What's the name of this grammar error: “due to him having…” [duplicate]





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This question already has an answer here:




  • When is a gerund supposed to be preceded by a possessive adjective/determiner?

    4 answers




I know there's something wrong with the way the indirect-object pronoun "him" and the gerund "having" are being used here, but I can't put my finger on it or find it on Google. Here's another example:



The whip was unable to muster the votes of her caucus members, due to them being divided over the amendments.










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marked as duplicate by sumelic, tchrist 1 hour ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.



















  • This error does not have a name.

    – Toothrot
    4 hours ago











  • But you could call it: the error of putting the subject of a gerund in the accusative rather than the genitive case.

    – Toothrot
    4 hours ago








  • 3





    What is the error???

    – Hot Licks
    4 hours ago


















1
















This question already has an answer here:




  • When is a gerund supposed to be preceded by a possessive adjective/determiner?

    4 answers




I know there's something wrong with the way the indirect-object pronoun "him" and the gerund "having" are being used here, but I can't put my finger on it or find it on Google. Here's another example:



The whip was unable to muster the votes of her caucus members, due to them being divided over the amendments.










share|improve this question







New contributor




Ignite Tutoring is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











marked as duplicate by sumelic, tchrist 1 hour ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.



















  • This error does not have a name.

    – Toothrot
    4 hours ago











  • But you could call it: the error of putting the subject of a gerund in the accusative rather than the genitive case.

    – Toothrot
    4 hours ago








  • 3





    What is the error???

    – Hot Licks
    4 hours ago














1












1








1









This question already has an answer here:




  • When is a gerund supposed to be preceded by a possessive adjective/determiner?

    4 answers




I know there's something wrong with the way the indirect-object pronoun "him" and the gerund "having" are being used here, but I can't put my finger on it or find it on Google. Here's another example:



The whip was unable to muster the votes of her caucus members, due to them being divided over the amendments.










share|improve this question







New contributor




Ignite Tutoring is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.













This question already has an answer here:




  • When is a gerund supposed to be preceded by a possessive adjective/determiner?

    4 answers




I know there's something wrong with the way the indirect-object pronoun "him" and the gerund "having" are being used here, but I can't put my finger on it or find it on Google. Here's another example:



The whip was unable to muster the votes of her caucus members, due to them being divided over the amendments.





This question already has an answer here:




  • When is a gerund supposed to be preceded by a possessive adjective/determiner?

    4 answers








gerunds personal-pronouns






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Ignite Tutoring is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question







New contributor




Ignite Tutoring is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question






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Ignite Tutoring is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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asked 5 hours ago









Ignite TutoringIgnite Tutoring

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New contributor




Ignite Tutoring is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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New contributor





Ignite Tutoring is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






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Check out our Code of Conduct.




marked as duplicate by sumelic, tchrist 1 hour ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.









marked as duplicate by sumelic, tchrist 1 hour ago


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.















  • This error does not have a name.

    – Toothrot
    4 hours ago











  • But you could call it: the error of putting the subject of a gerund in the accusative rather than the genitive case.

    – Toothrot
    4 hours ago








  • 3





    What is the error???

    – Hot Licks
    4 hours ago



















  • This error does not have a name.

    – Toothrot
    4 hours ago











  • But you could call it: the error of putting the subject of a gerund in the accusative rather than the genitive case.

    – Toothrot
    4 hours ago








  • 3





    What is the error???

    – Hot Licks
    4 hours ago

















This error does not have a name.

– Toothrot
4 hours ago





This error does not have a name.

– Toothrot
4 hours ago













But you could call it: the error of putting the subject of a gerund in the accusative rather than the genitive case.

– Toothrot
4 hours ago







But you could call it: the error of putting the subject of a gerund in the accusative rather than the genitive case.

– Toothrot
4 hours ago






3




3





What is the error???

– Hot Licks
4 hours ago





What is the error???

– Hot Licks
4 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















3














Both his having and him having are correct, in my view. This is counter-intuitive as we are used to one case being considered correct and one incorrect in what otherwise appears to be a single grammatical construction.



But there is an explanation in the history of English which relates to the perennial argument about whether -ing words are adjectives or nouns, and whether they should be called "present participles" or "gerunds"/"verbal nouns".



