What does Banishment do if the target Plane Shifts back?












20












$begingroup$


When the spell Banishment is cast:




If the target is native to a different plane of existence that the one you're on, the target is banished with a faint popping noise, returning to its home plane. If the spell ends before 1 minute has passed, the target reappears in the space it left or in the nearest unoccupied space if that space is occupied. Otherwise, the target doesn't return.




Unlike the case where the target is native to the plane, they are not incapacitated for the duration of the Banishment. That means the target could cast a spell, like Plane Shift, to return to the plane they were banished from.



If they do this, and return to the plane they were banished from before the end of the Banishment's duration, do either of the effects at the end of Banishment ("reappears" if the spell ends early, or "doesn't return" if it doesn't) have any actual effect, given that the target has already extracted themself from the plane they were banished to?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    20












    $begingroup$


    When the spell Banishment is cast:




    If the target is native to a different plane of existence that the one you're on, the target is banished with a faint popping noise, returning to its home plane. If the spell ends before 1 minute has passed, the target reappears in the space it left or in the nearest unoccupied space if that space is occupied. Otherwise, the target doesn't return.




    Unlike the case where the target is native to the plane, they are not incapacitated for the duration of the Banishment. That means the target could cast a spell, like Plane Shift, to return to the plane they were banished from.



    If they do this, and return to the plane they were banished from before the end of the Banishment's duration, do either of the effects at the end of Banishment ("reappears" if the spell ends early, or "doesn't return" if it doesn't) have any actual effect, given that the target has already extracted themself from the plane they were banished to?










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      20












      20








      20


      1



      $begingroup$


      When the spell Banishment is cast:




      If the target is native to a different plane of existence that the one you're on, the target is banished with a faint popping noise, returning to its home plane. If the spell ends before 1 minute has passed, the target reappears in the space it left or in the nearest unoccupied space if that space is occupied. Otherwise, the target doesn't return.




      Unlike the case where the target is native to the plane, they are not incapacitated for the duration of the Banishment. That means the target could cast a spell, like Plane Shift, to return to the plane they were banished from.



      If they do this, and return to the plane they were banished from before the end of the Banishment's duration, do either of the effects at the end of Banishment ("reappears" if the spell ends early, or "doesn't return" if it doesn't) have any actual effect, given that the target has already extracted themself from the plane they were banished to?










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      When the spell Banishment is cast:




      If the target is native to a different plane of existence that the one you're on, the target is banished with a faint popping noise, returning to its home plane. If the spell ends before 1 minute has passed, the target reappears in the space it left or in the nearest unoccupied space if that space is occupied. Otherwise, the target doesn't return.




      Unlike the case where the target is native to the plane, they are not incapacitated for the duration of the Banishment. That means the target could cast a spell, like Plane Shift, to return to the plane they were banished from.



      If they do this, and return to the plane they were banished from before the end of the Banishment's duration, do either of the effects at the end of Banishment ("reappears" if the spell ends early, or "doesn't return" if it doesn't) have any actual effect, given that the target has already extracted themself from the plane they were banished to?







      dnd-5e spells planes






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 16 hours ago







      Vigil

















      asked 18 hours ago









      VigilVigil

      5,9272677




      5,9272677






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          8












          $begingroup$

          If the spell ends, the effects still occur.



          There is no evidence that the spell operates any differently if the creature affected moves to a new plane.



          If the spell ends before one minute is over, the creature will return to the space it left (or the nearest unoccupied space). It would essentially teleport to where it started on the caster's plane.



          If the spell goes the whole minute, the creature doesn't return to the space it left. I.e. it stays wherever it is on the plane it plane shifted to.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$









          • 7




            $begingroup$
            I understood this question differently; I thought the OP meant "if the target of the banishment spell (i.e. say, a genie) casts plane shift to get back to where it was when you banished it, does that work or does the banishment spell somehow block their plane shift spell?"
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            17 hours ago








          • 2




            $begingroup$
            @NathanS it seems like they just want to know what happens when the spell ends. Nowhere do they ask whether the creature can plane shift back
            $endgroup$
            – David Coffron
            17 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            I thought that it was unambiguous that plane shift would work for the target of banishment (although obviously if that foundational assumption is wrong then a good answer would address it). So David is correct in his interpretation of my question. The "potentially" in Nathan's quote is only intended to point out that they don't have to do this, but I can see how it might confuse so will try to reword.
            $endgroup$
            – Vigil
            16 hours ago






