What's the actual origin of the word “Shih Tzu”?
What's the actual origin of the word "Shih Tzu"?
Edit: It's agreeable that it comes from a Wade-Giles transcription of the Mandarin Chinese word for "lion dog" (獅子狗 shih1-tzu0-kou3, from 獅子 "lion" + 狗 "dog"). This is part is indubitable. There's no doubt about it. Period.
Apart from that part above, there are a couple of problems.
The English Wikipedia article for Shih Tzu and some of its sources (some may have been removed) claim that the Shih Tzu is so named due to its resemblance to the lion. The Wiktionary entry for Shih Tzu even goes so far to claim that it resembles those Chinese guardian lion statue in the imperial palace or in front of feudal officials' residences.
However, the breed's name in Chinese actually translates "Xi Shi dog", with Xi Shi being one of the four most beautiful women in Chinese history. Through the Chinese Wikipedia article for the breed and Google Translate, I've learned that this breed may have been called "lion dog" and renamed for "marketing purposes", although this claim has no sources to back it up. Meanwhile, the name "lion dog", in proper Chinese, refers to the Pekingese, a completely different breed that, if you ask me, better resembles lion statues.
Edit: So what is the concrete etymology of the English word Shih Tzu? Was it really the original name of this breed? Or is it used in English etymologically erroneously for some reason? Was there a name change in Chinese which led to the etymological discrepancy between the English name of the breed and its Chinese name? Or was it just that the English-speaking world somehow confused two different dog breeds?
Edit: I'd like to stress that this is a question on etymology. And the etymology of English loanwords obviously has to concern with the source languages or the original circumstance around the time English borrowed from that source. I'm aware that there may not be any etymologists here who has a bit understanding of the original Chinese words ("lion", "lion dog" or the like), but unfortunately there is no "etymology stackexchange" for me to rely on.
etymology loan-words
asked 13 hours ago
Vun-Hugh VawVun-Hugh Vaw
2,35412350
|
show 2 more comments
What's the actual origin of the word "Shih Tzu"?
Edit: It's agreeable that it comes from a Wade-Giles transcription of the Mandarin Chinese word for "lion dog" (獅子狗 shih1-tzu0-kou3, from 獅子 "lion" + 狗 "dog"). This is part is indubitable. There's no doubt about it. Period.
Apart from that part above, there are a couple of problems.
The English Wikipedia article for Shih Tzu and some of its sources (some may have been removed) claim that the Shih Tzu is so named due to its resemblance to the lion. The Wiktionary entry for Shih Tzu even goes so far to claim that it resembles those Chinese guardian lion statue in the imperial palace or in front of feudal officials' residences.
However, the breed's name in Chinese actually translates "Xi Shi dog", with Xi Shi being one of the four most beautiful women in Chinese history. Through the Chinese Wikipedia article for the breed and Google Translate, I've learned that this breed may have been called "lion dog" and renamed for "marketing purposes", although this claim has no sources to back it up. Meanwhile, the name "lion dog", in proper Chinese, refers to the Pekingese, a completely different breed that, if you ask me, better resembles lion statues.
Edit: So what is the concrete etymology of the English word Shih Tzu? Was it really the original name of this breed? Or is it used in English etymologically erroneously for some reason? Was there a name change in Chinese which led to the etymological discrepancy between the English name of the breed and its Chinese name? Or was it just that the English-speaking world somehow confused two different dog breeds?
Edit: I'd like to stress that this is a question on etymology. And the etymology of English loanwords obviously has to concern with the source languages or the original circumstance around the time English borrowed from that source. I'm aware that there may not be any etymologists here who has a bit understanding of the original Chinese words ("lion", "lion dog" or the like), but unfortunately there is no "etymology stackexchange" for me to rely on.
etymology loan-words
asked 13 hours ago
Vun-Hugh VawVun-Hugh Vaw
2,35412350
Wikipedia says The name comes from the Chinese language word for "lion" because this kind of dog was bred to resemble "the lion, as depicted in traditional oriental art". (The Pekingese breed is also called "lion dog" in Chinese.) "Shih Tzu" is the Wade-Giles romanization of the Chinese characters 獅子, meaning lion; this romanization scheme was in use when the breed was first introduced in America. Is that not good enough for you? Anyway, the question seems to be more about Chinese than "Use of English".
