Different etymologies for spoken and written forms
I know a word in another language which appears at first to have a highly irregular spelling that does not match the pronunciation. However, further examination suggests that the spoken and written forms have different - and unrelated - etymologies. Are there any examples of this in English?
Note that I have decided not to post my example from the other language at this stage in case it distracts.
etymology orthography history pronunciation-vs-spelling historical-change
asked Mar 30 at 22:57
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,646216
add a comment |
I know a word in another language which appears at first to have a highly irregular spelling that does not match the pronunciation. However, further examination suggests that the spoken and written forms have different - and unrelated - etymologies. Are there any examples of this in English?
Note that I have decided not to post my example from the other language at this stage in case it distracts.
etymology orthography history pronunciation-vs-spelling historical-change
asked Mar 30 at 22:57
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,646216
It's certainly plausible that a certain English word might have, eg, a French-based pronunciation and a German-based spelling. Nothing remarkable, given the way English has stolen from every other language on the planet.
– Hot Licks
Mar 30 at 23:04
@HotLicks I guess there are lots of examples like that. I presume you are talking about French and German cognates of the same word, where the Anglo-Saxon population might not have updated their pronunciation when the Normans introduced their spellings for words they recognized as Norman French. Examples of that would be interesting as I do not actually know of any specific examples. But I was really thinking of examples where the forms come from words that are not cognate. So examples of either type would be appreciated.
– David Robinson
2 days ago
I am distracted by the absence of your foreign language example. Usually written forms are used for etymological study if it's a language with a long history of writing.
– jlovegren
2 days ago
Yes, @jlovegren, you are right. But they only use written forms because it is usually all they have. The usual assumption amongst linguists is that it is the spoken form which is the primary form, in which change occurs and that the written form is just a copy. I accept that this was the case, but I am sure it became less so when literacy became widespread. And now that younger people seem to have given up talking and text instead, I am hearing more and more forms that suggest the spoken form is beginning to copy the written form. And by the way, I never said it was a foreign language!
– David Robinson
2 days ago
add a comment |
I know a word in another language which appears at first to have a highly irregular spelling that does not match the pronunciation. However, further examination suggests that the spoken and written forms have different - and unrelated - etymologies. Are there any examples of this in English?
Note that I have decided not to post my example from the other language at this stage in case it distracts.
etymology orthography history pronunciation-vs-spelling historical-change
asked Mar 30 at 22:57
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,646216
I know a word in another language which appears at first to have a highly irregular spelling that does not match the pronunciation. However, further examination suggests that the spoken and written forms have different - and unrelated - etymologies. Are there any examples of this in English?
Note that I have decided not to post my example from the other language at this stage in case it distracts.
etymology orthography history pronunciation-vs-spelling historical-change
etymology orthography history pronunciation-vs-spelling historical-change
asked Mar 30 at 22:57
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,646216
asked Mar 30 at 22:57
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,646216
asked Mar 30 at 22:57
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,646216
asked Mar 30 at 22:57
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,646216
asked Mar 30 at 22:57
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,646216
2,646216
It's certainly plausible that a certain English word might have, eg, a French-based pronunciation and a German-based spelling. Nothing remarkable, given the way English has stolen from every other language on the planet.
– Hot Licks
Mar 30 at 23:04
@HotLicks I guess there are lots of examples like that. I presume you are talking about French and German cognates of the same word, where the Anglo-Saxon population might not have updated their pronunciation when the Normans introduced their spellings for words they recognized as Norman French. Examples of that would be interesting as I do not actually know of any specific examples. But I was really thinking of examples where the forms come from words that are not cognate. So examples of either type would be appreciated.
– David Robinson
2 days ago
I am distracted by the absence of your foreign language example. Usually written forms are used for etymological study if it's a language with a long history of writing.
– jlovegren
2 days ago
Yes, @jlovegren, you are right. But they only use written forms because it is usually all they have. The usual assumption amongst linguists is that it is the spoken form which is the primary form, in which change occurs and that the written form is just a copy. I accept that this was the case, but I am sure it became less so when literacy became widespread. And now that younger people seem to have given up talking and text instead, I am hearing more and more forms that suggest the spoken form is beginning to copy the written form. And by the way, I never said it was a foreign language!
– David Robinson
2 days ago
add a comment |
It's certainly plausible that a certain English word might have, eg, a French-based pronunciation and a German-based spelling. Nothing remarkable, given the way English has stolen from every other language on the planet.
