Do wooden building fires get hotter than 600°C?












56















After the recent Notre-Dame de Paris fire, there has been a heavily re-posted tweet going around in response to an earlier claim that a golden cross did not melt or deform - due to an act of God.



enter image description here




the Notre Dame Cathedral was a wood fire, and as such could only have reached 600°C, while gold requires 1064°C to melt.




The melting point of gold varies based on purity, and can thus be lower than 1064°C.



However; do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?



I'm obviously not interested in any debate over whether this was an "Act of God" or other unprovable matters.



In terms of personal research, what I have found is that while wood itself will not burn much hotter than 600°C, once it turns to charcoal - it can then reach over 1100°C. However I don't know enough about physics/chemistry or fires, to make a reasonable judgement on how that applies in a real-life fire.










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  • 11





    The question about wood fire temps is valid, but the original Twitter statement with the pic is bogus. Look at many other pics of the damage (e.g. news.sky.com/story/…): the fire never reached that part of the church. Voting to close as not notable.

    – Jan Doggen
    yesterday






  • 114





    Never mind the gold cross, why aren't any of those wax candles melted?

    – plasticinsect
    yesterday






  • 4





    Related: Can you melt gold in a regular campfire?

    – LangLangC
    yesterday






  • 74





    @plasticinsect you nailed it: the candles which are designed to burn are not burned, hence there was no fire here. That's consistent with the reports that only the roof burned. The damage below was from falling debris, not fire.

    – TemporalWolf
    yesterday






  • 23





    The sequel to "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams" that nobody asked for.

    – R. Schmitz
    14 hours ago


















56















After the recent Notre-Dame de Paris fire, there has been a heavily re-posted tweet going around in response to an earlier claim that a golden cross did not melt or deform - due to an act of God.



enter image description here




the Notre Dame Cathedral was a wood fire, and as such could only have reached 600°C, while gold requires 1064°C to melt.




The melting point of gold varies based on purity, and can thus be lower than 1064°C.



However; do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?



I'm obviously not interested in any debate over whether this was an "Act of God" or other unprovable matters.



In terms of personal research, what I have found is that while wood itself will not burn much hotter than 600°C, once it turns to charcoal - it can then reach over 1100°C. However I don't know enough about physics/chemistry or fires, to make a reasonable judgement on how that applies in a real-life fire.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Bilkokuya is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 11





    The question about wood fire temps is valid, but the original Twitter statement with the pic is bogus. Look at many other pics of the damage (e.g. news.sky.com/story/…): the fire never reached that part of the church. Voting to close as not notable.

    – Jan Doggen
    yesterday






  • 114





    Never mind the gold cross, why aren't any of those wax candles melted?

    – plasticinsect
    yesterday






  • 4





    Related: Can you melt gold in a regular campfire?

    – LangLangC
    yesterday






  • 74





    @plasticinsect you nailed it: the candles which are designed to burn are not burned, hence there was no fire here. That's consistent with the reports that only the roof burned. The damage below was from falling debris, not fire.

    – TemporalWolf
    yesterday






  • 23





    The sequel to "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams" that nobody asked for.

    – R. Schmitz
    14 hours ago
















56












56








56


1






After the recent Notre-Dame de Paris fire, there has been a heavily re-posted tweet going around in response to an earlier claim that a golden cross did not melt or deform - due to an act of God.



enter image description here




the Notre Dame Cathedral was a wood fire, and as such could only have reached 600°C, while gold requires 1064°C to melt.




The melting point of gold varies based on purity, and can thus be lower than 1064°C.



However; do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?



I'm obviously not interested in any debate over whether this was an "Act of God" or other unprovable matters.



