Does the second part of the Wild Magic sorcerer's Tides of Chaos feature allow it to bypass the limitation of...





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I have a feeling I'm missing something obvious, but the Wild Magic sorcerer's Tides of Chaos feature (PHB, p. 103) states:




Starting at 1st level, you can manipulate the forces of chance and chaos to gain advantage on one attack roll, ability check, or saving throw. Once you do so, you must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again.




Which suggests that this is a once per long rest ability.



But it goes on to say:




Any time before you regain the use of this feature, the DM can have you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher. You then regain the use of this feature.




Which seems to suggest that you absolutely can use this more than once per long rest...as long as the DM has you roll on the Surge table after casting a spell of 1st level or higher.



Does that make it so that this feature is only once per long rest if the DM (or general wild magic) doesn't have you roll on the surge table before the end of the long rest? Otherwise, it's as many times as you want as long as you recharge it with a surge roll. Is my understanding correct?










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    $begingroup$
    Related on How do wild magic surge and tides of chaos interact?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    Apr 2 at 16:03


















5












$begingroup$


I have a feeling I'm missing something obvious, but the Wild Magic sorcerer's Tides of Chaos feature (PHB, p. 103) states:




Starting at 1st level, you can manipulate the forces of chance and chaos to gain advantage on one attack roll, ability check, or saving throw. Once you do so, you must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again.




Which suggests that this is a once per long rest ability.



But it goes on to say:




Any time before you regain the use of this feature, the DM can have you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher. You then regain the use of this feature.




Which seems to suggest that you absolutely can use this more than once per long rest...as long as the DM has you roll on the Surge table after casting a spell of 1st level or higher.



Does that make it so that this feature is only once per long rest if the DM (or general wild magic) doesn't have you roll on the surge table before the end of the long rest? Otherwise, it's as many times as you want as long as you recharge it with a surge roll. Is my understanding correct?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related on How do wild magic surge and tides of chaos interact?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    Apr 2 at 16:03














5












5








5





$begingroup$


I have a feeling I'm missing something obvious, but the Wild Magic sorcerer's Tides of Chaos feature (PHB, p. 103) states:




Starting at 1st level, you can manipulate the forces of chance and chaos to gain advantage on one attack roll, ability check, or saving throw. Once you do so, you must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again.




Which suggests that this is a once per long rest ability.



But it goes on to say:




Any time before you regain the use of this feature, the DM can have you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher. You then regain the use of this feature.




Which seems to suggest that you absolutely can use this more than once per long rest...as long as the DM has you roll on the Surge table after casting a spell of 1st level or higher.



Does that make it so that this feature is only once per long rest if the DM (or general wild magic) doesn't have you roll on the surge table before the end of the long rest? Otherwise, it's as many times as you want as long as you recharge it with a surge roll. Is my understanding correct?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




I have a feeling I'm missing something obvious, but the Wild Magic sorcerer's Tides of Chaos feature (PHB, p. 103) states:




Starting at 1st level, you can manipulate the forces of chance and chaos to gain advantage on one attack roll, ability check, or saving throw. Once you do so, you must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again.




Which suggests that this is a once per long rest ability.



But it goes on to say:




Any time before you regain the use of this feature, the DM can have you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher. You then regain the use of this feature.




Which seems to suggest that you absolutely can use this more than once per long rest...as long as the DM has you roll on the Surge table after casting a spell of 1st level or higher.



Does that make it so that this feature is only once per long rest if the DM (or general wild magic) doesn't have you roll on the surge table before the end of the long rest? Otherwise, it's as many times as you want as long as you recharge it with a surge roll. Is my understanding correct?







dnd-5e class-feature sorcerer wild-magic






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edited Apr 3 at 0:59









V2Blast

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asked Apr 2 at 16:02









NautArchNautArch

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61.9k8223410








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related on How do wild magic surge and tides of chaos interact?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    Apr 2 at 16:03














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related on How do wild magic surge and tides of chaos interact?
    $endgroup$
    – NautArch
    Apr 2 at 16:03








1




1




$begingroup$
Related on How do wild magic surge and tides of chaos interact?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Apr 2 at 16:03




$begingroup$
Related on How do wild magic surge and tides of chaos interact?
$endgroup$
– NautArch
Apr 2 at 16:03










4 Answers
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Yes, it bypasses the limitation



Tides of Chaos states that it recovers on a long rest so that you always have it available to you at the start of the day regardless of its availability prior to the long rest (i.e. you might have been completely out of spells).