– FumbleFingers
12 hours ago
English Wikipedia also says that the name was changed in Chinese, probably in part to avoid confusion with the Pekingese. The new name is pronounced quite similarly to the old name, which is consistent with this story.
– Peter Shor
12 hours ago
I am asking, not making a statement, but is it a possibility that "Shih Tzu" is the correct pronunciation in a Chinese language other than Han (mandarin)? After all "Peking" is, I understand, the Cantonese for "Beijing", both names mean "Northern Capital" and the words in both languages are represented by the same characters.
– BoldBen
9 hours ago
@BoldBen: No, I believe "Peking" is roughly the way they pronounced Beijing in that city 250 years ago. The P/B difference comes from the fact that the Chinese consonants don't actually match the English consonants, the k/j variance comes from a pronunciation change in Chinese, and the difference in the vowels comes from the fact that the spelling of vowels in English is just totally messed up.
– Peter Shor
7 hours ago
@FumbleFingers It's not good enough because it's the obvious part that I have stated in my question, not the problematic part. Of course, since it's a word of Chinese origin, it is about Chinese and why it was chosen to be used in this way in English, or why there is such a discrepancy/conflict between the source language and English. As for "Use of English", I'm not sure what you mean by that, because I'm not asking how to use the word (nothing debatable about that), I'm asking about its etymology and I used the "etymology" tag for that, not some "usage" tag.
– Vun-Hugh Vaw
4 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
What's the actual origin of the word "Shih Tzu"?
Edit: It's agreeable that it comes from a Wade-Giles transcription of the Mandarin Chinese word for "lion dog" (獅子狗 shih1-tzu0-kou3, from 獅子 "lion" + 狗 "dog"). This is part is indubitable. There's no doubt about it. Period.
Apart from that part above, there are a couple of problems.
The English Wikipedia article for Shih Tzu and some of its sources (some may have been removed) claim that the Shih Tzu is so named due to its resemblance to the lion. The Wiktionary entry for Shih Tzu even goes so far to claim that it resembles those Chinese guardian lion statue in the imperial palace or in front of feudal officials' residences.
However, the breed's name in Chinese actually translates "Xi Shi dog", with Xi Shi being one of the four most beautiful women in Chinese history. Through the Chinese Wikipedia article for the breed and Google Translate, I've learned that this breed may have been called "lion dog" and renamed for "marketing purposes", although this claim has no sources to back it up. Meanwhile, the name "lion dog", in proper Chinese, refers to the Pekingese, a completely different breed that, if you ask me, better resembles lion statues.
Edit: So what is the concrete etymology of the English word Shih Tzu? Was it really the original name of this breed? Or is it used in English etymologically erroneously for some reason? Was there a name change in Chinese which led to the etymological discrepancy between the English name of the breed and its Chinese name? Or was it just that the English-speaking world somehow confused two different dog breeds?
Edit: I'd like to stress that this is a question on etymology. And the etymology of English loanwords obviously has to concern with the source languages or the original circumstance around the time English borrowed from that source. I'm aware that there may not be any etymologists here who has a bit understanding of the original Chinese words ("lion", "lion dog" or the like), but unfortunately there is no "etymology stackexchange" for me to rely on.
etymology loan-words
asked 13 hours ago
Vun-Hugh VawVun-Hugh Vaw
2,35412350
What's the actual origin of the word "Shih Tzu"?
Edit: It's agreeable that it comes from a Wade-Giles transcription of the Mandarin Chinese word for "lion dog" (獅子狗 shih1-tzu0-kou3, from 獅子 "lion" + 狗 "dog"). This is part is indubitable. There's no doubt about it. Period.