In terms of personal research, what I have found is that while wood itself will not burn much hotter than 600°C, once it turns to charcoal - it can then reach over 1100°C. However I don't know enough about physics/chemistry or fires, to make a reasonable judgement on how that applies in a real-life fire.










share|improve this question









New contributor




Bilkokuya is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












After the recent Notre-Dame de Paris fire, there has been a heavily re-posted tweet going around in response to an earlier claim that a golden cross did not melt or deform - due to an act of God.



enter image description here




the Notre Dame Cathedral was a wood fire, and as such could only have reached 600°C, while gold requires 1064°C to melt.




The melting point of gold varies based on purity, and can thus be lower than 1064°C.



However; do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?



I'm obviously not interested in any debate over whether this was an "Act of God" or other unprovable matters.



In terms of personal research, what I have found is that while wood itself will not burn much hotter than 600°C, once it turns to charcoal - it can then reach over 1100°C. However I don't know enough about physics/chemistry or fires, to make a reasonable judgement on how that applies in a real-life fire.







physics fire






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edited yesterday









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asked yesterday









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  • 11





    The question about wood fire temps is valid, but the original Twitter statement with the pic is bogus. Look at many other pics of the damage (e.g. news.sky.com/story/…): the fire never reached that part of the church. Voting to close as not notable.

    – Jan Doggen
    yesterday






  • 114





    Never mind the gold cross, why aren't any of those wax candles melted?

    – plasticinsect
    yesterday






  • 4





    Related: Can you melt gold in a regular campfire?

    – LangLangC
    yesterday






  • 74





    @plasticinsect you nailed it: the candles which are designed to burn are not burned, hence there was no fire here. That's consistent with the reports that only the roof burned. The damage below was from falling debris, not fire.

    – TemporalWolf
    yesterday






  • 23





    The sequel to "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams" that nobody asked for.

    – R. Schmitz
    14 hours ago
















  • 11





    The question about wood fire temps is valid, but the original Twitter statement with the pic is bogus. Look at many other pics of the damage (e.g. news.sky.com/story/…): the fire never reached that part of the church. Voting to close as not notable.

    – Jan Doggen
    yesterday






  • 114





    Never mind the gold cross, why aren't any of those wax candles melted?

    – plasticinsect
    yesterday






  • 4





    Related: Can you melt gold in a regular campfire?

    – LangLangC
    yesterday






  • 74





    @plasticinsect you nailed it: the candles which are designed to burn are not burned, hence there was no fire here. That's consistent with the reports that only the roof burned. The damage below was from falling debris, not fire.

    – TemporalWolf
    yesterday






  • 23





    The sequel to "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams" that nobody asked for.

    – R. Schmitz
    14 hours ago










11




11





The question about wood fire temps is valid, but the original Twitter statement with the pic is bogus. Look at many other pics of the damage (e.g. news.sky.com/story/…): the fire never reached that part of the church. Voting to close as not notable.

– Jan Doggen
yesterday





The question about wood fire temps is valid, but the original Twitter statement with the pic is bogus. Look at many other pics of the damage (e.g. news.sky.com/story/…): the fire never reached that part of the church. Voting to close as not notable.

– Jan Doggen
yesterday




114




114





Never mind the gold cross, why aren't any of those wax candles melted?

– plasticinsect
yesterday





Never mind the gold cross, why aren't any of those wax candles melted?

– plasticinsect
yesterday




4




4





Related: Can you melt gold in a regular campfire?

– LangLangC
yesterday





Related: Can you melt gold in a regular campfire?

– LangLangC
yesterday




74




74





@plasticinsect you nailed it: the candles which are designed to burn are not burned, hence there was no fire here. That's consistent with the reports that only the roof burned. The damage below was from falling debris, not fire.

– TemporalWolf
yesterday





@plasticinsect you nailed it: the candles which are designed to burn are not burned, hence there was no fire here. That's consistent with the reports that only the roof burned. The damage below was from falling debris, not fire.

– TemporalWolf
yesterday




23




23





The sequel to "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams" that nobody asked for.

– R. Schmitz
14 hours ago







The sequel to "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams" that nobody asked for.

