PTIJ: Why does only a Shor Tam ask at the Seder, and not a Shor Mu'ad?












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We all know the four sons: the wise son, the wicked son, the Tam, and the son who doesn't know how to ask.



As we all know as well, there's two types of cows: those which have gored less than three times (a Shor Tam) and those which have gored more than three times (a Shor Mu'ad - see Shemos 21:28ff with Bava Kamma 23b).



Why does only a Shor Tam get to ask at the Seder? Why not a Shor Mu'ad?





This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.










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    3















    We all know the four sons: the wise son, the wicked son, the Tam, and the son who doesn't know how to ask.



    As we all know as well, there's two types of cows: those which have gored less than three times (a Shor Tam) and those which have gored more than three times (a Shor Mu'ad - see Shemos 21:28ff with Bava Kamma 23b).



    Why does only a Shor Tam get to ask at the Seder? Why not a Shor Mu'ad?





    This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.










    share|improve this question

























      3












      3








      3








      We all know the four sons: the wise son, the wicked son, the Tam, and the son who doesn't know how to ask.



      As we all know as well, there's two types of cows: those which have gored less than three times (a Shor Tam) and those which have gored more than three times (a Shor Mu'ad - see Shemos 21:28ff with Bava Kamma 23b).



      Why does only a Shor Tam get to ask at the Seder? Why not a Shor Mu'ad?





      This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.










      share|improve this question














      We all know the four sons: the wise son, the wicked son, the Tam, and the son who doesn't know how to ask.



      As we all know as well, there's two types of cows: those which have gored less than three times (a Shor Tam) and those which have gored more than three times (a Shor Mu'ad - see Shemos 21:28ff with Bava Kamma 23b).



      Why does only a Shor Tam get to ask at the Seder? Why not a Shor Mu'ad?





      This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.







      purim-torah-in-jest






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      asked 3 hours ago









      DonielFDonielF

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          You're reading it wrong. It's shor moed, not shur muad. A shor moed already knows everything about Yom Tov, so he has no need to ask questions.



          It's true that part of the mitzvah of ספור יציאת מצרים is via asking questions, but since the shor moed attends other people's sedarim, he's yotzei through their questions. The only way to find out what questions he would ask is to eavesdrop on a seder where everyone present is a shor moed. This is unlikely to happen because, as the Ibn Ezra writes, there's only one shor who ever had friends. It's not clear whether he was a shor moed or not, but he's unfortunately no longer with us, since he was alive at or before the time of the Ibn Ezra, and the longest lived cow on record only lived 48 years.



          The only option remaining is to listen in on a shor moed who's doing the seder all by himself. At that point you'd have to invite him to your own, because nobody should have to celebrate Yom Tov all by himself.



          There is one possibility: if you're an Israeli and you find a shor moed from Chutz Laaretz, you could go to his second seder on your first night of Chol Hamoed. Since you're not obligated to do the seder that night, your questions are not sufficient to fulfill his obligation to ask questions, so he'd have to ask himself. Just make sure to bring your own food, since he won't be able to cook for you.



          If anyone manages this, please comment and let us know what questions he asks.






          share|improve this answer


























          • Ironically, someone actually mistranslated שור מועד as "the holiday ox" in a serious publication.

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • @Alex Do you have any more info on that?

            – Heshy
            2 hours ago











          • It’s in the memoirs of the son of R. Simcha Zelig the dayan in Brisk. Let me find it.

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • Found it. It's on page 41, when the author is describing the things he came across in the Talmud. One of them was: here was the ox that gored the cow, the holiday ox, and the ox of the fool

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • Thanks! That's really funny! I guess it's this book? books.google.com/…

            – Heshy
            2 hours ago



















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes








          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          5














          You're reading it wrong. It's shor moed, not shur muad. A shor moed already knows everything about Yom Tov, so he has no need to ask questions.



          It's true that part of the mitzvah of ספור יציאת מצרים is via asking questions, but since the shor moed attends other people's sedarim, he's yotzei through their questions. The only way to find out what questions he would ask is to eavesdrop on a seder where everyone present is a shor moed. This is unlikely to happen because, as the Ibn Ezra writes, there's only one shor who ever had friends. It's not clear whether he was a shor moed or not, but he's unfortunately no longer with us, since he was alive at or before the time of the Ibn Ezra, and the longest lived cow on record only lived 48 years.



