Proper use of “old brother” and “young brother” compared to “older brother” and “younger...












0















For my entire life, I have been using "older brother" and "younger brother" whenever I write a story in English. I know that "older brother" and "younger brother" are applied to blood-related persons. But what about "old brother" and "young brother"?



I recently read some translated Chinese web-novels that use "old brother" and "young brother" to refer to non-blood related persons. So I started wondering, could "old brother" and "young brother" also be applied to blood-related persons in actual English? For example, instead of using "My older brother and I always go out on a walk in the morning", can we use "My old brother and I always go out on a walk in the morning"?



I read a forum post that *said we use "my old brother" when we refer to our only brother (who is older than ourselves): http://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst86814_my-younger-brother.aspx
(< scroll down to post by Romany.)




Once upon a time...when Drago and I were educated, there was a "rule"
which only allowed one interpretation: "Younger" indicated that there
were TWO brothers (One is young, the other is younger). "Youngest"
gave no indication of how many brothers one had. And if one only had
one brother, and he was younger than the speaker then one said "My
young brother" - no superlative used.



Like many of the rules which were falsely attached to English, this
one is no longer applicable except in academic writing. But it did
help to clarify the situation, so I still use it - mainly because it
clarifies things in my own head.




In that case, wouldn't using "my old brother" when describing blood related person(s) be correct, or at least acceptable?



If yes, in that context, does "my old brother" mean that my brother is very old (as in 50+), or is it just the same as "my older brother" (can be any age)? Is there a historical precedent of using such terms during a certain era? Or, do we only use them when we consider the cultural differences? Or, can we also use them in the literary writing? Or, how about in the day-to-day conversations as well?



Lastly, in what other situations can we use "old brother"?






  • = the original forum post by Romany used "young brother" instead of "old brother"










share|improve this question




















  • 2





    Translated Chinese web novels might not be completely idiomatic

    – Andrew MacFie
    Dec 5 '16 at 20:46











  • Google Ngrams might be useful here.

    – Mick
    Dec 5 '16 at 20:55






  • 1





    "Older" brother means that he is older than you. If you are 5, and he is 6, then he is older, but not old. If you are 5 and he is 50, then he is both your older brother and old brother. (Also, the word "old" has different meaning to different people.) If you are writing English, don't use "old" for this.

    – MikeP
    Dec 5 '16 at 21:13






  • 1





    @Thurathetti Bottom line: no, it is not idiomatic in any register or context to use old brother to mean older brother. I read Romany's post and I have never heard of the practice he describes: I think it was a usage invented and used in his family. No one else would understand what he meant, whether in speech, academic writing, literature, or anywhere else. The Chinese web novels are trying to translate a concept that doesn't exist in Western culture, so the language is necessarily going to be awkward. Here's a similar example: English equivalent of garam.

    – Dan Bron
    Dec 5 '16 at 21:50








  • 1





    Generally speaking, one would not use "old brother" at all, except when the intent was to emphasize the age of the individual.

    – Hot Licks
    Dec 5 '16 at 22:36
















0















For my entire life, I have been using "older brother" and "younger brother" whenever I write a story in English. I know that "older brother" and "younger brother" are applied to blood-related persons. But what about "old brother" and "young brother"?



I recently read some translated Chinese web-novels that use "old brother" and "young brother" to refer to non-blood related persons. So I started wondering, could "old brother" and "young brother" also be applied to blood-related persons in actual English? For example, instead of using "My older brother and I always go out on a walk in the morning", can we use "My old brother and I always go out on a walk in the morning"?



I read a forum post that *said we use "my old brother" when we refer to our only brother (who is older than ourselves): http://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst86814_my-younger-brother.aspx
(< scroll down to post by Romany.)




Once upon a time...when Drago and I were educated, there was a "rule"
which only allowed one interpretation: "Younger" indicated that there
were TWO brothers (One is young, the other is younger). "Youngest"
gave no indication of how many brothers one had. And if one only had
one brother, and he was younger than the speaker then one said "My
young brother" - no superlative used.



Like many of the rules which were falsely attached to English, this
one is no longer applicable except in academic writing. But it did
help to clarify the situation, so I still use it - mainly because it
clarifies things in my own head.




In that case, wouldn't using "my old brother" when describing blood related person(s) be correct, or at least acceptable?



If yes, in that context, does "my old brother" mean that my brother is very old (as in 50+), or is it just the same as "my older brother" (can be any age)? Is there a historical precedent of using such terms during a certain era? Or, do we only use them when we consider the cultural differences? Or, can we also use them in the literary writing? Or, how about in the day-to-day conversations as well?



