“He must have overslept, mustn't he?” versus “… , hasn't he?” or “… , didn't he?” Which is...
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Which question tag should follow He must have overslept ?
He must have overslept, mustn't he ?
or
He must have overslept, hasn't he ?
or even
He must have overslept, didn't he ?
What motivates my question is that adding not to modal must usually changes its meaning from the logical deduction that something is/was the case to prohibition, doesn't it?
grammar question-tags modal-verbs
edited Nov 14 '15 at 6:25
Sven Yargs
115k20254508
asked Nov 13 '15 at 12:23
user58319user58319
2,11773268
add a comment |
Which question tag should follow He must have overslept ?
He must have overslept, mustn't he ?
or
He must have overslept, hasn't he ?
or even
He must have overslept, didn't he ?
What motivates my question is that adding not to modal must usually changes its meaning from the logical deduction that something is/was the case to prohibition, doesn't it?
grammar question-tags modal-verbs
edited Nov 14 '15 at 6:25
Sven Yargs
115k20254508
asked Nov 13 '15 at 12:23
user58319user58319
2,11773268
1
I'd not consider the first tag question jarring; the context dictates the sense of the tag. The other two tags would be appropriate with 'he's overslept, ... Notice that this essentially makes 'He's overslept' into something modally somewhere along the continuum towards a declarative question rather than a pure assertion.
– Edwin Ashworth
Nov 13 '15 at 13:10
Yeah, frankly they all sound terrible. Using "must have" with a clause that reiterates as a question like that (except perhaps with "dontcha think") is basically not workable. Rephrase.
– Hot Licks
Nov 13 '15 at 13:11
add a comment |
Which question tag should follow He must have overslept ?
He must have overslept, mustn't he ?
or
He must have overslept, hasn't he ?
or even
He must have overslept, didn't he ?
What motivates my question is that adding not to modal must usually changes its meaning from the logical deduction that something is/was the case to prohibition, doesn't it?
grammar question-tags modal-verbs
edited Nov 14 '15 at 6:25
Sven Yargs
115k20254508
asked Nov 13 '15 at 12:23
user58319user58319
2,11773268
Which question tag should follow He must have overslept ?
He must have overslept, mustn't he ?
or
He must have overslept, hasn't he ?
or even
He must have overslept, didn't he ?
What motivates my question is that adding not to modal must usually changes its meaning from the logical deduction that something is/was the case to prohibition, doesn't it?
grammar question-tags modal-verbs
grammar question-tags modal-verbs
edited Nov 14 '15 at 6:25
Sven Yargs
115k20254508
asked Nov 13 '15 at 12:23
user58319user58319
2,11773268
edited Nov 14 '15 at 6:25
Sven Yargs
115k20254508
asked Nov 13 '15 at 12:23
user58319user58319
2,11773268
edited Nov 14 '15 at 6:25
Sven Yargs
115k20254508
edited Nov 14 '15 at 6:25
Sven Yargs
115k20254508
edited Nov 14 '15 at 6:25
Sven Yargs
115k20254508
115k20254508
asked Nov 13 '15 at 12:23
user58319user58319
2,11773268
asked Nov 13 '15 at 12:23
user58319user58319
2,11773268
asked Nov 13 '15 at 12:23
user58319user58319
2,11773268
2,11773268
1
I'd not consider the first tag question jarring; the context dictates the sense of the tag. The other two tags would be appropriate with 'he's overslept, ... Notice that this essentially makes 'He's overslept' into something modally somewhere along the continuum towards a declarative question rather than a pure assertion.
– Edwin Ashworth
Nov 13 '15 at 13:10
Yeah, frankly they all sound terrible. Using "must have" with a clause that reiterates as a question like that (except perhaps with "dontcha think") is basically not workable. Rephrase.
– Hot Licks
Nov 13 '15 at 13:11
add a comment |
1
I'd not consider the first tag question jarring; the context dictates the sense of the tag. The other two tags would be appropriate with 'he's overslept, ... Notice that this essentially makes 'He's overslept' into something modally somewhere along the continuum towards a declarative question rather than a pure assertion.
