the use of “can be” in passive voice












0















I'm not a native English speaker and I see a sort of striking contradiction in the use of the expression in the passive voice





something can/can not be + past participle





e.g





the problem can not be solved





or





I can't be killed





or





the door can be opened





I know what the English native speakers want to say with this expresion but I see it weird to attribute "can" to an object ; then "can" and the passive voice are contradictory - isn't it like saying :





the door can undergo to be opened





Can is bound to all what relates to ability,action...while the passive voice is bound to the passivity,non action...thus the expression is like





the door is active to be passive





1)"can" and "undergo" does not go together !



2)It's human that can,not objects (such as "doors") or abstract things (such as "problems")



I know ,maybe, I have not well explained my idea - but is this a legacy from an old language or just an habit that became a rule ?










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  • "The door can undergo being opened" is a grammatical sentence. "Can" and "undergo" go fine together. All that makes that example wrong is you using the infinitive "to be" rather than the gerund "being" since the gerund phrase "being opened" is the object of the verb "undergo."

    – Benjamin Harman
    2 days ago











  • By the way, I myself didn't answer this question because @Centaurus more or less gave the answer I would've given. All I might've added is that "can" is being used as a helping verb like "shall" or "will" and that the verb "be" is the main verb and is what casts it into the passive voice.

    – Benjamin Harman
    2 days ago











  • Your talk of "contradiction" wanders into the nonsensical as objects are quite capable of action, not that that's the case here since the passive voice is what's being used. Nevertheless, all verb subjects are not animate, far from it. I can't help but think that you went a little harebrained, that you started thinking in circles so much that you lost the plot and started thinking and then saying things that obviously aren't true. To be clear, there is nothing unusual about this construction in English. I speak four languages, and it exists in all of them.

    – Benjamin Harman
    2 days ago
















0















I'm not a native English speaker and I see a sort of striking contradiction in the use of the expression in the passive voice





something can/can not be + past participle





e.g





the problem can not be solved





or





I can't be killed





or





the door can be opened





I know what the English native speakers want to say with this expresion but I see it weird to attribute "can" to an object ; then "can" and the passive voice are contradictory - isn't it like saying :





the door can undergo to be opened





Can is bound to all what relates to ability,action...while the passive voice is bound to the passivity,non action...thus the expression is like





the door is active to be passive





1)"can" and "undergo" does not go together !



2)It's human that can,not objects (such as "doors") or abstract things (such as "problems")



I know ,maybe, I have not well explained my idea - but is this a legacy from an old language or just an habit that became a rule ?










share|improve this question









New contributor




jihed gasmi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • "The door can undergo being opened" is a grammatical sentence. "Can" and "undergo" go fine together. All that makes that example wrong is you using the infinitive "to be" rather than the gerund "being" since the gerund phrase "being opened" is the object of the verb "undergo."

    – Benjamin Harman
    2 days ago











  • By the way, I myself didn't answer this question because @Centaurus more or less gave the answer I would've given. All I might've added is that "can" is being used as a helping verb like "shall" or "will" and that the verb "be" is the main verb and is what casts it into the passive voice.

    – Benjamin Harman
    2 days ago











  • Your talk of "contradiction" wanders into the nonsensical as objects are quite capable of action, not that that's the case here since the passive voice is what's being used. Nevertheless, all verb subjects are not animate, far from it. I can't help but think that you went a little harebrained, that you started thinking in circles so much that you lost the plot and started thinking and then saying things that obviously aren't true. To be clear, there is nothing unusual about this construction in English. I speak four languages, and it exists in all of them.

    – Benjamin Harman
    2 days ago














0












0








0








I'm not a native English speaker and I see a sort of striking contradiction in the use of the expression in the passive voice





something can/can not be + past participle





e.g





the problem can not be solved





or





I can't be killed





or





the door can be opened





I know what the English native speakers want to say with this expresion but I see it weird to attribute "can" to an object ; then "can" and the passive voice are contradictory - isn't it like saying :





the door can undergo to be opened





Can is bound to all what relates to ability,action...while the passive voice is bound to the passivity,non action...thus the expression is like





the door is active to be passive





1)"can" and "undergo" does not go together !