          • 7




            $begingroup$
            @Vigil I see, so this is more about "are there any unexpected results of those clauses of banishment if the target somehow made it back to their original space on their own (such as via plane shift), or does banishment simply do nothing at that point (i.e. when it ends) because it no longer makes sense"? If that's the case, I still feel as though David's answer could do more to address that, since as it stands it appears just to describe the normal function of banishment under normal circumstances, whereas this is an extraordinary circumstance...
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            15 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @NathanS or, what if the target of Banishment used Plane Shift to teleport to a third plane (neither their home plane nor the plane they were banished from)? If the Banishment spell then failed before a minute was up, it might seem that there would be cause to let the target stay on the third plane, as perhaps Banishment's wouldn't even be expected to extend there.
            $endgroup$
            – Robert Columbia
            14 hours ago





















          -7












          $begingroup$

          They can't plane shift back.



          The effect of the spell is not merely to send the creature to its plane of origin, but to "banish" it. "Banished" very specifically means forbidden to come back.



          Ongoing spell effects generally end when the spell's duration is up, and banishment doesn't say otherwise, so presumably the creature could plane shift back afterward.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$









          • 4




            $begingroup$
            If it couldn't come back, it would say so. All banishing does is send something away. Could you support in the rules where anything prevents it from returning on its own?
            $endgroup$
            – MarkTO
            8 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Yes: "the target is banished".
            $endgroup$
            – Mark Wells
            8 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            the first and second parts contradict each other
            $endgroup$
            – user50904
            46 mins ago











          Your Answer





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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes








          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          8












          $begingroup$

          If the spell ends, the effects still occur.



          There is no evidence that the spell operates any differently if the creature affected moves to a new plane.



          If the spell ends before one minute is over, the creature will return to the space it left (or the nearest unoccupied space). It would essentially teleport to where it started on the caster's plane.



          If the spell goes the whole minute, the creature doesn't return to the space it left. I.e. it stays wherever it is on the plane it plane shifted to.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$









          • 7




            $begingroup$
            I understood this question differently; I thought the OP meant "if the target of the banishment spell (i.e. say, a genie) casts plane shift to get back to where it was when you banished it, does that work or does the banishment spell somehow block their plane shift spell?"
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            17 hours ago








          • 2




            $begingroup$
            @NathanS it seems like they just want to know what happens when the spell ends. Nowhere do they ask whether the creature can plane shift back
            $endgroup$
            – David Coffron
            17 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            I thought that it was unambiguous that plane shift would work for the target of banishment (although obviously if that foundational assumption is wrong then a good answer would address it). So David is correct in his interpretation of my question. The "potentially" in Nathan's quote is only intended to point out that they don't have to do this, but I can see how it might confuse so will try to reword.
            $endgroup$
            – Vigil
            16 hours ago






          • 7




            $begingroup$
            @Vigil I see, so this is more about "are there any unexpected results of those clauses of banishment if the target somehow made it back to their original space on their own (such as via plane shift), or does banishment simply do nothing at that point (i.e. when it ends) because it no longer makes sense"? If that's the case, I still feel as though David's answer could do more to address that, since as it stands it appears just to describe the normal function of banishment under normal circumstances, whereas this is an extraordinary circumstance...
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            15 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @NathanS or, what if the target of Banishment used Plane Shift to teleport to a third plane (neither their home plane nor the plane they were banished from)? If the Banishment spell then failed before a minute was up, it might seem that there would be cause to let the target stay on the third plane, as perhaps Banishment's wouldn't even be expected to extend there.
            $endgroup$
            – Robert Columbia
            14 hours ago


















          8












          $begingroup$

          If the spell ends, the effects still occur.



          There is no evidence that the spell operates any differently if the creature affected moves to a new plane.



          If the spell ends before one minute is over, the creature will return to the space it left (or the nearest unoccupied space). It would essentially teleport to where it started on the caster's plane.



