How to convince somebody that he is fit for something else, but not this job?












15















I interviewed one candidate. He was a petroleum engineer in the desert site. After 3 minutes of interviewing and checking his code quality, without concern of his background at all, he failed.



One month later he comes back again and joins my team under my frontend buddy, not directly under me. He is hiding behind my colleague and using CEO connection.



I used to ask him his motivation to become a software developer. Surprisingly, his answer was "I would like to stay with my girlfriend".



Problems:




  1. Unable to perform even basic tasks without high levels of assistance

  2. Poor English

  3. Lack of focus

  4. Always has a phone call in the office. Everyday!

  5. Always arrives late to work


... etc.



Question:



Working with him is not only spoon feeding, but also chewing.



How can I convince him to find another career that is the best fit for him?



Staying in here just sit in and let the sunrise and sunset is damaging my colleagues morale too.










share|improve this question




















  • 3





    Next month I am forming in a new team with new company.

    – Sarit
    yesterday











  • This is my 3rd situations in my life. Thank you for your response.

    – Sarit
    yesterday






  • 16





    Can you just sideline him and ignore him. Stop wasting time teaching him if he wont learn. Assign him a task to "learn technology xyz" and he can sit and surf internet all day without bothering you.

    – vikingsteve
    yesterday






  • 1





    Please add the country involved, your nationality, and the employee's nationality. Middle-east work culture is quite different than mine!

    – axus
    yesterday






  • 1





    @axus I would add details here. Because I don't think it is a major concern. I am Thai living and grown up in Thailand with almost western culture. But genetically pure Chinese. This is Thai startup. He also has Chinese ancestor and Thai nationality.

    – Sarit
    yesterday
















15















I interviewed one candidate. He was a petroleum engineer in the desert site. After 3 minutes of interviewing and checking his code quality, without concern of his background at all, he failed.



One month later he comes back again and joins my team under my frontend buddy, not directly under me. He is hiding behind my colleague and using CEO connection.



I used to ask him his motivation to become a software developer. Surprisingly, his answer was "I would like to stay with my girlfriend".



Problems:




  1. Unable to perform even basic tasks without high levels of assistance

  2. Poor English

  3. Lack of focus

  4. Always has a phone call in the office. Everyday!

  5. Always arrives late to work


... etc.



Question:



Working with him is not only spoon feeding, but also chewing.



How can I convince him to find another career that is the best fit for him?



Staying in here just sit in and let the sunrise and sunset is damaging my colleagues morale too.










share|improve this question




















  • 3





    Next month I am forming in a new team with new company.

    – Sarit
    yesterday











  • This is my 3rd situations in my life. Thank you for your response.

    – Sarit
    yesterday






  • 16





    Can you just sideline him and ignore him. Stop wasting time teaching him if he wont learn. Assign him a task to "learn technology xyz" and he can sit and surf internet all day without bothering you.

    – vikingsteve
    yesterday






  • 1





    Please add the country involved, your nationality, and the employee's nationality. Middle-east work culture is quite different than mine!

    – axus
    yesterday






  • 1





    @axus I would add details here. Because I don't think it is a major concern. I am Thai living and grown up in Thailand with almost western culture. But genetically pure Chinese. This is Thai startup. He also has Chinese ancestor and Thai nationality.

    – Sarit
    yesterday














15












15








15


1






I interviewed one candidate. He was a petroleum engineer in the desert site. After 3 minutes of interviewing and checking his code quality, without concern of his background at all, he failed.



One month later he comes back again and joins my team under my frontend buddy, not directly under me. He is hiding behind my colleague and using CEO connection.



I used to ask him his motivation to become a software developer. Surprisingly, his answer was "I would like to stay with my girlfriend".



Problems:




  1. Unable to perform even basic tasks without high levels of assistance

  2. Poor English

  3. Lack of focus

  4. Always has a phone call in the office. Everyday!

  5. Always arrives late to work


... etc.



Question:



Working with him is not only spoon feeding, but also chewing.



How can I convince him to find another career that is the best fit for him?



Staying in here just sit in and let the sunrise and sunset is damaging my colleagues morale too.










share|improve this question
















I interviewed one candidate. He was a petroleum engineer in the desert site. After 3 minutes of interviewing and checking his code quality, without concern of his background at all, he failed.