          The only option remaining is to listen in on a shor moed who's doing the seder all by himself. At that point you'd have to invite him to your own, because nobody should have to celebrate Yom Tov all by himself.



          There is one possibility: if you're an Israeli and you find a shor moed from Chutz Laaretz, you could go to his second seder on your first night of Chol Hamoed. Since you're not obligated to do the seder that night, your questions are not sufficient to fulfill his obligation to ask questions, so he'd have to ask himself. Just make sure to bring your own food, since he won't be able to cook for you.



          If anyone manages this, please comment and let us know what questions he asks.






          share|improve this answer


























          • Ironically, someone actually mistranslated שור מועד as "the holiday ox" in a serious publication.

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • @Alex Do you have any more info on that?

            – Heshy
            2 hours ago











          • It’s in the memoirs of the son of R. Simcha Zelig the dayan in Brisk. Let me find it.

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • Found it. It's on page 41, when the author is describing the things he came across in the Talmud. One of them was: here was the ox that gored the cow, the holiday ox, and the ox of the fool

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • Thanks! That's really funny! I guess it's this book? books.google.com/…

            – Heshy
            2 hours ago
















          5














          You're reading it wrong. It's shor moed, not shur muad. A shor moed already knows everything about Yom Tov, so he has no need to ask questions.



          It's true that part of the mitzvah of ספור יציאת מצרים is via asking questions, but since the shor moed attends other people's sedarim, he's yotzei through their questions. The only way to find out what questions he would ask is to eavesdrop on a seder where everyone present is a shor moed. This is unlikely to happen because, as the Ibn Ezra writes, there's only one shor who ever had friends. It's not clear whether he was a shor moed or not, but he's unfortunately no longer with us, since he was alive at or before the time of the Ibn Ezra, and the longest lived cow on record only lived 48 years.



          The only option remaining is to listen in on a shor moed who's doing the seder all by himself. At that point you'd have to invite him to your own, because nobody should have to celebrate Yom Tov all by himself.



          There is one possibility: if you're an Israeli and you find a shor moed from Chutz Laaretz, you could go to his second seder on your first night of Chol Hamoed. Since you're not obligated to do the seder that night, your questions are not sufficient to fulfill his obligation to ask questions, so he'd have to ask himself. Just make sure to bring your own food, since he won't be able to cook for you.



          If anyone manages this, please comment and let us know what questions he asks.






          share|improve this answer


























          • Ironically, someone actually mistranslated שור מועד as "the holiday ox" in a serious publication.

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • @Alex Do you have any more info on that?

            – Heshy
            2 hours ago











          • It’s in the memoirs of the son of R. Simcha Zelig the dayan in Brisk. Let me find it.

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • Found it. It's on page 41, when the author is describing the things he came across in the Talmud. One of them was: here was the ox that gored the cow, the holiday ox, and the ox of the fool

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • Thanks! That's really funny! I guess it's this book? books.google.com/…

            – Heshy
            2 hours ago














          5












          5








          5







          You're reading it wrong. It's shor moed, not shur muad. A shor moed already knows everything about Yom Tov, so he has no need to ask questions.



          It's true that part of the mitzvah of ספור יציאת מצרים is via asking questions, but since the shor moed attends other people's sedarim, he's yotzei through their questions. The only way to find out what questions he would ask is to eavesdrop on a seder where everyone present is a shor moed. This is unlikely to happen because, as the Ibn Ezra writes, there's only one shor who ever had friends. It's not clear whether he was a shor moed or not, but he's unfortunately no longer with us, since he was alive at or before the time of the Ibn Ezra, and the longest lived cow on record only lived 48 years.



          The only option remaining is to listen in on a shor moed who's doing the seder all by himself. At that point you'd have to invite him to your own, because nobody should have to celebrate Yom Tov all by himself.