From playing a Wild Magic Sorcerer, I've found that the feature is an inherent part of my play style, but to use it I am dependent upon the DM permitting the frequent surges. In general, I strived to use Tides of Chaos almost every round so that I could utilize the recharge when I cast a spell. This is sensible, as a lot of optimization strategies for Wild Magic revolve around being away from your party and close to the enemies for variable shenanigans (which would be a good name for a band).



As has been previously stated, Wild Magic Sorcerer requires cooperation from the DM to be playable and enjoyable; if your DM doesn't permit you to recharge Tides of Chaos regularly with surges, you often are a lot more ineffective than other origins. If your DM is forgetting about situations to trigger surges, it's prudent to remind them; if they are hardly ever permitting surges, I strongly recommend playing a different origin as you will struggle to be effective.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    It should also be noted that using Tides of Chaos "almost every round" gives advantage on an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check almost every round, in addition to providing all those wild magic surges.
    $endgroup$
    – mdrichey
    Apr 2 at 17:21



















3












$begingroup$

Yes, Tides of Chaos is 1/day, plus however many times it gets recharged



Or, your understanding is correct. You regain the use of the feature after a long rest, and you also can regain the use of the feature by the DM giving it to you (by making you roll a surge).



Your first rules quotation describes the general use-case for the feature (use it 1/day), while your second provides an exception (additionally use it whenever the DM wants to recharge it for you).






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    1












    $begingroup$

    Tides of Chaos' usage frequency depends on how your DM lets you use it



    The Wild Magic specialization is designed to be erratic, and Tides of Chaos adheres to this. If the DM does nothing, yes, the ability is usable once per long rest.



    However, if the ability is "cooling down" (i.e. has been used previously and you have not yet long rested to reset it), the DM can give the ability back to you without you having to long rest. But as a requirement for this feature, you must roll from the Wild Magic Table.



    So the amount of usage tour will get out of the ability depends on how often the DM decides s/he wants the sorcerer to have access to it.



    In one extreme, the sorcerer would be able to use Tides of Chaos only once per long rest. In the other (with a very permissive DM), you could use wild magic every turn of combat and roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to reset it for the next turn.



    From personal experience, it is best to work out a system with the DM before the campaign so you have an idea of this.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$





















      -1












      $begingroup$

      Based on my experience DMing a table with a wild magic sorcerer, a cycle of advantage --> spell --> surge, repeated multiple times per combat, limited only by spell slots, is too powerful at lower levels. Advantage is a powerful bonus, and some wild magic surge effects are very powerful too.



      For this reason, I take "you must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again" as gospel. Under this interpretation, the long rest must occur, but in addition, the DM may require a roll on the wild magic surge table before Tides of Chaos can be used again. I always have my sorcerer roll for a surge on the next non-cantrip spell she casts after her long rest. She can then use Tides of Chaos again. This gives the sorcerer one free roll with advantage, and one guaranteed surge, per long rest, plus a 5% chance of a surge when other spell slots are used, as opposed to many rolls with advantage and wild magic surges. This balances the wild magic sorcerer with the other characters at my table.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        To confirm, are you saying that the rules as written states that you can only do this 1/day - even if you roll on the surge table?
        $endgroup$
        – NautArch
        Apr 2 at 18:21










      • $begingroup$
        No, the other interpretations are valid. I'm saying that the rules can also be read to support my interpretation.
        $endgroup$
        – mdrichey
        Apr 2 at 18:23












