“Whether or not” vs. “whether”












85


















    • This will depend on whether he's suitable for the job.

    • This will depend on whether he's suitable for the job or not.

    • This will depend on whether or not he's suitable for the job.



    • It is still not defined whether we're following that approach.

    • It is still not defined whether we're following that approach or not.

    • It is still not defined whether or not we're following that approach.





"Or not" doesn't really seem to be needed to complement "whether". Why do people use it then? Is it redundancy and nothing more? Or is it for emphasis? Or are there cases when "or not" is required for the sentence to be grammatical?










share|improve this question




















  • 2





    As Henry Higgins observed in Pygmallion, the best grammarians are often those who learned English in school as immigrants. My parents, who were first-generation Americans in the early 20th century, learned English grammar in NYC public schools meticulously. They insisted "whether or not" is proper usage, period. Over time, language evolves or erodes and the rules change, which really means there are no authorities. I believe many changes are driven by relatively poorly educated TV personalities misusing words, which then become common usage. Someone once said, "C students rule the world."

    – user52936
    Sep 27 '13 at 13:03













  • I think also that the phrase "or not" allows a sentence to end on an iamb. Might be useful if a writer cares particularly about his or her cadence.

    – ktm5124
    Mar 3 '17 at 8:41
















85


















    • This will depend on whether he's suitable for the job.

    • This will depend on whether he's suitable for the job or not.

    • This will depend on whether or not he's suitable for the job.



    • It is still not defined whether we're following that approach.

    • It is still not defined whether we're following that approach or not.

    • It is still not defined whether or not we're following that approach.





"Or not" doesn't really seem to be needed to complement "whether". Why do people use it then? Is it redundancy and nothing more? Or is it for emphasis? Or are there cases when "or not" is required for the sentence to be grammatical?










share|improve this question




















  • 2





    As Henry Higgins observed in Pygmallion, the best grammarians are often those who learned English in school as immigrants. My parents, who were first-generation Americans in the early 20th century, learned English grammar in NYC public schools meticulously. They insisted "whether or not" is proper usage, period. Over time, language evolves or erodes and the rules change, which really means there are no authorities. I believe many changes are driven by relatively poorly educated TV personalities misusing words, which then become common usage. Someone once said, "C students rule the world."

    – user52936
    Sep 27 '13 at 13:03













  • I think also that the phrase "or not" allows a sentence to end on an iamb. Might be useful if a writer cares particularly about his or her cadence.

    – ktm5124
    Mar 3 '17 at 8:41














85












85








85


31









    • This will depend on whether he's suitable for the job.

    • This will depend on whether he's suitable for the job or not.

    • This will depend on whether or not he's suitable for the job.



    • It is still not defined whether we're following that approach.

    • It is still not defined whether we're following that approach or not.

    • It is still not defined whether or not we're following that approach.





"Or not" doesn't really seem to be needed to complement "whether". Why do people use it then? Is it redundancy and nothing more? Or is it for emphasis? Or are there cases when "or not" is required for the sentence to be grammatical?










share|improve this question



















    • This will depend on whether he's suitable for the job.

    • This will depend on whether he's suitable for the job or not.

    • This will depend on whether or not he's suitable for the job.



    • It is still not defined whether we're following that approach.

    • It is still not defined whether we're following that approach or not.

    • It is still not defined whether or not we're following that approach.





"Or not" doesn't really seem to be needed to complement "whether". Why do people use it then? Is it redundancy and nothing more? Or is it for emphasis? Or are there cases when "or not" is required for the sentence to be grammatical?







grammaticality conjunctions negation emphasis






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share|improve this question













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share|improve this question








edited Dec 21 '12 at 11:35









RegDwigнt

83.3k31281381




83.3k31281381










asked Sep 23 '10 at 15:46









b.rothb.roth

16.7k1877122




16.7k1877122








  • 2





    As Henry Higgins observed in Pygmallion, the best grammarians are often those who learned English in school as immigrants. My parents, who were first-generation Americans in the early 20th century, learned English grammar in NYC public schools meticulously. They insisted "whether or not" is proper usage, period. Over time, language evolves or erodes and the rules change, which really means there are no authorities. I believe many changes are driven by relatively poorly educated TV personalities misusing words, which then become common usage. Someone once said, "C students rule the world."

    – user52936
    Sep 27 '13 at 13:03













  • I think also that the phrase "or not" allows a sentence to end on an iamb. Might be useful if a writer cares particularly about his or her cadence.

    – ktm5124
    Mar 3 '17 at 8:41














  • 2





    As Henry Higgins observed in Pygmallion, the best grammarians are often those who learned English in school as immigrants. My parents, who were first-generation Americans in the early 20th century, learned English grammar in NYC public schools meticulously. They insisted "whether or not" is proper usage, period. Over time, language evolves or erodes and the rules change, which really means there are no authorities. I believe many changes are driven by relatively poorly educated TV personalities misusing words, which then become common usage. Someone once said, "C students rule the world."

    – user52936
    Sep 27 '13 at 13:03













  • I think also that the phrase "or not" allows a sentence to end on an iamb. Might be useful if a writer cares particularly about his or her cadence.