– Edwin Ashworth
Nov 13 '15 at 13:10
Yeah, frankly they all sound terrible. Using "must have" with a clause that reiterates as a question like that (except perhaps with "dontcha think") is basically not workable. Rephrase.
– Hot Licks
Nov 13 '15 at 13:11
1
1
I'd not consider the first tag question jarring; the context dictates the sense of the tag. The other two tags would be appropriate with 'he's overslept, ... Notice that this essentially makes 'He's overslept' into something modally somewhere along the continuum towards a declarative question rather than a pure assertion.
– Edwin Ashworth
Nov 13 '15 at 13:10
I'd not consider the first tag question jarring; the context dictates the sense of the tag. The other two tags would be appropriate with 'he's overslept, ... Notice that this essentially makes 'He's overslept' into something modally somewhere along the continuum towards a declarative question rather than a pure assertion.
– Edwin Ashworth
Nov 13 '15 at 13:10
Yeah, frankly they all sound terrible. Using "must have" with a clause that reiterates as a question like that (except perhaps with "dontcha think") is basically not workable. Rephrase.
– Hot Licks
Nov 13 '15 at 13:11
Yeah, frankly they all sound terrible. Using "must have" with a clause that reiterates as a question like that (except perhaps with "dontcha think") is basically not workable. Rephrase.
– Hot Licks
Nov 13 '15 at 13:11
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
All three are awful and beg to be rephrased:
- He overslept, didn't he?
- He must have overslept, don't you think?
answered Nov 13 '15 at 12:30
DJ FarDJ Far
2,587810
add a comment |
About 313,000 results on a Google search for "mustn't he" would perhaps indicate that people saying the usage is terrible (1) haven't checked and (2) are speaking subjectively.
UsingEnglish.com has an article addressing this debate:
He must have seen it, mustn't he?
This is the first time I have seen such a question tag as with 'must
have done'. In China's English tests or examinations, such a tag is
thought to be absolutely wrong. They say we must use 'hasn't he?'.
They also say we must say 'He must have seen it yesterday, didn't he?'
I thought 'mustn't he?' was fine, but I had never found any proof. Now
that I've got this sentence, I'd like to know how authoritative it is
and whether we can use this sentence at all.
Might I ask native English teachers to help me clarify this puzzle of
mine?
Joham
And after checking, as well as being familiar with the usage, I can agree with the reply [bolding mine]:
There's nothing wrong with this. Any other tag question implies an ellipsis such as 'He must have done it. [Tell me I'm not wrong.
(Beginning to be unsure) He did...] Didn't he?'. In that case, it's
not really a tag question at all, as it's not asking for routine
confirmation of a certainty.
BobK
The modal tag-question is very common:
I can go out tonight, can't I?
They could go via Vail, couldn't they?
It would be a disaster, wouldn't it?
He must use the lift, mustn't he?
I shall die, shan't I? [formal]
He'll tell his dad, won't he?
'Mightn't' may sound a little awkward, but 'mustn't' is in regular use, at least in some areas. ODO includes the contraction and a tag-question usage:
So I thought, if it's man made, there must be someone driving it,
mustn't there?
answered Nov 13 '15 at 13:18
Edwin AshworthEdwin Ashworth
49.2k1091156
I understand your annoyance at people from different dialects denying the existence of a construction found in your dialect; but I don't think it's productive to just flip that around and do the same thing in reverse. You could take this opportunity to step up and write an answer that speaks directly to the dialect difference, instead of just promoting your dialect instead of theirs. (Or failing that, you could at least indicate upfront which dialect you're writing about.)
– ruakh
Aug 11 '18 at 14:46
add a comment |
well I like the first one because it makes a lot of sense
answered 5 hours ago
Alexandria ParkerAlexandria Parker
91
New contributor
Alexandria Parker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
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3 Answers
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All three are awful and beg to be rephrased:
- He overslept, didn't he?