2)It's human that can,not objects (such as "doors") or abstract things (such as "problems")



I know ,maybe, I have not well explained my idea - but is this a legacy from an old language or just an habit that became a rule ?










share|improve this question









New contributor




jihed gasmi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












I'm not a native English speaker and I see a sort of striking contradiction in the use of the expression in the passive voice





something can/can not be + past participle





e.g





the problem can not be solved





or





I can't be killed





or





the door can be opened





I know what the English native speakers want to say with this expresion but I see it weird to attribute "can" to an object ; then "can" and the passive voice are contradictory - isn't it like saying :





the door can undergo to be opened





Can is bound to all what relates to ability,action...while the passive voice is bound to the passivity,non action...thus the expression is like





the door is active to be passive





1)"can" and "undergo" does not go together !



2)It's human that can,not objects (such as "doors") or abstract things (such as "problems")



I know ,maybe, I have not well explained my idea - but is this a legacy from an old language or just an habit that became a rule ?







passive-voice contradiction






share|improve this question









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jihed gasmi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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share|improve this question









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edited yesterday







jihed gasmi













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asked Mar 29 at 22:01









jihed gasmijihed gasmi

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jihed gasmi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Check out our Code of Conduct.













  • "The door can undergo being opened" is a grammatical sentence. "Can" and "undergo" go fine together. All that makes that example wrong is you using the infinitive "to be" rather than the gerund "being" since the gerund phrase "being opened" is the object of the verb "undergo."

    – Benjamin Harman
    2 days ago











  • By the way, I myself didn't answer this question because @Centaurus more or less gave the answer I would've given. All I might've added is that "can" is being used as a helping verb like "shall" or "will" and that the verb "be" is the main verb and is what casts it into the passive voice.

    – Benjamin Harman
    2 days ago











  • Your talk of "contradiction" wanders into the nonsensical as objects are quite capable of action, not that that's the case here since the passive voice is what's being used. Nevertheless, all verb subjects are not animate, far from it. I can't help but think that you went a little harebrained, that you started thinking in circles so much that you lost the plot and started thinking and then saying things that obviously aren't true. To be clear, there is nothing unusual about this construction in English. I speak four languages, and it exists in all of them.

    – Benjamin Harman
    2 days ago



















  • "The door can undergo being opened" is a grammatical sentence. "Can" and "undergo" go fine together. All that makes that example wrong is you using the infinitive "to be" rather than the gerund "being" since the gerund phrase "being opened" is the object of the verb "undergo."

    – Benjamin Harman
    2 days ago











  • By the way, I myself didn't answer this question because @Centaurus more or less gave the answer I would've given. All I might've added is that "can" is being used as a helping verb like "shall" or "will" and that the verb "be" is the main verb and is what casts it into the passive voice.

    – Benjamin Harman
    2 days ago











  • Your talk of "contradiction" wanders into the nonsensical as objects are quite capable of action, not that that's the case here since the passive voice is what's being used. Nevertheless, all verb subjects are not animate, far from it. I can't help but think that you went a little harebrained, that you started thinking in circles so much that you lost the plot and started thinking and then saying things that obviously aren't true. To be clear, there is nothing unusual about this construction in English. I speak four languages, and it exists in all of them.

    – Benjamin Harman
    2 days ago

















"The door can undergo being opened" is a grammatical sentence. "Can" and "undergo" go fine together. All that makes that example wrong is you using the infinitive "to be" rather than the gerund "being" since the gerund phrase "being opened" is the object of the verb "undergo."

– Benjamin Harman
2 days ago





"The door can undergo being opened" is a grammatical sentence. "Can" and "undergo" go fine together. All that makes that example wrong is you using the infinitive "to be" rather than the gerund "being" since the gerund phrase "being opened" is the object of the verb "undergo."

– Benjamin Harman
2 days ago













By the way, I myself didn't answer this question because @Centaurus more or less gave the answer I would've given. All I might've added is that "can" is being used as a helping verb like "shall" or "will" and that the verb "be" is the main verb and is what casts it into the passive voice.