One month later he comes back again and joins my team under my frontend buddy, not directly under me. He is hiding behind my colleague and using CEO connection.



I used to ask him his motivation to become a software developer. Surprisingly, his answer was "I would like to stay with my girlfriend".



Problems:




  1. Unable to perform even basic tasks without high levels of assistance

  2. Poor English

  3. Lack of focus

  4. Always has a phone call in the office. Everyday!

  5. Always arrives late to work


... etc.



Question:



Working with him is not only spoon feeding, but also chewing.



How can I convince him to find another career that is the best fit for him?



Staying in here just sit in and let the sunrise and sunset is damaging my colleagues morale too.







colleagues conflict performance nepotism






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited yesterday









Uciebila

542215




542215










asked yesterday









SaritSarit

243311




243311








  • 3





    Next month I am forming in a new team with new company.

    – Sarit
    yesterday











  • This is my 3rd situations in my life. Thank you for your response.

    – Sarit
    yesterday






  • 16





    Can you just sideline him and ignore him. Stop wasting time teaching him if he wont learn. Assign him a task to "learn technology xyz" and he can sit and surf internet all day without bothering you.

    – vikingsteve
    yesterday






  • 1





    Please add the country involved, your nationality, and the employee's nationality. Middle-east work culture is quite different than mine!

    – axus
    yesterday






  • 1





    @axus I would add details here. Because I don't think it is a major concern. I am Thai living and grown up in Thailand with almost western culture. But genetically pure Chinese. This is Thai startup. He also has Chinese ancestor and Thai nationality.

    – Sarit
    yesterday














  • 3





    Next month I am forming in a new team with new company.

    – Sarit
    yesterday











  • This is my 3rd situations in my life. Thank you for your response.

    – Sarit
    yesterday






  • 16





    Can you just sideline him and ignore him. Stop wasting time teaching him if he wont learn. Assign him a task to "learn technology xyz" and he can sit and surf internet all day without bothering you.

    – vikingsteve
    yesterday






  • 1





    Please add the country involved, your nationality, and the employee's nationality. Middle-east work culture is quite different than mine!

    – axus
    yesterday






  • 1





    @axus I would add details here. Because I don't think it is a major concern. I am Thai living and grown up in Thailand with almost western culture. But genetically pure Chinese. This is Thai startup. He also has Chinese ancestor and Thai nationality.

    – Sarit
    yesterday








3




3





Next month I am forming in a new team with new company.

– Sarit
yesterday





Next month I am forming in a new team with new company.

– Sarit
yesterday













This is my 3rd situations in my life. Thank you for your response.

– Sarit
yesterday





This is my 3rd situations in my life. Thank you for your response.

– Sarit
yesterday




16




16





Can you just sideline him and ignore him. Stop wasting time teaching him if he wont learn. Assign him a task to "learn technology xyz" and he can sit and surf internet all day without bothering you.

– vikingsteve
yesterday





Can you just sideline him and ignore him. Stop wasting time teaching him if he wont learn. Assign him a task to "learn technology xyz" and he can sit and surf internet all day without bothering you.

– vikingsteve
yesterday




1




1





Please add the country involved, your nationality, and the employee's nationality. Middle-east work culture is quite different than mine!

– axus
yesterday





Please add the country involved, your nationality, and the employee's nationality. Middle-east work culture is quite different than mine!

– axus
yesterday




1




1





@axus I would add details here. Because I don't think it is a major concern. I am Thai living and grown up in Thailand with almost western culture. But genetically pure Chinese. This is Thai startup. He also has Chinese ancestor and Thai nationality.

– Sarit
yesterday





@axus I would add details here. Because I don't think it is a major concern. I am Thai living and grown up in Thailand with almost western culture. But genetically pure Chinese. This is Thai startup. He also has Chinese ancestor and Thai nationality.

– Sarit
yesterday










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















63















How can I convince him to find another career that is best fit for him?




