Could transporting electricity using plastic water pipes be feasible?





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Normally a household is connected with 3 different connections:




  • Waterpipes

  • Electric cables

  • Internet fiber


Water conducts electricity (and can also transport light), why aren't we transporting electricity using plastic water pipes instead of using copper cables?



If you somehow could use water for optical internet, that'd be a 3-in-1 solution.










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  • 2




    $begingroup$
    In the UK, certainly, it's far more normal to have a gas supply pipe and a copper telephone line than an Internet fiber.
    $endgroup$
    – Finbarr
    yesterday








  • 17




    $begingroup$
    You want the water coming in to your house electrified? Yikes!
    $endgroup$
    – evildemonic
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    It would be far more efficient to utilize the water flow to drive a turbine to locally generate the power. The pumps that pressurize the water system would need more electricity to run, and the losses would be the friction / flow restriction in the pipes as well as the efficiency of converting electricity to and from kinetic energy.
    $endgroup$
    – Aaron
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @evildemonic yikes - or shocking? ;)
    $endgroup$
    – UKMonkey
    14 hours ago


















0












$begingroup$


Normally a household is connected with 3 different connections:




  • Waterpipes

  • Electric cables

  • Internet fiber


Water conducts electricity (and can also transport light), why aren't we transporting electricity using plastic water pipes instead of using copper cables?



If you somehow could use water for optical internet, that'd be a 3-in-1 solution.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Mikael Dúi Bolinder is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    In the UK, certainly, it's far more normal to have a gas supply pipe and a copper telephone line than an Internet fiber.
    $endgroup$
    – Finbarr
    yesterday








  • 17




    $begingroup$
    You want the water coming in to your house electrified? Yikes!
    $endgroup$
    – evildemonic
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    It would be far more efficient to utilize the water flow to drive a turbine to locally generate the power. The pumps that pressurize the water system would need more electricity to run, and the losses would be the friction / flow restriction in the pipes as well as the efficiency of converting electricity to and from kinetic energy.
    $endgroup$
    – Aaron
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @evildemonic yikes - or shocking? ;)
    $endgroup$
    – UKMonkey
    14 hours ago














0












0








0





$begingroup$


Normally a household is connected with 3 different connections:




  • Waterpipes

  • Electric cables

  • Internet fiber


Water conducts electricity (and can also transport light), why aren't we transporting electricity using plastic water pipes instead of using copper cables?



If you somehow could use water for optical internet, that'd be a 3-in-1 solution.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Mikael Dúi Bolinder is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




Normally a household is connected with 3 different connections:




  • Waterpipes

  • Electric cables

  • Internet fiber


Water conducts electricity (and can also transport light), why aren't we transporting electricity using plastic water pipes instead of using copper cables?



If you somehow could use water for optical internet, that'd be a 3-in-1 solution.







electricity






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New contributor




Mikael Dúi Bolinder is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









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share|improve this question








edited yesterday









Roijan Eskor

1032




1032






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asked yesterday









Mikael Dúi BolinderMikael Dúi Bolinder

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New contributor





Mikael Dúi Bolinder is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    In the UK, certainly, it's far more normal to have a gas supply pipe and a copper telephone line than an Internet fiber.
    $endgroup$
    – Finbarr
    yesterday








  • 17




    $begingroup$
    You want the water coming in to your house electrified? Yikes!
    $endgroup$
    – evildemonic
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    It would be far more efficient to utilize the water flow to drive a turbine to locally generate the power. The pumps that pressurize the water system would need more electricity to run, and the losses would be the friction / flow restriction in the pipes as well as the efficiency of converting electricity to and from kinetic energy.
    $endgroup$
    – Aaron
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @evildemonic yikes - or shocking? ;)
    $endgroup$
    – UKMonkey
    14 hours ago














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    In the UK, certainly, it's far more normal to have a gas supply pipe and a copper telephone line than an Internet fiber.
    $endgroup$
    – Finbarr
    yesterday








  • 17




    $begingroup$
    You want the water coming in to your house electrified? Yikes!
    $endgroup$
    – evildemonic
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    It would be far more efficient to utilize the water flow to drive a turbine to locally generate the power. The pumps that pressurize the water system would need more electricity to run, and the losses would be the friction / flow restriction in the pipes as well as the efficiency of converting electricity to and from kinetic energy.
    $endgroup$
    – Aaron
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @evildemonic yikes - or shocking? ;)
    $endgroup$
    – UKMonkey
    14 hours ago








2




2




$begingroup$
In the UK, certainly, it's far more normal to have a gas supply pipe and a copper telephone line than an Internet fiber.
$endgroup$
– Finbarr
yesterday






$begingroup$
In the UK, certainly, it's far more normal to have a gas supply pipe and a copper telephone line than an Internet fiber.
$endgroup$
– Finbarr
yesterday






17




17




$begingroup$
You want the water coming in to your house electrified? Yikes!
$endgroup$
– evildemonic
yesterday




$begingroup$
You want the water coming in to your house electrified? Yikes!
$endgroup$
– evildemonic
yesterday












$begingroup$
It would be far more efficient to utilize the water flow to drive a turbine to locally generate the power. The pumps that pressurize the water system would need more electricity to run, and the losses would be the friction / flow restriction in the pipes as well as the efficiency of converting electricity to and from kinetic energy.
$endgroup$
– Aaron
yesterday




$begingroup$
It would be far more efficient to utilize the water flow to drive a turbine to locally generate the power. The pumps that pressurize the water system would need more electricity to run, and the losses would be the friction / flow restriction in the pipes as well as the efficiency of converting electricity to and from kinetic energy.
$endgroup$
– Aaron
yesterday












$begingroup$
@evildemonic yikes - or shocking? ;)
$endgroup$
– UKMonkey
14 hours ago




$begingroup$
@evildemonic yikes - or shocking? ;)
$endgroup$
– UKMonkey
14 hours ago










6 Answers
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Water, especially pure water, is a rather poor conductor of electricity. 5–50 mS/m for tap water vs. more like 6E+7 S/m for copper. That's about 10 orders of magnitude, so for the same losses as a 4 mm diameter AWG 6 wire your pipe would have to be 16,000 km in diameter, which would make plumbing somewhat inconvenient. You'd need a return conductor too.



That said, there are times when water (including groundwater) can be used to conduct electricity for transmission, at a cost in efficiency.






share|improve this answer











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  • 21




    $begingroup$
    +1 for 'somewhat inconvenient'
    $endgroup$
    – Michel Keijzers
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    If you want to keep your pipes (surely the OP's idea) you'd need to up the ante. With 10mS/m and 1000 m of pipe, cross section 1m^2, you have 100 kOhm resistance R, so to provide a current of I=100A (=10kW at 100V, typical house consumption) you'd need U=I*R = 10MV source voltage. No small change. A related problem is that because all the resistance is in the "cable", the socket voltage varies inverse to the consumption. If you switch everything off and only leave your night light on there is a MV or so of voltage at the socket. The upside: You'll always have hot water.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter A. Schneider
    yesterday












  • $begingroup$
    Actually, this would make a decent "What If" article. "What if we add more power??"
    $endgroup$
    – Peter A. Schneider
    yesterday



















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It is not clear if you want to use the 'same' water pipes for drinking/showering and electricity.