Originally there were two words: -ing which was a noun (so his having would be correct) and -and which was an adjective (like French ayant) (so him havand would be correct, in what is sometimes called an "absolute" construction, popular in Latin).



But since both words are now spelt the same we now have two completely different constructions (that would have much the same meaning) looking like variants of the same construction.






share|improve this answer


























  • You can't say that having is a noun in sentences like his having his own way bothered me because nouns don't take direct objects; only verbs do. The possessive determiner applies to the entire gerund clause. This is a bit odd, so it's little wonder that an oblique/accusative pronoun is commonly used there. Notice what happens with people having their own way bothers me: that proves you don't need the possessive due to its singular concord.

    – tchrist
    1 hour ago





















2














So far as a I can tell, as a native English speaker, there is nothing strictly ungrammatical about either of your examples.



Some rudimentary research, however, has turned up the equally grammatical "due to his having....". This may be why "due to him having...." sounds wrong to you.






share|improve this answer































    -2














    I'd use a possessive pronoun to modify the gerunds in your sentences ('his', 'their').



    Here's a link that discusses the issue, but doesn't really nail down the grammatical principle in play.






    share|improve this answer






























      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      3














      Both his having and him having are correct, in my view. This is counter-intuitive as we are used to one case being considered correct and one incorrect in what otherwise appears to be a single grammatical construction.



      But there is an explanation in the history of English which relates to the perennial argument about whether -ing words are adjectives or nouns, and whether they should be called "present participles" or "gerunds"/"verbal nouns".



      Originally there were two words: -ing which was a noun (so his having would be correct) and -and which was an adjective (like French ayant) (so him havand would be correct, in what is sometimes called an "absolute" construction, popular in Latin).



      But since both words are now spelt the same we now have two completely different constructions (that would have much the same meaning) looking like variants of the same construction.






      share|improve this answer


























      • You can't say that having is a noun in sentences like his having his own way bothered me because nouns don't take direct objects; only verbs do. The possessive determiner applies to the entire gerund clause. This is a bit odd, so it's little wonder that an oblique/accusative pronoun is commonly used there. Notice what happens with people having their own way bothers me: that proves you don't need the possessive due to its singular concord.

        – tchrist
        1 hour ago


















      3














      Both his having and him having are correct, in my view. This is counter-intuitive as we are used to one case being considered correct and one incorrect in what otherwise appears to be a single grammatical construction.



      But there is an explanation in the history of English which relates to the perennial argument about whether -ing words are adjectives or nouns, and whether they should be called "present participles" or "gerunds"/"verbal nouns".



      Originally there were two words: -ing which was a noun (so his having would be correct) and -and which was an adjective (like French ayant) (so him havand would be correct, in what is sometimes called an "absolute" construction, popular in Latin).



      But since both words are now spelt the same we now have two completely different constructions (that would have much the same meaning) looking like variants of the same construction.






      share|improve this answer


























      • You can't say that having is a noun in sentences like his having his own way bothered me because nouns don't take direct objects; only verbs do. The possessive determiner applies to the entire gerund clause. This is a bit odd, so it's little wonder that an oblique/accusative pronoun is commonly used there. Notice what happens with people having their own way bothers me: that proves you don't need the possessive due to its singular concord.

        – tchrist
        1 hour ago
















      3












      3








      3







      Both his having and him having are correct, in my view. This is counter-intuitive as we are used to one case being considered correct and one incorrect in what otherwise appears to be a single grammatical construction.



      But there is an explanation in the history of English which relates to the perennial argument about whether -ing words are adjectives or nouns, and whether they should be called "present participles" or "gerunds"/"verbal nouns".



      Originally there were two words: -ing which was a noun (so his having would be correct) and -and which was an adjective (like French ayant) (so him havand would be correct, in what is sometimes called an "absolute" construction, popular in Latin).



      But since both words are now spelt the same we now have two completely different constructions (that would have much the same meaning) looking like variants of the same construction.






      share|improve this answer















      Both his having and him having are correct, in my view. This is counter-intuitive as we are used to one case being considered correct and one incorrect in what otherwise appears to be a single grammatical construction.