    – ktm5124
    Mar 3 '17 at 8:41








2




2





As Henry Higgins observed in Pygmallion, the best grammarians are often those who learned English in school as immigrants. My parents, who were first-generation Americans in the early 20th century, learned English grammar in NYC public schools meticulously. They insisted "whether or not" is proper usage, period. Over time, language evolves or erodes and the rules change, which really means there are no authorities. I believe many changes are driven by relatively poorly educated TV personalities misusing words, which then become common usage. Someone once said, "C students rule the world."

– user52936
Sep 27 '13 at 13:03







As Henry Higgins observed in Pygmallion, the best grammarians are often those who learned English in school as immigrants. My parents, who were first-generation Americans in the early 20th century, learned English grammar in NYC public schools meticulously. They insisted "whether or not" is proper usage, period. Over time, language evolves or erodes and the rules change, which really means there are no authorities. I believe many changes are driven by relatively poorly educated TV personalities misusing words, which then become common usage. Someone once said, "C students rule the world."

– user52936
Sep 27 '13 at 13:03















I think also that the phrase "or not" allows a sentence to end on an iamb. Might be useful if a writer cares particularly about his or her cadence.

– ktm5124
Mar 3 '17 at 8:41





I think also that the phrase "or not" allows a sentence to end on an iamb. Might be useful if a writer cares particularly about his or her cadence.

– ktm5124
Mar 3 '17 at 8:41










8 Answers
8






active

oldest

votes


















39














The addition of the "or not" is neither logically nor grammatically required. I think it's often used conversationally for emphasis. I definitely wouldn't use it in writing myself.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1





    The "If/*whether you decide to come, give me a call." example given in an answer to a strongly related question makes me question this pronouncement. I would hope some logical or grammatical rule would prevent the "Whether you decide to come, give me a call." option in such a case, even though I can't cite a specific rule myself.

    – John Tobler
    Sep 19 '11 at 22:36













  • Could you give me your thoughts on my answer? I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about it.

    – timothymh
    Jul 2 '12 at 2:34






  • 1





    @JohnT I think whether emphasizes a dichotomy in which one option is imminent, though the option may not be known. If emphasizes the conditional nature of the matter.

    – fredsbend
    Mar 3 '14 at 16:00






  • 3





    Do you disagree with the rule WBT gave, from Garner, that "whether or not" is required in sentences like "Whether he shows up or not, we're getting started tomorrow"? Surely we can't say "Whether he shows up, we're getting started tomorrow"?

    – sumelic
    Jan 11 '17 at 7:00






  • 1





    Hopefully @b.roth can come by and change the 'approved' answer. It should be WBT's or FumbleFingers's. This one is certainly incomplete, omitting the origin of the use in its binary meaning. It's certainly sometimes still necessary.

    – lly
    Jul 6 '17 at 15:06



















41














It's worth pointing out that, etymologically speaking, the roots of whether are which/either of two. It's inherently a "binary choice" word, so whereas "I don't know whether it be fish or fowl" is fine, "I don't know whether it be fish or fowl or good red herring" isn't really grammatical. Which is not to say people never use that extended form - but it does sometimes attract criticism.



With "unary choice" forms such as "I don't know whether I like it", the alternative ("I don't like it") can invariably be shortened to "or not" - or simply discarded completely, since it's implicit anyway.



Possibly some will say if only one choice is presented, you should use "if" rather than "whether", but skimming through written instances of "Tell me whether" suggests that most people have always been quite relaxed on that point.



TL;DR: "or not" is never required if the alternative is a simple negation of the stated proposition, but an "or" clause is required in, say, "You must choose whether to write novels or poems" (presupposing that writing, for example, software is not an option currently on offer).






share|improve this answer

































    9





    +50









    The New York Times' stylebook says or not is often redundant.

    It is ordinarily omitted when the clause functions as a noun, e.g. it is the object of a verb or preposition, or subject of the sentence.

    However, when a whether clause acts as an adverb, or not is needed.

    Check this NYT blog post for more details.




    Another test, courtesy of Garner’s Modern American Usage: “or not” is necessary when the phrase “whether or not” means “regardless of whether.”







    share|improve this answer































      5














      Similarly to tomothymh, I use "whether" alone unless I intend to convey "regardless of whather." In the latter case, I think "whether or not" is generally preferable to "regardless of whether."



      Thus:



      Whether I wear a coat depends on the temperature.



      But:



      I'm going to wear my new red coat whether or not it's cold.






      share|improve this answer































        1














        When whether or not is implicit, you may use "or not" for the style or to underline ; it's up to you.



        But if, "or not" is not implicit - for ex. in a choice with options, we don't use "or not" : "Whether the car will be black, red or white, I shall drive it."






        share|improve this answer































          0














          I'm surprised nobody mentioned this that I saw, so I'll post an answer.



          The word whether should be used by itself in the situations you mentioned above. The “or not” is a mistaken crossover from the correct usage of “whether or not” mentioned below. It is often used that way, but when writing it's best to avoid that unnecessary bit.



          The phrase whether or not is a condition, used in statements to show that something will or will not happen, regardless of certain other variables:




          I'm going to go on strike whether or not anyone joins me!




          This would be less correct, however, if used like this:




          I don't care whether or not anyone joins me, I'm going on strike!







          share|improve this answer



















          • 2





            I don't see any difference in meaning or grammaticality of your two examples.

            – Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
            Jul 2 '12 at 4:01






          • 1





            That's my point exactly—the meaning is exactly the same. However, if you try removing "or not" from each of those, only one makes sense!

            – timothymh
            Jul 2 '12 at 4:24











          • My argument is a Strunk & White kind of one.

            – timothymh
            Jul 2 '12 at 4:25






          • 3





            I don't agree that the addition of or not is a "mistaken crossover". Whether introduces two or more possibilities; adding or not is merely clarifying what one of the possibilities is, whether or not it's obvious. ;-)

            – Jez
            Jul 2 '12 at 10:12






          • 1





            To quote Rule 17 of The Elements of Style: "Omit needless words."

            – timothymh
            Jul 2 '12 at 17:47





















          0














          It depends. Quotes from Times’s stylebook (explained here):




          Often "or not" is redundant after whether, but not always. The
          phrase may ordinarily be omitted in these cases:



          • When the whether clause is the object of a verb: She wonders whether
          the teacher will attend. (The clause is the object of wonders.)



          • When the clause is the object of a preposition: The teacher will
          base his decision on whether the car has been repaired. (The clause is
          the object of on.)



          • When the clause is the subject of the sentence: Whether the car will
          be ready depends on the mechanic. (The clause is the subject of
          depends.)



          But when a whether clause modifies a verb, or not is needed: They will
          play tomorrow whether or not it rains. (The clause modifies play.)







          share|improve this answer































            -2














            Although perhaps implied in the answers above, I think it could be clarified a bit: Whether is binary. In a sentence where two options are offered, no 'or not' is required - in fact it would be quite cumbersome. However, if the option is to do or not to do, is or isn't, then the 'or not' is required.



            I don't know whether I should have the fish or the chicken.
            I don't know whether I should eat or not.






            share|improve this answer






















              protected by tchrist Jul 1 '14 at 1:09



              Thank you for your interest in this question.
              Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).



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              8 Answers
              8






              active

              oldest

              votes








              8 Answers
              8






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              39














              The addition of the "or not" is neither logically nor grammatically required. I think it's often used conversationally for emphasis. I definitely wouldn't use it in writing myself.






              share|improve this answer



















              • 1





                The "If/*whether you decide to come, give me a call." example given in an answer to a strongly related question makes me question this pronouncement. I would hope some logical or grammatical rule would prevent the "Whether you decide to come, give me a call." option in such a case, even though I can't cite a specific rule myself.

                – John Tobler
                Sep 19 '11 at 22:36













              • Could you give me your thoughts on my answer? I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about it.

                – timothymh
                Jul 2 '12 at 2:34






              • 1





                @JohnT I think whether emphasizes a dichotomy in which one option is imminent, though the option may not be known. If emphasizes the conditional nature of the matter.

                – fredsbend
                Mar 3 '14 at 16:00






              • 3





                Do you disagree with the rule WBT gave, from Garner, that "whether or not" is required in sentences like "Whether he shows up or not, we're getting started tomorrow"? Surely we can't say "Whether he shows up, we're getting started tomorrow"?

                – sumelic
                Jan 11 '17 at 7:00






              • 1





                Hopefully @b.roth can come by and change the 'approved' answer. It should be WBT's or FumbleFingers's. This one is certainly incomplete, omitting the origin of the use in its binary meaning. It's certainly sometimes still necessary.

                – lly
                Jul 6 '17 at 15:06
















              39














              The addition of the "or not" is neither logically nor grammatically required. I think it's often used conversationally for emphasis. I definitely wouldn't use it in writing myself.






              share|improve this answer



















              • 1





                The "If/*whether you decide to come, give me a call." example given in an answer to a strongly related question makes me question this pronouncement. I would hope some logical or grammatical rule would prevent the "Whether you decide to come, give me a call." option in such a case, even though I can't cite a specific rule myself.

                – John Tobler
                Sep 19 '11 at 22:36













              • Could you give me your thoughts on my answer? I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about it.

                – timothymh
                Jul 2 '12 at 2:34






              • 1





                @JohnT I think whether emphasizes a dichotomy in which one option is imminent, though the option may not be known. If emphasizes the conditional nature of the matter.

                – fredsbend
                Mar 3 '14 at 16:00






              • 3





                Do you disagree with the rule WBT gave, from Garner, that "whether or not" is required in sentences like "Whether he shows up or not, we're getting started tomorrow"? Surely we can't say "Whether he shows up, we're getting started tomorrow"?

                – sumelic
                Jan 11 '17 at 7:00






              • 1





                Hopefully @b.roth can come by and change the 'approved' answer. It should be WBT's or FumbleFingers's. This one is certainly incomplete, omitting the origin of the use in its binary meaning. It's certainly sometimes still necessary.

                – lly
                Jul 6 '17 at 15:06














              39












              39








              39







              The addition of the "or not" is neither logically nor grammatically required. I think it's often used conversationally for emphasis. I definitely wouldn't use it in writing myself.






              share|improve this answer













              The addition of the "or not" is neither logically nor grammatically required. I think it's often used conversationally for emphasis. I definitely wouldn't use it in writing myself.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered Sep 23 '10 at 15:52









              MaxNMaxN

              1,05085




              1,05085








              • 1





                The "If/*whether you decide to come, give me a call." example given in an answer to a strongly related question makes me question this pronouncement. I would hope some logical or grammatical rule would prevent the "Whether you decide to come, give me a call." option in such a case, even though I can't cite a specific rule myself.

