Rolling Stones Sway guitar solo chord function
I enjoy jamming over Sway by the Stones. The final solo is C minor pentatonic mainly played over two chords, C major and Bb major. While I understand why you would use a minor pentatonic on a major chord I was interested what the Bb chords function is in the end solo as it alternates with the C chord? Also where does it come from if we are playing in C major?
If the C where minor then it makes sense as the VII chord but in major?
Cheers!
guitar theory electric-bass-guitar solos
add a comment |
I enjoy jamming over Sway by the Stones. The final solo is C minor pentatonic mainly played over two chords, C major and Bb major. While I understand why you would use a minor pentatonic on a major chord I was interested what the Bb chords function is in the end solo as it alternates with the C chord? Also where does it come from if we are playing in C major?
If the C where minor then it makes sense as the VII chord but in major?
Cheers!
guitar theory electric-bass-guitar solos
add a comment |
I enjoy jamming over Sway by the Stones. The final solo is C minor pentatonic mainly played over two chords, C major and Bb major. While I understand why you would use a minor pentatonic on a major chord I was interested what the Bb chords function is in the end solo as it alternates with the C chord? Also where does it come from if we are playing in C major?
If the C where minor then it makes sense as the VII chord but in major?
Cheers!
guitar theory electric-bass-guitar solos
I enjoy jamming over Sway by the Stones. The final solo is C minor pentatonic mainly played over two chords, C major and Bb major. While I understand why you would use a minor pentatonic on a major chord I was interested what the Bb chords function is in the end solo as it alternates with the C chord? Also where does it come from if we are playing in C major?
If the C where minor then it makes sense as the VII chord but in major?
Cheers!
guitar theory electric-bass-guitar solos
guitar theory electric-bass-guitar solos
asked 11 hours ago
BabalumaBabaluma
824
824
add a comment |
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
...what the Bb chords function is in the end solo as it alternates with the C chord?
If it is just going like C Bb C Bb C Bb...
then looking for function doesn't make sense. It's static harmonically. You can just call this kind of two chord alternating a vamp. Function in the traditional sense is about predominant to dominant to tonic harmonic progression and cadences. Rock music often doesn't work that way. It's OK to abandon functional analysis when the music is working from that playbook.
...where does it [Bb major chord] come from if we are playing in C major?
You can call that a borrowed bVII
chord. Borrowed from the parallel minor. Or, you can think of it as the triad build on the lowered ^7
scale degree in C
major. That change to ^7
turns the C
major scale into C
Mixolydian mode. This is a kind of Mixolydian 'coloring' that is very common in rock music.
EDIT
@Ramillies raised an interesting point: why is Mixolydian mode popular in rock music?
I offer up these two explanations. Really it's just two sides of the same coin:
- Rock music especially works with grooves, patterns that repeat a lot with a strong rhythm. Inherent in the idea of groove is the repetition, it doesn't end. This is the antithesis of the classical cadence which gives music in that style structure through phrases with strong endings! From this perspective we can see that rock music will typically doesn't use cadences. The leading tone is essential for a formal cadence. Lower it (that's the lowered, Mixolydian
^7
scale degree) and technically the music will not be able to produce an authentic cadence. That removes a major musical factor that could disrupt the continuous flow of a groove. - The second part, closely related, is replacing the authentic cadence with the so-called plagal cadence
IV
toI
. I say "so-called" because rock music doesn't normally cadence - it doesn't stop and end phrases in the classical sense -IV
toI
would be better called a plagal progression but that's a separate matter. Anyway, this progression is hugely characteristic of rock music. It gives a strong sense of tonality without the strong sense of cadence implied byV
toI
. Add to this the fact that the lowered^7
degree over the tonic chord makes aV7/IV
chord - the dominanat seventh ofIV
- and we can see how shifting to the Mixolydian mode pushes the music toward theIV
chord.
Basically, lowering the ^7
degree moves the tonality away from authentic cadences with V
to I
and instead toward plagal progressions IV
to I
.
Keep in mind, when I say cadence and end this isn't the same as rest and silence. There are plenty of breaks to be heard in rock music. Those aren't cadences.
None of the above means that rock music doesn't use V
to I
. That's very common too. This is just my attempt to 'connect the dots' about several rock music characteristics: groove, Mixolydian, and IV
to I
.
add a comment |
It's flirting with things and keeping you in suspension. "Is this major or minor" and "where is the tonic" are the questions you're supposed to have.
There are many ways to look at it, but here are two of them:
- (1/2) C is the tonic, and the harmony is alternating or staying halfway between C major and C minor, just like what you do in rock/blues/jazz. On the Bb chords, the C minor interpretation feels slightly more obvious. In your solos, try bending the third between Eb and E, i.e. play in-between notes. As a soloist you get to influence how strongly the "C major" or the "C minor" story feels true!
- (2/2) C is the V and Bb is the IV of an F major tonic, where it never goes, so you don't get your release. You're being held in suspension indefinitely.
- (3/2) It's C mixolydian mode ... I don't like this explanation because it feels too academic and pompous. ;)
Try replacing the repeating C - Bb pattern with C - Gm. Does it work the same? Can you still flirt as freely with the E i.e. "it's C major", on the Gm chords? How about if you replace the C majors with minors, so Cm - Gm - what happens now? How about Cm - Bb? I recommend trying out different harmonic options in practice and soloing over those, to get to know first hand how the backing chord notes work together with your soloing notes. If you're brave enough, try ending the C - Bb vamp on a final Ab major chord - what happens to your harmonic interpretations? How about if you play Am as the final chord? I cannot stress the importance of experimentation enough. You learn to actually know things only by interacting with them. You can learn grammar and memorize words as much as you like, but when you actually have to get your business done buy using the language, it's worth more than a thousand grammar lessons.