      • $begingroup$
        Can you be clearer on that in your answer? But i'm still unclear what you're saying, to be honest. If you think the rules support your interpretation, please go through that logic.
        $endgroup$
        – NautArch
        Apr 2 at 18:24












      • $begingroup$
        @NautArch reworded. I just removed the bit about how the rule can be read as supporting my answer.
        $endgroup$
        – mdrichey
        Apr 2 at 18:32














      Your Answer





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      4 Answers
      4






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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

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      active

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      $begingroup$

      Yes, it bypasses the limitation



      Tides of Chaos states that it recovers on a long rest so that you always have it available to you at the start of the day regardless of its availability prior to the long rest (i.e. you might have been completely out of spells).



      From playing a Wild Magic Sorcerer, I've found that the feature is an inherent part of my play style, but to use it I am dependent upon the DM permitting the frequent surges. In general, I strived to use Tides of Chaos almost every round so that I could utilize the recharge when I cast a spell. This is sensible, as a lot of optimization strategies for Wild Magic revolve around being away from your party and close to the enemies for variable shenanigans (which would be a good name for a band).



      As has been previously stated, Wild Magic Sorcerer requires cooperation from the DM to be playable and enjoyable; if your DM doesn't permit you to recharge Tides of Chaos regularly with surges, you often are a lot more ineffective than other origins. If your DM is forgetting about situations to trigger surges, it's prudent to remind them; if they are hardly ever permitting surges, I strongly recommend playing a different origin as you will struggle to be effective.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$









      • 1




        $begingroup$
        It should also be noted that using Tides of Chaos "almost every round" gives advantage on an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check almost every round, in addition to providing all those wild magic surges.
        $endgroup$
        – mdrichey
        Apr 2 at 17:21
















      5












      $begingroup$

      Yes, it bypasses the limitation



      Tides of Chaos states that it recovers on a long rest so that you always have it available to you at the start of the day regardless of its availability prior to the long rest (i.e. you might have been completely out of spells).



      From playing a Wild Magic Sorcerer, I've found that the feature is an inherent part of my play style, but to use it I am dependent upon the DM permitting the frequent surges. In general, I strived to use Tides of Chaos almost every round so that I could utilize the recharge when I cast a spell. This is sensible, as a lot of optimization strategies for Wild Magic revolve around being away from your party and close to the enemies for variable shenanigans (which would be a good name for a band).



      As has been previously stated, Wild Magic Sorcerer requires cooperation from the DM to be playable and enjoyable; if your DM doesn't permit you to recharge Tides of Chaos regularly with surges, you often are a lot more ineffective than other origins. If your DM is forgetting about situations to trigger surges, it's prudent to remind them; if they are hardly ever permitting surges, I strongly recommend playing a different origin as you will struggle to be effective.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$









      • 1




        $begingroup$
        It should also be noted that using Tides of Chaos "almost every round" gives advantage on an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check almost every round, in addition to providing all those wild magic surges.
        $endgroup$
        – mdrichey
        Apr 2 at 17:21














      5












      5








      5





      $begingroup$

      Yes, it bypasses the limitation



      Tides of Chaos states that it recovers on a long rest so that you always have it available to you at the start of the day regardless of its availability prior to the long rest (i.e. you might have been completely out of spells).



      From playing a Wild Magic Sorcerer, I've found that the feature is an inherent part of my play style, but to use it I am dependent upon the DM permitting the frequent surges. In general, I strived to use Tides of Chaos almost every round so that I could utilize the recharge when I cast a spell. This is sensible, as a lot of optimization strategies for Wild Magic revolve around being away from your party and close to the enemies for variable shenanigans (which would be a good name for a band).



      As has been previously stated, Wild Magic Sorcerer requires cooperation from the DM to be playable and enjoyable; if your DM doesn't permit you to recharge Tides of Chaos regularly with surges, you often are a lot more ineffective than other origins. If your DM is forgetting about situations to trigger surges, it's prudent to remind them; if they are hardly ever permitting surges, I strongly recommend playing a different origin as you will struggle to be effective.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$



      Yes, it bypasses the limitation



      Tides of Chaos states that it recovers on a long rest so that you always have it available to you at the start of the day regardless of its availability prior to the long rest (i.e. you might have been completely out of spells).