– R. Schmitz
14 hours ago












6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes


















67














Without acknowledging any of the conditions actually present in the church, wood fires can get much hotter than 600°C.




The maximum temperatures measured within the pile were of the order of 800, 1000, and 1200 °C for piles composed of 1.27, 2.54, and 9.15 cm sticks respectively, although the maximum temperatures for a given size stick appeared, from all data obtained, to be somewhat dependent upon the structure of the pile. The prescribed temperature-time curve of a standard fire exposure test 1 is also shown in figure 4 from which a general agreement may be noted.
D Gross: "Experiments on the Burning of Cross Piles of Wood", Journal of Research of the National Bureau of Standards- C. Engineering and Instrumentation Vol. 66C, No.2, April-June 1962. (PDF)




A nice pile of wood with good ventilation can get apparently really hot:




Fire plume temperature data suggest a maximum turbulent flame temperature in fully developed compartment fires of about 1500 C for stoichiometric and adiabatic conditions. Experimental results for crib and pool fires are presented to support the trends indicated by the approximate analyses.



In general, from equations 12 and 13 for stoichiometric conditions, the temperature is given as



[MATH FORMULA]
enter image description here



where Tf,ad is the stoichiometric adiabatic flame temperature. Recorded gas temperatures near the ceiling are reported as high as 1350 C [21], and mean temperatures over the peak burning period are 1000 to 1200 C for polyethylene fires [21] and approximately 900 to 1200 C for wood cribs [20]. For turbulent fire plumes, having a radiative loss fraction Xr, a similar formula applies to the combustion region. This turbulent flame (centerline) temperature is given as [18]



[MATH FORMULA]
enter image description here



From the best available data [22–24], the turbulent mixing parameter, kT, is found to be approximately 0.5 for cp 1 kJ/kg K. As the fire diameter increases, the radiative fraction falls due to soot blockage [25]. Fig. 4 shows flame temperature data for turbulent plumes as a function of Xr. The extrapolated adiabatic temperature is approximately 1500 C. For a realistic adiabatic flame temperature of 2000 C, the actual turbulent mixing factor is approximately 0.75 or a turbulent dilution factor of 1.5. For a large fire in a compartment with large vents, the core maximum flame temperature should approach the turbulent adiabatic flame temperature.
James G. Quintiere: "Fire Behavior in Building Compartments", Proceedings of the Combustion Institute, Volume 29, 2002/pp. 181–193. DOI




But to be very sticklish, the claim is actually somewhat correct. Why?




enter image description hereenter image description here
M. J. Spearpoint And J. G. Quintiere: "Predicting the Burning of Wood Using an Integral Model", Combustion And Flame, 123:308–324 (2000). DOI




Or to put it simply:




A bonfire can reach temperatures as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit), which is hot enough to melt some metals.



Most types of wood will start combusting at about 300 degrees Celsius. The gases burn and increase the temperature of the wood to about 600 degrees Celsius (1,112 degrees Fahrenheit). When the wood has released all its gases, it leaves charcoal and ashes. Charcoal burns at temperatures exceeding 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit).
Gabriella Munoz: "How Hot Is a Bonfire?", Sciencing, April 26, 2018.




Wikpedia says




This is a rough guide to flame temperatures for various common substances (in 20 °C air at 1 atm. pressure):



Wood                    1,027 °C (1880.6 °F)
Methanol 1,200 °C (2192 °F)
Charcoal (forced draft) 1,390 °C (2534 °F)



and gives for adiabatic flame temperature maximum even:




Wood  Air 1980°C  3596°F





The French authorities seem to have suggested that inside the church 800°C might have been reached:




Contrairement aux pompiers américains, les sapeurs-pompiers français s’attaquent aux incendies par l’intérieur et non de l’extérieur. Cette tactique est plus dangereuse pour les hommes mais plus efficace pour sauver le patrimoine, observe l’expert Serge Delhaye. Si l’on se concentre sur l’extérieur, on prend le risque de repousser les flammes et les gaz chauds, qui peuvent atteindre 800 degrés, vers l’intérieur et accroître les dégâts. »
"Six questions sur l’incendie de Notre-Dame de Paris", Le Parisien, Jean-Michel Décugis, Vincent Gautronneau et Jérémie Pham-Lê| 15 avril 2019, 23h40