          If the spell goes the whole minute, the creature doesn't return to the space it left. I.e. it stays wherever it is on the plane it plane shifted to.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$









          • 7




            $begingroup$
            I understood this question differently; I thought the OP meant "if the target of the banishment spell (i.e. say, a genie) casts plane shift to get back to where it was when you banished it, does that work or does the banishment spell somehow block their plane shift spell?"
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            17 hours ago








          • 2




            $begingroup$
            @NathanS it seems like they just want to know what happens when the spell ends. Nowhere do they ask whether the creature can plane shift back
            $endgroup$
            – David Coffron
            17 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            I thought that it was unambiguous that plane shift would work for the target of banishment (although obviously if that foundational assumption is wrong then a good answer would address it). So David is correct in his interpretation of my question. The "potentially" in Nathan's quote is only intended to point out that they don't have to do this, but I can see how it might confuse so will try to reword.
            $endgroup$
            – Vigil
            16 hours ago






          • 7




            $begingroup$
            @Vigil I see, so this is more about "are there any unexpected results of those clauses of banishment if the target somehow made it back to their original space on their own (such as via plane shift), or does banishment simply do nothing at that point (i.e. when it ends) because it no longer makes sense"? If that's the case, I still feel as though David's answer could do more to address that, since as it stands it appears just to describe the normal function of banishment under normal circumstances, whereas this is an extraordinary circumstance...
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            15 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @NathanS or, what if the target of Banishment used Plane Shift to teleport to a third plane (neither their home plane nor the plane they were banished from)? If the Banishment spell then failed before a minute was up, it might seem that there would be cause to let the target stay on the third plane, as perhaps Banishment's wouldn't even be expected to extend there.
            $endgroup$
            – Robert Columbia
            14 hours ago
















          8












          8








          8





          $begingroup$

          If the spell ends, the effects still occur.



          There is no evidence that the spell operates any differently if the creature affected moves to a new plane.



          If the spell ends before one minute is over, the creature will return to the space it left (or the nearest unoccupied space). It would essentially teleport to where it started on the caster's plane.



          If the spell goes the whole minute, the creature doesn't return to the space it left. I.e. it stays wherever it is on the plane it plane shifted to.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          If the spell ends, the effects still occur.



          There is no evidence that the spell operates any differently if the creature affected moves to a new plane.



          If the spell ends before one minute is over, the creature will return to the space it left (or the nearest unoccupied space). It would essentially teleport to where it started on the caster's plane.



          If the spell goes the whole minute, the creature doesn't return to the space it left. I.e. it stays wherever it is on the plane it plane shifted to.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 13 hours ago

























          answered 17 hours ago









          David CoffronDavid Coffron

          36.7k3124255




          36.7k3124255








          • 7




            $begingroup$
            I understood this question differently; I thought the OP meant "if the target of the banishment spell (i.e. say, a genie) casts plane shift to get back to where it was when you banished it, does that work or does the banishment spell somehow block their plane shift spell?"
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            17 hours ago








          • 2




            $begingroup$
            @NathanS it seems like they just want to know what happens when the spell ends. Nowhere do they ask whether the creature can plane shift back
            $endgroup$
            – David Coffron
            17 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            I thought that it was unambiguous that plane shift would work for the target of banishment (although obviously if that foundational assumption is wrong then a good answer would address it). So David is correct in his interpretation of my question. The "potentially" in Nathan's quote is only intended to point out that they don't have to do this, but I can see how it might confuse so will try to reword.
            $endgroup$
            – Vigil
            16 hours ago






          • 7




            $begingroup$
            @Vigil I see, so this is more about "are there any unexpected results of those clauses of banishment if the target somehow made it back to their original space on their own (such as via plane shift), or does banishment simply do nothing at that point (i.e. when it ends) because it no longer makes sense"? If that's the case, I still feel as though David's answer could do more to address that, since as it stands it appears just to describe the normal function of banishment under normal circumstances, whereas this is an extraordinary circumstance...
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            15 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @NathanS or, what if the target of Banishment used Plane Shift to teleport to a third plane (neither their home plane nor the plane they were banished from)? If the Banishment spell then failed before a minute was up, it might seem that there would be cause to let the target stay on the third plane, as perhaps Banishment's wouldn't even be expected to extend there.
            $endgroup$
            – Robert Columbia
            14 hours ago
















          • 7




            $begingroup$
            I understood this question differently; I thought the OP meant "if the target of the banishment spell (i.e. say, a genie) casts plane shift to get back to where it was when you banished it, does that work or does the banishment spell somehow block their plane shift spell?"
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            17 hours ago