Lastly, in what other situations can we use "old brother"?






  • = the original forum post by Romany used "young brother" instead of "old brother"










share|improve this question




















  • 2





    Translated Chinese web novels might not be completely idiomatic

    – Andrew MacFie
    Dec 5 '16 at 20:46











  • Google Ngrams might be useful here.

    – Mick
    Dec 5 '16 at 20:55






  • 1





    "Older" brother means that he is older than you. If you are 5, and he is 6, then he is older, but not old. If you are 5 and he is 50, then he is both your older brother and old brother. (Also, the word "old" has different meaning to different people.) If you are writing English, don't use "old" for this.

    – MikeP
    Dec 5 '16 at 21:13






  • 1





    @Thurathetti Bottom line: no, it is not idiomatic in any register or context to use old brother to mean older brother. I read Romany's post and I have never heard of the practice he describes: I think it was a usage invented and used in his family. No one else would understand what he meant, whether in speech, academic writing, literature, or anywhere else. The Chinese web novels are trying to translate a concept that doesn't exist in Western culture, so the language is necessarily going to be awkward. Here's a similar example: English equivalent of garam.

    – Dan Bron
    Dec 5 '16 at 21:50








  • 1





    Generally speaking, one would not use "old brother" at all, except when the intent was to emphasize the age of the individual.

    – Hot Licks
    Dec 5 '16 at 22:36














0












0








0


1






For my entire life, I have been using "older brother" and "younger brother" whenever I write a story in English. I know that "older brother" and "younger brother" are applied to blood-related persons. But what about "old brother" and "young brother"?



I recently read some translated Chinese web-novels that use "old brother" and "young brother" to refer to non-blood related persons. So I started wondering, could "old brother" and "young brother" also be applied to blood-related persons in actual English? For example, instead of using "My older brother and I always go out on a walk in the morning", can we use "My old brother and I always go out on a walk in the morning"?



I read a forum post that *said we use "my old brother" when we refer to our only brother (who is older than ourselves): http://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst86814_my-younger-brother.aspx
(< scroll down to post by Romany.)




Once upon a time...when Drago and I were educated, there was a "rule"
which only allowed one interpretation: "Younger" indicated that there
were TWO brothers (One is young, the other is younger). "Youngest"
gave no indication of how many brothers one had. And if one only had
one brother, and he was younger than the speaker then one said "My
young brother" - no superlative used.



Like many of the rules which were falsely attached to English, this
one is no longer applicable except in academic writing. But it did
help to clarify the situation, so I still use it - mainly because it
clarifies things in my own head.




In that case, wouldn't using "my old brother" when describing blood related person(s) be correct, or at least acceptable?



If yes, in that context, does "my old brother" mean that my brother is very old (as in 50+), or is it just the same as "my older brother" (can be any age)? Is there a historical precedent of using such terms during a certain era? Or, do we only use them when we consider the cultural differences? Or, can we also use them in the literary writing? Or, how about in the day-to-day conversations as well?



Lastly, in what other situations can we use "old brother"?






  • = the original forum post by Romany used "young brother" instead of "old brother"










share|improve this question
















For my entire life, I have been using "older brother" and "younger brother" whenever I write a story in English. I know that "older brother" and "younger brother" are applied to blood-related persons. But what about "old brother" and "young brother"?



I recently read some translated Chinese web-novels that use "old brother" and "young brother" to refer to non-blood related persons. So I started wondering, could "old brother" and "young brother" also be applied to blood-related persons in actual English? For example, instead of using "My older brother and I always go out on a walk in the morning", can we use "My old brother and I always go out on a walk in the morning"?



I read a forum post that *said we use "my old brother" when we refer to our only brother (who is older than ourselves): http://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst86814_my-younger-brother.aspx
(< scroll down to post by Romany.)




Once upon a time...when Drago and I were educated, there was a "rule"
which only allowed one interpretation: "Younger" indicated that there
were TWO brothers (One is young, the other is younger). "Youngest"
gave no indication of how many brothers one had. And if one only had
one brother, and he was younger than the speaker then one said "My
young brother" - no superlative used.



Like many of the rules which were falsely attached to English, this
one is no longer applicable except in academic writing. But it did
help to clarify the situation, so I still use it - mainly because it
clarifies things in my own head.




In that case, wouldn't using "my old brother" when describing blood related person(s) be correct, or at least acceptable?