- He must have overslept, don't you think?
answered Nov 13 '15 at 12:30
DJ FarDJ Far
2,587810
add a comment |
All three are awful and beg to be rephrased:
- He overslept, didn't he?
- He must have overslept, don't you think?
answered Nov 13 '15 at 12:30
DJ FarDJ Far
2,587810
add a comment |
All three are awful and beg to be rephrased:
- He overslept, didn't he?
- He must have overslept, don't you think?
answered Nov 13 '15 at 12:30
DJ FarDJ Far
2,587810
All three are awful and beg to be rephrased:
- He overslept, didn't he?
- He must have overslept, don't you think?
answered Nov 13 '15 at 12:30
DJ FarDJ Far
2,587810
answered Nov 13 '15 at 12:30
DJ FarDJ Far
2,587810
answered Nov 13 '15 at 12:30
DJ FarDJ Far
2,587810
answered Nov 13 '15 at 12:30
DJ FarDJ Far
2,587810
2,587810
add a comment |
add a comment |
About 313,000 results on a Google search for "mustn't he" would perhaps indicate that people saying the usage is terrible (1) haven't checked and (2) are speaking subjectively.
UsingEnglish.com has an article addressing this debate:
He must have seen it, mustn't he?
This is the first time I have seen such a question tag as with 'must
have done'. In China's English tests or examinations, such a tag is
thought to be absolutely wrong. They say we must use 'hasn't he?'.
They also say we must say 'He must have seen it yesterday, didn't he?'
I thought 'mustn't he?' was fine, but I had never found any proof. Now
that I've got this sentence, I'd like to know how authoritative it is
and whether we can use this sentence at all.
Might I ask native English teachers to help me clarify this puzzle of
mine?
Joham
And after checking, as well as being familiar with the usage, I can agree with the reply [bolding mine]:
There's nothing wrong with this. Any other tag question implies an ellipsis such as 'He must have done it. [Tell me I'm not wrong.
(Beginning to be unsure) He did...] Didn't he?'. In that case, it's
not really a tag question at all, as it's not asking for routine
confirmation of a certainty.
BobK
The modal tag-question is very common:
I can go out tonight, can't I?
They could go via Vail, couldn't they?
It would be a disaster, wouldn't it?
He must use the lift, mustn't he?
I shall die, shan't I? [formal]
He'll tell his dad, won't he?
'Mightn't' may sound a little awkward, but 'mustn't' is in regular use, at least in some areas. ODO includes the contraction and a tag-question usage:
So I thought, if it's man made, there must be someone driving it,
mustn't there?
answered Nov 13 '15 at 13:18
Edwin AshworthEdwin Ashworth
49.2k1091156
I understand your annoyance at people from different dialects denying the existence of a construction found in your dialect; but I don't think it's productive to just flip that around and do the same thing in reverse. You could take this opportunity to step up and write an answer that speaks directly to the dialect difference, instead of just promoting your dialect instead of theirs. (Or failing that, you could at least indicate upfront which dialect you're writing about.)
– ruakh
Aug 11 '18 at 14:46
add a comment |
About 313,000 results on a Google search for "mustn't he" would perhaps indicate that people saying the usage is terrible (1) haven't checked and (2) are speaking subjectively.
UsingEnglish.com has an article addressing this debate:
He must have seen it, mustn't he?
This is the first time I have seen such a question tag as with 'must
have done'. In China's English tests or examinations, such a tag is
thought to be absolutely wrong. They say we must use 'hasn't he?'.
They also say we must say 'He must have seen it yesterday, didn't he?'
I thought 'mustn't he?' was fine, but I had never found any proof. Now
that I've got this sentence, I'd like to know how authoritative it is
and whether we can use this sentence at all.
Might I ask native English teachers to help me clarify this puzzle of
mine?
Joham
And after checking, as well as being familiar with the usage, I can agree with the reply [bolding mine]:
There's nothing wrong with this. Any other tag question implies an ellipsis such as 'He must have done it. [Tell me I'm not wrong.