Assumption 1: Same pipe with water for both water and electricity



Because if you would touch water that has too much voltage/current, you die.



Actually, what happens is:




  • Assuming the water has a voltage of 220 V (or 120 V in the US)

  • As soon as you touch the water, there will be (in most circumstances) a connection between the water (110/220 V) and ground (GND).

  • The electricity will flow through your body

  • Depending on the resistance more or less current will start to flow: through your body.

  • This high likely is way too much for your heart, or if not, burn wounds will occur.


Even if the water would have the voltage of a battery, you don't want to brush your teeth with water having a voltage different from ground.



Assumption 2: Different pipes with water for water and electricity



Water has much more electrical resistance than copper, which means it would cause a lot of voltage reduction after long pipes filled with water.



I think this is the main reason, other reasons can be (thinking out loud):




  • Water pipes can leak if broken

  • If a water pipe (plastic) is broken, dirt can get in, resulting in no or less good conductivity.

  • A copper wire always has a certain diameter which is fixed, with water it depends on the pressure of the pipe

  • Pressure is needed to keep the water on such a pressure there are no bubbles.

  • Water can freeze, possibly resulting in different conductivity properties

  • You need multiple pipes, if a pipe breaks the chance is that the water will be 'mixed' resulting in a short cut. A clean copper wire cut will not result directly in a short cut.


Assumption 3: Only inter-house/building pipes



(meaning only using water to distribute electricity within a single building/house).




  • Water generally doesn't go to the same end location as electricity. You don't need a socket near the toilet flush, and you don't need a tap near your TV set. So this is pointless, except maybe for the kitchen (see comment of dim below).






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Not "power." Voltage.
    $endgroup$
    – JRE
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @JRE of course... updated, thanks for the remark.
    $endgroup$
    – Michel Keijzers
    yesterday






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    Would not be just the shower gel to add a "zing" to your day then :)
    $endgroup$
    – Solar Mike
    yesterday






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    @MichelKeijzers I'm not knowledgeable enough to prove it with facts, but I'm pretty sure the answer ends like: "[...] so merging the water and electricity delivery infrastructures, trying to combine the constraints of each, would lead to much higher costs, and would be much less practical in terms of maintenance, than just having dedicated, appropriate channels for each of these services, which, by nature, are very different"... Or something like this...
    $endgroup$
    – dim
    yesterday






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    Very likely yes, or even worse: incredibly unsafe situations.
    $endgroup$
    – Michel Keijzers
    yesterday



















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Water is a poor conductor. Its conductivity may suffice to electrocute yourself in your bathtub, but it's much, much worse than that of copper:




  • Drinking water: 0.005 – 0.05 S/m

  • Copper: 59600000 S/m (= 5.96×10^7 S/m)


This means that copper is conducting electricity one to ten billion times better than water. A water pipe is thicker than the wires of an electric cable, but this can't compensate such a huge difference.



Note that this answer is only about the conductivity. Safety and other aspects haven't even been mentioned.






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  • $begingroup$
    +1 for using Siemens like we all shoud know what it is (we should!)
    $endgroup$
    – Harper
    yesterday










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    Using conductivity is a weak argument, you can always step up the voltage to several thousand volts so only a few microamps are needed to traverse the poor conductor. - But either way, this question is only a fun thought experiment, nothing more than that.
    $endgroup$
    – Harry Svensson
    yesterday










  • $begingroup$
    @HarrySvensson: I firmly disagree! A few thousand volt wouldn't be enough. You would have to raise the voltage by more than a factor of 10 000 to transmit the same power. Do you seriously propose household voltages above 1 MV?
    $endgroup$
    – Frank from Frankfurt
    18 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    @FrankfromFrankfurt The water is already in contact with grounded pipes so nothing makes sense anyways. But IF the water was insulated like mad, and properly neutralized for drinking/showering, then yes, 1 MV would make sense. But this question is too derpy to be taken seriously. Too many plot holes.
    $endgroup$
    – Harry Svensson
    17 hours ago



















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Let us assume that the water is hard (ie with a modest amount of calcium in)... the resistance of the water will be modest, but maybe for short distances it'll "be ok".



Once the water gets to your house, you want to remove any potential difference to ground before anyone can touch the water - which would mean that you would have to have a section that is connected to ground and the water.



If you do this, the amount of power you can extract from the electricity is limited because you have been required to short your mains to keep it safe... and a load placed across a short isn't going to be able to draw much.



Further to this, now that you've had to short the mains, there will be a current continually running - meaning a huge amount of power will be wasted.



It gets worse.



Passing a current through water will result in electrolysis resulting in a build up of hydrogen and oxygen in the pipe. Highly reactive gasses in a confined area is what results in explosions.






share|improve this answer









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    Simple circuit Answer:



    It will never work , even if salt water (lossy), or pure dielectric Dk=80 water ( too small capacitance for a long gap between electrodes.





    schematic





    simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



    Your concept results in a short circuit to the grid with no power transfer.



    Two big theoretical problems: High VAR load and water flow restriction



    although water has Dk=80 the electrodes in C/2 must be large Area/gap to create a large capacitance.



    Since the electrode gap in the transmission line end-end is huge , you now have a a very high series impedance and the AC voltage is then attenuated by the impedance Ratio of high series and low load impedance.
    - thus the small gap would restrict flow of water.
    - and the shunt capacitance across the grid now acts as a reactive load which although is opposite 90 deg phase to inductive loads would refult in very poor Power Factor and high VAR losses






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$









    • 1




      $begingroup$
      How does the diagram relate to the question? I don’t know much about circuit diagrams
      $endgroup$
      – Jonathan Lam
      yesterday










    • $begingroup$
      If you do not know about VAR loads or circuit diagrams then you cannot understand the concept of a reactive load. to create the low capacitive impedance to transmit power at low frequency. This only works for microwave antenna stripline for impedance matching ( no water)
      $endgroup$
      – Sunnyskyguy EE75
      yesterday





















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    Other answers have already covered why this isn't a good idea.



    What is a good idea is sharing a large-diameter pipe with other services where possible. There are already projects where sewer pipes have been used for fibre-optic connections, instead of digging a dedicated hole in the ground for your fibre. The fibre is small enough that it won't affect the sewer, there's no disturbance above ground along the route of the cable (which as well as being more convenient also makes it much cheaper), and it's better protected from being dug up accidentally. For example, this project around London.