If yes, in that context, does "my old brother" mean that my brother is very old (as in 50+), or is it just the same as "my older brother" (can be any age)? Is there a historical precedent of using such terms during a certain era? Or, do we only use them when we consider the cultural differences? Or, can we also use them in the literary writing? Or, how about in the day-to-day conversations as well?



Lastly, in what other situations can we use "old brother"?






  • = the original forum post by Romany used "young brother" instead of "old brother"







meaning grammar word-usage expressions differences






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Dec 5 '16 at 23:26







Thurathetti

















asked Dec 5 '16 at 20:44









ThurathettiThurathetti

4113




4113








  • 2





    Translated Chinese web novels might not be completely idiomatic

    – Andrew MacFie
    Dec 5 '16 at 20:46











  • Google Ngrams might be useful here.

    – Mick
    Dec 5 '16 at 20:55






  • 1





    "Older" brother means that he is older than you. If you are 5, and he is 6, then he is older, but not old. If you are 5 and he is 50, then he is both your older brother and old brother. (Also, the word "old" has different meaning to different people.) If you are writing English, don't use "old" for this.

    – MikeP
    Dec 5 '16 at 21:13






  • 1





    @Thurathetti Bottom line: no, it is not idiomatic in any register or context to use old brother to mean older brother. I read Romany's post and I have never heard of the practice he describes: I think it was a usage invented and used in his family. No one else would understand what he meant, whether in speech, academic writing, literature, or anywhere else. The Chinese web novels are trying to translate a concept that doesn't exist in Western culture, so the language is necessarily going to be awkward. Here's a similar example: English equivalent of garam.

    – Dan Bron
    Dec 5 '16 at 21:50








  • 1





    Generally speaking, one would not use "old brother" at all, except when the intent was to emphasize the age of the individual.

    – Hot Licks
    Dec 5 '16 at 22:36














  • 2





    Translated Chinese web novels might not be completely idiomatic

    – Andrew MacFie
    Dec 5 '16 at 20:46











  • Google Ngrams might be useful here.

    – Mick
    Dec 5 '16 at 20:55






  • 1





    "Older" brother means that he is older than you. If you are 5, and he is 6, then he is older, but not old. If you are 5 and he is 50, then he is both your older brother and old brother. (Also, the word "old" has different meaning to different people.) If you are writing English, don't use "old" for this.

    – MikeP
    Dec 5 '16 at 21:13






  • 1





    @Thurathetti Bottom line: no, it is not idiomatic in any register or context to use old brother to mean older brother. I read Romany's post and I have never heard of the practice he describes: I think it was a usage invented and used in his family. No one else would understand what he meant, whether in speech, academic writing, literature, or anywhere else. The Chinese web novels are trying to translate a concept that doesn't exist in Western culture, so the language is necessarily going to be awkward. Here's a similar example: English equivalent of garam.

    – Dan Bron
    Dec 5 '16 at 21:50








  • 1





    Generally speaking, one would not use "old brother" at all, except when the intent was to emphasize the age of the individual.

    – Hot Licks
    Dec 5 '16 at 22:36








2




2





Translated Chinese web novels might not be completely idiomatic

– Andrew MacFie
Dec 5 '16 at 20:46





Translated Chinese web novels might not be completely idiomatic

– Andrew MacFie
Dec 5 '16 at 20:46













Google Ngrams might be useful here.

– Mick
Dec 5 '16 at 20:55





Google Ngrams might be useful here.

– Mick
Dec 5 '16 at 20:55




1




1





"Older" brother means that he is older than you. If you are 5, and he is 6, then he is older, but not old. If you are 5 and he is 50, then he is both your older brother and old brother. (Also, the word "old" has different meaning to different people.) If you are writing English, don't use "old" for this.

– MikeP
Dec 5 '16 at 21:13





"Older" brother means that he is older than you. If you are 5, and he is 6, then he is older, but not old. If you are 5 and he is 50, then he is both your older brother and old brother. (Also, the word "old" has different meaning to different people.) If you are writing English, don't use "old" for this.

– MikeP
Dec 5 '16 at 21:13




1




1





@Thurathetti Bottom line: no, it is not idiomatic in any register or context to use old brother to mean older brother. I read Romany's post and I have never heard of the practice he describes: I think it was a usage invented and used in his family. No one else would understand what he meant, whether in speech, academic writing, literature, or anywhere else. The Chinese web novels are trying to translate a concept that doesn't exist in Western culture, so the language is necessarily going to be awkward. Here's a similar example: English equivalent of garam.