                – John Tobler
                Sep 19 '11 at 22:36













              • Could you give me your thoughts on my answer? I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about it.

                – timothymh
                Jul 2 '12 at 2:34






              • 1





                @JohnT I think whether emphasizes a dichotomy in which one option is imminent, though the option may not be known. If emphasizes the conditional nature of the matter.

                – fredsbend
                Mar 3 '14 at 16:00






              • 3





                Do you disagree with the rule WBT gave, from Garner, that "whether or not" is required in sentences like "Whether he shows up or not, we're getting started tomorrow"? Surely we can't say "Whether he shows up, we're getting started tomorrow"?

                – sumelic
                Jan 11 '17 at 7:00






              • 1





                Hopefully @b.roth can come by and change the 'approved' answer. It should be WBT's or FumbleFingers's. This one is certainly incomplete, omitting the origin of the use in its binary meaning. It's certainly sometimes still necessary.

                – lly
                Jul 6 '17 at 15:06














              • 1





                The "If/*whether you decide to come, give me a call." example given in an answer to a strongly related question makes me question this pronouncement. I would hope some logical or grammatical rule would prevent the "Whether you decide to come, give me a call." option in such a case, even though I can't cite a specific rule myself.

                – John Tobler
                Sep 19 '11 at 22:36













              • Could you give me your thoughts on my answer? I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about it.

                – timothymh
                Jul 2 '12 at 2:34






              • 1





                @JohnT I think whether emphasizes a dichotomy in which one option is imminent, though the option may not be known. If emphasizes the conditional nature of the matter.

                – fredsbend
                Mar 3 '14 at 16:00






              • 3





                Do you disagree with the rule WBT gave, from Garner, that "whether or not" is required in sentences like "Whether he shows up or not, we're getting started tomorrow"? Surely we can't say "Whether he shows up, we're getting started tomorrow"?

                – sumelic
                Jan 11 '17 at 7:00






              • 1





                Hopefully @b.roth can come by and change the 'approved' answer. It should be WBT's or FumbleFingers's. This one is certainly incomplete, omitting the origin of the use in its binary meaning. It's certainly sometimes still necessary.

                – lly
                Jul 6 '17 at 15:06








              1




              1





              The "If/*whether you decide to come, give me a call." example given in an answer to a strongly related question makes me question this pronouncement. I would hope some logical or grammatical rule would prevent the "Whether you decide to come, give me a call." option in such a case, even though I can't cite a specific rule myself.

              – John Tobler
              Sep 19 '11 at 22:36







              The "If/*whether you decide to come, give me a call." example given in an answer to a strongly related question makes me question this pronouncement. I would hope some logical or grammatical rule would prevent the "Whether you decide to come, give me a call." option in such a case, even though I can't cite a specific rule myself.

              – John Tobler
              Sep 19 '11 at 22:36















              Could you give me your thoughts on my answer? I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about it.

              – timothymh
              Jul 2 '12 at 2:34





              Could you give me your thoughts on my answer? I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about it.

              – timothymh
              Jul 2 '12 at 2:34




              1




              1





              @JohnT I think whether emphasizes a dichotomy in which one option is imminent, though the option may not be known. If emphasizes the conditional nature of the matter.

              – fredsbend
              Mar 3 '14 at 16:00





              @JohnT I think whether emphasizes a dichotomy in which one option is imminent, though the option may not be known. If emphasizes the conditional nature of the matter.

              – fredsbend
              Mar 3 '14 at 16:00




              3




              3





              Do you disagree with the rule WBT gave, from Garner, that "whether or not" is required in sentences like "Whether he shows up or not, we're getting started tomorrow"? Surely we can't say "Whether he shows up, we're getting started tomorrow"?

              – sumelic
              Jan 11 '17 at 7:00





              Do you disagree with the rule WBT gave, from Garner, that "whether or not" is required in sentences like "Whether he shows up or not, we're getting started tomorrow"? Surely we can't say "Whether he shows up, we're getting started tomorrow"?

              – sumelic
              Jan 11 '17 at 7:00




              1




              1





              Hopefully @b.roth can come by and change the 'approved' answer. It should be WBT's or FumbleFingers's. This one is certainly incomplete, omitting the origin of the use in its binary meaning. It's certainly sometimes still necessary.

              – lly
              Jul 6 '17 at 15:06





              Hopefully @b.roth can come by and change the 'approved' answer. It should be WBT's or FumbleFingers's. This one is certainly incomplete, omitting the origin of the use in its binary meaning. It's certainly sometimes still necessary.

              – lly
              Jul 6 '17 at 15:06













              41














              It's worth pointing out that, etymologically speaking, the roots of whether are which/either of two. It's inherently a "binary choice" word, so whereas "I don't know whether it be fish or fowl" is fine, "I don't know whether it be fish or fowl or good red herring" isn't really grammatical. Which is not to say people never use that extended form - but it does sometimes attract criticism.