The more theory-heavy answers are attracting more attention (c'mon, nerds!), but I like this answer a lot. It deals with theory to the extent necessary while also encouraging a playful spirit in improvising and capturing the contest between major and minor that's so essential to the sound of rock and roll.
– Max Kapur
4 hours ago
add a comment |
It's quite simple — it is borrowed from the C mixolydian mode. Which is a pretty awful name, but the concept is very simple.
For start, let's take the C major scale. Here it is, through two octaves:
And now, play all the same notes, just start with a G. You will get a "scale" that is highlighted in red. You can see that it's pretty much a G major scale, only with the 7th tone lowered. This is called the G mixolydian mode. (The name comes from the Ancient Greece. This (and the other mode names) were later taken over by the Roman Catholic Church, which used them for quite some different things, so the name has absolutely no meaning. It's just a millenium long tradition.)
Of course, we can transpose this around easily by noticing that the mixolydian mode is just a major scale with the 7th degree lowered. So a C mixolydian would look like this (look at the first bar):
Of course, you can stack the tones just as if you would with your normal C major scale, and generate some basic triads that go well with the mode. In the C major scale, you would get these triads: C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major and B diminished. When we flatten the 7th tone, you get the chords shown in the second bar above, namely C major, D minor, E diminished, F major, G minor, B flat major.
So a couple of chords changed, and from among the changes, your B flat major chord appears.
Now of course this doesn't explain why is it such a good idea to use it in a song, and that's always hard to tell, because the only real reason is just "it sounds good". However, I can at least try to give some theoretic reasons:
It's kinda the major scale that everybody hears 1000 times a day, but not quite. It adds a bit of novelty while not being anything totally weird.
To go deeper: in the major scale, the 7th tone is only a semitone from the tonic (the next tone). For instance, in C major, the 7th tone is B. For some reasons, this B can pull quite strongly towards the tonic (C). If you flatten it, it doesn't pull nearly as much, giving a different, maybe more "calm" sound.
Also Michael is very correct in saying that there are other possibilities of explaining the origins of this chord. That's always the case with the music theory; it's never set in stone. It's not math. With just two chords alternating, it's not possible to prefer any one explanation above the others, because the chords have pretty much zero harmonic functions. So this is just one view on it.
Good point about why? That's different that from where? I'm going to add a little extra to my answer.
– Michael Curtis
10 hours ago
1
why "borrowed from the C mixolydian mode"? If we're mentioning Mixolydian, can't we just say it is Mixolydian?
– topo morto
10 hours ago
@topomorto As to why the word "borrowed" is used, I think "borrowed from" conveys the sense of justifying the part based on another concept a little better than "is". Of course, that's my opinion, and it's not as though there has to be any specific justification anyway!
– user45266
8 hours ago
1
@user45266 but why does it make sense to say that there is a part based on another concept? If the whole chord progression fits Mixolydian, there seems no room for the concept of borrowing - or am I missing something?
– topo morto
8 hours ago
@topomorto — Sure we can. I guess that I'm so used to see these chords being just borrowed (my favorite example: E minor - A major - C major 7th - E minor) that I just automatically put that word in.
– Ramillies
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Having listened to the song,
The final solo is C minor pentatonic
To me it's C blues, with all the bends and blue notes that implies. The blues scale is in some places better expressed in terms of ranges though which notes can be bent, rather than specific notes.
Also where does it come from if we are playing in C major?
Again, I wouldn't describe it as C major. There are enough places where an Eb is hit to my ears to take it away from being major, and again, give it a feel that's best described as blues. There's a type of blues-rock harmony that is based around basing power chords on the 1, b3, 4, 5, and 7 degrees of the scale; that style is quite similar to what we have here (and can also be expressed in terms of the Mixolydian, as others have mentioned). There are E naturals in evidence too, but that is entirely in keeping with the major/minor ambiguity of the blues scale.
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "240"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f84194%2frolling-stones-sway-guitar-solo-chord-function%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
...what the Bb chords function is in the end solo as it alternates with the C chord?
If it is just going like C Bb C Bb C Bb...
then looking for function doesn't make sense. It's static harmonically. You can just call this kind of two chord alternating a vamp. Function in the traditional sense is about predominant to dominant to tonic harmonic progression and cadences. Rock music often doesn't work that way. It's OK to abandon functional analysis when the music is working from that playbook.
...where does it [Bb major chord] come from if we are playing in C major?
You can call that a borrowed bVII
chord. Borrowed from the parallel minor. Or, you can think of it as the triad build on the lowered ^7
scale degree in C
major. That change to ^7
turns the C
major scale into C
Mixolydian mode. This is a kind of Mixolydian 'coloring' that is very common in rock music.
EDIT
@Ramillies raised an interesting point: why is Mixolydian mode popular in rock music?