– Benjamin Harman
2 days ago





By the way, I myself didn't answer this question because @Centaurus more or less gave the answer I would've given. All I might've added is that "can" is being used as a helping verb like "shall" or "will" and that the verb "be" is the main verb and is what casts it into the passive voice.

– Benjamin Harman
2 days ago













Your talk of "contradiction" wanders into the nonsensical as objects are quite capable of action, not that that's the case here since the passive voice is what's being used. Nevertheless, all verb subjects are not animate, far from it. I can't help but think that you went a little harebrained, that you started thinking in circles so much that you lost the plot and started thinking and then saying things that obviously aren't true. To be clear, there is nothing unusual about this construction in English. I speak four languages, and it exists in all of them.

– Benjamin Harman
2 days ago





Your talk of "contradiction" wanders into the nonsensical as objects are quite capable of action, not that that's the case here since the passive voice is what's being used. Nevertheless, all verb subjects are not animate, far from it. I can't help but think that you went a little harebrained, that you started thinking in circles so much that you lost the plot and started thinking and then saying things that obviously aren't true. To be clear, there is nothing unusual about this construction in English. I speak four languages, and it exists in all of them.

– Benjamin Harman
2 days ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















3














There is no mystery.
In a passive sentence the subject becomes the agent, which is often omitted.




  • The problem can't be solved. (by anyone here) = No one here can solve the problem.

  • The door can't be opened (by us) = We can't open the door.



The agent is the person or thing that performs the action and is the subject of the active sentence. In most passive sentences, the agent is not mentioned. If it is mentioned, however, it is usually preceded by the preposition by.



Grammaring







share|improve this answer

































    1














    "Can" is potentially ambiguous between a permission sense and a possibility sense. "This door can be opened" in the permission sense is "Someone (unspecified) has permission (for that person(s)) to open the door" but in the possibility sense means "It is possible (for someone/thing) to open the door."



    In the possibility sense, there is no change of sense when the clause with "open" is passivized: "It is possible for the door to be opened (by someone/thing), which can be expressed using "can": "The door can be opened (by someone/thing)."



    In the permission sense, however, passivizing makes for a difficulty. "Someone (unspecified) has permission for the door to be opened (by that person(s))" is not entirely coherent, and it cannot be simplified and rephrased with "can", "The door can be opened", because it implies that "the door" is receiving permission. Doors are not people, so they can't be given permission.






    share|improve this answer































      0














      That is an interesting observation you are making. I think you are trying to say that the actual subject of the sentence doesn't appear to be the logical subject, and there is no logical subject in fact. I.e., "The problem cannot be solved" can be paraphrased as "It is not possible for the problem to be solved."



      A similar phenomenon in English is with the word seem. E.g., "Thomas seems to be angry." is like saying "It seems that Thomas is angry." This is called "raising" in Linguistics literature.






      share|improve this answer































        0














        In passive voice the subject is acted upon by whatsoever in this world. That is to say the receiver of action is made to usurp the subject position. The way we use BE in passive voice is rather, to be true, structured— one of formation of conjugation; it would be wrong to seek a meaning of the use of BE. You should also mark " CAN" does not take an object; it " fine-tunes " the " mood" of the following active verb that takes the object.



        Now, YOU CAN SOLVE THE PROBLEM.






        share|improve this answer
























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          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes








          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          3














          There is no mystery.
          In a passive sentence the subject becomes the agent, which is often omitted.




          • The problem can't be solved. (by anyone here) = No one here can solve the problem.

          • The door can't be opened (by us) = We can't open the door.



          The agent is the person or thing that performs the action and is the subject of the active sentence. In most passive sentences, the agent is not mentioned. If it is mentioned, however, it is usually preceded by the preposition by.



          Grammaring







          share|improve this answer






























            3














            There is no mystery.
            In a passive sentence the subject becomes the agent, which is often omitted.




            • The problem can't be solved. (by anyone here) = No one here can solve the problem.

            • The door can't be opened (by us) = We can't open the door.



            The agent is the person or thing that performs the action and is the subject of the active sentence. In most passive sentences, the agent is not mentioned. If it is mentioned, however, it is usually preceded by the preposition by.