– Hot Licks
Mar 30 at 23:04
@HotLicks I guess there are lots of examples like that. I presume you are talking about French and German cognates of the same word, where the Anglo-Saxon population might not have updated their pronunciation when the Normans introduced their spellings for words they recognized as Norman French. Examples of that would be interesting as I do not actually know of any specific examples. But I was really thinking of examples where the forms come from words that are not cognate. So examples of either type would be appreciated.
– David Robinson
2 days ago
I am distracted by the absence of your foreign language example. Usually written forms are used for etymological study if it's a language with a long history of writing.
– jlovegren
2 days ago
Yes, @jlovegren, you are right. But they only use written forms because it is usually all they have. The usual assumption amongst linguists is that it is the spoken form which is the primary form, in which change occurs and that the written form is just a copy. I accept that this was the case, but I am sure it became less so when literacy became widespread. And now that younger people seem to have given up talking and text instead, I am hearing more and more forms that suggest the spoken form is beginning to copy the written form. And by the way, I never said it was a foreign language!
– David Robinson
2 days ago
It's certainly plausible that a certain English word might have, eg, a French-based pronunciation and a German-based spelling. Nothing remarkable, given the way English has stolen from every other language on the planet.
– Hot Licks
Mar 30 at 23:04
It's certainly plausible that a certain English word might have, eg, a French-based pronunciation and a German-based spelling. Nothing remarkable, given the way English has stolen from every other language on the planet.
– Hot Licks
Mar 30 at 23:04
@HotLicks I guess there are lots of examples like that. I presume you are talking about French and German cognates of the same word, where the Anglo-Saxon population might not have updated their pronunciation when the Normans introduced their spellings for words they recognized as Norman French. Examples of that would be interesting as I do not actually know of any specific examples. But I was really thinking of examples where the forms come from words that are not cognate. So examples of either type would be appreciated.
– David Robinson
2 days ago
@HotLicks I guess there are lots of examples like that. I presume you are talking about French and German cognates of the same word, where the Anglo-Saxon population might not have updated their pronunciation when the Normans introduced their spellings for words they recognized as Norman French. Examples of that would be interesting as I do not actually know of any specific examples. But I was really thinking of examples where the forms come from words that are not cognate. So examples of either type would be appreciated.
– David Robinson
2 days ago
I am distracted by the absence of your foreign language example. Usually written forms are used for etymological study if it's a language with a long history of writing.
– jlovegren
2 days ago
I am distracted by the absence of your foreign language example. Usually written forms are used for etymological study if it's a language with a long history of writing.
– jlovegren
2 days ago
Yes, @jlovegren, you are right. But they only use written forms because it is usually all they have. The usual assumption amongst linguists is that it is the spoken form which is the primary form, in which change occurs and that the written form is just a copy. I accept that this was the case, but I am sure it became less so when literacy became widespread. And now that younger people seem to have given up talking and text instead, I am hearing more and more forms that suggest the spoken form is beginning to copy the written form. And by the way, I never said it was a foreign language!
– David Robinson
2 days ago
Yes, @jlovegren, you are right. But they only use written forms because it is usually all they have. The usual assumption amongst linguists is that it is the spoken form which is the primary form, in which change occurs and that the written form is just a copy. I accept that this was the case, but I am sure it became less so when literacy became widespread. And now that younger people seem to have given up talking and text instead, I am hearing more and more forms that suggest the spoken form is beginning to copy the written form. And by the way, I never said it was a foreign language!
– David Robinson
2 days ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
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This isn't quite what you're looking for, but it's close.
The word island comes to us from the old English word iegland, which became yland in Middle English. Note that there is no "s" in it. The "s" was added by mistake.
The "s" in the spelling comes from confusion with the unrelated word isle. This was ile in Middle English, from Old French ile, from Latin insula. This word had an "s" added in the 16th century
because there had been one in Latin.
answered 2 days ago
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.1k5122229
That is an interesting example. It matches the example I was thinking of in that the words have some morphological similarity which appears to have led to confusion. But it contrasts because the words were synonyms, whereas my example they have clearly different meanings which are used in the same context.
– David Robinson
2 days ago
add a comment |
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This isn't quite what you're looking for, but it's close.
