First of these's?
Say a list of things has already been mentioned.
How do I refer to an attribute of the first thing in said list?
- "The first-of-these's attribute"
- "The first's attribute"
edit: thanks for the unexplained downvotes, really helpful(!)
possessives
asked 2 days ago
jezmckjezmck
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Say a list of things has already been mentioned.
How do I refer to an attribute of the first thing in said list?
- "The first-of-these's attribute"
- "The first's attribute"
edit: thanks for the unexplained downvotes, really helpful(!)
possessives
asked 2 days ago
jezmckjezmck
1095
New contributor
jezmck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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3
Is there some reason you've discarded the first attribute or the first one’s attribute?
– tchrist♦
2 days ago
Just use the name of the first list item again rather than jump through hoops to avoid it. Or use its position: item number one’s attribute.
– Jim
yesterday
There is no such word as "these's".
– TrevorD
yesterday
add a comment |
Say a list of things has already been mentioned.
How do I refer to an attribute of the first thing in said list?
- "The first-of-these's attribute"
- "The first's attribute"
edit: thanks for the unexplained downvotes, really helpful(!)
possessives
asked 2 days ago
jezmckjezmck
1095
New contributor
jezmck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Say a list of things has already been mentioned.
How do I refer to an attribute of the first thing in said list?
- "The first-of-these's attribute"
- "The first's attribute"
edit: thanks for the unexplained downvotes, really helpful(!)
possessives
possessives
asked 2 days ago
jezmckjezmck
1095
New contributor
jezmck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 days ago
jezmckjezmck
1095
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edited yesterday
jezmck
asked 2 days ago
jezmckjezmck
1095
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asked 2 days ago
jezmckjezmck
1095
asked 2 days ago
jezmckjezmck
1095
1095
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New contributor
jezmck is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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3
Is there some reason you've discarded the first attribute or the first one’s attribute?
– tchrist♦
2 days ago
Just use the name of the first list item again rather than jump through hoops to avoid it. Or use its position: item number one’s attribute.
– Jim
yesterday
There is no such word as "these's".
– TrevorD
yesterday
add a comment |
3
Is there some reason you've discarded the first attribute or the first one’s attribute?
– tchrist♦
2 days ago
Just use the name of the first list item again rather than jump through hoops to avoid it. Or use its position: item number one’s attribute.
– Jim
yesterday
There is no such word as "these's".
– TrevorD
yesterday
3
3
Is there some reason you've discarded the first attribute or the first one’s attribute?
– tchrist♦
2 days ago
Is there some reason you've discarded the first attribute or the first one’s attribute?
– tchrist♦
2 days ago
Just use the name of the first list item again rather than jump through hoops to avoid it. Or use its position: item number one’s attribute.
– Jim
yesterday
Just use the name of the first list item again rather than jump through hoops to avoid it. Or use its position: item number one’s attribute.
– Jim
yesterday
There is no such word as "these's".
– TrevorD
yesterday
There is no such word as "these's".
– TrevorD
yesterday
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
You are describing an attribute of the listed item. It's position in the list is secondary to the attribute.
"The/An attribute of the first of those listed."
or
"The [attribute name] of the first of these."
If they are distinct things in the list then the attribute's position will be clear.
"Of the bird, the mule and the horse the color of the wings is the most important."
answered 2 days ago
ElliotElliot
171
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Elliot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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add a comment |
This seems to be a pertinent question as I haven't seen this discussed in any grammar or on this site.
When the noun phrase ends with a noun we are quite happy to put an 's on the end. This is often described in grammars as the "King of Spain's daughter" or some similar phrase and is discussed on SE here. However, since the 's can only be added to a noun, we struggle when the phrase ends in a word that cannot be a noun:
the first of these's
the last there was's
I said "cannot be a noun" not "is not a noun" because it is is OK to use a word that can be a noun, even if it is not a noun in the context
Henry the Eighth's
You just have to find another way to say it
the first's attribute
of these, the first's attribute
the attribute of the first of these
answered yesterday
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,587216
‘I want to see the first one who gets here’s hat.’ :) The ’s can be added to any noun phrase whether that ends in a noun or not. That doesn’t mean it won’t send a shiver up your spine. ‘The person who’s running’s only choice is to throw everything they’ve got into it. The person running’s best option is to quit now. Whoever called in’s number was recorded in our logs.’