I offer up these two explanations. Really it's just two sides of the same coin:
- Rock music especially works with grooves, patterns that repeat a lot with a strong rhythm. Inherent in the idea of groove is the repetition, it doesn't end. This is the antithesis of the classical cadence which gives music in that style structure through phrases with strong endings! From this perspective we can see that rock music will typically doesn't use cadences. The leading tone is essential for a formal cadence. Lower it (that's the lowered, Mixolydian
^7
scale degree) and technically the music will not be able to produce an authentic cadence. That removes a major musical factor that could disrupt the continuous flow of a groove. - The second part, closely related, is replacing the authentic cadence with the so-called plagal cadence
IV
toI
. I say "so-called" because rock music doesn't normally cadence - it doesn't stop and end phrases in the classical sense -IV
toI
would be better called a plagal progression but that's a separate matter. Anyway, this progression is hugely characteristic of rock music. It gives a strong sense of tonality without the strong sense of cadence implied byV
toI
. Add to this the fact that the lowered^7
degree over the tonic chord makes aV7/IV
chord - the dominanat seventh ofIV
- and we can see how shifting to the Mixolydian mode pushes the music toward theIV
chord.
Basically, lowering the ^7
degree moves the tonality away from authentic cadences with V
to I
and instead toward plagal progressions IV
to I
.
Keep in mind, when I say cadence and end this isn't the same as rest and silence. There are plenty of breaks to be heard in rock music. Those aren't cadences.
None of the above means that rock music doesn't use V
to I
. That's very common too. This is just my attempt to 'connect the dots' about several rock music characteristics: groove, Mixolydian, and IV
to I
.
add a comment |
...what the Bb chords function is in the end solo as it alternates with the C chord?
If it is just going like C Bb C Bb C Bb...
then looking for function doesn't make sense. It's static harmonically. You can just call this kind of two chord alternating a vamp. Function in the traditional sense is about predominant to dominant to tonic harmonic progression and cadences. Rock music often doesn't work that way. It's OK to abandon functional analysis when the music is working from that playbook.
...where does it [Bb major chord] come from if we are playing in C major?
You can call that a borrowed bVII
chord. Borrowed from the parallel minor. Or, you can think of it as the triad build on the lowered ^7
scale degree in C
major. That change to ^7
turns the C
major scale into C
Mixolydian mode. This is a kind of Mixolydian 'coloring' that is very common in rock music.
EDIT
@Ramillies raised an interesting point: why is Mixolydian mode popular in rock music?
I offer up these two explanations. Really it's just two sides of the same coin:
- Rock music especially works with grooves, patterns that repeat a lot with a strong rhythm. Inherent in the idea of groove is the repetition, it doesn't end. This is the antithesis of the classical cadence which gives music in that style structure through phrases with strong endings! From this perspective we can see that rock music will typically doesn't use cadences. The leading tone is essential for a formal cadence. Lower it (that's the lowered, Mixolydian
^7
scale degree) and technically the music will not be able to produce an authentic cadence. That removes a major musical factor that could disrupt the continuous flow of a groove. - The second part, closely related, is replacing the authentic cadence with the so-called plagal cadence
IV
toI
. I say "so-called" because rock music doesn't normally cadence - it doesn't stop and end phrases in the classical sense -IV
toI
would be better called a plagal progression but that's a separate matter. Anyway, this progression is hugely characteristic of rock music. It gives a strong sense of tonality without the strong sense of cadence implied byV
toI
. Add to this the fact that the lowered^7
degree over the tonic chord makes aV7/IV
chord - the dominanat seventh ofIV
- and we can see how shifting to the Mixolydian mode pushes the music toward theIV
chord.
Basically, lowering the ^7
degree moves the tonality away from authentic cadences with V
to I
and instead toward plagal progressions IV
to I
.
Keep in mind, when I say cadence and end this isn't the same as rest and silence. There are plenty of breaks to be heard in rock music. Those aren't cadences.
None of the above means that rock music doesn't use V
to I
. That's very common too. This is just my attempt to 'connect the dots' about several rock music characteristics: groove, Mixolydian, and IV
to I
.
add a comment |
...what the Bb chords function is in the end solo as it alternates with the C chord?
If it is just going like C Bb C Bb C Bb...
then looking for function doesn't make sense. It's static harmonically. You can just call this kind of two chord alternating a vamp. Function in the traditional sense is about predominant to dominant to tonic harmonic progression and cadences. Rock music often doesn't work that way. It's OK to abandon functional analysis when the music is working from that playbook.
...where does it [Bb major chord] come from if we are playing in C major?
You can call that a borrowed bVII
chord. Borrowed from the parallel minor. Or, you can think of it as the triad build on the lowered ^7
scale degree in C
major. That change to ^7
turns the C
major scale into C
Mixolydian mode. This is a kind of Mixolydian 'coloring' that is very common in rock music.
EDIT
@Ramillies raised an interesting point: why is Mixolydian mode popular in rock music?
I offer up these two explanations. Really it's just two sides of the same coin:
- Rock music especially works with grooves, patterns that repeat a lot with a strong rhythm. Inherent in the idea of groove is the repetition, it doesn't end. This is the antithesis of the classical cadence which gives music in that style structure through phrases with strong endings! From this perspective we can see that rock music will typically doesn't use cadences. The leading tone is essential for a formal cadence. Lower it (that's the lowered, Mixolydian
^7
scale degree) and technically the music will not be able to produce an authentic cadence. That removes a major musical factor that could disrupt the continuous flow of a groove. - The second part, closely related, is replacing the authentic cadence with the so-called plagal cadence
IV
toI
. I say "so-called" because rock music doesn't normally cadence - it doesn't stop and end phrases in the classical sense -IV
toI
would be better called a plagal progression but that's a separate matter. Anyway, this progression is hugely characteristic of rock music. It gives a strong sense of tonality without the strong sense of cadence implied byV
toI
. Add to this the fact that the lowered^7
degree over the tonic chord makes aV7/IV
chord - the dominanat seventh ofIV
- and we can see how shifting to the Mixolydian mode pushes the music toward theIV
chord.