Apart from that part above, there are a couple of problems.
The English Wikipedia article for Shih Tzu and some of its sources (some may have been removed) claim that the Shih Tzu is so named due to its resemblance to the lion. The Wiktionary entry for Shih Tzu even goes so far to claim that it resembles those Chinese guardian lion statue in the imperial palace or in front of feudal officials' residences.
However, the breed's name in Chinese actually translates "Xi Shi dog", with Xi Shi being one of the four most beautiful women in Chinese history. Through the Chinese Wikipedia article for the breed and Google Translate, I've learned that this breed may have been called "lion dog" and renamed for "marketing purposes", although this claim has no sources to back it up. Meanwhile, the name "lion dog", in proper Chinese, refers to the Pekingese, a completely different breed that, if you ask me, better resembles lion statues.
Edit: So what is the concrete etymology of the English word Shih Tzu? Was it really the original name of this breed? Or is it used in English etymologically erroneously for some reason? Was there a name change in Chinese which led to the etymological discrepancy between the English name of the breed and its Chinese name? Or was it just that the English-speaking world somehow confused two different dog breeds?
Edit: I'd like to stress that this is a question on etymology. And the etymology of English loanwords obviously has to concern with the source languages or the original circumstance around the time English borrowed from that source. I'm aware that there may not be any etymologists here who has a bit understanding of the original Chinese words ("lion", "lion dog" or the like), but unfortunately there is no "etymology stackexchange" for me to rely on.
etymology loan-words
etymology loan-words
asked 13 hours ago
Vun-Hugh VawVun-Hugh Vaw
2,35412350
asked 13 hours ago
Vun-Hugh VawVun-Hugh Vaw
2,35412350
edited 2 hours ago
Vun-Hugh Vaw
asked 13 hours ago
Vun-Hugh VawVun-Hugh Vaw
2,35412350
asked 13 hours ago
Vun-Hugh VawVun-Hugh Vaw
2,35412350
asked 13 hours ago
Vun-Hugh VawVun-Hugh Vaw
2,35412350
2,35412350
Wikipedia says The name comes from the Chinese language word for "lion" because this kind of dog was bred to resemble "the lion, as depicted in traditional oriental art". (The Pekingese breed is also called "lion dog" in Chinese.) "Shih Tzu" is the Wade-Giles romanization of the Chinese characters 獅子, meaning lion; this romanization scheme was in use when the breed was first introduced in America. Is that not good enough for you? Anyway, the question seems to be more about Chinese than "Use of English".
– FumbleFingers
12 hours ago
English Wikipedia also says that the name was changed in Chinese, probably in part to avoid confusion with the Pekingese. The new name is pronounced quite similarly to the old name, which is consistent with this story.
– Peter Shor
12 hours ago
I am asking, not making a statement, but is it a possibility that "Shih Tzu" is the correct pronunciation in a Chinese language other than Han (mandarin)? After all "Peking" is, I understand, the Cantonese for "Beijing", both names mean "Northern Capital" and the words in both languages are represented by the same characters.
– BoldBen
9 hours ago
@BoldBen: No, I believe "Peking" is roughly the way they pronounced Beijing in that city 250 years ago. The P/B difference comes from the fact that the Chinese consonants don't actually match the English consonants, the k/j variance comes from a pronunciation change in Chinese, and the difference in the vowels comes from the fact that the spelling of vowels in English is just totally messed up.
– Peter Shor
7 hours ago
@FumbleFingers It's not good enough because it's the obvious part that I have stated in my question, not the problematic part. Of course, since it's a word of Chinese origin, it is about Chinese and why it was chosen to be used in this way in English, or why there is such a discrepancy/conflict between the source language and English. As for "Use of English", I'm not sure what you mean by that, because I'm not asking how to use the word (nothing debatable about that), I'm asking about its etymology and I used the "etymology" tag for that, not some "usage" tag.