          There is one possibility: if you're an Israeli and you find a shor moed from Chutz Laaretz, you could go to his second seder on your first night of Chol Hamoed. Since you're not obligated to do the seder that night, your questions are not sufficient to fulfill his obligation to ask questions, so he'd have to ask himself. Just make sure to bring your own food, since he won't be able to cook for you.



          If anyone manages this, please comment and let us know what questions he asks.






          share|improve this answer















          You're reading it wrong. It's shor moed, not shur muad. A shor moed already knows everything about Yom Tov, so he has no need to ask questions.



          It's true that part of the mitzvah of ספור יציאת מצרים is via asking questions, but since the shor moed attends other people's sedarim, he's yotzei through their questions. The only way to find out what questions he would ask is to eavesdrop on a seder where everyone present is a shor moed. This is unlikely to happen because, as the Ibn Ezra writes, there's only one shor who ever had friends. It's not clear whether he was a shor moed or not, but he's unfortunately no longer with us, since he was alive at or before the time of the Ibn Ezra, and the longest lived cow on record only lived 48 years.



          The only option remaining is to listen in on a shor moed who's doing the seder all by himself. At that point you'd have to invite him to your own, because nobody should have to celebrate Yom Tov all by himself.



          There is one possibility: if you're an Israeli and you find a shor moed from Chutz Laaretz, you could go to his second seder on your first night of Chol Hamoed. Since you're not obligated to do the seder that night, your questions are not sufficient to fulfill his obligation to ask questions, so he'd have to ask himself. Just make sure to bring your own food, since he won't be able to cook for you.



          If anyone manages this, please comment and let us know what questions he asks.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 2 hours ago

























          answered 2 hours ago









          HeshyHeshy

          3,393723




          3,393723













          • Ironically, someone actually mistranslated שור מועד as "the holiday ox" in a serious publication.

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • @Alex Do you have any more info on that?

            – Heshy
            2 hours ago











          • It’s in the memoirs of the son of R. Simcha Zelig the dayan in Brisk. Let me find it.

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • Found it. It's on page 41, when the author is describing the things he came across in the Talmud. One of them was: here was the ox that gored the cow, the holiday ox, and the ox of the fool

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • Thanks! That's really funny! I guess it's this book? books.google.com/…

            – Heshy
            2 hours ago



















          • Ironically, someone actually mistranslated שור מועד as "the holiday ox" in a serious publication.

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • @Alex Do you have any more info on that?

            – Heshy
            2 hours ago











          • It’s in the memoirs of the son of R. Simcha Zelig the dayan in Brisk. Let me find it.

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • Found it. It's on page 41, when the author is describing the things he came across in the Talmud. One of them was: here was the ox that gored the cow, the holiday ox, and the ox of the fool

            – Alex
            2 hours ago











          • Thanks! That's really funny! I guess it's this book? books.google.com/…

            – Heshy
            2 hours ago

















          Ironically, someone actually mistranslated שור מועד as "the holiday ox" in a serious publication.

          – Alex
          2 hours ago





          Ironically, someone actually mistranslated שור מועד as "the holiday ox" in a serious publication.

          – Alex
          2 hours ago













          @Alex Do you have any more info on that?

          – Heshy
          2 hours ago





          @Alex Do you have any more info on that?

          – Heshy
          2 hours ago













          It’s in the memoirs of the son of R. Simcha Zelig the dayan in Brisk. Let me find it.

          – Alex
          2 hours ago





          It’s in the memoirs of the son of R. Simcha Zelig the dayan in Brisk. Let me find it.

          – Alex
          2 hours ago













          Found it. It's on page 41, when the author is describing the things he came across in the Talmud. One of them was: here was the ox that gored the cow, the holiday ox, and the ox of the fool

          – Alex
          2 hours ago





          Found it. It's on page 41, when the author is describing the things he came across in the Talmud. One of them was: here was the ox that gored the cow, the holiday ox, and the ox of the fool

          – Alex
          2 hours ago













          Thanks! That's really funny! I guess it's this book? books.google.com/…

          – Heshy
          2 hours ago





          Thanks! That's really funny! I guess it's this book? books.google.com/…

          – Heshy
          2 hours ago



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