Basically, lowering the ^7
degree moves the tonality away from authentic cadences with V
to I
and instead toward plagal progressions IV
to I
.
Keep in mind, when I say cadence and end this isn't the same as rest and silence. There are plenty of breaks to be heard in rock music. Those aren't cadences.
None of the above means that rock music doesn't use V
to I
. That's very common too. This is just my attempt to 'connect the dots' about several rock music characteristics: groove, Mixolydian, and IV
to I
.
...what the Bb chords function is in the end solo as it alternates with the C chord?
If it is just going like C Bb C Bb C Bb...
then looking for function doesn't make sense. It's static harmonically. You can just call this kind of two chord alternating a vamp. Function in the traditional sense is about predominant to dominant to tonic harmonic progression and cadences. Rock music often doesn't work that way. It's OK to abandon functional analysis when the music is working from that playbook.
...where does it [Bb major chord] come from if we are playing in C major?
You can call that a borrowed bVII
chord. Borrowed from the parallel minor. Or, you can think of it as the triad build on the lowered ^7
scale degree in C
major. That change to ^7
turns the C
major scale into C
Mixolydian mode. This is a kind of Mixolydian 'coloring' that is very common in rock music.
EDIT
@Ramillies raised an interesting point: why is Mixolydian mode popular in rock music?
I offer up these two explanations. Really it's just two sides of the same coin:
- Rock music especially works with grooves, patterns that repeat a lot with a strong rhythm. Inherent in the idea of groove is the repetition, it doesn't end. This is the antithesis of the classical cadence which gives music in that style structure through phrases with strong endings! From this perspective we can see that rock music will typically doesn't use cadences. The leading tone is essential for a formal cadence. Lower it (that's the lowered, Mixolydian
^7
scale degree) and technically the music will not be able to produce an authentic cadence. That removes a major musical factor that could disrupt the continuous flow of a groove. - The second part, closely related, is replacing the authentic cadence with the so-called plagal cadence
IV
toI
. I say "so-called" because rock music doesn't normally cadence - it doesn't stop and end phrases in the classical sense -IV
toI
would be better called a plagal progression but that's a separate matter. Anyway, this progression is hugely characteristic of rock music. It gives a strong sense of tonality without the strong sense of cadence implied byV
toI
. Add to this the fact that the lowered^7
degree over the tonic chord makes aV7/IV
chord - the dominanat seventh ofIV
- and we can see how shifting to the Mixolydian mode pushes the music toward theIV
chord.
Basically, lowering the ^7
degree moves the tonality away from authentic cadences with V
to I
and instead toward plagal progressions IV
to I
.
Keep in mind, when I say cadence and end this isn't the same as rest and silence. There are plenty of breaks to be heard in rock music. Those aren't cadences.
None of the above means that rock music doesn't use V
to I
. That's very common too. This is just my attempt to 'connect the dots' about several rock music characteristics: groove, Mixolydian, and IV
to I
.
edited 9 hours ago
answered 10 hours ago
Michael CurtisMichael Curtis
12.7k946
12.7k946
add a comment |
add a comment |
It's flirting with things and keeping you in suspension. "Is this major or minor" and "where is the tonic" are the questions you're supposed to have.
There are many ways to look at it, but here are two of them:
- (1/2) C is the tonic, and the harmony is alternating or staying halfway between C major and C minor, just like what you do in rock/blues/jazz. On the Bb chords, the C minor interpretation feels slightly more obvious. In your solos, try bending the third between Eb and E, i.e. play in-between notes. As a soloist you get to influence how strongly the "C major" or the "C minor" story feels true!
- (2/2) C is the V and Bb is the IV of an F major tonic, where it never goes, so you don't get your release. You're being held in suspension indefinitely.
- (3/2) It's C mixolydian mode ... I don't like this explanation because it feels too academic and pompous. ;)
Try replacing the repeating C - Bb pattern with C - Gm. Does it work the same? Can you still flirt as freely with the E i.e. "it's C major", on the Gm chords? How about if you replace the C majors with minors, so Cm - Gm - what happens now? How about Cm - Bb? I recommend trying out different harmonic options in practice and soloing over those, to get to know first hand how the backing chord notes work together with your soloing notes. If you're brave enough, try ending the C - Bb vamp on a final Ab major chord - what happens to your harmonic interpretations? How about if you play Am as the final chord? I cannot stress the importance of experimentation enough. You learn to actually know things only by interacting with them. You can learn grammar and memorize words as much as you like, but when you actually have to get your business done buy using the language, it's worth more than a thousand grammar lessons.
The more theory-heavy answers are attracting more attention (c'mon, nerds!), but I like this answer a lot. It deals with theory to the extent necessary while also encouraging a playful spirit in improvising and capturing the contest between major and minor that's so essential to the sound of rock and roll.
– Max Kapur
4 hours ago
add a comment |
It's flirting with things and keeping you in suspension. "Is this major or minor" and "where is the tonic" are the questions you're supposed to have.
There are many ways to look at it, but here are two of them:
- (1/2) C is the tonic, and the harmony is alternating or staying halfway between C major and C minor, just like what you do in rock/blues/jazz. On the Bb chords, the C minor interpretation feels slightly more obvious. In your solos, try bending the third between Eb and E, i.e. play in-between notes. As a soloist you get to influence how strongly the "C major" or the "C minor" story feels true!