    The thicker pipes for drinking water and thicker armoured cables for electrical power are less obvious wins, but could still use this. However most towns and cities already have this infrastructure in place, so there's no reason to change it; and new developments of course are free to lay services wherever they want whilst the diggers are still working. The difference for fibre of course is that it's a new service being retrofitted into the existing infrastructure.






    share|improve this answer









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      6 Answers
      6






      active

      oldest

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      6 Answers
      6






      active

      oldest

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      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

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      25












      $begingroup$

      Water, especially pure water, is a rather poor conductor of electricity. 5–50 mS/m for tap water vs. more like 6E+7 S/m for copper. That's about 10 orders of magnitude, so for the same losses as a 4 mm diameter AWG 6 wire your pipe would have to be 16,000 km in diameter, which would make plumbing somewhat inconvenient. You'd need a return conductor too.



      That said, there are times when water (including groundwater) can be used to conduct electricity for transmission, at a cost in efficiency.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$









      • 21




        $begingroup$
        +1 for 'somewhat inconvenient'
        $endgroup$
        – Michel Keijzers
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        If you want to keep your pipes (surely the OP's idea) you'd need to up the ante. With 10mS/m and 1000 m of pipe, cross section 1m^2, you have 100 kOhm resistance R, so to provide a current of I=100A (=10kW at 100V, typical house consumption) you'd need U=I*R = 10MV source voltage. No small change. A related problem is that because all the resistance is in the "cable", the socket voltage varies inverse to the consumption. If you switch everything off and only leave your night light on there is a MV or so of voltage at the socket. The upside: You'll always have hot water.
        $endgroup$
        – Peter A. Schneider
        yesterday












      • $begingroup$
        Actually, this would make a decent "What If" article. "What if we add more power??"
        $endgroup$
        – Peter A. Schneider
        yesterday
















      25












      $begingroup$

      Water, especially pure water, is a rather poor conductor of electricity. 5–50 mS/m for tap water vs. more like 6E+7 S/m for copper. That's about 10 orders of magnitude, so for the same losses as a 4 mm diameter AWG 6 wire your pipe would have to be 16,000 km in diameter, which would make plumbing somewhat inconvenient. You'd need a return conductor too.



      That said, there are times when water (including groundwater) can be used to conduct electricity for transmission, at a cost in efficiency.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$









      • 21




        $begingroup$
        +1 for 'somewhat inconvenient'
        $endgroup$
        – Michel Keijzers
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        If you want to keep your pipes (surely the OP's idea) you'd need to up the ante. With 10mS/m and 1000 m of pipe, cross section 1m^2, you have 100 kOhm resistance R, so to provide a current of I=100A (=10kW at 100V, typical house consumption) you'd need U=I*R = 10MV source voltage. No small change. A related problem is that because all the resistance is in the "cable", the socket voltage varies inverse to the consumption. If you switch everything off and only leave your night light on there is a MV or so of voltage at the socket. The upside: You'll always have hot water.
        $endgroup$
        – Peter A. Schneider
        yesterday












      • $begingroup$
        Actually, this would make a decent "What If" article. "What if we add more power??"
        $endgroup$
        – Peter A. Schneider
        yesterday














      25












      25








      25





      $begingroup$

      Water, especially pure water, is a rather poor conductor of electricity. 5–50 mS/m for tap water vs. more like 6E+7 S/m for copper. That's about 10 orders of magnitude, so for the same losses as a 4 mm diameter AWG 6 wire your pipe would have to be 16,000 km in diameter, which would make plumbing somewhat inconvenient. You'd need a return conductor too.



      That said, there are times when water (including groundwater) can be used to conduct electricity for transmission, at a cost in efficiency.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      Water, especially pure water, is a rather poor conductor of electricity. 5–50 mS/m for tap water vs. more like 6E+7 S/m for copper. That's about 10 orders of magnitude, so for the same losses as a 4 mm diameter AWG 6 wire your pipe would have to be 16,000 km in diameter, which would make plumbing somewhat inconvenient. You'd need a return conductor too.



      That said, there are times when water (including groundwater) can be used to conduct electricity for transmission, at a cost in efficiency.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited yesterday









      Michel Keijzers

      6,96593072




      6,96593072










      answered yesterday









      Spehro PefhanySpehro Pefhany

      214k5163434




      214k5163434








      • 21




        $begingroup$
        +1 for 'somewhat inconvenient'
        $endgroup$
        – Michel Keijzers
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        If you want to keep your pipes (surely the OP's idea) you'd need to up the ante. With 10mS/m and 1000 m of pipe, cross section 1m^2, you have 100 kOhm resistance R, so to provide a current of I=100A (=10kW at 100V, typical house consumption) you'd need U=I*R = 10MV source voltage. No small change. A related problem is that because all the resistance is in the "cable", the socket voltage varies inverse to the consumption. If you switch everything off and only leave your night light on there is a MV or so of voltage at the socket. The upside: You'll always have hot water.
        $endgroup$
        – Peter A. Schneider
        yesterday












      • $begingroup$
        Actually, this would make a decent "What If" article. "What if we add more power??"
        $endgroup$
        – Peter A. Schneider
        yesterday














      • 21




        $begingroup$
        +1 for 'somewhat inconvenient'
        $endgroup$
        – Michel Keijzers
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        If you want to keep your pipes (surely the OP's idea) you'd need to up the ante. With 10mS/m and 1000 m of pipe, cross section 1m^2, you have 100 kOhm resistance R, so to provide a current of I=100A (=10kW at 100V, typical house consumption) you'd need U=I*R = 10MV source voltage. No small change. A related problem is that because all the resistance is in the "cable", the socket voltage varies inverse to the consumption. If you switch everything off and only leave your night light on there is a MV or so of voltage at the socket. The upside: You'll always have hot water.
        $endgroup$
        – Peter A. Schneider
        yesterday












      • $begingroup$
        Actually, this would make a decent "What If" article. "What if we add more power??"
        $endgroup$
        – Peter A. Schneider
        yesterday








      21




      21




      $begingroup$
      +1 for 'somewhat inconvenient'
      $endgroup$
      – Michel Keijzers
      yesterday




      $begingroup$
      +1 for 'somewhat inconvenient'
      $endgroup$
      – Michel Keijzers
      yesterday












      $begingroup$
      If you want to keep your pipes (surely the OP's idea) you'd need to up the ante. With 10mS/m and 1000 m of pipe, cross section 1m^2, you have 100 kOhm resistance R, so to provide a current of I=100A (=10kW at 100V, typical house consumption) you'd need U=I*R = 10MV source voltage. No small change. A related problem is that because all the resistance is in the "cable", the socket voltage varies inverse to the consumption. If you switch everything off and only leave your night light on there is a MV or so of voltage at the socket. The upside: You'll always have hot water.
      $endgroup$
      – Peter A. Schneider
      yesterday