      But there is an explanation in the history of English which relates to the perennial argument about whether -ing words are adjectives or nouns, and whether they should be called "present participles" or "gerunds"/"verbal nouns".



      Originally there were two words: -ing which was a noun (so his having would be correct) and -and which was an adjective (like French ayant) (so him havand would be correct, in what is sometimes called an "absolute" construction, popular in Latin).



      But since both words are now spelt the same we now have two completely different constructions (that would have much the same meaning) looking like variants of the same construction.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited 3 hours ago

























      answered 4 hours ago









      David RobinsonDavid Robinson

      2,814216




      2,814216













      • You can't say that having is a noun in sentences like his having his own way bothered me because nouns don't take direct objects; only verbs do. The possessive determiner applies to the entire gerund clause. This is a bit odd, so it's little wonder that an oblique/accusative pronoun is commonly used there. Notice what happens with people having their own way bothers me: that proves you don't need the possessive due to its singular concord.

        – tchrist
        1 hour ago





















      • You can't say that having is a noun in sentences like his having his own way bothered me because nouns don't take direct objects; only verbs do. The possessive determiner applies to the entire gerund clause. This is a bit odd, so it's little wonder that an oblique/accusative pronoun is commonly used there. Notice what happens with people having their own way bothers me: that proves you don't need the possessive due to its singular concord.

        – tchrist
        1 hour ago



















      You can't say that having is a noun in sentences like his having his own way bothered me because nouns don't take direct objects; only verbs do. The possessive determiner applies to the entire gerund clause. This is a bit odd, so it's little wonder that an oblique/accusative pronoun is commonly used there. Notice what happens with people having their own way bothers me: that proves you don't need the possessive due to its singular concord.

      – tchrist
      1 hour ago







      You can't say that having is a noun in sentences like his having his own way bothered me because nouns don't take direct objects; only verbs do. The possessive determiner applies to the entire gerund clause. This is a bit odd, so it's little wonder that an oblique/accusative pronoun is commonly used there. Notice what happens with people having their own way bothers me: that proves you don't need the possessive due to its singular concord.

      – tchrist
      1 hour ago















      2














      So far as a I can tell, as a native English speaker, there is nothing strictly ungrammatical about either of your examples.



      Some rudimentary research, however, has turned up the equally grammatical "due to his having....". This may be why "due to him having...." sounds wrong to you.






      share|improve this answer




























        2














        So far as a I can tell, as a native English speaker, there is nothing strictly ungrammatical about either of your examples.



        Some rudimentary research, however, has turned up the equally grammatical "due to his having....". This may be why "due to him having...." sounds wrong to you.






        share|improve this answer


























          2












          2








          2







          So far as a I can tell, as a native English speaker, there is nothing strictly ungrammatical about either of your examples.



          Some rudimentary research, however, has turned up the equally grammatical "due to his having....". This may be why "due to him having...." sounds wrong to you.






          share|improve this answer













          So far as a I can tell, as a native English speaker, there is nothing strictly ungrammatical about either of your examples.



          Some rudimentary research, however, has turned up the equally grammatical "due to his having....". This may be why "due to him having...." sounds wrong to you.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 5 hours ago









          No NameNo Name

          794




          794























              -2














              I'd use a possessive pronoun to modify the gerunds in your sentences ('his', 'their').



              Here's a link that discusses the issue, but doesn't really nail down the grammatical principle in play.






              share|improve this answer




























                -2














                I'd use a possessive pronoun to modify the gerunds in your sentences ('his', 'their').



                Here's a link that discusses the issue, but doesn't really nail down the grammatical principle in play.






                share|improve this answer


























                  -2












                  -2








                  -2







                  I'd use a possessive pronoun to modify the gerunds in your sentences ('his', 'their').



                  Here's a link that discusses the issue, but doesn't really nail down the grammatical principle in play.






                  share|improve this answer













                  I'd use a possessive pronoun to modify the gerunds in your sentences ('his', 'their').



                  Here's a link that discusses the issue, but doesn't really nail down the grammatical principle in play.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 5 hours ago









                  user888379user888379

                  11213




                  11213















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