              With "unary choice" forms such as "I don't know whether I like it", the alternative ("I don't like it") can invariably be shortened to "or not" - or simply discarded completely, since it's implicit anyway.



              Possibly some will say if only one choice is presented, you should use "if" rather than "whether", but skimming through written instances of "Tell me whether" suggests that most people have always been quite relaxed on that point.



              TL;DR: "or not" is never required if the alternative is a simple negation of the stated proposition, but an "or" clause is required in, say, "You must choose whether to write novels or poems" (presupposing that writing, for example, software is not an option currently on offer).






              share|improve this answer






























                41














                It's worth pointing out that, etymologically speaking, the roots of whether are which/either of two. It's inherently a "binary choice" word, so whereas "I don't know whether it be fish or fowl" is fine, "I don't know whether it be fish or fowl or good red herring" isn't really grammatical. Which is not to say people never use that extended form - but it does sometimes attract criticism.



                With "unary choice" forms such as "I don't know whether I like it", the alternative ("I don't like it") can invariably be shortened to "or not" - or simply discarded completely, since it's implicit anyway.



                Possibly some will say if only one choice is presented, you should use "if" rather than "whether", but skimming through written instances of "Tell me whether" suggests that most people have always been quite relaxed on that point.



                TL;DR: "or not" is never required if the alternative is a simple negation of the stated proposition, but an "or" clause is required in, say, "You must choose whether to write novels or poems" (presupposing that writing, for example, software is not an option currently on offer).






                share|improve this answer




























                  41












                  41








                  41







                  It's worth pointing out that, etymologically speaking, the roots of whether are which/either of two. It's inherently a "binary choice" word, so whereas "I don't know whether it be fish or fowl" is fine, "I don't know whether it be fish or fowl or good red herring" isn't really grammatical. Which is not to say people never use that extended form - but it does sometimes attract criticism.



                  With "unary choice" forms such as "I don't know whether I like it", the alternative ("I don't like it") can invariably be shortened to "or not" - or simply discarded completely, since it's implicit anyway.



                  Possibly some will say if only one choice is presented, you should use "if" rather than "whether", but skimming through written instances of "Tell me whether" suggests that most people have always been quite relaxed on that point.



                  TL;DR: "or not" is never required if the alternative is a simple negation of the stated proposition, but an "or" clause is required in, say, "You must choose whether to write novels or poems" (presupposing that writing, for example, software is not an option currently on offer).






                  share|improve this answer















                  It's worth pointing out that, etymologically speaking, the roots of whether are which/either of two. It's inherently a "binary choice" word, so whereas "I don't know whether it be fish or fowl" is fine, "I don't know whether it be fish or fowl or good red herring" isn't really grammatical. Which is not to say people never use that extended form - but it does sometimes attract criticism.



                  With "unary choice" forms such as "I don't know whether I like it", the alternative ("I don't like it") can invariably be shortened to "or not" - or simply discarded completely, since it's implicit anyway.



                  Possibly some will say if only one choice is presented, you should use "if" rather than "whether", but skimming through written instances of "Tell me whether" suggests that most people have always been quite relaxed on that point.



                  TL;DR: "or not" is never required if the alternative is a simple negation of the stated proposition, but an "or" clause is required in, say, "You must choose whether to write novels or poems" (presupposing that writing, for example, software is not an option currently on offer).







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited Dec 3 '15 at 17:32

























                  answered Jan 12 '12 at 1:05









                  FumbleFingersFumbleFingers

                  120k33245427




                  120k33245427























                      9





                      +50









                      The New York Times' stylebook says or not is often redundant.

                      It is ordinarily omitted when the clause functions as a noun, e.g. it is the object of a verb or preposition, or subject of the sentence.

                      However, when a whether clause acts as an adverb, or not is needed.

                      Check this NYT blog post for more details.




                      Another test, courtesy of Garner’s Modern American Usage: “or not” is necessary when the phrase “whether or not” means “regardless of whether.”







                      share|improve this answer




























                        9





                        +50









                        The New York Times' stylebook says or not is often redundant.

                        It is ordinarily omitted when the clause functions as a noun, e.g. it is the object of a verb or preposition, or subject of the sentence.

                        However, when a whether clause acts as an adverb, or not is needed.

                        Check this NYT blog post for more details.




                        Another test, courtesy of Garner’s Modern American Usage: “or not” is necessary when the phrase “whether or not” means “regardless of whether.”







                        share|improve this answer


























                          9





                          +50







                          9





                          +50



                          9




                          +50





                          The New York Times' stylebook says or not is often redundant.

                          It is ordinarily omitted when the clause functions as a noun, e.g. it is the object of a verb or preposition, or subject of the sentence.

                          However, when a whether clause acts as an adverb, or not is needed.

                          Check this NYT blog post for more details.




                          Another test, courtesy of Garner’s Modern American Usage: “or not” is necessary when the phrase “whether or not” means “regardless of whether.”







                          share|improve this answer













                          The New York Times' stylebook says or not is often redundant.

                          It is ordinarily omitted when the clause functions as a noun, e.g. it is the object of a verb or preposition, or subject of the sentence.

                          However, when a whether clause acts as an adverb, or not is needed.

                          Check this NYT blog post for more details.