– tchrist♦
yesterday
But pronouns — especially personal pronouns — feel pretty awful: Ì don't like the person who called you’s tone.’ Those rankle worse than the others, at least for me, like in our famous my wife and I’s seafood dinner question. My hunch is that this discomfort stems from our assimilated instinct that personal pronouns alone retain distinct morphological case inflections without requiring the clitic: I, me, mine, my. So adding the clitic to one instead of using its special case inflection feels weird even though it makes logical sense because the clitic is for the entire noun phrase.
– tchrist♦
yesterday
Thank you for your excellent examples with different parts of speech @tchrist. I think you are right that there is a scale of rankleness. I have given the situations where no one can reasonably complain (in my view) and I don't think there will be too much complaint with adjectives. After that it just depends on how much rankle you can put up with. I also think that these's is particularly rankly because these ends with a sibilant and that causes extra rankle with possessives.
– David Robinson
yesterday
And I agree with your second comment completely but I was struggling to express it, @tchrist.
– David Robinson
yesterday
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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You are describing an attribute of the listed item. It's position in the list is secondary to the attribute.
"The/An attribute of the first of those listed."
or
"The [attribute name] of the first of these."
If they are distinct things in the list then the attribute's position will be clear.
"Of the bird, the mule and the horse the color of the wings is the most important."
answered 2 days ago
ElliotElliot
171
New contributor
Elliot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
You are describing an attribute of the listed item. It's position in the list is secondary to the attribute.
"The/An attribute of the first of those listed."
or
"The [attribute name] of the first of these."
If they are distinct things in the list then the attribute's position will be clear.
"Of the bird, the mule and the horse the color of the wings is the most important."
answered 2 days ago
ElliotElliot
171
New contributor
Elliot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
You are describing an attribute of the listed item. It's position in the list is secondary to the attribute.
"The/An attribute of the first of those listed."
or
"The [attribute name] of the first of these."
If they are distinct things in the list then the attribute's position will be clear.
"Of the bird, the mule and the horse the color of the wings is the most important."
answered 2 days ago
ElliotElliot
171
New contributor
Elliot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
You are describing an attribute of the listed item. It's position in the list is secondary to the attribute.
"The/An attribute of the first of those listed."
or
"The [attribute name] of the first of these."
If they are distinct things in the list then the attribute's position will be clear.
"Of the bird, the mule and the horse the color of the wings is the most important."
answered 2 days ago
ElliotElliot
171
New contributor
Elliot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 2 days ago
ElliotElliot
171
New contributor
Elliot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered 2 days ago
ElliotElliot
171
answered 2 days ago
ElliotElliot
171
171
New contributor
Elliot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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New contributor
Elliot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Elliot is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
add a comment |
add a comment |
This seems to be a pertinent question as I haven't seen this discussed in any grammar or on this site.
When the noun phrase ends with a noun we are quite happy to put an 's on the end. This is often described in grammars as the "King of Spain's daughter" or some similar phrase and is discussed on SE here. However, since the 's can only be added to a noun, we struggle when the phrase ends in a word that cannot be a noun:
the first of these's
the last there was's
I said "cannot be a noun" not "is not a noun" because it is is OK to use a word that can be a noun, even if it is not a noun in the context
Henry the Eighth's
You just have to find another way to say it
the first's attribute
of these, the first's attribute
the attribute of the first of these
answered yesterday
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,587216
‘I want to see the first one who gets here’s hat.’ :) The ’s can be added to any noun phrase whether that ends in a noun or not. That doesn’t mean it won’t send a shiver up your spine. ‘The person who’s running’s only choice is to throw everything they’ve got into it. The person running’s best option is to quit now. Whoever called in’s number was recorded in our logs.’
– tchrist♦
yesterday
But pronouns — especially personal pronouns — feel pretty awful: Ì don't like the person who called you’s tone.’ Those rankle worse than the others, at least for me, like in our famous my wife and I’s seafood dinner question. My hunch is that this discomfort stems from our assimilated instinct that personal pronouns alone retain distinct morphological case inflections without requiring the clitic: I, me, mine, my. So adding the clitic to one instead of using its special case inflection feels weird even though it makes logical sense because the clitic is for the entire noun phrase.
– tchrist♦
yesterday
Thank you for your excellent examples with different parts of speech @tchrist. I think you are right that there is a scale of rankleness. I have given the situations where no one can reasonably complain (in my view) and I don't think there will be too much complaint with adjectives. After that it just depends on how much rankle you can put up with. I also think that these's is particularly rankly because these ends with a sibilant and that causes extra rankle with possessives.
– David Robinson
yesterday
And I agree with your second comment completely but I was struggling to express it, @tchrist.
– David Robinson
yesterday
add a comment |
This seems to be a pertinent question as I haven't seen this discussed in any grammar or on this site.