            Grammaring







            share|improve this answer




























              3












              3








              3







              There is no mystery.
              In a passive sentence the subject becomes the agent, which is often omitted.




              • The problem can't be solved. (by anyone here) = No one here can solve the problem.

              • The door can't be opened (by us) = We can't open the door.



              The agent is the person or thing that performs the action and is the subject of the active sentence. In most passive sentences, the agent is not mentioned. If it is mentioned, however, it is usually preceded by the preposition by.



              Grammaring







              share|improve this answer















              There is no mystery.
              In a passive sentence the subject becomes the agent, which is often omitted.




              • The problem can't be solved. (by anyone here) = No one here can solve the problem.

              • The door can't be opened (by us) = We can't open the door.



              The agent is the person or thing that performs the action and is the subject of the active sentence. In most passive sentences, the agent is not mentioned. If it is mentioned, however, it is usually preceded by the preposition by.



              Grammaring








              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Mar 30 at 1:51

























              answered Mar 30 at 1:46









              CentaurusCentaurus

              38.7k31125247




              38.7k31125247

























                  1














                  "Can" is potentially ambiguous between a permission sense and a possibility sense. "This door can be opened" in the permission sense is "Someone (unspecified) has permission (for that person(s)) to open the door" but in the possibility sense means "It is possible (for someone/thing) to open the door."



                  In the possibility sense, there is no change of sense when the clause with "open" is passivized: "It is possible for the door to be opened (by someone/thing), which can be expressed using "can": "The door can be opened (by someone/thing)."



                  In the permission sense, however, passivizing makes for a difficulty. "Someone (unspecified) has permission for the door to be opened (by that person(s))" is not entirely coherent, and it cannot be simplified and rephrased with "can", "The door can be opened", because it implies that "the door" is receiving permission. Doors are not people, so they can't be given permission.






                  share|improve this answer




























                    1














                    "Can" is potentially ambiguous between a permission sense and a possibility sense. "This door can be opened" in the permission sense is "Someone (unspecified) has permission (for that person(s)) to open the door" but in the possibility sense means "It is possible (for someone/thing) to open the door."



                    In the possibility sense, there is no change of sense when the clause with "open" is passivized: "It is possible for the door to be opened (by someone/thing), which can be expressed using "can": "The door can be opened (by someone/thing)."



                    In the permission sense, however, passivizing makes for a difficulty. "Someone (unspecified) has permission for the door to be opened (by that person(s))" is not entirely coherent, and it cannot be simplified and rephrased with "can", "The door can be opened", because it implies that "the door" is receiving permission. Doors are not people, so they can't be given permission.






                    share|improve this answer


























                      1












                      1








                      1







                      "Can" is potentially ambiguous between a permission sense and a possibility sense. "This door can be opened" in the permission sense is "Someone (unspecified) has permission (for that person(s)) to open the door" but in the possibility sense means "It is possible (for someone/thing) to open the door."



                      In the possibility sense, there is no change of sense when the clause with "open" is passivized: "It is possible for the door to be opened (by someone/thing), which can be expressed using "can": "The door can be opened (by someone/thing)."



                      In the permission sense, however, passivizing makes for a difficulty. "Someone (unspecified) has permission for the door to be opened (by that person(s))" is not entirely coherent, and it cannot be simplified and rephrased with "can", "The door can be opened", because it implies that "the door" is receiving permission. Doors are not people, so they can't be given permission.






                      share|improve this answer













                      "Can" is potentially ambiguous between a permission sense and a possibility sense. "This door can be opened" in the permission sense is "Someone (unspecified) has permission (for that person(s)) to open the door" but in the possibility sense means "It is possible (for someone/thing) to open the door."



                      In the possibility sense, there is no change of sense when the clause with "open" is passivized: "It is possible for the door to be opened (by someone/thing), which can be expressed using "can": "The door can be opened (by someone/thing)."