(Beginning to be unsure) He did...] Didn't he?'. In that case, it's
not really a tag question at all, as it's not asking for routine
confirmation of a certainty.
BobK
The modal tag-question is very common:
I can go out tonight, can't I?
They could go via Vail, couldn't they?
It would be a disaster, wouldn't it?
He must use the lift, mustn't he?
I shall die, shan't I? [formal]
He'll tell his dad, won't he?
'Mightn't' may sound a little awkward, but 'mustn't' is in regular use, at least in some areas. ODO includes the contraction and a tag-question usage:
So I thought, if it's man made, there must be someone driving it,
mustn't there?
answered Nov 13 '15 at 13:18
Edwin AshworthEdwin Ashworth
49.2k1091156
I understand your annoyance at people from different dialects denying the existence of a construction found in your dialect; but I don't think it's productive to just flip that around and do the same thing in reverse. You could take this opportunity to step up and write an answer that speaks directly to the dialect difference, instead of just promoting your dialect instead of theirs. (Or failing that, you could at least indicate upfront which dialect you're writing about.)
– ruakh
Aug 11 '18 at 14:46
add a comment |
About 313,000 results on a Google search for "mustn't he" would perhaps indicate that people saying the usage is terrible (1) haven't checked and (2) are speaking subjectively.
UsingEnglish.com has an article addressing this debate:
He must have seen it, mustn't he?
This is the first time I have seen such a question tag as with 'must
have done'. In China's English tests or examinations, such a tag is
thought to be absolutely wrong. They say we must use 'hasn't he?'.
They also say we must say 'He must have seen it yesterday, didn't he?'
I thought 'mustn't he?' was fine, but I had never found any proof. Now
that I've got this sentence, I'd like to know how authoritative it is
and whether we can use this sentence at all.
Might I ask native English teachers to help me clarify this puzzle of
mine?
Joham
And after checking, as well as being familiar with the usage, I can agree with the reply [bolding mine]:
There's nothing wrong with this. Any other tag question implies an ellipsis such as 'He must have done it. [Tell me I'm not wrong.
(Beginning to be unsure) He did...] Didn't he?'. In that case, it's
not really a tag question at all, as it's not asking for routine
confirmation of a certainty.
BobK
The modal tag-question is very common:
I can go out tonight, can't I?
They could go via Vail, couldn't they?
It would be a disaster, wouldn't it?
He must use the lift, mustn't he?
I shall die, shan't I? [formal]
He'll tell his dad, won't he?
'Mightn't' may sound a little awkward, but 'mustn't' is in regular use, at least in some areas. ODO includes the contraction and a tag-question usage:
So I thought, if it's man made, there must be someone driving it,
mustn't there?
answered Nov 13 '15 at 13:18
Edwin AshworthEdwin Ashworth
49.2k1091156
About 313,000 results on a Google search for "mustn't he" would perhaps indicate that people saying the usage is terrible (1) haven't checked and (2) are speaking subjectively.
UsingEnglish.com has an article addressing this debate:
He must have seen it, mustn't he?
This is the first time I have seen such a question tag as with 'must
have done'. In China's English tests or examinations, such a tag is
thought to be absolutely wrong. They say we must use 'hasn't he?'.
They also say we must say 'He must have seen it yesterday, didn't he?'
I thought 'mustn't he?' was fine, but I had never found any proof. Now
that I've got this sentence, I'd like to know how authoritative it is
and whether we can use this sentence at all.
Might I ask native English teachers to help me clarify this puzzle of
mine?
Joham
And after checking, as well as being familiar with the usage, I can agree with the reply [bolding mine]:
There's nothing wrong with this. Any other tag question implies an ellipsis such as 'He must have done it. [Tell me I'm not wrong.
(Beginning to be unsure) He did...] Didn't he?'. In that case, it's
not really a tag question at all, as it's not asking for routine
confirmation of a certainty.
BobK
The modal tag-question is very common:
I can go out tonight, can't I?