When the noun phrase ends with a noun we are quite happy to put an 's on the end. This is often described in grammars as the "King of Spain's daughter" or some similar phrase and is discussed on SE here. However, since the 's can only be added to a noun, we struggle when the phrase ends in a word that cannot be a noun:
the first of these's
the last there was's
I said "cannot be a noun" not "is not a noun" because it is is OK to use a word that can be a noun, even if it is not a noun in the context
Henry the Eighth's
You just have to find another way to say it
the first's attribute
of these, the first's attribute
the attribute of the first of these
answered yesterday
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,587216
‘I want to see the first one who gets here’s hat.’ :) The ’s can be added to any noun phrase whether that ends in a noun or not. That doesn’t mean it won’t send a shiver up your spine. ‘The person who’s running’s only choice is to throw everything they’ve got into it. The person running’s best option is to quit now. Whoever called in’s number was recorded in our logs.’
– tchrist♦
yesterday
But pronouns — especially personal pronouns — feel pretty awful: Ì don't like the person who called you’s tone.’ Those rankle worse than the others, at least for me, like in our famous my wife and I’s seafood dinner question. My hunch is that this discomfort stems from our assimilated instinct that personal pronouns alone retain distinct morphological case inflections without requiring the clitic: I, me, mine, my. So adding the clitic to one instead of using its special case inflection feels weird even though it makes logical sense because the clitic is for the entire noun phrase.
– tchrist♦
yesterday
Thank you for your excellent examples with different parts of speech @tchrist. I think you are right that there is a scale of rankleness. I have given the situations where no one can reasonably complain (in my view) and I don't think there will be too much complaint with adjectives. After that it just depends on how much rankle you can put up with. I also think that these's is particularly rankly because these ends with a sibilant and that causes extra rankle with possessives.
– David Robinson
yesterday
And I agree with your second comment completely but I was struggling to express it, @tchrist.
– David Robinson
yesterday
add a comment |
This seems to be a pertinent question as I haven't seen this discussed in any grammar or on this site.
When the noun phrase ends with a noun we are quite happy to put an 's on the end. This is often described in grammars as the "King of Spain's daughter" or some similar phrase and is discussed on SE here. However, since the 's can only be added to a noun, we struggle when the phrase ends in a word that cannot be a noun:
the first of these's
the last there was's
I said "cannot be a noun" not "is not a noun" because it is is OK to use a word that can be a noun, even if it is not a noun in the context
Henry the Eighth's
You just have to find another way to say it
the first's attribute
of these, the first's attribute
the attribute of the first of these
answered yesterday
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,587216
This seems to be a pertinent question as I haven't seen this discussed in any grammar or on this site.
When the noun phrase ends with a noun we are quite happy to put an 's on the end. This is often described in grammars as the "King of Spain's daughter" or some similar phrase and is discussed on SE here. However, since the 's can only be added to a noun, we struggle when the phrase ends in a word that cannot be a noun:
the first of these's
the last there was's
I said "cannot be a noun" not "is not a noun" because it is is OK to use a word that can be a noun, even if it is not a noun in the context
Henry the Eighth's
You just have to find another way to say it
the first's attribute
of these, the first's attribute
the attribute of the first of these
answered yesterday
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,587216
answered yesterday
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,587216
answered yesterday
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,587216
answered yesterday
David RobinsonDavid Robinson
2,587216
2,587216
‘I want to see the first one who gets here’s hat.’ :) The ’s can be added to any noun phrase whether that ends in a noun or not. That doesn’t mean it won’t send a shiver up your spine. ‘The person who’s running’s only choice is to throw everything they’ve got into it. The person running’s best option is to quit now. Whoever called in’s number was recorded in our logs.’
– tchrist♦
yesterday
But pronouns — especially personal pronouns — feel pretty awful: Ì don't like the person who called you’s tone.’ Those rankle worse than the others, at least for me, like in our famous my wife and I’s seafood dinner question. My hunch is that this discomfort stems from our assimilated instinct that personal pronouns alone retain distinct morphological case inflections without requiring the clitic: I, me, mine, my. So adding the clitic to one instead of using its special case inflection feels weird even though it makes logical sense because the clitic is for the entire noun phrase.
– tchrist♦
yesterday
Thank you for your excellent examples with different parts of speech @tchrist. I think you are right that there is a scale of rankleness. I have given the situations where no one can reasonably complain (in my view) and I don't think there will be too much complaint with adjectives. After that it just depends on how much rankle you can put up with. I also think that these's is particularly rankly because these ends with a sibilant and that causes extra rankle with possessives.