- (2/2) C is the V and Bb is the IV of an F major tonic, where it never goes, so you don't get your release. You're being held in suspension indefinitely.
- (3/2) It's C mixolydian mode ... I don't like this explanation because it feels too academic and pompous. ;)
Try replacing the repeating C - Bb pattern with C - Gm. Does it work the same? Can you still flirt as freely with the E i.e. "it's C major", on the Gm chords? How about if you replace the C majors with minors, so Cm - Gm - what happens now? How about Cm - Bb? I recommend trying out different harmonic options in practice and soloing over those, to get to know first hand how the backing chord notes work together with your soloing notes. If you're brave enough, try ending the C - Bb vamp on a final Ab major chord - what happens to your harmonic interpretations? How about if you play Am as the final chord? I cannot stress the importance of experimentation enough. You learn to actually know things only by interacting with them. You can learn grammar and memorize words as much as you like, but when you actually have to get your business done buy using the language, it's worth more than a thousand grammar lessons.
The more theory-heavy answers are attracting more attention (c'mon, nerds!), but I like this answer a lot. It deals with theory to the extent necessary while also encouraging a playful spirit in improvising and capturing the contest between major and minor that's so essential to the sound of rock and roll.
– Max Kapur
4 hours ago
add a comment |
It's flirting with things and keeping you in suspension. "Is this major or minor" and "where is the tonic" are the questions you're supposed to have.
There are many ways to look at it, but here are two of them:
- (1/2) C is the tonic, and the harmony is alternating or staying halfway between C major and C minor, just like what you do in rock/blues/jazz. On the Bb chords, the C minor interpretation feels slightly more obvious. In your solos, try bending the third between Eb and E, i.e. play in-between notes. As a soloist you get to influence how strongly the "C major" or the "C minor" story feels true!
- (2/2) C is the V and Bb is the IV of an F major tonic, where it never goes, so you don't get your release. You're being held in suspension indefinitely.
- (3/2) It's C mixolydian mode ... I don't like this explanation because it feels too academic and pompous. ;)
Try replacing the repeating C - Bb pattern with C - Gm. Does it work the same? Can you still flirt as freely with the E i.e. "it's C major", on the Gm chords? How about if you replace the C majors with minors, so Cm - Gm - what happens now? How about Cm - Bb? I recommend trying out different harmonic options in practice and soloing over those, to get to know first hand how the backing chord notes work together with your soloing notes. If you're brave enough, try ending the C - Bb vamp on a final Ab major chord - what happens to your harmonic interpretations? How about if you play Am as the final chord? I cannot stress the importance of experimentation enough. You learn to actually know things only by interacting with them. You can learn grammar and memorize words as much as you like, but when you actually have to get your business done buy using the language, it's worth more than a thousand grammar lessons.
It's flirting with things and keeping you in suspension. "Is this major or minor" and "where is the tonic" are the questions you're supposed to have.
There are many ways to look at it, but here are two of them:
- (1/2) C is the tonic, and the harmony is alternating or staying halfway between C major and C minor, just like what you do in rock/blues/jazz. On the Bb chords, the C minor interpretation feels slightly more obvious. In your solos, try bending the third between Eb and E, i.e. play in-between notes. As a soloist you get to influence how strongly the "C major" or the "C minor" story feels true!
- (2/2) C is the V and Bb is the IV of an F major tonic, where it never goes, so you don't get your release. You're being held in suspension indefinitely.
- (3/2) It's C mixolydian mode ... I don't like this explanation because it feels too academic and pompous. ;)
Try replacing the repeating C - Bb pattern with C - Gm. Does it work the same? Can you still flirt as freely with the E i.e. "it's C major", on the Gm chords? How about if you replace the C majors with minors, so Cm - Gm - what happens now? How about Cm - Bb? I recommend trying out different harmonic options in practice and soloing over those, to get to know first hand how the backing chord notes work together with your soloing notes. If you're brave enough, try ending the C - Bb vamp on a final Ab major chord - what happens to your harmonic interpretations? How about if you play Am as the final chord? I cannot stress the importance of experimentation enough. You learn to actually know things only by interacting with them. You can learn grammar and memorize words as much as you like, but when you actually have to get your business done buy using the language, it's worth more than a thousand grammar lessons.
edited 8 hours ago
answered 8 hours ago
piiperipiiperi
2,915513
2,915513
The more theory-heavy answers are attracting more attention (c'mon, nerds!), but I like this answer a lot. It deals with theory to the extent necessary while also encouraging a playful spirit in improvising and capturing the contest between major and minor that's so essential to the sound of rock and roll.
– Max Kapur
4 hours ago
add a comment |
The more theory-heavy answers are attracting more attention (c'mon, nerds!), but I like this answer a lot. It deals with theory to the extent necessary while also encouraging a playful spirit in improvising and capturing the contest between major and minor that's so essential to the sound of rock and roll.
– Max Kapur
4 hours ago
The more theory-heavy answers are attracting more attention (c'mon, nerds!), but I like this answer a lot. It deals with theory to the extent necessary while also encouraging a playful spirit in improvising and capturing the contest between major and minor that's so essential to the sound of rock and roll.
– Max Kapur
4 hours ago
The more theory-heavy answers are attracting more attention (c'mon, nerds!), but I like this answer a lot. It deals with theory to the extent necessary while also encouraging a playful spirit in improvising and capturing the contest between major and minor that's so essential to the sound of rock and roll.