          • 2




            $begingroup$
            @NathanS it seems like they just want to know what happens when the spell ends. Nowhere do they ask whether the creature can plane shift back
            $endgroup$
            – David Coffron
            17 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            I thought that it was unambiguous that plane shift would work for the target of banishment (although obviously if that foundational assumption is wrong then a good answer would address it). So David is correct in his interpretation of my question. The "potentially" in Nathan's quote is only intended to point out that they don't have to do this, but I can see how it might confuse so will try to reword.
            $endgroup$
            – Vigil
            16 hours ago






          • 7




            $begingroup$
            @Vigil I see, so this is more about "are there any unexpected results of those clauses of banishment if the target somehow made it back to their original space on their own (such as via plane shift), or does banishment simply do nothing at that point (i.e. when it ends) because it no longer makes sense"? If that's the case, I still feel as though David's answer could do more to address that, since as it stands it appears just to describe the normal function of banishment under normal circumstances, whereas this is an extraordinary circumstance...
            $endgroup$
            – NathanS
            15 hours ago






          • 3




            $begingroup$
            @NathanS or, what if the target of Banishment used Plane Shift to teleport to a third plane (neither their home plane nor the plane they were banished from)? If the Banishment spell then failed before a minute was up, it might seem that there would be cause to let the target stay on the third plane, as perhaps Banishment's wouldn't even be expected to extend there.
            $endgroup$
            – Robert Columbia
            14 hours ago










          7




          7




          $begingroup$
          I understood this question differently; I thought the OP meant "if the target of the banishment spell (i.e. say, a genie) casts plane shift to get back to where it was when you banished it, does that work or does the banishment spell somehow block their plane shift spell?"
          $endgroup$
          – NathanS
          17 hours ago






          $begingroup$
          I understood this question differently; I thought the OP meant "if the target of the banishment spell (i.e. say, a genie) casts plane shift to get back to where it was when you banished it, does that work or does the banishment spell somehow block their plane shift spell?"
          $endgroup$
          – NathanS
          17 hours ago






          2




          2




          $begingroup$
          @NathanS it seems like they just want to know what happens when the spell ends. Nowhere do they ask whether the creature can plane shift back
          $endgroup$
          – David Coffron
          17 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @NathanS it seems like they just want to know what happens when the spell ends. Nowhere do they ask whether the creature can plane shift back
          $endgroup$
          – David Coffron
          17 hours ago




          3




          3




          $begingroup$
          I thought that it was unambiguous that plane shift would work for the target of banishment (although obviously if that foundational assumption is wrong then a good answer would address it). So David is correct in his interpretation of my question. The "potentially" in Nathan's quote is only intended to point out that they don't have to do this, but I can see how it might confuse so will try to reword.
          $endgroup$
          – Vigil
          16 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          I thought that it was unambiguous that plane shift would work for the target of banishment (although obviously if that foundational assumption is wrong then a good answer would address it). So David is correct in his interpretation of my question. The "potentially" in Nathan's quote is only intended to point out that they don't have to do this, but I can see how it might confuse so will try to reword.
          $endgroup$
          – Vigil
          16 hours ago




          7




          7




          $begingroup$
          @Vigil I see, so this is more about "are there any unexpected results of those clauses of banishment if the target somehow made it back to their original space on their own (such as via plane shift), or does banishment simply do nothing at that point (i.e. when it ends) because it no longer makes sense"? If that's the case, I still feel as though David's answer could do more to address that, since as it stands it appears just to describe the normal function of banishment under normal circumstances, whereas this is an extraordinary circumstance...
          $endgroup$
          – NathanS
          15 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @Vigil I see, so this is more about "are there any unexpected results of those clauses of banishment if the target somehow made it back to their original space on their own (such as via plane shift), or does banishment simply do nothing at that point (i.e. when it ends) because it no longer makes sense"? If that's the case, I still feel as though David's answer could do more to address that, since as it stands it appears just to describe the normal function of banishment under normal circumstances, whereas this is an extraordinary circumstance...
          $endgroup$
          – NathanS
          15 hours ago