                      In the permission sense, however, passivizing makes for a difficulty. "Someone (unspecified) has permission for the door to be opened (by that person(s))" is not entirely coherent, and it cannot be simplified and rephrased with "can", "The door can be opened", because it implies that "the door" is receiving permission. Doors are not people, so they can't be given permission.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered Mar 30 at 0:02









                      Greg LeeGreg Lee

                      14.9k2933




                      14.9k2933























                          0














                          That is an interesting observation you are making. I think you are trying to say that the actual subject of the sentence doesn't appear to be the logical subject, and there is no logical subject in fact. I.e., "The problem cannot be solved" can be paraphrased as "It is not possible for the problem to be solved."



                          A similar phenomenon in English is with the word seem. E.g., "Thomas seems to be angry." is like saying "It seems that Thomas is angry." This is called "raising" in Linguistics literature.






                          share|improve this answer




























                            0














                            That is an interesting observation you are making. I think you are trying to say that the actual subject of the sentence doesn't appear to be the logical subject, and there is no logical subject in fact. I.e., "The problem cannot be solved" can be paraphrased as "It is not possible for the problem to be solved."



                            A similar phenomenon in English is with the word seem. E.g., "Thomas seems to be angry." is like saying "It seems that Thomas is angry." This is called "raising" in Linguistics literature.






                            share|improve this answer


























                              0












                              0








                              0







                              That is an interesting observation you are making. I think you are trying to say that the actual subject of the sentence doesn't appear to be the logical subject, and there is no logical subject in fact. I.e., "The problem cannot be solved" can be paraphrased as "It is not possible for the problem to be solved."



                              A similar phenomenon in English is with the word seem. E.g., "Thomas seems to be angry." is like saying "It seems that Thomas is angry." This is called "raising" in Linguistics literature.






                              share|improve this answer













                              That is an interesting observation you are making. I think you are trying to say that the actual subject of the sentence doesn't appear to be the logical subject, and there is no logical subject in fact. I.e., "The problem cannot be solved" can be paraphrased as "It is not possible for the problem to be solved."



                              A similar phenomenon in English is with the word seem. E.g., "Thomas seems to be angry." is like saying "It seems that Thomas is angry." This is called "raising" in Linguistics literature.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered Mar 29 at 22:47









                              jlovegrenjlovegren

                              12.2k12145




                              12.2k12145























                                  0














                                  In passive voice the subject is acted upon by whatsoever in this world. That is to say the receiver of action is made to usurp the subject position. The way we use BE in passive voice is rather, to be true, structured— one of formation of conjugation; it would be wrong to seek a meaning of the use of BE. You should also mark " CAN" does not take an object; it " fine-tunes " the " mood" of the following active verb that takes the object.



                                  Now, YOU CAN SOLVE THE PROBLEM.






                                  share|improve this answer




























                                    0














                                    In passive voice the subject is acted upon by whatsoever in this world. That is to say the receiver of action is made to usurp the subject position. The way we use BE in passive voice is rather, to be true, structured— one of formation of conjugation; it would be wrong to seek a meaning of the use of BE. You should also mark " CAN" does not take an object; it " fine-tunes " the " mood" of the following active verb that takes the object.



                                    Now, YOU CAN SOLVE THE PROBLEM.






                                    share|improve this answer


























                                      0












                                      0








                                      0







                                      In passive voice the subject is acted upon by whatsoever in this world. That is to say the receiver of action is made to usurp the subject position. The way we use BE in passive voice is rather, to be true, structured— one of formation of conjugation; it would be wrong to seek a meaning of the use of BE. You should also mark " CAN" does not take an object; it " fine-tunes " the " mood" of the following active verb that takes the object.



                                      Now, YOU CAN SOLVE THE PROBLEM.






                                      share|improve this answer













                                      In passive voice the subject is acted upon by whatsoever in this world. That is to say the receiver of action is made to usurp the subject position. The way we use BE in passive voice is rather, to be true, structured— one of formation of conjugation; it would be wrong to seek a meaning of the use of BE. You should also mark " CAN" does not take an object; it " fine-tunes " the " mood" of the following active verb that takes the object.



                                      Now, YOU CAN SOLVE THE PROBLEM.







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered Mar 30 at 1:45









                                      Barid Baran AcharyaBarid Baran Acharya

                                      1,988613




                                      1,988613






















                                          jihed gasmi is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










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