The word island comes to us from the old English word iegland, which became yland in Middle English. Note that there is no "s" in it. The "s" was added by mistake.
The "s" in the spelling comes from confusion with the unrelated word isle. This was ile in Middle English, from Old French ile, from Latin insula. This word had an "s" added in the 16th century
because there had been one in Latin.
answered 2 days ago
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.1k5122229
That is an interesting example. It matches the example I was thinking of in that the words have some morphological similarity which appears to have led to confusion. But it contrasts because the words were synonyms, whereas my example they have clearly different meanings which are used in the same context.
– David Robinson
2 days ago
add a comment |
This isn't quite what you're looking for, but it's close.
The word island comes to us from the old English word iegland, which became yland in Middle English. Note that there is no "s" in it. The "s" was added by mistake.
The "s" in the spelling comes from confusion with the unrelated word isle. This was ile in Middle English, from Old French ile, from Latin insula. This word had an "s" added in the 16th century
because there had been one in Latin.
answered 2 days ago
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.1k5122229
That is an interesting example. It matches the example I was thinking of in that the words have some morphological similarity which appears to have led to confusion. But it contrasts because the words were synonyms, whereas my example they have clearly different meanings which are used in the same context.
– David Robinson
2 days ago
add a comment |
This isn't quite what you're looking for, but it's close.
The word island comes to us from the old English word iegland, which became yland in Middle English. Note that there is no "s" in it. The "s" was added by mistake.
The "s" in the spelling comes from confusion with the unrelated word isle. This was ile in Middle English, from Old French ile, from Latin insula. This word had an "s" added in the 16th century
because there had been one in Latin.
answered 2 days ago
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.1k5122229
This isn't quite what you're looking for, but it's close.
The word island comes to us from the old English word iegland, which became yland in Middle English. Note that there is no "s" in it. The "s" was added by mistake.
The "s" in the spelling comes from confusion with the unrelated word isle. This was ile in Middle English, from Old French ile, from Latin insula. This word had an "s" added in the 16th century
because there had been one in Latin.
answered 2 days ago
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.1k5122229
answered 2 days ago
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.1k5122229
answered 2 days ago
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.1k5122229
answered 2 days ago
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.1k5122229
63.1k5122229
That is an interesting example. It matches the example I was thinking of in that the words have some morphological similarity which appears to have led to confusion. But it contrasts because the words were synonyms, whereas my example they have clearly different meanings which are used in the same context.
– David Robinson
2 days ago
add a comment |
That is an interesting example. It matches the example I was thinking of in that the words have some morphological similarity which appears to have led to confusion. But it contrasts because the words were synonyms, whereas my example they have clearly different meanings which are used in the same context.
– David Robinson
2 days ago
That is an interesting example. It matches the example I was thinking of in that the words have some morphological similarity which appears to have led to confusion. But it contrasts because the words were synonyms, whereas my example they have clearly different meanings which are used in the same context.
– David Robinson
2 days ago
That is an interesting example. It matches the example I was thinking of in that the words have some morphological similarity which appears to have led to confusion. But it contrasts because the words were synonyms, whereas my example they have clearly different meanings which are used in the same context.
– David Robinson
2 days ago
add a comment |
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It's certainly plausible that a certain English word might have, eg, a French-based pronunciation and a German-based spelling. Nothing remarkable, given the way English has stolen from every other language on the planet.
– Hot Licks
Mar 30 at 23:04
@HotLicks I guess there are lots of examples like that. I presume you are talking about French and German cognates of the same word, where the Anglo-Saxon population might not have updated their pronunciation when the Normans introduced their spellings for words they recognized as Norman French. Examples of that would be interesting as I do not actually know of any specific examples. But I was really thinking of examples where the forms come from words that are not cognate. So examples of either type would be appreciated.
– David Robinson
2 days ago
I am distracted by the absence of your foreign language example. Usually written forms are used for etymological study if it's a language with a long history of writing.
– jlovegren
2 days ago
Yes, @jlovegren, you are right. But they only use written forms because it is usually all they have. The usual assumption amongst linguists is that it is the spoken form which is the primary form, in which change occurs and that the written form is just a copy. I accept that this was the case, but I am sure it became less so when literacy became widespread. And now that younger people seem to have given up talking and text instead, I am hearing more and more forms that suggest the spoken form is beginning to copy the written form. And by the way, I never said it was a foreign language!
– David Robinson
2 days ago