– David Robinson
yesterday
And I agree with your second comment completely but I was struggling to express it, @tchrist.
– David Robinson
yesterday
add a comment |
‘I want to see the first one who gets here’s hat.’ :) The ’s can be added to any noun phrase whether that ends in a noun or not. That doesn’t mean it won’t send a shiver up your spine. ‘The person who’s running’s only choice is to throw everything they’ve got into it. The person running’s best option is to quit now. Whoever called in’s number was recorded in our logs.’
– tchrist♦
yesterday
But pronouns — especially personal pronouns — feel pretty awful: Ì don't like the person who called you’s tone.’ Those rankle worse than the others, at least for me, like in our famous my wife and I’s seafood dinner question. My hunch is that this discomfort stems from our assimilated instinct that personal pronouns alone retain distinct morphological case inflections without requiring the clitic: I, me, mine, my. So adding the clitic to one instead of using its special case inflection feels weird even though it makes logical sense because the clitic is for the entire noun phrase.
– tchrist♦
yesterday
Thank you for your excellent examples with different parts of speech @tchrist. I think you are right that there is a scale of rankleness. I have given the situations where no one can reasonably complain (in my view) and I don't think there will be too much complaint with adjectives. After that it just depends on how much rankle you can put up with. I also think that these's is particularly rankly because these ends with a sibilant and that causes extra rankle with possessives.
– David Robinson
yesterday
And I agree with your second comment completely but I was struggling to express it, @tchrist.
– David Robinson
yesterday
‘I want to see the first one who gets here’s hat.’ :) The ’s can be added to any noun phrase whether that ends in a noun or not. That doesn’t mean it won’t send a shiver up your spine. ‘The person who’s running’s only choice is to throw everything they’ve got into it. The person running’s best option is to quit now. Whoever called in’s number was recorded in our logs.’
– tchrist♦
yesterday
‘I want to see the first one who gets here’s hat.’ :) The ’s can be added to any noun phrase whether that ends in a noun or not. That doesn’t mean it won’t send a shiver up your spine. ‘The person who’s running’s only choice is to throw everything they’ve got into it. The person running’s best option is to quit now. Whoever called in’s number was recorded in our logs.’
– tchrist♦
yesterday
But pronouns — especially personal pronouns — feel pretty awful: Ì don't like the person who called you’s tone.’ Those rankle worse than the others, at least for me, like in our famous my wife and I’s seafood dinner question. My hunch is that this discomfort stems from our assimilated instinct that personal pronouns alone retain distinct morphological case inflections without requiring the clitic: I, me, mine, my. So adding the clitic to one instead of using its special case inflection feels weird even though it makes logical sense because the clitic is for the entire noun phrase.
– tchrist♦
yesterday
But pronouns — especially personal pronouns — feel pretty awful: Ì don't like the person who called you’s tone.’ Those rankle worse than the others, at least for me, like in our famous my wife and I’s seafood dinner question. My hunch is that this discomfort stems from our assimilated instinct that personal pronouns alone retain distinct morphological case inflections without requiring the clitic: I, me, mine, my. So adding the clitic to one instead of using its special case inflection feels weird even though it makes logical sense because the clitic is for the entire noun phrase.
– tchrist♦
yesterday
Thank you for your excellent examples with different parts of speech @tchrist. I think you are right that there is a scale of rankleness. I have given the situations where no one can reasonably complain (in my view) and I don't think there will be too much complaint with adjectives. After that it just depends on how much rankle you can put up with. I also think that these's is particularly rankly because these ends with a sibilant and that causes extra rankle with possessives.
– David Robinson
yesterday
Thank you for your excellent examples with different parts of speech @tchrist. I think you are right that there is a scale of rankleness. I have given the situations where no one can reasonably complain (in my view) and I don't think there will be too much complaint with adjectives. After that it just depends on how much rankle you can put up with. I also think that these's is particularly rankly because these ends with a sibilant and that causes extra rankle with possessives.
– David Robinson
yesterday
And I agree with your second comment completely but I was struggling to express it, @tchrist.
– David Robinson
yesterday
And I agree with your second comment completely but I was struggling to express it, @tchrist.
– David Robinson
yesterday
add a comment |
jezmck is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
jezmck is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
jezmck is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
jezmck is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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3
Is there some reason you've discarded the first attribute or the first one’s attribute?
– tchrist♦
2 days ago
Just use the name of the first list item again rather than jump through hoops to avoid it. Or use its position: item number one’s attribute.
– Jim
yesterday
There is no such word as "these's".
– TrevorD
yesterday