                          Another test, courtesy of Garner’s Modern American Usage: “or not” is necessary when the phrase “whether or not” means “regardless of whether.”








                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered Nov 22 '16 at 22:27









                          WBTWBT

                          2,65521433




                          2,65521433























                              5














                              Similarly to tomothymh, I use "whether" alone unless I intend to convey "regardless of whather." In the latter case, I think "whether or not" is generally preferable to "regardless of whether."



                              Thus:



                              Whether I wear a coat depends on the temperature.



                              But:



                              I'm going to wear my new red coat whether or not it's cold.






                              share|improve this answer




























                                5














                                Similarly to tomothymh, I use "whether" alone unless I intend to convey "regardless of whather." In the latter case, I think "whether or not" is generally preferable to "regardless of whether."



                                Thus:



                                Whether I wear a coat depends on the temperature.



                                But:



                                I'm going to wear my new red coat whether or not it's cold.






                                share|improve this answer


























                                  5












                                  5








                                  5







                                  Similarly to tomothymh, I use "whether" alone unless I intend to convey "regardless of whather." In the latter case, I think "whether or not" is generally preferable to "regardless of whether."



                                  Thus:



                                  Whether I wear a coat depends on the temperature.



                                  But:



                                  I'm going to wear my new red coat whether or not it's cold.






                                  share|improve this answer













                                  Similarly to tomothymh, I use "whether" alone unless I intend to convey "regardless of whather." In the latter case, I think "whether or not" is generally preferable to "regardless of whether."



                                  Thus:



                                  Whether I wear a coat depends on the temperature.



                                  But:



                                  I'm going to wear my new red coat whether or not it's cold.







                                  share|improve this answer












                                  share|improve this answer



                                  share|improve this answer










                                  answered Mar 15 '14 at 22:44









                                  PettifoggerPettifogger

                                  5111




                                  5111























                                      1














                                      When whether or not is implicit, you may use "or not" for the style or to underline ; it's up to you.



                                      But if, "or not" is not implicit - for ex. in a choice with options, we don't use "or not" : "Whether the car will be black, red or white, I shall drive it."






                                      share|improve this answer




























                                        1














                                        When whether or not is implicit, you may use "or not" for the style or to underline ; it's up to you.



                                        But if, "or not" is not implicit - for ex. in a choice with options, we don't use "or not" : "Whether the car will be black, red or white, I shall drive it."






                                        share|improve this answer


























                                          1












                                          1








                                          1







                                          When whether or not is implicit, you may use "or not" for the style or to underline ; it's up to you.



                                          But if, "or not" is not implicit - for ex. in a choice with options, we don't use "or not" : "Whether the car will be black, red or white, I shall drive it."






                                          share|improve this answer













                                          When whether or not is implicit, you may use "or not" for the style or to underline ; it's up to you.



                                          But if, "or not" is not implicit - for ex. in a choice with options, we don't use "or not" : "Whether the car will be black, red or white, I shall drive it."







                                          share|improve this answer












                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer










                                          answered Feb 19 '16 at 10:27









                                          DAVEDAVE

                                          610413




                                          610413























                                              0














                                              I'm surprised nobody mentioned this that I saw, so I'll post an answer.



                                              The word whether should be used by itself in the situations you mentioned above. The “or not” is a mistaken crossover from the correct usage of “whether or not” mentioned below. It is often used that way, but when writing it's best to avoid that unnecessary bit.



                                              The phrase whether or not is a condition, used in statements to show that something will or will not happen, regardless of certain other variables:




                                              I'm going to go on strike whether or not anyone joins me!




                                              This would be less correct, however, if used like this:




                                              I don't care whether or not anyone joins me, I'm going on strike!







                                              share|improve this answer



















                                              • 2





                                                I don't see any difference in meaning or grammaticality of your two examples.

                                                – Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 4:01






                                              • 1





                                                That's my point exactly—the meaning is exactly the same. However, if you try removing "or not" from each of those, only one makes sense!

                                                – timothymh
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 4:24











                                              • My argument is a Strunk & White kind of one.

                                                – timothymh
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 4:25






                                              • 3





                                                I don't agree that the addition of or not is a "mistaken crossover". Whether introduces two or more possibilities; adding or not is merely clarifying what one of the possibilities is, whether or not it's obvious. ;-)

                                                – Jez
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 10:12






                                              • 1





                                                To quote Rule 17 of The Elements of Style: "Omit needless words."

                                                – timothymh
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 17:47


















                                              0














                                              I'm surprised nobody mentioned this that I saw, so I'll post an answer.



                                              The word whether should be used by itself in the situations you mentioned above. The “or not” is a mistaken crossover from the correct usage of “whether or not” mentioned below. It is often used that way, but when writing it's best to avoid that unnecessary bit.



                                              The phrase whether or not is a condition, used in statements to show that something will or will not happen, regardless of certain other variables:




                                              I'm going to go on strike whether or not anyone joins me!




                                              This would be less correct, however, if used like this:




                                              I don't care whether or not anyone joins me, I'm going on strike!







                                              share|improve this answer



















                                              • 2





                                                I don't see any difference in meaning or grammaticality of your two examples.

                                                – Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 4:01






                                              • 1





                                                That's my point exactly—the meaning is exactly the same. However, if you try removing "or not" from each of those, only one makes sense!