      $begingroup$
      If you want to keep your pipes (surely the OP's idea) you'd need to up the ante. With 10mS/m and 1000 m of pipe, cross section 1m^2, you have 100 kOhm resistance R, so to provide a current of I=100A (=10kW at 100V, typical house consumption) you'd need U=I*R = 10MV source voltage. No small change. A related problem is that because all the resistance is in the "cable", the socket voltage varies inverse to the consumption. If you switch everything off and only leave your night light on there is a MV or so of voltage at the socket. The upside: You'll always have hot water.
      $endgroup$
      – Peter A. Schneider
      yesterday














      $begingroup$
      Actually, this would make a decent "What If" article. "What if we add more power??"
      $endgroup$
      – Peter A. Schneider
      yesterday




      $begingroup$
      Actually, this would make a decent "What If" article. "What if we add more power??"
      $endgroup$
      – Peter A. Schneider
      yesterday













      7












      $begingroup$

      It is not clear if you want to use the 'same' water pipes for drinking/showering and electricity.



      Assumption 1: Same pipe with water for both water and electricity



      Because if you would touch water that has too much voltage/current, you die.



      Actually, what happens is:




      • Assuming the water has a voltage of 220 V (or 120 V in the US)

      • As soon as you touch the water, there will be (in most circumstances) a connection between the water (110/220 V) and ground (GND).

      • The electricity will flow through your body

      • Depending on the resistance more or less current will start to flow: through your body.

      • This high likely is way too much for your heart, or if not, burn wounds will occur.


      Even if the water would have the voltage of a battery, you don't want to brush your teeth with water having a voltage different from ground.



      Assumption 2: Different pipes with water for water and electricity



      Water has much more electrical resistance than copper, which means it would cause a lot of voltage reduction after long pipes filled with water.



      I think this is the main reason, other reasons can be (thinking out loud):




      • Water pipes can leak if broken

      • If a water pipe (plastic) is broken, dirt can get in, resulting in no or less good conductivity.

      • A copper wire always has a certain diameter which is fixed, with water it depends on the pressure of the pipe

      • Pressure is needed to keep the water on such a pressure there are no bubbles.

      • Water can freeze, possibly resulting in different conductivity properties

      • You need multiple pipes, if a pipe breaks the chance is that the water will be 'mixed' resulting in a short cut. A clean copper wire cut will not result directly in a short cut.


      Assumption 3: Only inter-house/building pipes



      (meaning only using water to distribute electricity within a single building/house).




      • Water generally doesn't go to the same end location as electricity. You don't need a socket near the toilet flush, and you don't need a tap near your TV set. So this is pointless, except maybe for the kitchen (see comment of dim below).






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$









      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Not "power." Voltage.
        $endgroup$
        – JRE
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        @JRE of course... updated, thanks for the remark.
        $endgroup$
        – Michel Keijzers
        yesterday






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Would not be just the shower gel to add a "zing" to your day then :)
        $endgroup$
        – Solar Mike
        yesterday






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @MichelKeijzers I'm not knowledgeable enough to prove it with facts, but I'm pretty sure the answer ends like: "[...] so merging the water and electricity delivery infrastructures, trying to combine the constraints of each, would lead to much higher costs, and would be much less practical in terms of maintenance, than just having dedicated, appropriate channels for each of these services, which, by nature, are very different"... Or something like this...
        $endgroup$
        – dim
        yesterday






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Very likely yes, or even worse: incredibly unsafe situations.
        $endgroup$
        – Michel Keijzers
        yesterday
















      7












      $begingroup$

      It is not clear if you want to use the 'same' water pipes for drinking/showering and electricity.



      Assumption 1: Same pipe with water for both water and electricity



      Because if you would touch water that has too much voltage/current, you die.



      Actually, what happens is:




      • Assuming the water has a voltage of 220 V (or 120 V in the US)

      • As soon as you touch the water, there will be (in most circumstances) a connection between the water (110/220 V) and ground (GND).

      • The electricity will flow through your body

      • Depending on the resistance more or less current will start to flow: through your body.

      • This high likely is way too much for your heart, or if not, burn wounds will occur.


      Even if the water would have the voltage of a battery, you don't want to brush your teeth with water having a voltage different from ground.



      Assumption 2: Different pipes with water for water and electricity



      Water has much more electrical resistance than copper, which means it would cause a lot of voltage reduction after long pipes filled with water.



      I think this is the main reason, other reasons can be (thinking out loud):




      • Water pipes can leak if broken

      • If a water pipe (plastic) is broken, dirt can get in, resulting in no or less good conductivity.

      • A copper wire always has a certain diameter which is fixed, with water it depends on the pressure of the pipe

      • Pressure is needed to keep the water on such a pressure there are no bubbles.

      • Water can freeze, possibly resulting in different conductivity properties

      • You need multiple pipes, if a pipe breaks the chance is that the water will be 'mixed' resulting in a short cut. A clean copper wire cut will not result directly in a short cut.


      Assumption 3: Only inter-house/building pipes



      (meaning only using water to distribute electricity within a single building/house).




      • Water generally doesn't go to the same end location as electricity. You don't need a socket near the toilet flush, and you don't need a tap near your TV set. So this is pointless, except maybe for the kitchen (see comment of dim below).






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$









      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Not "power." Voltage.
        $endgroup$
        – JRE
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        @JRE of course... updated, thanks for the remark.
        $endgroup$
        – Michel Keijzers
        yesterday






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Would not be just the shower gel to add a "zing" to your day then :)
        $endgroup$
        – Solar Mike
        yesterday






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @MichelKeijzers I'm not knowledgeable enough to prove it with facts, but I'm pretty sure the answer ends like: "[...] so merging the water and electricity delivery infrastructures, trying to combine the constraints of each, would lead to much higher costs, and would be much less practical in terms of maintenance, than just having dedicated, appropriate channels for each of these services, which, by nature, are very different"... Or something like this...
        $endgroup$
        – dim
        yesterday






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Very likely yes, or even worse: incredibly unsafe situations.
        $endgroup$
        – Michel Keijzers
        yesterday














      7












      7








      7





      $begingroup$

      It is not clear if you want to use the 'same' water pipes for drinking/showering and electricity.



      Assumption 1: Same pipe with water for both water and electricity



      Because if you would touch water that has too much voltage/current, you die.



      Actually, what happens is:




      • Assuming the water has a voltage of 220 V (or 120 V in the US)

      • As soon as you touch the water, there will be (in most circumstances) a connection between the water (110/220 V) and ground (GND).

      • The electricity will flow through your body

      • Depending on the resistance more or less current will start to flow: through your body.