– Max Kapur
4 hours ago
add a comment |
It's quite simple — it is borrowed from the C mixolydian mode. Which is a pretty awful name, but the concept is very simple.
For start, let's take the C major scale. Here it is, through two octaves:
And now, play all the same notes, just start with a G. You will get a "scale" that is highlighted in red. You can see that it's pretty much a G major scale, only with the 7th tone lowered. This is called the G mixolydian mode. (The name comes from the Ancient Greece. This (and the other mode names) were later taken over by the Roman Catholic Church, which used them for quite some different things, so the name has absolutely no meaning. It's just a millenium long tradition.)
Of course, we can transpose this around easily by noticing that the mixolydian mode is just a major scale with the 7th degree lowered. So a C mixolydian would look like this (look at the first bar):
Of course, you can stack the tones just as if you would with your normal C major scale, and generate some basic triads that go well with the mode. In the C major scale, you would get these triads: C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major and B diminished. When we flatten the 7th tone, you get the chords shown in the second bar above, namely C major, D minor, E diminished, F major, G minor, B flat major.
So a couple of chords changed, and from among the changes, your B flat major chord appears.
Now of course this doesn't explain why is it such a good idea to use it in a song, and that's always hard to tell, because the only real reason is just "it sounds good". However, I can at least try to give some theoretic reasons:
It's kinda the major scale that everybody hears 1000 times a day, but not quite. It adds a bit of novelty while not being anything totally weird.
To go deeper: in the major scale, the 7th tone is only a semitone from the tonic (the next tone). For instance, in C major, the 7th tone is B. For some reasons, this B can pull quite strongly towards the tonic (C). If you flatten it, it doesn't pull nearly as much, giving a different, maybe more "calm" sound.
Also Michael is very correct in saying that there are other possibilities of explaining the origins of this chord. That's always the case with the music theory; it's never set in stone. It's not math. With just two chords alternating, it's not possible to prefer any one explanation above the others, because the chords have pretty much zero harmonic functions. So this is just one view on it.
Good point about why? That's different that from where? I'm going to add a little extra to my answer.
– Michael Curtis
10 hours ago
1
why "borrowed from the C mixolydian mode"? If we're mentioning Mixolydian, can't we just say it is Mixolydian?
– topo morto
10 hours ago
@topomorto As to why the word "borrowed" is used, I think "borrowed from" conveys the sense of justifying the part based on another concept a little better than "is". Of course, that's my opinion, and it's not as though there has to be any specific justification anyway!
– user45266
8 hours ago
1
@user45266 but why does it make sense to say that there is a part based on another concept? If the whole chord progression fits Mixolydian, there seems no room for the concept of borrowing - or am I missing something?
– topo morto
8 hours ago
@topomorto — Sure we can. I guess that I'm so used to see these chords being just borrowed (my favorite example: E minor - A major - C major 7th - E minor) that I just automatically put that word in.
– Ramillies
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
It's quite simple — it is borrowed from the C mixolydian mode. Which is a pretty awful name, but the concept is very simple.
For start, let's take the C major scale. Here it is, through two octaves:
And now, play all the same notes, just start with a G. You will get a "scale" that is highlighted in red. You can see that it's pretty much a G major scale, only with the 7th tone lowered. This is called the G mixolydian mode. (The name comes from the Ancient Greece. This (and the other mode names) were later taken over by the Roman Catholic Church, which used them for quite some different things, so the name has absolutely no meaning. It's just a millenium long tradition.)
Of course, we can transpose this around easily by noticing that the mixolydian mode is just a major scale with the 7th degree lowered. So a C mixolydian would look like this (look at the first bar):
Of course, you can stack the tones just as if you would with your normal C major scale, and generate some basic triads that go well with the mode. In the C major scale, you would get these triads: C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major and B diminished. When we flatten the 7th tone, you get the chords shown in the second bar above, namely C major, D minor, E diminished, F major, G minor, B flat major.
So a couple of chords changed, and from among the changes, your B flat major chord appears.
Now of course this doesn't explain why is it such a good idea to use it in a song, and that's always hard to tell, because the only real reason is just "it sounds good". However, I can at least try to give some theoretic reasons:
It's kinda the major scale that everybody hears 1000 times a day, but not quite. It adds a bit of novelty while not being anything totally weird.
To go deeper: in the major scale, the 7th tone is only a semitone from the tonic (the next tone). For instance, in C major, the 7th tone is B. For some reasons, this B can pull quite strongly towards the tonic (C). If you flatten it, it doesn't pull nearly as much, giving a different, maybe more "calm" sound.
Also Michael is very correct in saying that there are other possibilities of explaining the origins of this chord. That's always the case with the music theory; it's never set in stone. It's not math. With just two chords alternating, it's not possible to prefer any one explanation above the others, because the chords have pretty much zero harmonic functions. So this is just one view on it.
Good point about why? That's different that from where? I'm going to add a little extra to my answer.
– Michael Curtis
10 hours ago
1
why "borrowed from the C mixolydian mode"? If we're mentioning Mixolydian, can't we just say it is Mixolydian?
– topo morto
10 hours ago
@topomorto As to why the word "borrowed" is used, I think "borrowed from" conveys the sense of justifying the part based on another concept a little better than "is". Of course, that's my opinion, and it's not as though there has to be any specific justification anyway!
– user45266
8 hours ago
1
@user45266 but why does it make sense to say that there is a part based on another concept? If the whole chord progression fits Mixolydian, there seems no room for the concept of borrowing - or am I missing something?