                                                – timothymh
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 4:24











                                              • My argument is a Strunk & White kind of one.

                                                – timothymh
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 4:25






                                              • 3





                                                I don't agree that the addition of or not is a "mistaken crossover". Whether introduces two or more possibilities; adding or not is merely clarifying what one of the possibilities is, whether or not it's obvious. ;-)

                                                – Jez
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 10:12






                                              • 1





                                                To quote Rule 17 of The Elements of Style: "Omit needless words."

                                                – timothymh
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 17:47
















                                              0












                                              0








                                              0







                                              I'm surprised nobody mentioned this that I saw, so I'll post an answer.



                                              The word whether should be used by itself in the situations you mentioned above. The “or not” is a mistaken crossover from the correct usage of “whether or not” mentioned below. It is often used that way, but when writing it's best to avoid that unnecessary bit.



                                              The phrase whether or not is a condition, used in statements to show that something will or will not happen, regardless of certain other variables:




                                              I'm going to go on strike whether or not anyone joins me!




                                              This would be less correct, however, if used like this:




                                              I don't care whether or not anyone joins me, I'm going on strike!







                                              share|improve this answer













                                              I'm surprised nobody mentioned this that I saw, so I'll post an answer.



                                              The word whether should be used by itself in the situations you mentioned above. The “or not” is a mistaken crossover from the correct usage of “whether or not” mentioned below. It is often used that way, but when writing it's best to avoid that unnecessary bit.



                                              The phrase whether or not is a condition, used in statements to show that something will or will not happen, regardless of certain other variables:




                                              I'm going to go on strike whether or not anyone joins me!




                                              This would be less correct, however, if used like this:




                                              I don't care whether or not anyone joins me, I'm going on strike!








                                              share|improve this answer












                                              share|improve this answer



                                              share|improve this answer










                                              answered Jul 2 '12 at 2:19









                                              timothymhtimothymh

                                              5203618




                                              5203618








                                              • 2





                                                I don't see any difference in meaning or grammaticality of your two examples.

                                                – Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 4:01






                                              • 1





                                                That's my point exactly—the meaning is exactly the same. However, if you try removing "or not" from each of those, only one makes sense!

                                                – timothymh
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 4:24











                                              • My argument is a Strunk & White kind of one.

                                                – timothymh
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 4:25






                                              • 3





                                                I don't agree that the addition of or not is a "mistaken crossover". Whether introduces two or more possibilities; adding or not is merely clarifying what one of the possibilities is, whether or not it's obvious. ;-)

                                                – Jez
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 10:12






                                              • 1





                                                To quote Rule 17 of The Elements of Style: "Omit needless words."

                                                – timothymh
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 17:47
















                                              • 2





                                                I don't see any difference in meaning or grammaticality of your two examples.

                                                – Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 4:01






                                              • 1





                                                That's my point exactly—the meaning is exactly the same. However, if you try removing "or not" from each of those, only one makes sense!

                                                – timothymh
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 4:24











                                              • My argument is a Strunk & White kind of one.

                                                – timothymh
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 4:25






                                              • 3





                                                I don't agree that the addition of or not is a "mistaken crossover". Whether introduces two or more possibilities; adding or not is merely clarifying what one of the possibilities is, whether or not it's obvious. ;-)

                                                – Jez
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 10:12






                                              • 1





                                                To quote Rule 17 of The Elements of Style: "Omit needless words."

                                                – timothymh
                                                Jul 2 '12 at 17:47










                                              2




                                              2





                                              I don't see any difference in meaning or grammaticality of your two examples.

                                              – Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
                                              Jul 2 '12 at 4:01





                                              I don't see any difference in meaning or grammaticality of your two examples.

                                              – Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
                                              Jul 2 '12 at 4:01




                                              1




                                              1





                                              That's my point exactly—the meaning is exactly the same. However, if you try removing "or not" from each of those, only one makes sense!

                                              – timothymh
                                              Jul 2 '12 at 4:24





                                              That's my point exactly—the meaning is exactly the same. However, if you try removing "or not" from each of those, only one makes sense!

                                              – timothymh
                                              Jul 2 '12 at 4:24













                                              My argument is a Strunk & White kind of one.

                                              – timothymh
                                              Jul 2 '12 at 4:25





                                              My argument is a Strunk & White kind of one.

                                              – timothymh
                                              Jul 2 '12 at 4:25




                                              3




                                              3





                                              I don't agree that the addition of or not is a "mistaken crossover". Whether introduces two or more possibilities; adding or not is merely clarifying what one of the possibilities is, whether or not it's obvious. ;-)

                                              – Jez
                                              Jul 2 '12 at 10:12





                                              I don't agree that the addition of or not is a "mistaken crossover". Whether introduces two or more possibilities; adding or not is merely clarifying what one of the possibilities is, whether or not it's obvious. ;-)

                                              – Jez
                                              Jul 2 '12 at 10:12




                                              1




                                              1





                                              To quote Rule 17 of The Elements of Style: "Omit needless words."

                                              – timothymh
                                              Jul 2 '12 at 17:47







                                              To quote Rule 17 of The Elements of Style: "Omit needless words."