      • This high likely is way too much for your heart, or if not, burn wounds will occur.


      Even if the water would have the voltage of a battery, you don't want to brush your teeth with water having a voltage different from ground.



      Assumption 2: Different pipes with water for water and electricity



      Water has much more electrical resistance than copper, which means it would cause a lot of voltage reduction after long pipes filled with water.



      I think this is the main reason, other reasons can be (thinking out loud):




      • Water pipes can leak if broken

      • If a water pipe (plastic) is broken, dirt can get in, resulting in no or less good conductivity.

      • A copper wire always has a certain diameter which is fixed, with water it depends on the pressure of the pipe

      • Pressure is needed to keep the water on such a pressure there are no bubbles.

      • Water can freeze, possibly resulting in different conductivity properties

      • You need multiple pipes, if a pipe breaks the chance is that the water will be 'mixed' resulting in a short cut. A clean copper wire cut will not result directly in a short cut.


      Assumption 3: Only inter-house/building pipes



      (meaning only using water to distribute electricity within a single building/house).




      • Water generally doesn't go to the same end location as electricity. You don't need a socket near the toilet flush, and you don't need a tap near your TV set. So this is pointless, except maybe for the kitchen (see comment of dim below).






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      It is not clear if you want to use the 'same' water pipes for drinking/showering and electricity.



      Assumption 1: Same pipe with water for both water and electricity



      Because if you would touch water that has too much voltage/current, you die.



      Actually, what happens is:




      • Assuming the water has a voltage of 220 V (or 120 V in the US)

      • As soon as you touch the water, there will be (in most circumstances) a connection between the water (110/220 V) and ground (GND).

      • The electricity will flow through your body

      • Depending on the resistance more or less current will start to flow: through your body.

      • This high likely is way too much for your heart, or if not, burn wounds will occur.


      Even if the water would have the voltage of a battery, you don't want to brush your teeth with water having a voltage different from ground.



      Assumption 2: Different pipes with water for water and electricity



      Water has much more electrical resistance than copper, which means it would cause a lot of voltage reduction after long pipes filled with water.



      I think this is the main reason, other reasons can be (thinking out loud):




      • Water pipes can leak if broken

      • If a water pipe (plastic) is broken, dirt can get in, resulting in no or less good conductivity.

      • A copper wire always has a certain diameter which is fixed, with water it depends on the pressure of the pipe

      • Pressure is needed to keep the water on such a pressure there are no bubbles.

      • Water can freeze, possibly resulting in different conductivity properties

      • You need multiple pipes, if a pipe breaks the chance is that the water will be 'mixed' resulting in a short cut. A clean copper wire cut will not result directly in a short cut.


      Assumption 3: Only inter-house/building pipes



      (meaning only using water to distribute electricity within a single building/house).




      • Water generally doesn't go to the same end location as electricity. You don't need a socket near the toilet flush, and you don't need a tap near your TV set. So this is pointless, except maybe for the kitchen (see comment of dim below).







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited yesterday









      Greenonline

      7872923




      7872923










      answered yesterday









      Michel KeijzersMichel Keijzers

      6,96593072




      6,96593072








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Not "power." Voltage.
        $endgroup$
        – JRE
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        @JRE of course... updated, thanks for the remark.
        $endgroup$
        – Michel Keijzers
        yesterday






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Would not be just the shower gel to add a "zing" to your day then :)
        $endgroup$
        – Solar Mike
        yesterday






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @MichelKeijzers I'm not knowledgeable enough to prove it with facts, but I'm pretty sure the answer ends like: "[...] so merging the water and electricity delivery infrastructures, trying to combine the constraints of each, would lead to much higher costs, and would be much less practical in terms of maintenance, than just having dedicated, appropriate channels for each of these services, which, by nature, are very different"... Or something like this...
        $endgroup$
        – dim
        yesterday






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Very likely yes, or even worse: incredibly unsafe situations.
        $endgroup$
        – Michel Keijzers
        yesterday














      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Not "power." Voltage.
        $endgroup$
        – JRE
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        @JRE of course... updated, thanks for the remark.
        $endgroup$
        – Michel Keijzers
        yesterday






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        Would not be just the shower gel to add a "zing" to your day then :)
        $endgroup$
        – Solar Mike
        yesterday






      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @MichelKeijzers I'm not knowledgeable enough to prove it with facts, but I'm pretty sure the answer ends like: "[...] so merging the water and electricity delivery infrastructures, trying to combine the constraints of each, would lead to much higher costs, and would be much less practical in terms of maintenance, than just having dedicated, appropriate channels for each of these services, which, by nature, are very different"... Or something like this...
        $endgroup$
        – dim
        yesterday






      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Very likely yes, or even worse: incredibly unsafe situations.
        $endgroup$
        – Michel Keijzers
        yesterday








      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      Not "power." Voltage.
      $endgroup$
      – JRE
      yesterday




      $begingroup$
      Not "power." Voltage.
      $endgroup$
      – JRE
      yesterday












      $begingroup$
      @JRE of course... updated, thanks for the remark.
      $endgroup$
      – Michel Keijzers
      yesterday




      $begingroup$
      @JRE of course... updated, thanks for the remark.
      $endgroup$
      – Michel Keijzers
      yesterday




      2




      2




      $begingroup$
      Would not be just the shower gel to add a "zing" to your day then :)
      $endgroup$
      – Solar Mike
      yesterday




      $begingroup$
      Would not be just the shower gel to add a "zing" to your day then :)
      $endgroup$
      – Solar Mike
      yesterday




      2




      2




      $begingroup$
      @MichelKeijzers I'm not knowledgeable enough to prove it with facts, but I'm pretty sure the answer ends like: "[...] so merging the water and electricity delivery infrastructures, trying to combine the constraints of each, would lead to much higher costs, and would be much less practical in terms of maintenance, than just having dedicated, appropriate channels for each of these services, which, by nature, are very different"... Or something like this...
      $endgroup$
      – dim
      yesterday




      $begingroup$
      @MichelKeijzers I'm not knowledgeable enough to prove it with facts, but I'm pretty sure the answer ends like: "[...] so merging the water and electricity delivery infrastructures, trying to combine the constraints of each, would lead to much higher costs, and would be much less practical in terms of maintenance, than just having dedicated, appropriate channels for each of these services, which, by nature, are very different"... Or something like this...
      $endgroup$
      – dim
      yesterday




      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      Very likely yes, or even worse: incredibly unsafe situations.
      $endgroup$
      – Michel Keijzers
      yesterday




      $begingroup$
      Very likely yes, or even worse: incredibly unsafe situations.
      $endgroup$
      – Michel Keijzers
      yesterday











      2












      $begingroup$

      Water is a poor conductor. Its conductivity may suffice to electrocute yourself in your bathtub, but it's much, much worse than that of copper:




      • Drinking water: 0.005 – 0.05 S/m

      • Copper: 59600000 S/m (= 5.96×10^7 S/m)


      This means that copper is conducting electricity one to ten billion times better than water. A water pipe is thicker than the wires of an electric cable, but this can't compensate such a huge difference.