– Vun-Hugh Vaw
4 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
Wikipedia says The name comes from the Chinese language word for "lion" because this kind of dog was bred to resemble "the lion, as depicted in traditional oriental art". (The Pekingese breed is also called "lion dog" in Chinese.) "Shih Tzu" is the Wade-Giles romanization of the Chinese characters 獅子, meaning lion; this romanization scheme was in use when the breed was first introduced in America. Is that not good enough for you? Anyway, the question seems to be more about Chinese than "Use of English".
– FumbleFingers
12 hours ago
English Wikipedia also says that the name was changed in Chinese, probably in part to avoid confusion with the Pekingese. The new name is pronounced quite similarly to the old name, which is consistent with this story.
– Peter Shor
12 hours ago
I am asking, not making a statement, but is it a possibility that "Shih Tzu" is the correct pronunciation in a Chinese language other than Han (mandarin)? After all "Peking" is, I understand, the Cantonese for "Beijing", both names mean "Northern Capital" and the words in both languages are represented by the same characters.
– BoldBen
9 hours ago
@BoldBen: No, I believe "Peking" is roughly the way they pronounced Beijing in that city 250 years ago. The P/B difference comes from the fact that the Chinese consonants don't actually match the English consonants, the k/j variance comes from a pronunciation change in Chinese, and the difference in the vowels comes from the fact that the spelling of vowels in English is just totally messed up.
– Peter Shor
7 hours ago
@FumbleFingers It's not good enough because it's the obvious part that I have stated in my question, not the problematic part. Of course, since it's a word of Chinese origin, it is about Chinese and why it was chosen to be used in this way in English, or why there is such a discrepancy/conflict between the source language and English. As for "Use of English", I'm not sure what you mean by that, because I'm not asking how to use the word (nothing debatable about that), I'm asking about its etymology and I used the "etymology" tag for that, not some "usage" tag.
– Vun-Hugh Vaw
4 hours ago
Wikipedia says The name comes from the Chinese language word for "lion" because this kind of dog was bred to resemble "the lion, as depicted in traditional oriental art". (The Pekingese breed is also called "lion dog" in Chinese.) "Shih Tzu" is the Wade-Giles romanization of the Chinese characters 獅子, meaning lion; this romanization scheme was in use when the breed was first introduced in America. Is that not good enough for you? Anyway, the question seems to be more about Chinese than "Use of English".
– FumbleFingers
12 hours ago
Wikipedia says The name comes from the Chinese language word for "lion" because this kind of dog was bred to resemble "the lion, as depicted in traditional oriental art". (The Pekingese breed is also called "lion dog" in Chinese.) "Shih Tzu" is the Wade-Giles romanization of the Chinese characters 獅子, meaning lion; this romanization scheme was in use when the breed was first introduced in America. Is that not good enough for you? Anyway, the question seems to be more about Chinese than "Use of English".
– FumbleFingers
12 hours ago
English Wikipedia also says that the name was changed in Chinese, probably in part to avoid confusion with the Pekingese. The new name is pronounced quite similarly to the old name, which is consistent with this story.
– Peter Shor
12 hours ago
English Wikipedia also says that the name was changed in Chinese, probably in part to avoid confusion with the Pekingese. The new name is pronounced quite similarly to the old name, which is consistent with this story.
– Peter Shor
12 hours ago
I am asking, not making a statement, but is it a possibility that "Shih Tzu" is the correct pronunciation in a Chinese language other than Han (mandarin)? After all "Peking" is, I understand, the Cantonese for "Beijing", both names mean "Northern Capital" and the words in both languages are represented by the same characters.
– BoldBen
9 hours ago
I am asking, not making a statement, but is it a possibility that "Shih Tzu" is the correct pronunciation in a Chinese language other than Han (mandarin)? After all "Peking" is, I understand, the Cantonese for "Beijing", both names mean "Northern Capital" and the words in both languages are represented by the same characters.