– topo morto
8 hours ago
@topomorto — Sure we can. I guess that I'm so used to see these chords being just borrowed (my favorite example: E minor - A major - C major 7th - E minor) that I just automatically put that word in.
– Ramillies
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
It's quite simple — it is borrowed from the C mixolydian mode. Which is a pretty awful name, but the concept is very simple.
For start, let's take the C major scale. Here it is, through two octaves:
And now, play all the same notes, just start with a G. You will get a "scale" that is highlighted in red. You can see that it's pretty much a G major scale, only with the 7th tone lowered. This is called the G mixolydian mode. (The name comes from the Ancient Greece. This (and the other mode names) were later taken over by the Roman Catholic Church, which used them for quite some different things, so the name has absolutely no meaning. It's just a millenium long tradition.)
Of course, we can transpose this around easily by noticing that the mixolydian mode is just a major scale with the 7th degree lowered. So a C mixolydian would look like this (look at the first bar):
Of course, you can stack the tones just as if you would with your normal C major scale, and generate some basic triads that go well with the mode. In the C major scale, you would get these triads: C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major and B diminished. When we flatten the 7th tone, you get the chords shown in the second bar above, namely C major, D minor, E diminished, F major, G minor, B flat major.
So a couple of chords changed, and from among the changes, your B flat major chord appears.
Now of course this doesn't explain why is it such a good idea to use it in a song, and that's always hard to tell, because the only real reason is just "it sounds good". However, I can at least try to give some theoretic reasons:
It's kinda the major scale that everybody hears 1000 times a day, but not quite. It adds a bit of novelty while not being anything totally weird.
To go deeper: in the major scale, the 7th tone is only a semitone from the tonic (the next tone). For instance, in C major, the 7th tone is B. For some reasons, this B can pull quite strongly towards the tonic (C). If you flatten it, it doesn't pull nearly as much, giving a different, maybe more "calm" sound.
Also Michael is very correct in saying that there are other possibilities of explaining the origins of this chord. That's always the case with the music theory; it's never set in stone. It's not math. With just two chords alternating, it's not possible to prefer any one explanation above the others, because the chords have pretty much zero harmonic functions. So this is just one view on it.
It's quite simple — it is borrowed from the C mixolydian mode. Which is a pretty awful name, but the concept is very simple.
For start, let's take the C major scale. Here it is, through two octaves:
And now, play all the same notes, just start with a G. You will get a "scale" that is highlighted in red. You can see that it's pretty much a G major scale, only with the 7th tone lowered. This is called the G mixolydian mode. (The name comes from the Ancient Greece. This (and the other mode names) were later taken over by the Roman Catholic Church, which used them for quite some different things, so the name has absolutely no meaning. It's just a millenium long tradition.)
Of course, we can transpose this around easily by noticing that the mixolydian mode is just a major scale with the 7th degree lowered. So a C mixolydian would look like this (look at the first bar):
Of course, you can stack the tones just as if you would with your normal C major scale, and generate some basic triads that go well with the mode. In the C major scale, you would get these triads: C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major and B diminished. When we flatten the 7th tone, you get the chords shown in the second bar above, namely C major, D minor, E diminished, F major, G minor, B flat major.
So a couple of chords changed, and from among the changes, your B flat major chord appears.
Now of course this doesn't explain why is it such a good idea to use it in a song, and that's always hard to tell, because the only real reason is just "it sounds good". However, I can at least try to give some theoretic reasons:
It's kinda the major scale that everybody hears 1000 times a day, but not quite. It adds a bit of novelty while not being anything totally weird.
To go deeper: in the major scale, the 7th tone is only a semitone from the tonic (the next tone). For instance, in C major, the 7th tone is B. For some reasons, this B can pull quite strongly towards the tonic (C). If you flatten it, it doesn't pull nearly as much, giving a different, maybe more "calm" sound.
Also Michael is very correct in saying that there are other possibilities of explaining the origins of this chord. That's always the case with the music theory; it's never set in stone. It's not math. With just two chords alternating, it's not possible to prefer any one explanation above the others, because the chords have pretty much zero harmonic functions. So this is just one view on it.
answered 10 hours ago
RamilliesRamillies
575210
575210
Good point about why? That's different that from where? I'm going to add a little extra to my answer.
– Michael Curtis
10 hours ago
1
why "borrowed from the C mixolydian mode"? If we're mentioning Mixolydian, can't we just say it is Mixolydian?
– topo morto
10 hours ago
@topomorto As to why the word "borrowed" is used, I think "borrowed from" conveys the sense of justifying the part based on another concept a little better than "is". Of course, that's my opinion, and it's not as though there has to be any specific justification anyway!
– user45266
8 hours ago
1
@user45266 but why does it make sense to say that there is a part based on another concept? If the whole chord progression fits Mixolydian, there seems no room for the concept of borrowing - or am I missing something?
– topo morto
8 hours ago
@topomorto — Sure we can. I guess that I'm so used to see these chords being just borrowed (my favorite example: E minor - A major - C major 7th - E minor) that I just automatically put that word in.
– Ramillies
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Good point about why? That's different that from where? I'm going to add a little extra to my answer.
– Michael Curtis
10 hours ago
1
why "borrowed from the C mixolydian mode"? If we're mentioning Mixolydian, can't we just say it is Mixolydian?