      Note that this answer is only about the conductivity. Safety and other aspects haven't even been mentioned.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        +1 for using Siemens like we all shoud know what it is (we should!)
        $endgroup$
        – Harper
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        Using conductivity is a weak argument, you can always step up the voltage to several thousand volts so only a few microamps are needed to traverse the poor conductor. - But either way, this question is only a fun thought experiment, nothing more than that.
        $endgroup$
        – Harry Svensson
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        @HarrySvensson: I firmly disagree! A few thousand volt wouldn't be enough. You would have to raise the voltage by more than a factor of 10 000 to transmit the same power. Do you seriously propose household voltages above 1 MV?
        $endgroup$
        – Frank from Frankfurt
        18 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        @FrankfromFrankfurt The water is already in contact with grounded pipes so nothing makes sense anyways. But IF the water was insulated like mad, and properly neutralized for drinking/showering, then yes, 1 MV would make sense. But this question is too derpy to be taken seriously. Too many plot holes.
        $endgroup$
        – Harry Svensson
        17 hours ago
















      2












      $begingroup$

      Water is a poor conductor. Its conductivity may suffice to electrocute yourself in your bathtub, but it's much, much worse than that of copper:




      • Drinking water: 0.005 – 0.05 S/m

      • Copper: 59600000 S/m (= 5.96×10^7 S/m)


      This means that copper is conducting electricity one to ten billion times better than water. A water pipe is thicker than the wires of an electric cable, but this can't compensate such a huge difference.



      Note that this answer is only about the conductivity. Safety and other aspects haven't even been mentioned.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        +1 for using Siemens like we all shoud know what it is (we should!)
        $endgroup$
        – Harper
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        Using conductivity is a weak argument, you can always step up the voltage to several thousand volts so only a few microamps are needed to traverse the poor conductor. - But either way, this question is only a fun thought experiment, nothing more than that.
        $endgroup$
        – Harry Svensson
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        @HarrySvensson: I firmly disagree! A few thousand volt wouldn't be enough. You would have to raise the voltage by more than a factor of 10 000 to transmit the same power. Do you seriously propose household voltages above 1 MV?
        $endgroup$
        – Frank from Frankfurt
        18 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        @FrankfromFrankfurt The water is already in contact with grounded pipes so nothing makes sense anyways. But IF the water was insulated like mad, and properly neutralized for drinking/showering, then yes, 1 MV would make sense. But this question is too derpy to be taken seriously. Too many plot holes.
        $endgroup$
        – Harry Svensson
        17 hours ago














      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$

      Water is a poor conductor. Its conductivity may suffice to electrocute yourself in your bathtub, but it's much, much worse than that of copper:




      • Drinking water: 0.005 – 0.05 S/m

      • Copper: 59600000 S/m (= 5.96×10^7 S/m)


      This means that copper is conducting electricity one to ten billion times better than water. A water pipe is thicker than the wires of an electric cable, but this can't compensate such a huge difference.



      Note that this answer is only about the conductivity. Safety and other aspects haven't even been mentioned.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$



      Water is a poor conductor. Its conductivity may suffice to electrocute yourself in your bathtub, but it's much, much worse than that of copper:




      • Drinking water: 0.005 – 0.05 S/m

      • Copper: 59600000 S/m (= 5.96×10^7 S/m)


      This means that copper is conducting electricity one to ten billion times better than water. A water pipe is thicker than the wires of an electric cable, but this can't compensate such a huge difference.



      Note that this answer is only about the conductivity. Safety and other aspects haven't even been mentioned.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered yesterday









      Frank from FrankfurtFrank from Frankfurt

      3004




      3004












      • $begingroup$
        +1 for using Siemens like we all shoud know what it is (we should!)
        $endgroup$
        – Harper
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        Using conductivity is a weak argument, you can always step up the voltage to several thousand volts so only a few microamps are needed to traverse the poor conductor. - But either way, this question is only a fun thought experiment, nothing more than that.
        $endgroup$
        – Harry Svensson
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        @HarrySvensson: I firmly disagree! A few thousand volt wouldn't be enough. You would have to raise the voltage by more than a factor of 10 000 to transmit the same power. Do you seriously propose household voltages above 1 MV?
        $endgroup$
        – Frank from Frankfurt
        18 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        @FrankfromFrankfurt The water is already in contact with grounded pipes so nothing makes sense anyways. But IF the water was insulated like mad, and properly neutralized for drinking/showering, then yes, 1 MV would make sense. But this question is too derpy to be taken seriously. Too many plot holes.
        $endgroup$
        – Harry Svensson
        17 hours ago


















      • $begingroup$
        +1 for using Siemens like we all shoud know what it is (we should!)
        $endgroup$
        – Harper
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        Using conductivity is a weak argument, you can always step up the voltage to several thousand volts so only a few microamps are needed to traverse the poor conductor. - But either way, this question is only a fun thought experiment, nothing more than that.
        $endgroup$
        – Harry Svensson
        yesterday










      • $begingroup$
        @HarrySvensson: I firmly disagree! A few thousand volt wouldn't be enough. You would have to raise the voltage by more than a factor of 10 000 to transmit the same power. Do you seriously propose household voltages above 1 MV?
        $endgroup$
        – Frank from Frankfurt
        18 hours ago










      • $begingroup$
        @FrankfromFrankfurt The water is already in contact with grounded pipes so nothing makes sense anyways. But IF the water was insulated like mad, and properly neutralized for drinking/showering, then yes, 1 MV would make sense. But this question is too derpy to be taken seriously. Too many plot holes.
        $endgroup$
        – Harry Svensson
        17 hours ago
















      $begingroup$
      +1 for using Siemens like we all shoud know what it is (we should!)
      $endgroup$
      – Harper
      yesterday




      $begingroup$
      +1 for using Siemens like we all shoud know what it is (we should!)
      $endgroup$
      – Harper
      yesterday












      $begingroup$
      Using conductivity is a weak argument, you can always step up the voltage to several thousand volts so only a few microamps are needed to traverse the poor conductor. - But either way, this question is only a fun thought experiment, nothing more than that.
      $endgroup$
      – Harry Svensson
      yesterday




      $begingroup$
      Using conductivity is a weak argument, you can always step up the voltage to several thousand volts so only a few microamps are needed to traverse the poor conductor. - But either way, this question is only a fun thought experiment, nothing more than that.
      $endgroup$
      – Harry Svensson
      yesterday












      $begingroup$
      @HarrySvensson: I firmly disagree! A few thousand volt wouldn't be enough. You would have to raise the voltage by more than a factor of 10 000 to transmit the same power. Do you seriously propose household voltages above 1 MV?
      $endgroup$
      – Frank from Frankfurt
      18 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      @HarrySvensson: I firmly disagree! A few thousand volt wouldn't be enough. You would have to raise the voltage by more than a factor of 10 000 to transmit the same power. Do you seriously propose household voltages above 1 MV?
      $endgroup$
      – Frank from Frankfurt
      18 hours ago












      $begingroup$
      @FrankfromFrankfurt The water is already in contact with grounded pipes so nothing makes sense anyways. But IF the water was insulated like mad, and properly neutralized for drinking/showering, then yes, 1 MV would make sense. But this question is too derpy to be taken seriously. Too many plot holes.
      $endgroup$
      – Harry Svensson
      17 hours ago




      $begingroup$
      @FrankfromFrankfurt The water is already in contact with grounded pipes so nothing makes sense anyways. But IF the water was insulated like mad, and properly neutralized for drinking/showering, then yes, 1 MV would make sense. But this question is too derpy to be taken seriously. Too many plot holes.
      $endgroup$
      – Harry Svensson
      17 hours ago











      1












      $begingroup$

      Let us assume that the water is hard (ie with a modest amount of calcium in)... the resistance of the water will be modest, but maybe for short distances it'll "be ok".



      Once the water gets to your house, you want to remove any potential difference to ground before anyone can touch the water - which would mean that you would have to have a section that is connected to ground and the water.



      If you do this, the amount of power you can extract from the electricity is limited because you have been required to short your mains to keep it safe... and a load placed across a short isn't going to be able to draw much.



      Further to this, now that you've had to short the mains, there will be a current continually running - meaning a huge amount of power will be wasted.



      It gets worse.



      Passing a current through water will result in electrolysis resulting in a build up of hydrogen and oxygen in the pipe. Highly reactive gasses in a confined area is what results in explosions.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        1












        $begingroup$

        Let us assume that the water is hard (ie with a modest amount of calcium in)... the resistance of the water will be modest, but maybe for short distances it'll "be ok".



        Once the water gets to your house, you want to remove any potential difference to ground before anyone can touch the water - which would mean that you would have to have a section that is connected to ground and the water.



        If you do this, the amount of power you can extract from the electricity is limited because you have been required to short your mains to keep it safe... and a load placed across a short isn't going to be able to draw much.



        Further to this, now that you've had to short the mains, there will be a current continually running - meaning a huge amount of power will be wasted.



        It gets worse.



        Passing a current through water will result in electrolysis resulting in a build up of hydrogen and oxygen in the pipe. Highly reactive gasses in a confined area is what results in explosions.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          Let us assume that the water is hard (ie with a modest amount of calcium in)... the resistance of the water will be modest, but maybe for short distances it'll "be ok".



          Once the water gets to your house, you want to remove any potential difference to ground before anyone can touch the water - which would mean that you would have to have a section that is connected to ground and the water.



          If you do this, the amount of power you can extract from the electricity is limited because you have been required to short your mains to keep it safe... and a load placed across a short isn't going to be able to draw much.



          Further to this, now that you've had to short the mains, there will be a current continually running - meaning a huge amount of power will be wasted.



          It gets worse.



          Passing a current through water will result in electrolysis resulting in a build up of hydrogen and oxygen in the pipe. Highly reactive gasses in a confined area is what results in explosions.






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Let us assume that the water is hard (ie with a modest amount of calcium in)... the resistance of the water will be modest, but maybe for short distances it'll "be ok".



          Once the water gets to your house, you want to remove any potential difference to ground before anyone can touch the water - which would mean that you would have to have a section that is connected to ground and the water.



          If you do this, the amount of power you can extract from the electricity is limited because you have been required to short your mains to keep it safe... and a load placed across a short isn't going to be able to draw much.



          Further to this, now that you've had to short the mains, there will be a current continually running - meaning a huge amount of power will be wasted.



          It gets worse.



          Passing a current through water will result in electrolysis resulting in a build up of hydrogen and oxygen in the pipe. Highly reactive gasses in a confined area is what results in explosions.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered yesterday









          UKMonkeyUKMonkey

          1214




          1214























              1












              $begingroup$

              Simple circuit Answer:



              It will never work , even if salt water (lossy), or pure dielectric Dk=80 water ( too small capacitance for a long gap between electrodes.





              schematic





              simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



              Your concept results in a short circuit to the grid with no power transfer.



              Two big theoretical problems: High VAR load and water flow restriction



              although water has Dk=80 the electrodes in C/2 must be large Area/gap to create a large capacitance.



              Since the electrode gap in the transmission line end-end is huge , you now have a a very high series impedance and the AC voltage is then attenuated by the impedance Ratio of high series and low load impedance.
              - thus the small gap would restrict flow of water.
              - and the shunt capacitance across the grid now acts as a reactive load which although is opposite 90 deg phase to inductive loads would refult in very poor Power Factor and high VAR losses






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$









              • 1




                $begingroup$
                How does the diagram relate to the question? I don’t know much about circuit diagrams
                $endgroup$
                – Jonathan Lam
                yesterday










              • $begingroup$
                If you do not know about VAR loads or circuit diagrams then you cannot understand the concept of a reactive load. to create the low capacitive impedance to transmit power at low frequency. This only works for microwave antenna stripline for impedance matching ( no water)
                $endgroup$
                – Sunnyskyguy EE75
                yesterday


















              1












              $begingroup$

              Simple circuit Answer:



              It will never work , even if salt water (lossy), or pure dielectric Dk=80 water ( too small capacitance for a long gap between electrodes.





              schematic





              simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



              Your concept results in a short circuit to the grid with no power transfer.



              Two big theoretical problems: High VAR load and water flow restriction



              although water has Dk=80 the electrodes in C/2 must be large Area/gap to create a large capacitance.



              Since the electrode gap in the transmission line end-end is huge , you now have a a very high series impedance and the AC voltage is then attenuated by the impedance Ratio of high series and low load impedance.
              - thus the small gap would restrict flow of water.
              - and the shunt capacitance across the grid now acts as a reactive load which although is opposite 90 deg phase to inductive loads would refult in very poor Power Factor and high VAR losses






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$









              • 1




                $begingroup$
                How does the diagram relate to the question? I don’t know much about circuit diagrams
                $endgroup$
                – Jonathan Lam
                yesterday










              • $begingroup$
                If you do not know about VAR loads or circuit diagrams then you cannot understand the concept of a reactive load. to create the low capacitive impedance to transmit power at low frequency. This only works for microwave antenna stripline for impedance matching ( no water)
                $endgroup$
                – Sunnyskyguy EE75
                yesterday
















              1












              1








              1





              $begingroup$

              Simple circuit Answer:



              It will never work , even if salt water (lossy), or pure dielectric Dk=80 water ( too small capacitance for a long gap between electrodes.





              schematic





              simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



              Your concept results in a short circuit to the grid with no power transfer.