They could go via Vail, couldn't they?
It would be a disaster, wouldn't it?
He must use the lift, mustn't he?
I shall die, shan't I? [formal]
He'll tell his dad, won't he?
'Mightn't' may sound a little awkward, but 'mustn't' is in regular use, at least in some areas. ODO includes the contraction and a tag-question usage:
So I thought, if it's man made, there must be someone driving it,
mustn't there?
answered Nov 13 '15 at 13:18
Edwin AshworthEdwin Ashworth
49.2k1091156
edited Nov 13 '15 at 14:16
answered Nov 13 '15 at 13:18
Edwin AshworthEdwin Ashworth
49.2k1091156
answered Nov 13 '15 at 13:18
Edwin AshworthEdwin Ashworth
49.2k1091156
answered Nov 13 '15 at 13:18
Edwin AshworthEdwin Ashworth
49.2k1091156
49.2k1091156
I understand your annoyance at people from different dialects denying the existence of a construction found in your dialect; but I don't think it's productive to just flip that around and do the same thing in reverse. You could take this opportunity to step up and write an answer that speaks directly to the dialect difference, instead of just promoting your dialect instead of theirs. (Or failing that, you could at least indicate upfront which dialect you're writing about.)
– ruakh
Aug 11 '18 at 14:46
add a comment |
I understand your annoyance at people from different dialects denying the existence of a construction found in your dialect; but I don't think it's productive to just flip that around and do the same thing in reverse. You could take this opportunity to step up and write an answer that speaks directly to the dialect difference, instead of just promoting your dialect instead of theirs. (Or failing that, you could at least indicate upfront which dialect you're writing about.)
– ruakh
Aug 11 '18 at 14:46
I understand your annoyance at people from different dialects denying the existence of a construction found in your dialect; but I don't think it's productive to just flip that around and do the same thing in reverse. You could take this opportunity to step up and write an answer that speaks directly to the dialect difference, instead of just promoting your dialect instead of theirs. (Or failing that, you could at least indicate upfront which dialect you're writing about.)
– ruakh
Aug 11 '18 at 14:46
I understand your annoyance at people from different dialects denying the existence of a construction found in your dialect; but I don't think it's productive to just flip that around and do the same thing in reverse. You could take this opportunity to step up and write an answer that speaks directly to the dialect difference, instead of just promoting your dialect instead of theirs. (Or failing that, you could at least indicate upfront which dialect you're writing about.)
– ruakh
Aug 11 '18 at 14:46
add a comment |
well I like the first one because it makes a lot of sense
answered 5 hours ago
Alexandria ParkerAlexandria Parker
91
New contributor
Alexandria Parker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
well I like the first one because it makes a lot of sense
answered 5 hours ago
Alexandria ParkerAlexandria Parker
91
New contributor
Alexandria Parker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
well I like the first one because it makes a lot of sense
answered 5 hours ago
Alexandria ParkerAlexandria Parker
91
New contributor
Alexandria Parker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
well I like the first one because it makes a lot of sense
answered 5 hours ago
Alexandria ParkerAlexandria Parker
91
New contributor
Alexandria Parker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 5 hours ago
Alexandria ParkerAlexandria Parker
91
New contributor
Alexandria Parker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 5 hours ago
Alexandria ParkerAlexandria Parker
91
answered 5 hours ago
Alexandria ParkerAlexandria Parker
91
91
New contributor
Alexandria Parker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Alexandria Parker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Alexandria Parker is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
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I'd not consider the first tag question jarring; the context dictates the sense of the tag. The other two tags would be appropriate with 'he's overslept, ... Notice that this essentially makes 'He's overslept' into something modally somewhere along the continuum towards a declarative question rather than a pure assertion.
– Edwin Ashworth
Nov 13 '15 at 13:10
Yeah, frankly they all sound terrible. Using "must have" with a clause that reiterates as a question like that (except perhaps with "dontcha think") is basically not workable. Rephrase.
– Hot Licks
Nov 13 '15 at 13:11