You can't. Given the description:




[..]using CEO connection.




there's nothing much you can do. Despite being rejected by you in the interview, he managed to find a way into your team - that's indication (not a good one though) enough. Time for you to either




  • Find yourself a better workplace. (The option I'd go with)

  • Suck it up (sorry, it sounds harsh, but one of the options) and let them continue, have periodic performance monitoring and document it, wait for them to fail, and then let management take care of it.






share|improve this answer





















  • 16





    When they fail, they will "engineer" it so the OP gets the blame... via CEO connection...

    – Solar Mike
    yesterday






  • 8





    @SolarMike or, maybe the management will not care about the failure..at all.

    – Sourav Ghosh
    yesterday











  • Yeah I'd worry about the possibility of taking the fall for them--moving somewhere else does sound like the better option if it's a reasonable possibility.

    – bob
    yesterday






  • 4





    @SolarMike: Not if OP documents things properly. As in, raised X on [date], upon which we agreed with step by step improvement plan with milestones to be reviewed at [date], [date], etc. Milestones not met by [date], [date], etc. Rinse and repeat for issues Y, Z, etc. Redo an improvement plan or two. At some point the documentation is overwhelming enough that even being the CEO's buddy won't help -- or at the very least the CEO will go OK I'll put him on another team and/or not blame OP for failing.

    – Denis de Bernardy
    yesterday













  • @DenisdeBernardy "selective evidence" is also an issue - they will produce the bits they want... Saw one victim being blamed and forced to take a psych test... Just to keep someone on...

    – Solar Mike
    yesterday





















16














I am going to assume that you can't reason with him, and you are using "convince" as a euphemism. As a leader, you can't "convince" people to leave.



Doing so is called constructive dismissal and is illegal in a lot of places.



You need to treat them like you would any other employee. Sometimes managers get handed people they don't want to deal with. That's life.



You need to separate out the misconduct from work-quality issues. Refusing to work, lateness, are related to misconduct, and need to be handled differently. When it comes to work-quality, you need to develop a plan for them to get the skills required to complete their job.



When/if the CEO steps to tell you to relax your standards on them, that's when you do so. You also make it clear that he is a burden on the team. If the CEO is happy with that, that's just something you'll have to accept, or look to get a job elsewhere.






share|improve this answer





















  • 12





    That is absolutely not what constructive dismissal is, that is crazy.

    – Davor
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Davor I took a bit of an interpretation around "convince"

    – Gregory Currie
    yesterday






  • 2





    Refusing to work and lateness sound like performance issues to me. I don't know why you think they wouldn't be relevant.

    – Yay295
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Yay295 Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean separate out to discard. I should have said categories.

    – Gregory Currie
    yesterday











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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









63















How can I convince him to find another career that is best fit for him?




You can't. Given the description:




[..]using CEO connection.




there's nothing much you can do. Despite being rejected by you in the interview, he managed to find a way into your team - that's indication (not a good one though) enough. Time for you to either




  • Find yourself a better workplace. (The option I'd go with)

  • Suck it up (sorry, it sounds harsh, but one of the options) and let them continue, have periodic performance monitoring and document it, wait for them to fail, and then let management take care of it.






share|improve this answer





















  • 16





    When they fail, they will "engineer" it so the OP gets the blame... via CEO connection...

    – Solar Mike
    yesterday






  • 8





    @SolarMike or, maybe the management will not care about the failure..at all.

    – Sourav Ghosh
    yesterday











  • Yeah I'd worry about the possibility of taking the fall for them--moving somewhere else does sound like the better option if it's a reasonable possibility.

    – bob
    yesterday






  • 4





    @SolarMike: Not if OP documents things properly. As in, raised X on [date], upon which we agreed with step by step improvement plan with milestones to be reviewed at [date], [date], etc. Milestones not met by [date], [date], etc. Rinse and repeat for issues Y, Z, etc. Redo an improvement plan or two. At some point the documentation is overwhelming enough that even being the CEO's buddy won't help -- or at the very least the CEO will go OK I'll put him on another team and/or not blame OP for failing.

    – Denis de Bernardy
    yesterday













  • @DenisdeBernardy "selective evidence" is also an issue - they will produce the bits they want... Saw one victim being blamed and forced to take a psych test... Just to keep someone on...