              Two big theoretical problems: High VAR load and water flow restriction



              although water has Dk=80 the electrodes in C/2 must be large Area/gap to create a large capacitance.



              Since the electrode gap in the transmission line end-end is huge , you now have a a very high series impedance and the AC voltage is then attenuated by the impedance Ratio of high series and low load impedance.
              - thus the small gap would restrict flow of water.
              - and the shunt capacitance across the grid now acts as a reactive load which although is opposite 90 deg phase to inductive loads would refult in very poor Power Factor and high VAR losses






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$



              Simple circuit Answer:



              It will never work , even if salt water (lossy), or pure dielectric Dk=80 water ( too small capacitance for a long gap between electrodes.





              schematic





              simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab



              Your concept results in a short circuit to the grid with no power transfer.



              Two big theoretical problems: High VAR load and water flow restriction



              although water has Dk=80 the electrodes in C/2 must be large Area/gap to create a large capacitance.



              Since the electrode gap in the transmission line end-end is huge , you now have a a very high series impedance and the AC voltage is then attenuated by the impedance Ratio of high series and low load impedance.
              - thus the small gap would restrict flow of water.
              - and the shunt capacitance across the grid now acts as a reactive load which although is opposite 90 deg phase to inductive loads would refult in very poor Power Factor and high VAR losses







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited yesterday

























              answered yesterday









              Sunnyskyguy EE75Sunnyskyguy EE75

              71.8k227103




              71.8k227103








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                How does the diagram relate to the question? I don’t know much about circuit diagrams
                $endgroup$
                – Jonathan Lam
                yesterday










              • $begingroup$
                If you do not know about VAR loads or circuit diagrams then you cannot understand the concept of a reactive load. to create the low capacitive impedance to transmit power at low frequency. This only works for microwave antenna stripline for impedance matching ( no water)
                $endgroup$
                – Sunnyskyguy EE75
                yesterday
















              • 1




                $begingroup$
                How does the diagram relate to the question? I don’t know much about circuit diagrams
                $endgroup$
                – Jonathan Lam
                yesterday










              • $begingroup$
                If you do not know about VAR loads or circuit diagrams then you cannot understand the concept of a reactive load. to create the low capacitive impedance to transmit power at low frequency. This only works for microwave antenna stripline for impedance matching ( no water)
                $endgroup$
                – Sunnyskyguy EE75
                yesterday










              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              How does the diagram relate to the question? I don’t know much about circuit diagrams
              $endgroup$
              – Jonathan Lam
              yesterday




              $begingroup$
              How does the diagram relate to the question? I don’t know much about circuit diagrams
              $endgroup$
              – Jonathan Lam
              yesterday












              $begingroup$
              If you do not know about VAR loads or circuit diagrams then you cannot understand the concept of a reactive load. to create the low capacitive impedance to transmit power at low frequency. This only works for microwave antenna stripline for impedance matching ( no water)
              $endgroup$
              – Sunnyskyguy EE75
              yesterday






              $begingroup$
              If you do not know about VAR loads or circuit diagrams then you cannot understand the concept of a reactive load. to create the low capacitive impedance to transmit power at low frequency. This only works for microwave antenna stripline for impedance matching ( no water)
              $endgroup$
              – Sunnyskyguy EE75
              yesterday













              0












              $begingroup$

              Other answers have already covered why this isn't a good idea.



              What is a good idea is sharing a large-diameter pipe with other services where possible. There are already projects where sewer pipes have been used for fibre-optic connections, instead of digging a dedicated hole in the ground for your fibre. The fibre is small enough that it won't affect the sewer, there's no disturbance above ground along the route of the cable (which as well as being more convenient also makes it much cheaper), and it's better protected from being dug up accidentally. For example, this project around London.



              The thicker pipes for drinking water and thicker armoured cables for electrical power are less obvious wins, but could still use this. However most towns and cities already have this infrastructure in place, so there's no reason to change it; and new developments of course are free to lay services wherever they want whilst the diggers are still working. The difference for fibre of course is that it's a new service being retrofitted into the existing infrastructure.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                0












                $begingroup$

                Other answers have already covered why this isn't a good idea.



                What is a good idea is sharing a large-diameter pipe with other services where possible. There are already projects where sewer pipes have been used for fibre-optic connections, instead of digging a dedicated hole in the ground for your fibre. The fibre is small enough that it won't affect the sewer, there's no disturbance above ground along the route of the cable (which as well as being more convenient also makes it much cheaper), and it's better protected from being dug up accidentally. For example, this project around London.



                The thicker pipes for drinking water and thicker armoured cables for electrical power are less obvious wins, but could still use this. However most towns and cities already have this infrastructure in place, so there's no reason to change it; and new developments of course are free to lay services wherever they want whilst the diggers are still working. The difference for fibre of course is that it's a new service being retrofitted into the existing infrastructure.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  Other answers have already covered why this isn't a good idea.



                  What is a good idea is sharing a large-diameter pipe with other services where possible. There are already projects where sewer pipes have been used for fibre-optic connections, instead of digging a dedicated hole in the ground for your fibre. The fibre is small enough that it won't affect the sewer, there's no disturbance above ground along the route of the cable (which as well as being more convenient also makes it much cheaper), and it's better protected from being dug up accidentally. For example, this project around London.



                  The thicker pipes for drinking water and thicker armoured cables for electrical power are less obvious wins, but could still use this. However most towns and cities already have this infrastructure in place, so there's no reason to change it; and new developments of course are free to lay services wherever they want whilst the diggers are still working. The difference for fibre of course is that it's a new service being retrofitted into the existing infrastructure.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  Other answers have already covered why this isn't a good idea.



                  What is a good idea is sharing a large-diameter pipe with other services where possible. There are already projects where sewer pipes have been used for fibre-optic connections, instead of digging a dedicated hole in the ground for your fibre. The fibre is small enough that it won't affect the sewer, there's no disturbance above ground along the route of the cable (which as well as being more convenient also makes it much cheaper), and it's better protected from being dug up accidentally. For example, this project around London.



                  The thicker pipes for drinking water and thicker armoured cables for electrical power are less obvious wins, but could still use this. However most towns and cities already have this infrastructure in place, so there's no reason to change it; and new developments of course are free to lay services wherever they want whilst the diggers are still working. The difference for fibre of course is that it's a new service being retrofitted into the existing infrastructure.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered yesterday









                  GrahamGraham

                  2,924612




                  2,924612






















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                      Mikael Dúi Bolinder is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
















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