Spelling - why not finanse?












-2















If it is license rather than licence, defense rather than defence, offense rather than offence, then why not finanse?










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  • And conversely, why doesn't British English have rince?

    – Sven Yargs
    Nov 13 '14 at 8:12






  • 1





    Because language isn't predictable.

    – curiousdannii
    Nov 13 '14 at 12:13
















-2















If it is license rather than licence, defense rather than defence, offense rather than offence, then why not finanse?










share|improve this question























  • And conversely, why doesn't British English have rince?

    – Sven Yargs
    Nov 13 '14 at 8:12






  • 1





    Because language isn't predictable.

    – curiousdannii
    Nov 13 '14 at 12:13














-2












-2








-2


1






If it is license rather than licence, defense rather than defence, offense rather than offence, then why not finanse?










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If it is license rather than licence, defense rather than defence, offense rather than offence, then why not finanse?







american-english orthography






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asked Nov 13 '14 at 7:43









Blessed GeekBlessed Geek

8,9501230




8,9501230













  • And conversely, why doesn't British English have rince?

    – Sven Yargs
    Nov 13 '14 at 8:12






  • 1





    Because language isn't predictable.

    – curiousdannii
    Nov 13 '14 at 12:13



















  • And conversely, why doesn't British English have rince?

    – Sven Yargs
    Nov 13 '14 at 8:12






  • 1





    Because language isn't predictable.

    – curiousdannii
    Nov 13 '14 at 12:13

















And conversely, why doesn't British English have rince?

– Sven Yargs
Nov 13 '14 at 8:12





And conversely, why doesn't British English have rince?

– Sven Yargs
Nov 13 '14 at 8:12




1




1





Because language isn't predictable.

– curiousdannii
Nov 13 '14 at 12:13





Because language isn't predictable.

– curiousdannii
Nov 13 '14 at 12:13










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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4














I think it depends on the etymology of each term.
During centuries of separation from Britain,
American English retained the original -se
ending in certain words borrowed from French, while British English modified it to -ce.



finance (n.): was originally spelt with the suffix '-ce '.





  • c.1400, "an end, settlement, retribution," from Old French finance ".




while:



Defence:





  • c.1300, "forbidding, prohibition," also "action of guarding or protecting," from Old French defense.




Licence:





  • ," (12c.), from Latin licentia "freedom, liberty, license," "




Offence:





  • late 14c., "hurt, harm, injury, pain," from Old French ofense




Source: Etymolnine






share|improve this answer
























  • Defense is spelled 'fence' so football fans can make signs consisting of a big D and a picket fence to wave.

    – Oldcat
    Nov 13 '14 at 22:28











  • You'd actually expect "licence" to be spelled with a "c" based on etymology alone. Latin "ti" before another vowel became "c", not "s" in French.

    – sumelic
    Jun 15 '15 at 21:03



















0














There is no reason to expect consistency in the use of the spelling -nse vs. the spelling -nce. The use of -nce vs -nse is partly, but not entirely based on etymology.





  • License comes from Latin licentia, and finance ends in the suffix -ance which comes from Latin -antia (and partly from -entia). Defense and offense come from Latin defensa and offensa/offensus.


Here are the etymologically regular developments:




  • Latin -tia underwent patalatalization and regularly developed to French -ce.


  • Latin -sa(m) regularly developed to French -se.


  • Latin -sus/-sum regularly developed to French -s.



According to Wikipedia, after the "Late Old French (c. 1250–1300)" time period, -nce and -nse would have been pronounced identically in French. This seems to have led to non-etymological use of "c" vs. "s" in this context in Middle French.



The OED says that defense probably comes from "Anglo-Norman defens, deffens, diffence, Anglo-Norman and Middle French defence, deffence, defense, deffense". It says that for some reason, the word could be masculine in Anglo-Norman; that presumably is the reason for the Anglo-Norman forms without a final -e. You can see that variation between -nse and -nce spellings existed in the French etymon of the English word.



Similarly, the OED says offense is partly from "Anglo-Norman and Middle French offense, offence" (and their Latin etymon offensa), and partly from "Anglo-Norman and Middle French offens" (and their Latin etymon offensus).