– BoldBen
9 hours ago
@BoldBen: No, I believe "Peking" is roughly the way they pronounced Beijing in that city 250 years ago. The P/B difference comes from the fact that the Chinese consonants don't actually match the English consonants, the k/j variance comes from a pronunciation change in Chinese, and the difference in the vowels comes from the fact that the spelling of vowels in English is just totally messed up.
– Peter Shor
7 hours ago
@BoldBen: No, I believe "Peking" is roughly the way they pronounced Beijing in that city 250 years ago. The P/B difference comes from the fact that the Chinese consonants don't actually match the English consonants, the k/j variance comes from a pronunciation change in Chinese, and the difference in the vowels comes from the fact that the spelling of vowels in English is just totally messed up.
– Peter Shor
7 hours ago
@FumbleFingers It's not good enough because it's the obvious part that I have stated in my question, not the problematic part. Of course, since it's a word of Chinese origin, it is about Chinese and why it was chosen to be used in this way in English, or why there is such a discrepancy/conflict between the source language and English. As for "Use of English", I'm not sure what you mean by that, because I'm not asking how to use the word (nothing debatable about that), I'm asking about its etymology and I used the "etymology" tag for that, not some "usage" tag.
– Vun-Hugh Vaw
4 hours ago
@FumbleFingers It's not good enough because it's the obvious part that I have stated in my question, not the problematic part. Of course, since it's a word of Chinese origin, it is about Chinese and why it was chosen to be used in this way in English, or why there is such a discrepancy/conflict between the source language and English. As for "Use of English", I'm not sure what you mean by that, because I'm not asking how to use the word (nothing debatable about that), I'm asking about its etymology and I used the "etymology" tag for that, not some "usage" tag.
– Vun-Hugh Vaw
4 hours ago
|
show 2 more comments
0
active
oldest
votes
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "97"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fenglish.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f489701%2fwhats-the-actual-origin-of-the-word-shih-tzu%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
0
active
oldest
votes
0
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Thanks for contributing an answer to English Language & Usage Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fenglish.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f489701%2fwhats-the-actual-origin-of-the-word-shih-tzu%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Wikipedia says The name comes from the Chinese language word for "lion" because this kind of dog was bred to resemble "the lion, as depicted in traditional oriental art". (The Pekingese breed is also called "lion dog" in Chinese.) "Shih Tzu" is the Wade-Giles romanization of the Chinese characters 獅子, meaning lion; this romanization scheme was in use when the breed was first introduced in America. Is that not good enough for you? Anyway, the question seems to be more about Chinese than "Use of English".
– FumbleFingers
12 hours ago
English Wikipedia also says that the name was changed in Chinese, probably in part to avoid confusion with the Pekingese. The new name is pronounced quite similarly to the old name, which is consistent with this story.
– Peter Shor
12 hours ago
I am asking, not making a statement, but is it a possibility that "Shih Tzu" is the correct pronunciation in a Chinese language other than Han (mandarin)? After all "Peking" is, I understand, the Cantonese for "Beijing", both names mean "Northern Capital" and the words in both languages are represented by the same characters.
– BoldBen
9 hours ago
@BoldBen: No, I believe "Peking" is roughly the way they pronounced Beijing in that city 250 years ago. The P/B difference comes from the fact that the Chinese consonants don't actually match the English consonants, the k/j variance comes from a pronunciation change in Chinese, and the difference in the vowels comes from the fact that the spelling of vowels in English is just totally messed up.
– Peter Shor
7 hours ago
@FumbleFingers It's not good enough because it's the obvious part that I have stated in my question, not the problematic part. Of course, since it's a word of Chinese origin, it is about Chinese and why it was chosen to be used in this way in English, or why there is such a discrepancy/conflict between the source language and English. As for "Use of English", I'm not sure what you mean by that, because I'm not asking how to use the word (nothing debatable about that), I'm asking about its etymology and I used the "etymology" tag for that, not some "usage" tag.
– Vun-Hugh Vaw
4 hours ago