– topo morto
10 hours ago
@topomorto As to why the word "borrowed" is used, I think "borrowed from" conveys the sense of justifying the part based on another concept a little better than "is". Of course, that's my opinion, and it's not as though there has to be any specific justification anyway!
– user45266
8 hours ago
1
@user45266 but why does it make sense to say that there is a part based on another concept? If the whole chord progression fits Mixolydian, there seems no room for the concept of borrowing - or am I missing something?
– topo morto
8 hours ago
@topomorto — Sure we can. I guess that I'm so used to see these chords being just borrowed (my favorite example: E minor - A major - C major 7th - E minor) that I just automatically put that word in.
– Ramillies
8 hours ago
Good point about why? That's different that from where? I'm going to add a little extra to my answer.
– Michael Curtis
10 hours ago
Good point about why? That's different that from where? I'm going to add a little extra to my answer.
– Michael Curtis
10 hours ago
1
1
why "borrowed from the C mixolydian mode"? If we're mentioning Mixolydian, can't we just say it is Mixolydian?
– topo morto
10 hours ago
why "borrowed from the C mixolydian mode"? If we're mentioning Mixolydian, can't we just say it is Mixolydian?
– topo morto
10 hours ago
@topomorto As to why the word "borrowed" is used, I think "borrowed from" conveys the sense of justifying the part based on another concept a little better than "is". Of course, that's my opinion, and it's not as though there has to be any specific justification anyway!
– user45266
8 hours ago
@topomorto As to why the word "borrowed" is used, I think "borrowed from" conveys the sense of justifying the part based on another concept a little better than "is". Of course, that's my opinion, and it's not as though there has to be any specific justification anyway!
– user45266
8 hours ago
1
1
@user45266 but why does it make sense to say that there is a part based on another concept? If the whole chord progression fits Mixolydian, there seems no room for the concept of borrowing - or am I missing something?
– topo morto
8 hours ago
@user45266 but why does it make sense to say that there is a part based on another concept? If the whole chord progression fits Mixolydian, there seems no room for the concept of borrowing - or am I missing something?
– topo morto
8 hours ago
@topomorto — Sure we can. I guess that I'm so used to see these chords being just borrowed (my favorite example: E minor - A major - C major 7th - E minor) that I just automatically put that word in.
– Ramillies
8 hours ago
@topomorto — Sure we can. I guess that I'm so used to see these chords being just borrowed (my favorite example: E minor - A major - C major 7th - E minor) that I just automatically put that word in.
– Ramillies
8 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
Having listened to the song,
The final solo is C minor pentatonic
To me it's C blues, with all the bends and blue notes that implies. The blues scale is in some places better expressed in terms of ranges though which notes can be bent, rather than specific notes.
Also where does it come from if we are playing in C major?
Again, I wouldn't describe it as C major. There are enough places where an Eb is hit to my ears to take it away from being major, and again, give it a feel that's best described as blues. There's a type of blues-rock harmony that is based around basing power chords on the 1, b3, 4, 5, and 7 degrees of the scale; that style is quite similar to what we have here (and can also be expressed in terms of the Mixolydian, as others have mentioned). There are E naturals in evidence too, but that is entirely in keeping with the major/minor ambiguity of the blues scale.
add a comment |
Having listened to the song,
The final solo is C minor pentatonic
To me it's C blues, with all the bends and blue notes that implies. The blues scale is in some places better expressed in terms of ranges though which notes can be bent, rather than specific notes.
Also where does it come from if we are playing in C major?
Again, I wouldn't describe it as C major. There are enough places where an Eb is hit to my ears to take it away from being major, and again, give it a feel that's best described as blues. There's a type of blues-rock harmony that is based around basing power chords on the 1, b3, 4, 5, and 7 degrees of the scale; that style is quite similar to what we have here (and can also be expressed in terms of the Mixolydian, as others have mentioned). There are E naturals in evidence too, but that is entirely in keeping with the major/minor ambiguity of the blues scale.
add a comment |
Having listened to the song,
The final solo is C minor pentatonic
To me it's C blues, with all the bends and blue notes that implies. The blues scale is in some places better expressed in terms of ranges though which notes can be bent, rather than specific notes.
Also where does it come from if we are playing in C major?
Again, I wouldn't describe it as C major. There are enough places where an Eb is hit to my ears to take it away from being major, and again, give it a feel that's best described as blues. There's a type of blues-rock harmony that is based around basing power chords on the 1, b3, 4, 5, and 7 degrees of the scale; that style is quite similar to what we have here (and can also be expressed in terms of the Mixolydian, as others have mentioned). There are E naturals in evidence too, but that is entirely in keeping with the major/minor ambiguity of the blues scale.
Having listened to the song,
The final solo is C minor pentatonic
To me it's C blues, with all the bends and blue notes that implies. The blues scale is in some places better expressed in terms of ranges though which notes can be bent, rather than specific notes.
Also where does it come from if we are playing in C major?
Again, I wouldn't describe it as C major. There are enough places where an Eb is hit to my ears to take it away from being major, and again, give it a feel that's best described as blues. There's a type of blues-rock harmony that is based around basing power chords on the 1, b3, 4, 5, and 7 degrees of the scale; that style is quite similar to what we have here (and can also be expressed in terms of the Mixolydian, as others have mentioned). There are E naturals in evidence too, but that is entirely in keeping with the major/minor ambiguity of the blues scale.
answered 46 mins ago
topo mortotopo morto
27.4k246110
27.4k246110
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Music: Practice & Theory Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmusic.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f84194%2frolling-stones-sway-guitar-solo-chord-function%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown