Sorting and citation of names like “Heather Mac Donald”
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English and citation issue: A person, woman, Heather Mac Donald, the Mac part of the family name, right? Is it being used in sorting or would the person be sorted under Donald?
In sense of CSL 1.0.1 specification, is “Mac” a dropping particle, a non-dropping particle or something else entirely?
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wilx
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English and citation issue: A person, woman, Heather Mac Donald, the Mac part of the family name, right? Is it being used in sorting or would the person be sorted under Donald?
In sense of CSL 1.0.1 specification, is “Mac” a dropping particle, a non-dropping particle or something else entirely?
citation
asked 2 days ago
wilx
18315
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
English and citation issue: A person, woman, Heather Mac Donald, the Mac part of the family name, right? Is it being used in sorting or would the person be sorted under Donald?
In sense of CSL 1.0.1 specification, is “Mac” a dropping particle, a non-dropping particle or something else entirely?
citation
asked 2 days ago
wilx
18315
English and citation issue: A person, woman, Heather Mac Donald, the Mac part of the family name, right? Is it being used in sorting or would the person be sorted under Donald?
In sense of CSL 1.0.1 specification, is “Mac” a dropping particle, a non-dropping particle or something else entirely?
citation
citation
asked 2 days ago
wilx
18315
asked 2 days ago
wilx
18315
edited 2 days ago
asked 2 days ago
wilx
18315
asked 2 days ago
wilx
18315
asked 2 days ago
wilx
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18315
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2 Answers
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Mac and Mc (and rarely M') are not dropping particles and are usually not followed by a space. They may be something else. You would expect them to appear with other surnames starting with M.
There seem to be three approaches (Wikipedia has a slightly confused article):
- Treat them all as spelt Mac... so they all appear between Mabbutt and Madden - this is common with British telephone directories, library sorting and voters lists as it reduces the problems of common mispellings
- Treat them as spelt so those with Mac... appear between Mabbutt and Maddox while those with Mc... between Mbinda and Meacher - this is easiest to implement for the writer but may be less helpful if there is doubt about spelling
- Treat them as a different section immediately before the Ms - this is uncommon, and some names should perhaps not be included, such as Mack or Machado.
Whichever you choose, a further point is not to sort for case. Macintyre and MacIntyre should probably appear as if the same name. If you did have a case with Mac followed by a space, I would suggest ignoring the space, but this may be a more general collation issue: would you treat Delacroix and de la Croix as the same name?
You should probably not try to dig deeper. The Northern Irish politicians Ken Maginnis and Martin McGuinness had surnames which sounded pretty much the same, but the former would not expect to be included with the Macs.
You may hit a similar issue with some Irish names: the comedian Dara Ó Briain is often spelt O'Briain by those without the ability to use diacritics, so these should probably be sorted together, as part of the Os.
answered 2 days ago
Henry
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add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
'Mac' names are filed under M. They are usually written as one word, like Macdonald. Because it's not always easy to remember whether the person spells their name 'Mac...' or 'Mc...', the convention is to list such names in a single sequence as though they all began with Mac.
I was a professional library cataloguer for many years.
answered 2 days ago
Kate Bunting
4,99621313
Note, however, that people using non-Anglicised forms of Gaelic names may consider Mac to be a dropping particle, not part of the surname. So if Heather MacDonald/Macdonald/Mac Donald, assuming she’s Irish and did not marry into the name, chose to use the non-Anglicised form of her name, she may instead be listed as “Domhnaill, Heather Nic” or even (though less likely, I should think) “Dhomhnaill, Heather Nic”.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
Mac and Mc (and rarely M') are not dropping particles and are usually not followed by a space. They may be something else. You would expect them to appear with other surnames starting with M.
There seem to be three approaches (Wikipedia has a slightly confused article):
- Treat them all as spelt Mac... so they all appear between Mabbutt and Madden - this is common with British telephone directories, library sorting and voters lists as it reduces the problems of common mispellings
- Treat them as spelt so those with Mac... appear between Mabbutt and Maddox while those with Mc... between Mbinda and Meacher - this is easiest to implement for the writer but may be less helpful if there is doubt about spelling
- Treat them as a different section immediately before the Ms - this is uncommon, and some names should perhaps not be included, such as Mack or Machado.
Whichever you choose, a further point is not to sort for case. Macintyre and MacIntyre should probably appear as if the same name. If you did have a case with Mac followed by a space, I would suggest ignoring the space, but this may be a more general collation issue: would you treat Delacroix and de la Croix as the same name?
You should probably not try to dig deeper. The Northern Irish politicians Ken Maginnis and Martin McGuinness had surnames which sounded pretty much the same, but the former would not expect to be included with the Macs.
You may hit a similar issue with some Irish names: the comedian Dara Ó Briain is often spelt O'Briain by those without the ability to use diacritics, so these should probably be sorted together, as part of the Os.
answered 2 days ago
Henry
17k34158
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
Mac and Mc (and rarely M') are not dropping particles and are usually not followed by a space. They may be something else. You would expect them to appear with other surnames starting with M.
There seem to be three approaches (Wikipedia has a slightly confused article):
- Treat them all as spelt Mac... so they all appear between Mabbutt and Madden - this is common with British telephone directories, library sorting and voters lists as it reduces the problems of common mispellings
- Treat them as spelt so those with Mac... appear between Mabbutt and Maddox while those with Mc... between Mbinda and Meacher - this is easiest to implement for the writer but may be less helpful if there is doubt about spelling
- Treat them as a different section immediately before the Ms - this is uncommon, and some names should perhaps not be included, such as Mack or Machado.
Whichever you choose, a further point is not to sort for case. Macintyre and MacIntyre should probably appear as if the same name. If you did have a case with Mac followed by a space, I would suggest ignoring the space, but this may be a more general collation issue: would you treat Delacroix and de la Croix as the same name?
You should probably not try to dig deeper. The Northern Irish politicians Ken Maginnis and Martin McGuinness had surnames which sounded pretty much the same, but the former would not expect to be included with the Macs.
You may hit a similar issue with some Irish names: the comedian Dara Ó Briain is often spelt O'Briain by those without the ability to use diacritics, so these should probably be sorted together, as part of the Os.
answered 2 days ago
Henry
17k34158
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Mac and Mc (and rarely M') are not dropping particles and are usually not followed by a space. They may be something else. You would expect them to appear with other surnames starting with M.
There seem to be three approaches (Wikipedia has a slightly confused article):
- Treat them all as spelt Mac... so they all appear between Mabbutt and Madden - this is common with British telephone directories, library sorting and voters lists as it reduces the problems of common mispellings
- Treat them as spelt so those with Mac... appear between Mabbutt and Maddox while those with Mc... between Mbinda and Meacher - this is easiest to implement for the writer but may be less helpful if there is doubt about spelling
- Treat them as a different section immediately before the Ms - this is uncommon, and some names should perhaps not be included, such as Mack or Machado.
Whichever you choose, a further point is not to sort for case. Macintyre and MacIntyre should probably appear as if the same name. If you did have a case with Mac followed by a space, I would suggest ignoring the space, but this may be a more general collation issue: would you treat Delacroix and de la Croix as the same name?
You should probably not try to dig deeper. The Northern Irish politicians Ken Maginnis and Martin McGuinness had surnames which sounded pretty much the same, but the former would not expect to be included with the Macs.
You may hit a similar issue with some Irish names: the comedian Dara Ó Briain is often spelt O'Briain by those without the ability to use diacritics, so these should probably be sorted together, as part of the Os.
answered 2 days ago
Henry
17k34158
Mac and Mc (and rarely M') are not dropping particles and are usually not followed by a space. They may be something else. You would expect them to appear with other surnames starting with M.
There seem to be three approaches (Wikipedia has a slightly confused article):
- Treat them all as spelt Mac... so they all appear between Mabbutt and Madden - this is common with British telephone directories, library sorting and voters lists as it reduces the problems of common mispellings
- Treat them as spelt so those with Mac... appear between Mabbutt and Maddox while those with Mc... between Mbinda and Meacher - this is easiest to implement for the writer but may be less helpful if there is doubt about spelling
- Treat them as a different section immediately before the Ms - this is uncommon, and some names should perhaps not be included, such as Mack or Machado.
Whichever you choose, a further point is not to sort for case. Macintyre and MacIntyre should probably appear as if the same name. If you did have a case with Mac followed by a space, I would suggest ignoring the space, but this may be a more general collation issue: would you treat Delacroix and de la Croix as the same name?
You should probably not try to dig deeper. The Northern Irish politicians Ken Maginnis and Martin McGuinness had surnames which sounded pretty much the same, but the former would not expect to be included with the Macs.
