the spell (if you did, there would have been an effect), so you wouldn't have been able to apply a metamagic option to it yet. Or, phrased another way, the sorcery point would not have been wasted.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      7












      $begingroup$

      No: if you fail with the scroll, you haven't cast the spell.



      Every metamagic option but one begins with the phrase "when you cast a spell." That's what we'll be discussing. (Empowered Spell is "when you roll damage for a spell," which only happens after the spell successfully takes effect, so we'll ignore this irrelevant case.)



      So, if you try but fail when using a spell scroll, do you count as casting the spell? Let's look at the rules for spell scrolls (emphasis mine):




      If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




      If the spell is too high level, you have to make an ability check to see if you can even cast it, and if you fail the check then there is no effect whatsoever. This means you haven't actually cast the spell (if you did, there would have been an effect), so you wouldn't have been able to apply a metamagic option to it yet. Or, phrased another way, the sorcery point would not have been wasted.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        7












        7








        7





        $begingroup$

        No: if you fail with the scroll, you haven't cast the spell.



        Every metamagic option but one begins with the phrase "when you cast a spell." That's what we'll be discussing. (Empowered Spell is "when you roll damage for a spell," which only happens after the spell successfully takes effect, so we'll ignore this irrelevant case.)



        So, if you try but fail when using a spell scroll, do you count as casting the spell? Let's look at the rules for spell scrolls (emphasis mine):




        If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




        If the spell is too high level, you have to make an ability check to see if you can even cast it, and if you fail the check then there is no effect whatsoever. This means you haven't actually cast the spell (if you did, there would have been an effect), so you wouldn't have been able to apply a metamagic option to it yet. Or, phrased another way, the sorcery point would not have been wasted.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        No: if you fail with the scroll, you haven't cast the spell.



        Every metamagic option but one begins with the phrase "when you cast a spell." That's what we'll be discussing. (Empowered Spell is "when you roll damage for a spell," which only happens after the spell successfully takes effect, so we'll ignore this irrelevant case.)



        So, if you try but fail when using a spell scroll, do you count as casting the spell? Let's look at the rules for spell scrolls (emphasis mine):




        If the spell is on your class’s spell list but of a higher level than you can normally cast, you must make an ability check using your spellcasting ability to determine whether you cast it successfully. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a failed check, the spell disappears from the scroll with no other effect.




        If the spell is too high level, you have to make an ability check to see if you can even cast it, and if you fail the check then there is no effect whatsoever. This means you haven't actually cast the spell (if you did, there would have been an effect), so you wouldn't have been able to apply a metamagic option to it yet. Or, phrased another way, the sorcery point would not have been wasted.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered yesterday









        BloodcinderBloodcinder

        22.9k380139




        22.9k380139






























            draft saved

            draft discarded




















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid …



            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


            Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f143557%2fdo-you-waste-sorcery-points-if-you-try-to-apply-metamagic-to-a-spell-from-a-scro%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown







            -

            Popular posts from this blog

            數位音樂下載

            Image
            數位音樂下載 為非以「實體」方式來販賣音樂的相關產品，而使用數位格式如mp3、AAC等文件格式來進行銷售販賣的一种音乐产业形式。著名的數位音樂下載服務商有iTunes Store、RecoChoku、Google Play音乐和微软Zune等。数字音乐下载在二十一世纪初一度风靡全球， [1] [2] 使得传统唱片产业走向衰落，但其自身也在2010年代流媒体音乐服务如Apple Music、Spotify等的挤压下迅速失去市场份额。 [3] [4] 数字音乐下载有便于携带、传播迅速、制作简单成本低等优点，与流媒体音乐相比也能更好保障音乐人权益； [5] 但它同时很可能带来侵犯版权和滥用的情形， [6] 也给音乐产业带来了诸多不利影响。数字音乐下载为音乐人和乐迷提供了更加便捷直接的交流渠道，也一定程度上推动了网络音乐人的出现和独立音乐的迅速发展。 [7] 目录 1 历史 1.1 技术积淀（1987-2000） 1.2 出现与兴起（2000-2004） 1.3 唱片市场的颠覆者（2004-2007） 1.4 巅峰和衰落（2005-2013） 1.5 摇摇欲坠的现状与不可预知的明天（2014至今） 2 主要文件格式 2.1 PCM编码格式 2.1.1 WAV 2.1.2 APE 2.1.3 FLAC 2.2 苹果推出的无损文件格式 2.2.1 AIFF 2.2.2 ALAC 2.3 有损压缩格式 2.3.1 MP3 2.3.2 AAC 3 主要市场 3.1 iTunes Store 3.2 Google Play音乐商店 3.3 亚马逊音乐商店 3.4 部分其他音乐商店 4 影响与评价 4.1 对音乐产业的影响 4.2 对科技行业的影响 4.3 正面评价 4.4 负面评价 4.4.1 侵权问题 4.4.2 经营模式不明晰 4.4.3 不适应移动时代 4.5 文化现象 5 延伸阅读 6 参考资料 历史 苹果iTunes+iPod的软硬件搭配让数字音...
            Read more

            When can things happen in Etherscan, such as the picture below?

            Image
            2 I don't know why balance of the address is 0. when can this situation? etherscan balances share | improve this question asked yesterday Ru Hi Ru Hi 11 1 New contributor Ru Hi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering. Check out our Code of Conduct. add a comment  |  ...
            Read more

            格利澤436b

            Image
            格利泽436b 太陽系外行星 太陽系外行星列表 艺术家笔下的格利泽436b 母恆星 母恆星 Gliese 436 星座 獅子座 赤經 ( α ) 11 h  42 m  11.0941 s [1] 赤緯 ( δ ) +26° 42′ 23.652″ [1] 距離 33.4 ly (10.2 pc) 光譜類型 M2.5 V [1] 軌道參數 半长轴 ( a ) 0.0291±0.0004 [2] AU 軌道離心率 ( e ) 0.150±0.012 [2] 公轉週期 ( P ) 2.643904±0.000005 [3] d (0.00723849 y) 軌道傾角 ( i ) 85.8 +0.21 −0.25 [3] ° 角距 ( θ ) 2.794 mas 近星點時間 ( T 0 ) 2,451,551.716 ±0.01 JD 半振幅 ( K ) 18.68±0.8 m/s 物理性质 质量 ( m ) 22.2±1.0 [2] M ⊕ 半徑 ( r ) 4.327±0.183 [2] [4] R ⊕ 密度 ( ρ ) 1.51 g cm -3 表面重力 ( g ) 1.18 g 溫度 ( T ) 712±36 [2] K 發現 發現時間 2004 發現者 巴特勒、沃格特、 馬西 et al. 發現方法 徑向速度、凌日法 發現地點 美國加利福尼亞州 發表論文 出版 其他名稱 Ross 905 b, GJ 436 b, [5] LTT 13213 b, GCTP 2704.10 b, LHS 310, AC+27:28217 b, Vyssotsky 616 b, HIP 57087 b, GEN# +9.80120068 b, LP 319-75 b, G 121-7 b, LSPM J1142+2642 b, 1RXS J114211.9+264328 b, ASCC 683818 b, G 147-68 b, UCAC2 41198281 b, BP...
            Read more