For license, the -se spelling seems to have arisen partly from analogy in English. Some noun-verb pairs show an alternation between -ce and -se, and this probably contributed to the use of the spelling license for the English verb. And the use of the -se spelling for the verb presumably contributed to or reinforced the use of the -se spelling for the noun.



Finance can also be a verb, but for some reason, -se has not become a recognized variant spelling of this word.






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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes








    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    4














    I think it depends on the etymology of each term.
    During centuries of separation from Britain,
    American English retained the original -se
    ending in certain words borrowed from French, while British English modified it to -ce.



    finance (n.): was originally spelt with the suffix '-ce '.





    • c.1400, "an end, settlement, retribution," from Old French finance ".




    while:



    Defence:





    • c.1300, "forbidding, prohibition," also "action of guarding or protecting," from Old French defense.




    Licence:





    • ," (12c.), from Latin licentia "freedom, liberty, license," "




    Offence:





    • late 14c., "hurt, harm, injury, pain," from Old French ofense




    Source: Etymolnine






    share|improve this answer
























    • Defense is spelled 'fence' so football fans can make signs consisting of a big D and a picket fence to wave.

      – Oldcat
      Nov 13 '14 at 22:28











    • You'd actually expect "licence" to be spelled with a "c" based on etymology alone. Latin "ti" before another vowel became "c", not "s" in French.

      – sumelic
      Jun 15 '15 at 21:03
















    4














    I think it depends on the etymology of each term.
    During centuries of separation from Britain,
    American English retained the original -se
    ending in certain words borrowed from French, while British English modified it to -ce.



    finance (n.): was originally spelt with the suffix '-ce '.





    • c.1400, "an end, settlement, retribution," from Old French finance ".




    while:



    Defence:





    • c.1300, "forbidding, prohibition," also "action of guarding or protecting," from Old French defense.




    Licence:





    • ," (12c.), from Latin licentia "freedom, liberty, license," "




    Offence:





    • late 14c., "hurt, harm, injury, pain," from Old French ofense




    Source: Etymolnine






    share|improve this answer
























    • Defense is spelled 'fence' so football fans can make signs consisting of a big D and a picket fence to wave.

      – Oldcat
      Nov 13 '14 at 22:28











    • You'd actually expect "licence" to be spelled with a "c" based on etymology alone. Latin "ti" before another vowel became "c", not "s" in French.

      – sumelic
      Jun 15 '15 at 21:03














    4












    4








    4







    I think it depends on the etymology of each term.
    During centuries of separation from Britain,
    American English retained the original -se
    ending in certain words borrowed from French, while British English modified it to -ce.



    finance (n.): was originally spelt with the suffix '-ce '.





    • c.1400, "an end, settlement, retribution," from Old French finance ".




    while:



    Defence:





    • c.1300, "forbidding, prohibition," also "action of guarding or protecting," from Old French defense.




    Licence:





    • ," (12c.), from Latin licentia "freedom, liberty, license," "




    Offence:





    • late 14c., "hurt, harm, injury, pain," from Old French ofense




    Source: Etymolnine






    share|improve this answer













    I think it depends on the etymology of each term.
    During centuries of separation from Britain,
    American English retained the original -se
    ending in certain words borrowed from French, while British English modified it to -ce.



    finance (n.): was originally spelt with the suffix '-ce '.





    • c.1400, "an end, settlement, retribution," from Old French finance ".




    while:



    Defence:





    • c.1300, "forbidding, prohibition," also "action of guarding or protecting," from Old French defense.




    Licence:





    • ," (12c.), from Latin licentia "freedom, liberty, license," "




    Offence:





    • late 14c., "hurt, harm, injury, pain," from Old French ofense




    Source: Etymolnine







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered Nov 13 '14 at 8:06







    user66974




















    • Defense is spelled 'fence' so football fans can make signs consisting of a big D and a picket fence to wave.

      – Oldcat
      Nov 13 '14 at 22:28











    • You'd actually expect "licence" to be spelled with a "c" based on etymology alone. Latin "ti" before another vowel became "c", not "s" in French.