    – Solar Mike
    yesterday


















63















How can I convince him to find another career that is best fit for him?




You can't. Given the description:




[..]using CEO connection.




there's nothing much you can do. Despite being rejected by you in the interview, he managed to find a way into your team - that's indication (not a good one though) enough. Time for you to either




  • Find yourself a better workplace. (The option I'd go with)

  • Suck it up (sorry, it sounds harsh, but one of the options) and let them continue, have periodic performance monitoring and document it, wait for them to fail, and then let management take care of it.






share|improve this answer





















  • 16





    When they fail, they will "engineer" it so the OP gets the blame... via CEO connection...

    – Solar Mike
    yesterday






  • 8





    @SolarMike or, maybe the management will not care about the failure..at all.

    – Sourav Ghosh
    yesterday











  • Yeah I'd worry about the possibility of taking the fall for them--moving somewhere else does sound like the better option if it's a reasonable possibility.

    – bob
    yesterday






  • 4





    @SolarMike: Not if OP documents things properly. As in, raised X on [date], upon which we agreed with step by step improvement plan with milestones to be reviewed at [date], [date], etc. Milestones not met by [date], [date], etc. Rinse and repeat for issues Y, Z, etc. Redo an improvement plan or two. At some point the documentation is overwhelming enough that even being the CEO's buddy won't help -- or at the very least the CEO will go OK I'll put him on another team and/or not blame OP for failing.

    – Denis de Bernardy
    yesterday













  • @DenisdeBernardy "selective evidence" is also an issue - they will produce the bits they want... Saw one victim being blamed and forced to take a psych test... Just to keep someone on...

    – Solar Mike
    yesterday
















63












63








63








How can I convince him to find another career that is best fit for him?




You can't. Given the description:




[..]using CEO connection.




there's nothing much you can do. Despite being rejected by you in the interview, he managed to find a way into your team - that's indication (not a good one though) enough. Time for you to either




  • Find yourself a better workplace. (The option I'd go with)

  • Suck it up (sorry, it sounds harsh, but one of the options) and let them continue, have periodic performance monitoring and document it, wait for them to fail, and then let management take care of it.






share|improve this answer
















How can I convince him to find another career that is best fit for him?




You can't. Given the description:




[..]using CEO connection.




there's nothing much you can do. Despite being rejected by you in the interview, he managed to find a way into your team - that's indication (not a good one though) enough. Time for you to either




  • Find yourself a better workplace. (The option I'd go with)

  • Suck it up (sorry, it sounds harsh, but one of the options) and let them continue, have periodic performance monitoring and document it, wait for them to fail, and then let management take care of it.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited yesterday

























answered yesterday









Sourav GhoshSourav Ghosh

6,82143054




6,82143054








  • 16





    When they fail, they will "engineer" it so the OP gets the blame... via CEO connection...

    – Solar Mike
    yesterday






  • 8





    @SolarMike or, maybe the management will not care about the failure..at all.

    – Sourav Ghosh
    yesterday











  • Yeah I'd worry about the possibility of taking the fall for them--moving somewhere else does sound like the better option if it's a reasonable possibility.

    – bob
    yesterday






  • 4





    @SolarMike: Not if OP documents things properly. As in, raised X on [date], upon which we agreed with step by step improvement plan with milestones to be reviewed at [date], [date], etc. Milestones not met by [date], [date], etc. Rinse and repeat for issues Y, Z, etc. Redo an improvement plan or two. At some point the documentation is overwhelming enough that even being the CEO's buddy won't help -- or at the very least the CEO will go OK I'll put him on another team and/or not blame OP for failing.

    – Denis de Bernardy
    yesterday













  • @DenisdeBernardy "selective evidence" is also an issue - they will produce the bits they want... Saw one victim being blamed and forced to take a psych test... Just to keep someone on...

    – Solar Mike
    yesterday
















  • 16





    When they fail, they will "engineer" it so the OP gets the blame... via CEO connection...

    – Solar Mike
    yesterday






  • 8





    @SolarMike or, maybe the management will not care about the failure..at all.

    – Sourav Ghosh
    yesterday











  • Yeah I'd worry about the possibility of taking the fall for them--moving somewhere else does sound like the better option if it's a reasonable possibility.