– Dan Bron
Dec 5 '16 at 21:50







@Thurathetti Bottom line: no, it is not idiomatic in any register or context to use old brother to mean older brother. I read Romany's post and I have never heard of the practice he describes: I think it was a usage invented and used in his family. No one else would understand what he meant, whether in speech, academic writing, literature, or anywhere else. The Chinese web novels are trying to translate a concept that doesn't exist in Western culture, so the language is necessarily going to be awkward. Here's a similar example: English equivalent of garam.

– Dan Bron
Dec 5 '16 at 21:50






1




1





Generally speaking, one would not use "old brother" at all, except when the intent was to emphasize the age of the individual.

– Hot Licks
Dec 5 '16 at 22:36





Generally speaking, one would not use "old brother" at all, except when the intent was to emphasize the age of the individual.

– Hot Licks
Dec 5 '16 at 22:36










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















3














As mentioned in the comments, it's never standard to use "old brother" or "young brother" in place of "older brother" or "younger brother".




It is not idiomatic in any register or context to use old brother to
mean older brother. I read Romany's post and I have never heard of the
practice he describes: I think it was a usage invented and used in his
family. No one else would understand what he meant, whether in speech,
academic writing, literature, or anywhere else. The Chinese web novels
are trying to translate a concept that doesn't exist in Western
culture, so the language is necessarily going to be awkward.




– Dan Bron




"Older" brother means that he is older than you. If you are 5, and he
is 6, then he is older, but not old. If you are 5 and he is 50, then
he is both your older brother and old brother. (Also, the word "old"
has different meaning to different people.) If you are writing
English, don't use "old" for this.




– MikeP



"My old brother" can be used in the sense of "my brother, who is old", and "my young brother" can be used in the sense of "my brother, who is young". However, these phrases are not commonly used. "Brother" in this context could refer to a blood relation, or to any of the other possible meanings of the word.




Generally speaking, one would not use "old brother" at all, except
when the intent was to emphasize the age of the individual.




– Hot Licks




Monks are often called brothers, as are communist party and trades
union members. So, referring to "a young brother", etc, is not
necessarily incorrect. However, for blood relations? I don't think so.




– Mick






share|improve this answer

































    -3














    he not Mean That is my Brother it is Quentin Dominic it was True story my Brother Dominic Quentin he was a High school B&B Flocan Baileyville






    share|improve this answer








    New contributor




    Anna Schmitz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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    • This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review

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    2 Answers
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    2 Answers
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    active

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    active

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    3














    As mentioned in the comments, it's never standard to use "old brother" or "young brother" in place of "older brother" or "younger brother".




    It is not idiomatic in any register or context to use old brother to
    mean older brother. I read Romany's post and I have never heard of the
    practice he describes: I think it was a usage invented and used in his
    family. No one else would understand what he meant, whether in speech,
    academic writing, literature, or anywhere else. The Chinese web novels
    are trying to translate a concept that doesn't exist in Western
    culture, so the language is necessarily going to be awkward.




    – Dan Bron




    "Older" brother means that he is older than you. If you are 5, and he
    is 6, then he is older, but not old. If you are 5 and he is 50, then
    he is both your older brother and old brother. (Also, the word "old"
    has different meaning to different people.) If you are writing
    English, don't use "old" for this.




    – MikeP



    "My old brother" can be used in the sense of "my brother, who is old", and "my young brother" can be used in the sense of "my brother, who is young". However, these phrases are not commonly used. "Brother" in this context could refer to a blood relation, or to any of the other possible meanings of the word.




    Generally speaking, one would not use "old brother" at all, except
    when the intent was to emphasize the age of the individual.




    – Hot Licks




    Monks are often called brothers, as are communist party and trades
    union members. So, referring to "a young brother", etc, is not
    necessarily incorrect. However, for blood relations? I don't think so.




    – Mick






    share|improve this answer






























      3














      As mentioned in the comments, it's never standard to use "old brother" or "young brother" in place of "older brother" or "younger brother".




      It is not idiomatic in any register or context to use old brother to
      mean older brother. I read Romany's post and I have never heard of the
      practice he describes: I think it was a usage invented and used in his
      family. No one else would understand what he meant, whether in speech,
      academic writing, literature, or anywhere else. The Chinese web novels
      are trying to translate a concept that doesn't exist in Western
      culture, so the language is necessarily going to be awkward.




      – Dan Bron




      "Older" brother means that he is older than you. If you are 5, and he
      is 6, then he is older, but not old. If you are 5 and he is 50, then
      he is both your older brother and old brother. (Also, the word "old"
      has different meaning to different people.) If you are writing
      English, don't use "old" for this.