      – sumelic
      Jun 15 '15 at 21:03



















    • Defense is spelled 'fence' so football fans can make signs consisting of a big D and a picket fence to wave.

      – Oldcat
      Nov 13 '14 at 22:28











    • You'd actually expect "licence" to be spelled with a "c" based on etymology alone. Latin "ti" before another vowel became "c", not "s" in French.

      – sumelic
      Jun 15 '15 at 21:03

















    Defense is spelled 'fence' so football fans can make signs consisting of a big D and a picket fence to wave.

    – Oldcat
    Nov 13 '14 at 22:28





    Defense is spelled 'fence' so football fans can make signs consisting of a big D and a picket fence to wave.

    – Oldcat
    Nov 13 '14 at 22:28













    You'd actually expect "licence" to be spelled with a "c" based on etymology alone. Latin "ti" before another vowel became "c", not "s" in French.

    – sumelic
    Jun 15 '15 at 21:03





    You'd actually expect "licence" to be spelled with a "c" based on etymology alone. Latin "ti" before another vowel became "c", not "s" in French.

    – sumelic
    Jun 15 '15 at 21:03













    0














    There is no reason to expect consistency in the use of the spelling -nse vs. the spelling -nce. The use of -nce vs -nse is partly, but not entirely based on etymology.





    • License comes from Latin licentia, and finance ends in the suffix -ance which comes from Latin -antia (and partly from -entia). Defense and offense come from Latin defensa and offensa/offensus.


    Here are the etymologically regular developments:




    • Latin -tia underwent patalatalization and regularly developed to French -ce.


    • Latin -sa(m) regularly developed to French -se.


    • Latin -sus/-sum regularly developed to French -s.



    According to Wikipedia, after the "Late Old French (c. 1250–1300)" time period, -nce and -nse would have been pronounced identically in French. This seems to have led to non-etymological use of "c" vs. "s" in this context in Middle French.



    The OED says that defense probably comes from "Anglo-Norman defens, deffens, diffence, Anglo-Norman and Middle French defence, deffence, defense, deffense". It says that for some reason, the word could be masculine in Anglo-Norman; that presumably is the reason for the Anglo-Norman forms without a final -e. You can see that variation between -nse and -nce spellings existed in the French etymon of the English word.



    Similarly, the OED says offense is partly from "Anglo-Norman and Middle French offense, offence" (and their Latin etymon offensa), and partly from "Anglo-Norman and Middle French offens" (and their Latin etymon offensus).



    For license, the -se spelling seems to have arisen partly from analogy in English. Some noun-verb pairs show an alternation between -ce and -se, and this probably contributed to the use of the spelling license for the English verb. And the use of the -se spelling for the verb presumably contributed to or reinforced the use of the -se spelling for the noun.



    Finance can also be a verb, but for some reason, -se has not become a recognized variant spelling of this word.






    share|improve this answer






























      0














      There is no reason to expect consistency in the use of the spelling -nse vs. the spelling -nce. The use of -nce vs -nse is partly, but not entirely based on etymology.





      • License comes from Latin licentia, and finance ends in the suffix -ance which comes from Latin -antia (and partly from -entia). Defense and offense come from Latin defensa and offensa/offensus.


      Here are the etymologically regular developments:




      • Latin -tia underwent patalatalization and regularly developed to French -ce.


      • Latin -sa(m) regularly developed to French -se.


      • Latin -sus/-sum regularly developed to French -s.



      According to Wikipedia, after the "Late Old French (c. 1250–1300)" time period, -nce and -nse would have been pronounced identically in French. This seems to have led to non-etymological use of "c" vs. "s" in this context in Middle French.



      The OED says that defense probably comes from "Anglo-Norman defens, deffens, diffence, Anglo-Norman and Middle French defence, deffence, defense, deffense". It says that for some reason, the word could be masculine in Anglo-Norman; that presumably is the reason for the Anglo-Norman forms without a final -e. You can see that variation between -nse and -nce spellings existed in the French etymon of the English word.