    – bob
    yesterday






  • 4





    @SolarMike: Not if OP documents things properly. As in, raised X on [date], upon which we agreed with step by step improvement plan with milestones to be reviewed at [date], [date], etc. Milestones not met by [date], [date], etc. Rinse and repeat for issues Y, Z, etc. Redo an improvement plan or two. At some point the documentation is overwhelming enough that even being the CEO's buddy won't help -- or at the very least the CEO will go OK I'll put him on another team and/or not blame OP for failing.

    – Denis de Bernardy
    yesterday













  • @DenisdeBernardy "selective evidence" is also an issue - they will produce the bits they want... Saw one victim being blamed and forced to take a psych test... Just to keep someone on...

    – Solar Mike
    yesterday










16




16





When they fail, they will "engineer" it so the OP gets the blame... via CEO connection...

– Solar Mike
yesterday





When they fail, they will "engineer" it so the OP gets the blame... via CEO connection...

– Solar Mike
yesterday




8




8





@SolarMike or, maybe the management will not care about the failure..at all.

– Sourav Ghosh
yesterday





@SolarMike or, maybe the management will not care about the failure..at all.

– Sourav Ghosh
yesterday













Yeah I'd worry about the possibility of taking the fall for them--moving somewhere else does sound like the better option if it's a reasonable possibility.

– bob
yesterday





Yeah I'd worry about the possibility of taking the fall for them--moving somewhere else does sound like the better option if it's a reasonable possibility.

– bob
yesterday




4




4





@SolarMike: Not if OP documents things properly. As in, raised X on [date], upon which we agreed with step by step improvement plan with milestones to be reviewed at [date], [date], etc. Milestones not met by [date], [date], etc. Rinse and repeat for issues Y, Z, etc. Redo an improvement plan or two. At some point the documentation is overwhelming enough that even being the CEO's buddy won't help -- or at the very least the CEO will go OK I'll put him on another team and/or not blame OP for failing.

– Denis de Bernardy
yesterday







@SolarMike: Not if OP documents things properly. As in, raised X on [date], upon which we agreed with step by step improvement plan with milestones to be reviewed at [date], [date], etc. Milestones not met by [date], [date], etc. Rinse and repeat for issues Y, Z, etc. Redo an improvement plan or two. At some point the documentation is overwhelming enough that even being the CEO's buddy won't help -- or at the very least the CEO will go OK I'll put him on another team and/or not blame OP for failing.

– Denis de Bernardy
yesterday















@DenisdeBernardy "selective evidence" is also an issue - they will produce the bits they want... Saw one victim being blamed and forced to take a psych test... Just to keep someone on...

– Solar Mike
yesterday







@DenisdeBernardy "selective evidence" is also an issue - they will produce the bits they want... Saw one victim being blamed and forced to take a psych test... Just to keep someone on...

– Solar Mike
yesterday















16














I am going to assume that you can't reason with him, and you are using "convince" as a euphemism. As a leader, you can't "convince" people to leave.



Doing so is called constructive dismissal and is illegal in a lot of places.



You need to treat them like you would any other employee. Sometimes managers get handed people they don't want to deal with. That's life.



You need to separate out the misconduct from work-quality issues. Refusing to work, lateness, are related to misconduct, and need to be handled differently. When it comes to work-quality, you need to develop a plan for them to get the skills required to complete their job.



When/if the CEO steps to tell you to relax your standards on them, that's when you do so. You also make it clear that he is a burden on the team. If the CEO is happy with that, that's just something you'll have to accept, or look to get a job elsewhere.






share|improve this answer





















  • 12





    That is absolutely not what constructive dismissal is, that is crazy.

    – Davor
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Davor I took a bit of an interpretation around "convince"

    – Gregory Currie
    yesterday






  • 2





    Refusing to work and lateness sound like performance issues to me. I don't know why you think they wouldn't be relevant.

    – Yay295
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Yay295 Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean separate out to discard. I should have said categories.

    – Gregory Currie
    yesterday
















16














I am going to assume that you can't reason with him, and you are using "convince" as a euphemism. As a leader, you can't "convince" people to leave.