                                              – timothymh
                                              Jul 2 '12 at 17:47













                                              0














                                              It depends. Quotes from Times’s stylebook (explained here):




                                              Often "or not" is redundant after whether, but not always. The
                                              phrase may ordinarily be omitted in these cases:



                                              • When the whether clause is the object of a verb: She wonders whether
                                              the teacher will attend. (The clause is the object of wonders.)



                                              • When the clause is the object of a preposition: The teacher will
                                              base his decision on whether the car has been repaired. (The clause is
                                              the object of on.)



                                              • When the clause is the subject of the sentence: Whether the car will
                                              be ready depends on the mechanic. (The clause is the subject of
                                              depends.)



                                              But when a whether clause modifies a verb, or not is needed: They will
                                              play tomorrow whether or not it rains. (The clause modifies play.)







                                              share|improve this answer




























                                                0














                                                It depends. Quotes from Times’s stylebook (explained here):




                                                Often "or not" is redundant after whether, but not always. The
                                                phrase may ordinarily be omitted in these cases:



                                                • When the whether clause is the object of a verb: She wonders whether
                                                the teacher will attend. (The clause is the object of wonders.)



                                                • When the clause is the object of a preposition: The teacher will
                                                base his decision on whether the car has been repaired. (The clause is
                                                the object of on.)



                                                • When the clause is the subject of the sentence: Whether the car will
                                                be ready depends on the mechanic. (The clause is the subject of
                                                depends.)



                                                But when a whether clause modifies a verb, or not is needed: They will
                                                play tomorrow whether or not it rains. (The clause modifies play.)







                                                share|improve this answer


























                                                  0












                                                  0








                                                  0







                                                  It depends. Quotes from Times’s stylebook (explained here):




                                                  Often "or not" is redundant after whether, but not always. The
                                                  phrase may ordinarily be omitted in these cases:



                                                  • When the whether clause is the object of a verb: She wonders whether
                                                  the teacher will attend. (The clause is the object of wonders.)



                                                  • When the clause is the object of a preposition: The teacher will
                                                  base his decision on whether the car has been repaired. (The clause is
                                                  the object of on.)



                                                  • When the clause is the subject of the sentence: Whether the car will
                                                  be ready depends on the mechanic. (The clause is the subject of
                                                  depends.)



                                                  But when a whether clause modifies a verb, or not is needed: They will
                                                  play tomorrow whether or not it rains. (The clause modifies play.)







                                                  share|improve this answer













                                                  It depends. Quotes from Times’s stylebook (explained here):




                                                  Often "or not" is redundant after whether, but not always. The
                                                  phrase may ordinarily be omitted in these cases:



                                                  • When the whether clause is the object of a verb: She wonders whether
                                                  the teacher will attend. (The clause is the object of wonders.)



                                                  • When the clause is the object of a preposition: The teacher will
                                                  base his decision on whether the car has been repaired. (The clause is
                                                  the object of on.)



                                                  • When the clause is the subject of the sentence: Whether the car will
                                                  be ready depends on the mechanic. (The clause is the subject of
                                                  depends.)



                                                  But when a whether clause modifies a verb, or not is needed: They will
                                                  play tomorrow whether or not it rains. (The clause modifies play.)








                                                  share|improve this answer












                                                  share|improve this answer



                                                  share|improve this answer










                                                  answered 1 hour ago









                                                  AliAli

                                                  126115




                                                  126115























                                                      -2














                                                      Although perhaps implied in the answers above, I think it could be clarified a bit: Whether is binary. In a sentence where two options are offered, no 'or not' is required - in fact it would be quite cumbersome. However, if the option is to do or not to do, is or isn't, then the 'or not' is required.



                                                      I don't know whether I should have the fish or the chicken.
                                                      I don't know whether I should eat or not.






                                                      share|improve this answer




























                                                        -2














                                                        Although perhaps implied in the answers above, I think it could be clarified a bit: Whether is binary. In a sentence where two options are offered, no 'or not' is required - in fact it would be quite cumbersome. However, if the option is to do or not to do, is or isn't, then the 'or not' is required.



                                                        I don't know whether I should have the fish or the chicken.
                                                        I don't know whether I should eat or not.






                                                        share|improve this answer


























                                                          -2












                                                          -2








                                                          -2







                                                          Although perhaps implied in the answers above, I think it could be clarified a bit: Whether is binary. In a sentence where two options are offered, no 'or not' is required - in fact it would be quite cumbersome. However, if the option is to do or not to do, is or isn't, then the 'or not' is required.



                                                          I don't know whether I should have the fish or the chicken.
                                                          I don't know whether I should eat or not.






                                                          share|improve this answer













                                                          Although perhaps implied in the answers above, I think it could be clarified a bit: Whether is binary. In a sentence where two options are offered, no 'or not' is required - in fact it would be quite cumbersome. However, if the option is to do or not to do, is or isn't, then the 'or not' is required.



                                                          I don't know whether I should have the fish or the chicken.
                                                          I don't know whether I should eat or not.







                                                          share|improve this answer












                                                          share|improve this answer



                                                          share|improve this answer










                                                          answered May 21 '14 at 22:06









                                                          KevinKevin

                                                          1




                                                          1

















                                                              protected by tchrist Jul 1 '14 at 1:09



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