      From playing a Wild Magic Sorcerer, I've found that the feature is an inherent part of my play style, but to use it I am dependent upon the DM permitting the frequent surges. In general, I strived to use Tides of Chaos almost every round so that I could utilize the recharge when I cast a spell. This is sensible, as a lot of optimization strategies for Wild Magic revolve around being away from your party and close to the enemies for variable shenanigans (which would be a good name for a band).



      As has been previously stated, Wild Magic Sorcerer requires cooperation from the DM to be playable and enjoyable; if your DM doesn't permit you to recharge Tides of Chaos regularly with surges, you often are a lot more ineffective than other origins. If your DM is forgetting about situations to trigger surges, it's prudent to remind them; if they are hardly ever permitting surges, I strongly recommend playing a different origin as you will struggle to be effective.







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited Apr 3 at 1:01









      V2Blast

      26.1k590159




      26.1k590159










      answered Apr 2 at 16:30









      PyrotechnicalPyrotechnical

      15.2k562139




      15.2k562139








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        It should also be noted that using Tides of Chaos "almost every round" gives advantage on an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check almost every round, in addition to providing all those wild magic surges.
        $endgroup$
        – mdrichey
        Apr 2 at 17:21














      • 1




        $begingroup$
        It should also be noted that using Tides of Chaos "almost every round" gives advantage on an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check almost every round, in addition to providing all those wild magic surges.
        $endgroup$
        – mdrichey
        Apr 2 at 17:21








      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      It should also be noted that using Tides of Chaos "almost every round" gives advantage on an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check almost every round, in addition to providing all those wild magic surges.
      $endgroup$
      – mdrichey
      Apr 2 at 17:21




      $begingroup$
      It should also be noted that using Tides of Chaos "almost every round" gives advantage on an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check almost every round, in addition to providing all those wild magic surges.
      $endgroup$
      – mdrichey
      Apr 2 at 17:21













      3












      $begingroup$

      Yes, Tides of Chaos is 1/day, plus however many times it gets recharged



      Or, your understanding is correct. You regain the use of the feature after a long rest, and you also can regain the use of the feature by the DM giving it to you (by making you roll a surge).



      Your first rules quotation describes the general use-case for the feature (use it 1/day), while your second provides an exception (additionally use it whenever the DM wants to recharge it for you).






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        3












        $begingroup$

        Yes, Tides of Chaos is 1/day, plus however many times it gets recharged



        Or, your understanding is correct. You regain the use of the feature after a long rest, and you also can regain the use of the feature by the DM giving it to you (by making you roll a surge).



        Your first rules quotation describes the general use-case for the feature (use it 1/day), while your second provides an exception (additionally use it whenever the DM wants to recharge it for you).






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          3












          3








          3





          $begingroup$

          Yes, Tides of Chaos is 1/day, plus however many times it gets recharged



          Or, your understanding is correct. You regain the use of the feature after a long rest, and you also can regain the use of the feature by the DM giving it to you (by making you roll a surge).



          Your first rules quotation describes the general use-case for the feature (use it 1/day), while your second provides an exception (additionally use it whenever the DM wants to recharge it for you).






          share|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Yes, Tides of Chaos is 1/day, plus however many times it gets recharged



          Or, your understanding is correct. You regain the use of the feature after a long rest, and you also can regain the use of the feature by the DM giving it to you (by making you roll a surge).



          Your first rules quotation describes the general use-case for the feature (use it 1/day), while your second provides an exception (additionally use it whenever the DM wants to recharge it for you).







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Apr 2 at 16:30









          GreySageGreySage

          16.3k453100




          16.3k453100























              1












              $begingroup$

              Tides of Chaos' usage frequency depends on how your DM lets you use it



              The Wild Magic specialization is designed to be erratic, and Tides of Chaos adheres to this. If the DM does nothing, yes, the ability is usable once per long rest.