      Similarly, the OED says offense is partly from "Anglo-Norman and Middle French offense, offence" (and their Latin etymon offensa), and partly from "Anglo-Norman and Middle French offens" (and their Latin etymon offensus).



      For license, the -se spelling seems to have arisen partly from analogy in English. Some noun-verb pairs show an alternation between -ce and -se, and this probably contributed to the use of the spelling license for the English verb. And the use of the -se spelling for the verb presumably contributed to or reinforced the use of the -se spelling for the noun.



      Finance can also be a verb, but for some reason, -se has not become a recognized variant spelling of this word.






      share|improve this answer




























        0












        0








        0







        There is no reason to expect consistency in the use of the spelling -nse vs. the spelling -nce. The use of -nce vs -nse is partly, but not entirely based on etymology.





        • License comes from Latin licentia, and finance ends in the suffix -ance which comes from Latin -antia (and partly from -entia). Defense and offense come from Latin defensa and offensa/offensus.


        Here are the etymologically regular developments:




        • Latin -tia underwent patalatalization and regularly developed to French -ce.


        • Latin -sa(m) regularly developed to French -se.


        • Latin -sus/-sum regularly developed to French -s.



        According to Wikipedia, after the "Late Old French (c. 1250–1300)" time period, -nce and -nse would have been pronounced identically in French. This seems to have led to non-etymological use of "c" vs. "s" in this context in Middle French.



        The OED says that defense probably comes from "Anglo-Norman defens, deffens, diffence, Anglo-Norman and Middle French defence, deffence, defense, deffense". It says that for some reason, the word could be masculine in Anglo-Norman; that presumably is the reason for the Anglo-Norman forms without a final -e. You can see that variation between -nse and -nce spellings existed in the French etymon of the English word.



        Similarly, the OED says offense is partly from "Anglo-Norman and Middle French offense, offence" (and their Latin etymon offensa), and partly from "Anglo-Norman and Middle French offens" (and their Latin etymon offensus).



        For license, the -se spelling seems to have arisen partly from analogy in English. Some noun-verb pairs show an alternation between -ce and -se, and this probably contributed to the use of the spelling license for the English verb. And the use of the -se spelling for the verb presumably contributed to or reinforced the use of the -se spelling for the noun.



        Finance can also be a verb, but for some reason, -se has not become a recognized variant spelling of this word.






        share|improve this answer















        There is no reason to expect consistency in the use of the spelling -nse vs. the spelling -nce. The use of -nce vs -nse is partly, but not entirely based on etymology.





        • License comes from Latin licentia, and finance ends in the suffix -ance which comes from Latin -antia (and partly from -entia). Defense and offense come from Latin defensa and offensa/offensus.


        Here are the etymologically regular developments:




        • Latin -tia underwent patalatalization and regularly developed to French -ce.


        • Latin -sa(m) regularly developed to French -se.


        • Latin -sus/-sum regularly developed to French -s.



        According to Wikipedia, after the "Late Old French (c. 1250–1300)" time period, -nce and -nse would have been pronounced identically in French. This seems to have led to non-etymological use of "c" vs. "s" in this context in Middle French.



        The OED says that defense probably comes from "Anglo-Norman defens, deffens, diffence, Anglo-Norman and Middle French defence, deffence, defense, deffense". It says that for some reason, the word could be masculine in Anglo-Norman; that presumably is the reason for the Anglo-Norman forms without a final -e. You can see that variation between -nse and -nce spellings existed in the French etymon of the English word.



        Similarly, the OED says offense is partly from "Anglo-Norman and Middle French offense, offence" (and their Latin etymon offensa), and partly from "Anglo-Norman and Middle French offens" (and their Latin etymon offensus).



        For license, the -se spelling seems to have arisen partly from analogy in English. Some noun-verb pairs show an alternation between -ce and -se, and this probably contributed to the use of the spelling license for the English verb. And the use of the -se spelling for the verb presumably contributed to or reinforced the use of the -se spelling for the noun.



        Finance can also be a verb, but for some reason, -se has not become a recognized variant spelling of this word.







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        edited 6 mins ago

























        answered 15 mins ago









        sumelicsumelic

        48.7k8114220




        48.7k8114220






























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