Doing so is called constructive dismissal and is illegal in a lot of places.



You need to treat them like you would any other employee. Sometimes managers get handed people they don't want to deal with. That's life.



You need to separate out the misconduct from work-quality issues. Refusing to work, lateness, are related to misconduct, and need to be handled differently. When it comes to work-quality, you need to develop a plan for them to get the skills required to complete their job.



When/if the CEO steps to tell you to relax your standards on them, that's when you do so. You also make it clear that he is a burden on the team. If the CEO is happy with that, that's just something you'll have to accept, or look to get a job elsewhere.






share|improve this answer





















  • 12





    That is absolutely not what constructive dismissal is, that is crazy.

    – Davor
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Davor I took a bit of an interpretation around "convince"

    – Gregory Currie
    yesterday






  • 2





    Refusing to work and lateness sound like performance issues to me. I don't know why you think they wouldn't be relevant.

    – Yay295
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Yay295 Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean separate out to discard. I should have said categories.

    – Gregory Currie
    yesterday














16












16








16







I am going to assume that you can't reason with him, and you are using "convince" as a euphemism. As a leader, you can't "convince" people to leave.



Doing so is called constructive dismissal and is illegal in a lot of places.



You need to treat them like you would any other employee. Sometimes managers get handed people they don't want to deal with. That's life.



You need to separate out the misconduct from work-quality issues. Refusing to work, lateness, are related to misconduct, and need to be handled differently. When it comes to work-quality, you need to develop a plan for them to get the skills required to complete their job.



When/if the CEO steps to tell you to relax your standards on them, that's when you do so. You also make it clear that he is a burden on the team. If the CEO is happy with that, that's just something you'll have to accept, or look to get a job elsewhere.






share|improve this answer















I am going to assume that you can't reason with him, and you are using "convince" as a euphemism. As a leader, you can't "convince" people to leave.



Doing so is called constructive dismissal and is illegal in a lot of places.



You need to treat them like you would any other employee. Sometimes managers get handed people they don't want to deal with. That's life.



You need to separate out the misconduct from work-quality issues. Refusing to work, lateness, are related to misconduct, and need to be handled differently. When it comes to work-quality, you need to develop a plan for them to get the skills required to complete their job.



When/if the CEO steps to tell you to relax your standards on them, that's when you do so. You also make it clear that he is a burden on the team. If the CEO is happy with that, that's just something you'll have to accept, or look to get a job elsewhere.







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edited yesterday

























answered yesterday









Gregory CurrieGregory Currie

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  • 12





    That is absolutely not what constructive dismissal is, that is crazy.

    – Davor
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Davor I took a bit of an interpretation around "convince"

    – Gregory Currie
    yesterday






  • 2





    Refusing to work and lateness sound like performance issues to me. I don't know why you think they wouldn't be relevant.

    – Yay295
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Yay295 Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean separate out to discard. I should have said categories.

    – Gregory Currie
    yesterday














  • 12





    That is absolutely not what constructive dismissal is, that is crazy.

    – Davor
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Davor I took a bit of an interpretation around "convince"

    – Gregory Currie
    yesterday






  • 2





    Refusing to work and lateness sound like performance issues to me. I don't know why you think they wouldn't be relevant.

    – Yay295
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Yay295 Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean separate out to discard. I should have said categories.

    – Gregory Currie
    yesterday








12




12





That is absolutely not what constructive dismissal is, that is crazy.

– Davor
yesterday





That is absolutely not what constructive dismissal is, that is crazy.

– Davor
yesterday




1




1





@Davor I took a bit of an interpretation around "convince"

– Gregory Currie
yesterday





@Davor I took a bit of an interpretation around "convince"

– Gregory Currie
yesterday




2




2





Refusing to work and lateness sound like performance issues to me. I don't know why you think they wouldn't be relevant.

– Yay295
yesterday





Refusing to work and lateness sound like performance issues to me. I don't know why you think they wouldn't be relevant.

– Yay295
yesterday




1




1





@Yay295 Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean separate out to discard. I should have said categories.

– Gregory Currie
yesterday





@Yay295 Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean separate out to discard. I should have said categories.

– Gregory Currie
yesterday


















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