      – MikeP



      "My old brother" can be used in the sense of "my brother, who is old", and "my young brother" can be used in the sense of "my brother, who is young". However, these phrases are not commonly used. "Brother" in this context could refer to a blood relation, or to any of the other possible meanings of the word.




      Generally speaking, one would not use "old brother" at all, except
      when the intent was to emphasize the age of the individual.




      – Hot Licks




      Monks are often called brothers, as are communist party and trades
      union members. So, referring to "a young brother", etc, is not
      necessarily incorrect. However, for blood relations? I don't think so.




      – Mick






      share|improve this answer




























        3












        3








        3







        As mentioned in the comments, it's never standard to use "old brother" or "young brother" in place of "older brother" or "younger brother".




        It is not idiomatic in any register or context to use old brother to
        mean older brother. I read Romany's post and I have never heard of the
        practice he describes: I think it was a usage invented and used in his
        family. No one else would understand what he meant, whether in speech,
        academic writing, literature, or anywhere else. The Chinese web novels
        are trying to translate a concept that doesn't exist in Western
        culture, so the language is necessarily going to be awkward.




        – Dan Bron




        "Older" brother means that he is older than you. If you are 5, and he
        is 6, then he is older, but not old. If you are 5 and he is 50, then
        he is both your older brother and old brother. (Also, the word "old"
        has different meaning to different people.) If you are writing
        English, don't use "old" for this.




        – MikeP



        "My old brother" can be used in the sense of "my brother, who is old", and "my young brother" can be used in the sense of "my brother, who is young". However, these phrases are not commonly used. "Brother" in this context could refer to a blood relation, or to any of the other possible meanings of the word.




        Generally speaking, one would not use "old brother" at all, except
        when the intent was to emphasize the age of the individual.




        – Hot Licks




        Monks are often called brothers, as are communist party and trades
        union members. So, referring to "a young brother", etc, is not
        necessarily incorrect. However, for blood relations? I don't think so.




        – Mick






        share|improve this answer















        As mentioned in the comments, it's never standard to use "old brother" or "young brother" in place of "older brother" or "younger brother".




        It is not idiomatic in any register or context to use old brother to
        mean older brother. I read Romany's post and I have never heard of the
        practice he describes: I think it was a usage invented and used in his
        family. No one else would understand what he meant, whether in speech,
        academic writing, literature, or anywhere else. The Chinese web novels
        are trying to translate a concept that doesn't exist in Western
        culture, so the language is necessarily going to be awkward.




        – Dan Bron




        "Older" brother means that he is older than you. If you are 5, and he
        is 6, then he is older, but not old. If you are 5 and he is 50, then
        he is both your older brother and old brother. (Also, the word "old"
        has different meaning to different people.) If you are writing
        English, don't use "old" for this.




        – MikeP



        "My old brother" can be used in the sense of "my brother, who is old", and "my young brother" can be used in the sense of "my brother, who is young". However, these phrases are not commonly used. "Brother" in this context could refer to a blood relation, or to any of the other possible meanings of the word.




        Generally speaking, one would not use "old brother" at all, except
        when the intent was to emphasize the age of the individual.




        – Hot Licks




        Monks are often called brothers, as are communist party and trades
        union members. So, referring to "a young brother", etc, is not
        necessarily incorrect. However, for blood relations? I don't think so.




        – Mick







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited Apr 13 '17 at 12:38


























        community wiki





        3 revs
        sumelic


























            -3














            he not Mean That is my Brother it is Quentin Dominic it was True story my Brother Dominic Quentin he was a High school B&B Flocan Baileyville






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Anna Schmitz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.





















            • This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review

              – Chappo
              27 mins ago
















            -3














            he not Mean That is my Brother it is Quentin Dominic it was True story my Brother Dominic Quentin he was a High school B&B Flocan Baileyville






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Anna Schmitz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.





















            • This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review

              – Chappo
              27 mins ago














            -3












            -3








            -3







            he not Mean That is my Brother it is Quentin Dominic it was True story my Brother Dominic Quentin he was a High school B&B Flocan Baileyville






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            he not Mean That is my Brother it is Quentin Dominic it was True story my Brother Dominic Quentin he was a High school B&B Flocan Baileyville







            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Anna Schmitz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer






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            answered 7 hours ago









            Anna SchmitzAnna Schmitz

            1




            1




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            New contributor





            Anna Schmitz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            Anna Schmitz is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            • This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review

              – Chappo
              27 mins ago



















            • This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review

              – Chappo
              27 mins ago

















            This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review

            – Chappo
            27 mins ago





            This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review

            – Chappo
            27 mins ago


















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