          3




          3




          $begingroup$
          @NathanS or, what if the target of Banishment used Plane Shift to teleport to a third plane (neither their home plane nor the plane they were banished from)? If the Banishment spell then failed before a minute was up, it might seem that there would be cause to let the target stay on the third plane, as perhaps Banishment's wouldn't even be expected to extend there.
          $endgroup$
          – Robert Columbia
          14 hours ago






          $begingroup$
          @NathanS or, what if the target of Banishment used Plane Shift to teleport to a third plane (neither their home plane nor the plane they were banished from)? If the Banishment spell then failed before a minute was up, it might seem that there would be cause to let the target stay on the third plane, as perhaps Banishment's wouldn't even be expected to extend there.
          $endgroup$
          – Robert Columbia
          14 hours ago















          -7












          $begingroup$

          They can't plane shift back.



          The effect of the spell is not merely to send the creature to its plane of origin, but to "banish" it. "Banished" very specifically means forbidden to come back.



          Ongoing spell effects generally end when the spell's duration is up, and banishment doesn't say otherwise, so presumably the creature could plane shift back afterward.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$









          • 4




            $begingroup$
            If it couldn't come back, it would say so. All banishing does is send something away. Could you support in the rules where anything prevents it from returning on its own?
            $endgroup$
            – MarkTO
            8 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Yes: "the target is banished".
            $endgroup$
            – Mark Wells
            8 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            the first and second parts contradict each other
            $endgroup$
            – user50904
            46 mins ago
















          -7












          $begingroup$

          They can't plane shift back.



          The effect of the spell is not merely to send the creature to its plane of origin, but to "banish" it. "Banished" very specifically means forbidden to come back.



          Ongoing spell effects generally end when the spell's duration is up, and banishment doesn't say otherwise, so presumably the creature could plane shift back afterward.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$









          • 4




            $begingroup$
            If it couldn't come back, it would say so. All banishing does is send something away. Could you support in the rules where anything prevents it from returning on its own?
            $endgroup$
            – MarkTO
            8 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Yes: "the target is banished".
            $endgroup$
            – Mark Wells
            8 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            the first and second parts contradict each other
            $endgroup$
            – user50904
            46 mins ago














          -7












          -7








          -7





          $begingroup$

          They can't plane shift back.



          The effect of the spell is not merely to send the creature to its plane of origin, but to "banish" it. "Banished" very specifically means forbidden to come back.



          Ongoing spell effects generally end when the spell's duration is up, and banishment doesn't say otherwise, so presumably the creature could plane shift back afterward.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          They can't plane shift back.



          The effect of the spell is not merely to send the creature to its plane of origin, but to "banish" it. "Banished" very specifically means forbidden to come back.



          Ongoing spell effects generally end when the spell's duration is up, and banishment doesn't say otherwise, so presumably the creature could plane shift back afterward.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 11 hours ago









          Mark WellsMark Wells

          6,55211746




          6,55211746








          • 4




            $begingroup$
            If it couldn't come back, it would say so. All banishing does is send something away. Could you support in the rules where anything prevents it from returning on its own?
            $endgroup$
            – MarkTO
            8 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Yes: "the target is banished".
            $endgroup$
            – Mark Wells
            8 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            the first and second parts contradict each other
            $endgroup$
            – user50904
            46 mins ago














          • 4




            $begingroup$
            If it couldn't come back, it would say so. All banishing does is send something away. Could you support in the rules where anything prevents it from returning on its own?
            $endgroup$
            – MarkTO
            8 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Yes: "the target is banished".
            $endgroup$
            – Mark Wells
            8 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            the first and second parts contradict each other
            $endgroup$
            – user50904
            46 mins ago








          4




          4




          $begingroup$
          If it couldn't come back, it would say so. All banishing does is send something away. Could you support in the rules where anything prevents it from returning on its own?
          $endgroup$
          – MarkTO
          8 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          If it couldn't come back, it would say so. All banishing does is send something away. Could you support in the rules where anything prevents it from returning on its own?
          $endgroup$
          – MarkTO
          8 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          Yes: "the target is banished".
          $endgroup$
          – Mark Wells
          8 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Yes: "the target is banished".
          $endgroup$
          – Mark Wells
          8 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          the first and second parts contradict each other
          $endgroup$
          – user50904
          46 mins ago




          $begingroup$
          the first and second parts contradict each other
          $endgroup$
          – user50904
          46 mins ago


















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