You may hit a similar issue with some Irish names: the comedian Dara Ó Briain is often spelt O'Briain by those without the ability to use diacritics, so these should probably be sorted together, as part of the Os.
answered 2 days ago
Henry
17k34158
answered 2 days ago
Henry
17k34158
answered 2 days ago
Henry
17k34158
answered 2 days ago
Henry
17k34158
17k34158
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
'Mac' names are filed under M. They are usually written as one word, like Macdonald. Because it's not always easy to remember whether the person spells their name 'Mac...' or 'Mc...', the convention is to list such names in a single sequence as though they all began with Mac.
I was a professional library cataloguer for many years.
answered 2 days ago
Kate Bunting
4,99621313
Note, however, that people using non-Anglicised forms of Gaelic names may consider Mac to be a dropping particle, not part of the surname. So if Heather MacDonald/Macdonald/Mac Donald, assuming she’s Irish and did not marry into the name, chose to use the non-Anglicised form of her name, she may instead be listed as “Domhnaill, Heather Nic” or even (though less likely, I should think) “Dhomhnaill, Heather Nic”.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
'Mac' names are filed under M. They are usually written as one word, like Macdonald. Because it's not always easy to remember whether the person spells their name 'Mac...' or 'Mc...', the convention is to list such names in a single sequence as though they all began with Mac.
I was a professional library cataloguer for many years.
answered 2 days ago
Kate Bunting
4,99621313
Note, however, that people using non-Anglicised forms of Gaelic names may consider Mac to be a dropping particle, not part of the surname. So if Heather MacDonald/Macdonald/Mac Donald, assuming she’s Irish and did not marry into the name, chose to use the non-Anglicised form of her name, she may instead be listed as “Domhnaill, Heather Nic” or even (though less likely, I should think) “Dhomhnaill, Heather Nic”.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
'Mac' names are filed under M. They are usually written as one word, like Macdonald. Because it's not always easy to remember whether the person spells their name 'Mac...' or 'Mc...', the convention is to list such names in a single sequence as though they all began with Mac.
I was a professional library cataloguer for many years.
answered 2 days ago
Kate Bunting
4,99621313
'Mac' names are filed under M. They are usually written as one word, like Macdonald. Because it's not always easy to remember whether the person spells their name 'Mac...' or 'Mc...', the convention is to list such names in a single sequence as though they all began with Mac.
I was a professional library cataloguer for many years.
answered 2 days ago
Kate Bunting
4,99621313
answered 2 days ago
Kate Bunting
4,99621313
answered 2 days ago
Kate Bunting
4,99621313
answered 2 days ago
Kate Bunting
4,99621313
4,99621313
Note, however, that people using non-Anglicised forms of Gaelic names may consider Mac to be a dropping particle, not part of the surname. So if Heather MacDonald/Macdonald/Mac Donald, assuming she’s Irish and did not marry into the name, chose to use the non-Anglicised form of her name, she may instead be listed as “Domhnaill, Heather Nic” or even (though less likely, I should think) “Dhomhnaill, Heather Nic”.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago
add a comment |
Note, however, that people using non-Anglicised forms of Gaelic names may consider Mac to be a dropping particle, not part of the surname. So if Heather MacDonald/Macdonald/Mac Donald, assuming she’s Irish and did not marry into the name, chose to use the non-Anglicised form of her name, she may instead be listed as “Domhnaill, Heather Nic” or even (though less likely, I should think) “Dhomhnaill, Heather Nic”.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago
Note, however, that people using non-Anglicised forms of Gaelic names may consider Mac to be a dropping particle, not part of the surname. So if Heather MacDonald/Macdonald/Mac Donald, assuming she’s Irish and did not marry into the name, chose to use the non-Anglicised form of her name, she may instead be listed as “Domhnaill, Heather Nic” or even (though less likely, I should think) “Dhomhnaill, Heather Nic”.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago
Note, however, that people using non-Anglicised forms of Gaelic names may consider Mac to be a dropping particle, not part of the surname. So if Heather MacDonald/Macdonald/Mac Donald, assuming she’s Irish and did not marry into the name, chose to use the non-Anglicised form of her name, she may instead be listed as “Domhnaill, Heather Nic” or even (though less likely, I should think) “Dhomhnaill, Heather Nic”.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
2 days ago
add a comment |
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