              However, if the ability is "cooling down" (i.e. has been used previously and you have not yet long rested to reset it), the DM can give the ability back to you without you having to long rest. But as a requirement for this feature, you must roll from the Wild Magic Table.



              So the amount of usage tour will get out of the ability depends on how often the DM decides s/he wants the sorcerer to have access to it.



              In one extreme, the sorcerer would be able to use Tides of Chaos only once per long rest. In the other (with a very permissive DM), you could use wild magic every turn of combat and roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to reset it for the next turn.



              From personal experience, it is best to work out a system with the DM before the campaign so you have an idea of this.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                1












                $begingroup$

                Tides of Chaos' usage frequency depends on how your DM lets you use it



                The Wild Magic specialization is designed to be erratic, and Tides of Chaos adheres to this. If the DM does nothing, yes, the ability is usable once per long rest.



                However, if the ability is "cooling down" (i.e. has been used previously and you have not yet long rested to reset it), the DM can give the ability back to you without you having to long rest. But as a requirement for this feature, you must roll from the Wild Magic Table.



                So the amount of usage tour will get out of the ability depends on how often the DM decides s/he wants the sorcerer to have access to it.



                In one extreme, the sorcerer would be able to use Tides of Chaos only once per long rest. In the other (with a very permissive DM), you could use wild magic every turn of combat and roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to reset it for the next turn.



                From personal experience, it is best to work out a system with the DM before the campaign so you have an idea of this.






                share|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  Tides of Chaos' usage frequency depends on how your DM lets you use it



                  The Wild Magic specialization is designed to be erratic, and Tides of Chaos adheres to this. If the DM does nothing, yes, the ability is usable once per long rest.



                  However, if the ability is "cooling down" (i.e. has been used previously and you have not yet long rested to reset it), the DM can give the ability back to you without you having to long rest. But as a requirement for this feature, you must roll from the Wild Magic Table.



                  So the amount of usage tour will get out of the ability depends on how often the DM decides s/he wants the sorcerer to have access to it.



                  In one extreme, the sorcerer would be able to use Tides of Chaos only once per long rest. In the other (with a very permissive DM), you could use wild magic every turn of combat and roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to reset it for the next turn.



                  From personal experience, it is best to work out a system with the DM before the campaign so you have an idea of this.






                  share|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Tides of Chaos' usage frequency depends on how your DM lets you use it



                  The Wild Magic specialization is designed to be erratic, and Tides of Chaos adheres to this. If the DM does nothing, yes, the ability is usable once per long rest.



                  However, if the ability is "cooling down" (i.e. has been used previously and you have not yet long rested to reset it), the DM can give the ability back to you without you having to long rest. But as a requirement for this feature, you must roll from the Wild Magic Table.



                  So the amount of usage tour will get out of the ability depends on how often the DM decides s/he wants the sorcerer to have access to it.



                  In one extreme, the sorcerer would be able to use Tides of Chaos only once per long rest. In the other (with a very permissive DM), you could use wild magic every turn of combat and roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to reset it for the next turn.



                  From personal experience, it is best to work out a system with the DM before the campaign so you have an idea of this.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited Apr 3 at 1:02









                  V2Blast

                  26.1k590159




                  26.1k590159










                  answered Apr 2 at 16:37









                  RykaraRykara

                  5,0861141




                  5,0861141























                      -1












                      $begingroup$

                      Based on my experience DMing a table with a wild magic sorcerer, a cycle of advantage --> spell --> surge, repeated multiple times per combat, limited only by spell slots, is too powerful at lower levels. Advantage is a powerful bonus, and some wild magic surge effects are very powerful too.



                      For this reason, I take "you must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again" as gospel. Under this interpretation, the long rest must occur, but in addition, the DM may require a roll on the wild magic surge table before Tides of Chaos can be used again. I always have my sorcerer roll for a surge on the next non-cantrip spell she casts after her long rest. She can then use Tides of Chaos again. This gives the sorcerer one free roll with advantage, and one guaranteed surge, per long rest, plus a 5% chance of a surge when other spell slots are used, as opposed to many rolls with advantage and wild magic surges. This balances the wild magic sorcerer with the other characters at my table.






                      share|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        To confirm, are you saying that the rules as written states that you can only do this 1/day - even if you roll on the surge table?
                        $endgroup$
                        – NautArch
                        Apr 2 at 18:21










                      • $begingroup$
                        No, the other interpretations are valid. I'm saying that the rules can also be read to support my interpretation.
                        $endgroup$
                        – mdrichey
                        Apr 2 at 18:23












                      • $begingroup$
                        Can you be clearer on that in your answer? But i'm still unclear what you're saying, to be honest. If you think the rules support your interpretation, please go through that logic.
                        $endgroup$
                        – NautArch
                        Apr 2 at 18:24












                      • $begingroup$
                        @NautArch reworded. I just removed the bit about how the rule can be read as supporting my answer.
                        $endgroup$
                        – mdrichey
                        Apr 2 at 18:32


















                      -1












                      $begingroup$

                      Based on my experience DMing a table with a wild magic sorcerer, a cycle of advantage --> spell --> surge, repeated multiple times per combat, limited only by spell slots, is too powerful at lower levels. Advantage is a powerful bonus, and some wild magic surge effects are very powerful too.



                      For this reason, I take "you must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again" as gospel. Under this interpretation, the long rest must occur, but in addition, the DM may require a roll on the wild magic surge table before Tides of Chaos can be used again. I always have my sorcerer roll for a surge on the next non-cantrip spell she casts after her long rest. She can then use Tides of Chaos again. This gives the sorcerer one free roll with advantage, and one guaranteed surge, per long rest, plus a 5% chance of a surge when other spell slots are used, as opposed to many rolls with advantage and wild magic surges. This balances the wild magic sorcerer with the other characters at my table.






                      share|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        To confirm, are you saying that the rules as written states that you can only do this 1/day - even if you roll on the surge table?
                        $endgroup$
                        – NautArch
                        Apr 2 at 18:21










                      • $begingroup$
                        No, the other interpretations are valid. I'm saying that the rules can also be read to support my interpretation.
                        $endgroup$
                        – mdrichey
                        Apr 2 at 18:23












                      • $begingroup$
                        Can you be clearer on that in your answer? But i'm still unclear what you're saying, to be honest. If you think the rules support your interpretation, please go through that logic.
                        $endgroup$
                        – NautArch
                        Apr 2 at 18:24












                      • $begingroup$
                        @NautArch reworded. I just removed the bit about how the rule can be read as supporting my answer.
                        $endgroup$
                        – mdrichey
                        Apr 2 at 18:32
















                      -1












                      -1








                      -1





                      $begingroup$

                      Based on my experience DMing a table with a wild magic sorcerer, a cycle of advantage --> spell --> surge, repeated multiple times per combat, limited only by spell slots, is too powerful at lower levels. Advantage is a powerful bonus, and some wild magic surge effects are very powerful too.



                      For this reason, I take "you must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again" as gospel. Under this interpretation, the long rest must occur, but in addition, the DM may require a roll on the wild magic surge table before Tides of Chaos can be used again. I always have my sorcerer roll for a surge on the next non-cantrip spell she casts after her long rest. She can then use Tides of Chaos again. This gives the sorcerer one free roll with advantage, and one guaranteed surge, per long rest, plus a 5% chance of a surge when other spell slots are used, as opposed to many rolls with advantage and wild magic surges. This balances the wild magic sorcerer with the other characters at my table.






                      share|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$



                      Based on my experience DMing a table with a wild magic sorcerer, a cycle of advantage --> spell --> surge, repeated multiple times per combat, limited only by spell slots, is too powerful at lower levels. Advantage is a powerful bonus, and some wild magic surge effects are very powerful too.



                      For this reason, I take "you must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again" as gospel. Under this interpretation, the long rest must occur, but in addition, the DM may require a roll on the wild magic surge table before Tides of Chaos can be used again. I always have my sorcerer roll for a surge on the next non-cantrip spell she casts after her long rest. She can then use Tides of Chaos again. This gives the sorcerer one free roll with advantage, and one guaranteed surge, per long rest, plus a 5% chance of a surge when other spell slots are used, as opposed to many rolls with advantage and wild magic surges. This balances the wild magic sorcerer with the other characters at my table.







                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited Apr 2 at 18:37

























                      answered Apr 2 at 17:44









                      mdricheymdrichey

                      2,044743




                      2,044743












                      • $begingroup$
                        To confirm, are you saying that the rules as written states that you can only do this 1/day - even if you roll on the surge table?
                        $endgroup$
                        – NautArch
                        Apr 2 at 18:21










                      • $begingroup$
                        No, the other interpretations are valid. I'm saying that the rules can also be read to support my interpretation.
                        $endgroup$
                        – mdrichey
                        Apr 2 at 18:23












                      • $begingroup$
                        Can you be clearer on that in your answer? But i'm still unclear what you're saying, to be honest. If you think the rules support your interpretation, please go through that logic.
                        $endgroup$
                        – NautArch
                        Apr 2 at 18:24












                      • $begingroup$
                        @NautArch reworded. I just removed the bit about how the rule can be read as supporting my answer.
                        $endgroup$
                        – mdrichey
                        Apr 2 at 18:32




















                      • $begingroup$
                        To confirm, are you saying that the rules as written states that you can only do this 1/day - even if you roll on the surge table?
                        $endgroup$
                        – NautArch
                        Apr 2 at 18:21










                      • $begingroup$
                        No, the other interpretations are valid. I'm saying that the rules can also be read to support my interpretation.
                        $endgroup$
                        – mdrichey
                        Apr 2 at 18:23












                      • $begingroup$
                        Can you be clearer on that in your answer? But i'm still unclear what you're saying, to be honest. If you think the rules support your interpretation, please go through that logic.
                        $endgroup$
                        – NautArch
                        Apr 2 at 18:24












                      • $begingroup$
                        @NautArch reworded. I just removed the bit about how the rule can be read as supporting my answer.
                        $endgroup$
                        – mdrichey
                        Apr 2 at 18:32


















                      $begingroup$
                      To confirm, are you saying that the rules as written states that you can only do this 1/day - even if you roll on the surge table?
                      $endgroup$
                      – NautArch
                      Apr 2 at 18:21




                      $begingroup$
                      To confirm, are you saying that the rules as written states that you can only do this 1/day - even if you roll on the surge table?
                      $endgroup$
                      – NautArch
                      Apr 2 at 18:21












                      $begingroup$
                      No, the other interpretations are valid. I'm saying that the rules can also be read to support my interpretation.
                      $endgroup$
                      – mdrichey
                      Apr 2 at 18:23






                      $begingroup$
                      No, the other interpretations are valid. I'm saying that the rules can also be read to support my interpretation.
                      $endgroup$
                      – mdrichey
                      Apr 2 at 18:23














                      $begingroup$
                      Can you be clearer on that in your answer? But i'm still unclear what you're saying, to be honest. If you think the rules support your interpretation, please go through that logic.
                      $endgroup$
                      – NautArch
                      Apr 2 at 18:24






                      $begingroup$
                      Can you be clearer on that in your answer? But i'm still unclear what you're saying, to be honest. If you think the rules support your interpretation, please go through that logic.
                      $endgroup$
                      – NautArch
                      Apr 2 at 18:24














                      $begingroup$
                      @NautArch reworded. I just removed the bit about how the rule can be read as supporting my answer.
                      $endgroup$
                      – mdrichey
                      Apr 2 at 18:32






                      $begingroup$
                      @NautArch reworded. I just removed the bit about how the rule can be read as supporting my answer.
                      $endgroup$
                      – mdrichey
                      Apr 2 at 18:32




















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