Most sources seem to quote a temperature of 1000°C for this incidence, but other sources even go up to 1400°C:




Fires peak at 1,400°C, explains professor Guillermo Rein, the head of Imperial College London's fire-studying Hazelab.
Nicole Kobie: "The hot, dangerous physics of fighting the Notre Dame fire", Wire, Tuesday 16 April 2019




Interestingly, the place where the cross is located is far away from where most of the flames ravaged, beneath a stone vault that remained largely intact. But nevertheless the wood that did burn on and in the roof was well seasoned, old, and dry.

But even fresh wood that would otherwise make for quite a suboptimal fuel burns often hotter than 600°C:




Q. At what temperatures do forest fires burn?

An average surface fire on the forest floor might have flames reaching 1 meter in height and can reach temperatures of 800°C (1,472° F) or more. Under extreme conditions a fire can give off 10,000 kilowatts or more per meter of fire front. This would mean flame heights of 50 meters or more and flame temperatures exceeding 1200°C (2,192° F).
(Natural History Museum of Utah: "Wildfires: Interesting Facts and F.A.Q." .PDF)







share|improve this answer


























  • I was about to add the translation of the French bit, but I wonder if that's truly a relevant thing to do, considering it gets readable enough when you copy paste it into DeepL.

    – Clockwork
    17 hours ago











  • Then again, what if a blind person stumbles on this answer... ?

    – Clockwork
    15 hours ago






  • 1





    However, OP didn't ask about wood in general, but explcitly "wooden buildings, such as Notre Dame", where the wood is far from a perfect pile

    – Hobbamok
    12 hours ago






  • 1





    @LangLangC I don't think I can do that. Technically, I can add some alt text that describes the formulas as e.g. "Uppercase T sub lowercase S lowercase T [...] lowercase H end sub minus uppercase T sub 0 end sub equals Δ H [...]", but that would be too cryptic for most people, let alone ones who do need screen-reading assistance. Any more reliable method (they do exist) would most probably be too much for a Stack Exchange post.

    – EKons
    3 hours ago






  • 1





    Experimental data point - my in-laws house burned down, and their aluminum window frames were little pools of resolidified metal on the ground. Aluminum melts at >650C (yes, I know it is actually an alloy, but not intentionally a low-melting point eutectic alloy).

    – Jon Custer
    3 hours ago



















51














Probably yes: According to at least one expert, the temperature in the Notre Dame fire must have been extremely high, and probably exceeded 600°C.



Yesterday the Süddeutsche Zeitung, one of Germany's most reputable newspapers, published an interview with the director of the German Technisches Hilfswerk (the Federal Agency for Technical Relief) and former director of the Fire Departments of Berlin, Albrecht Broemme. The interview covers several aspects of the Notre Dame fire (for example, Broemme explains why using water bombers was out of the question). He also discusses why this was an extraordinarily difficult task for the fire fighters. One reason he mentions is the extreme heat of the flames:




Der Farbe der Flammen nach zu urteilen müssen die Temperaturen bei 800, 900 Grad gelegen haben.




(My translation: "Judging from the color of the flames, temperatures must have been 800 or 900°C.")



Of course, this interview is not a peer-reviewed publication on the temperatures that wood fires can reach. However, based on this expert statement, there is little reason to doubt that a fire such as the Notre Dame fire can be far hotter than the 600°C the Twitter comment mentions. Note of course that his statement does not answer whether the fire was really hot enough to melt the golden altar cross, or whether the choir was actually exposed to this extreme temperature.






share|improve this answer

































    21














    Wood is a perfectly acceptable and common material used in metal forging even more so when it becomes partially combusted (charcoal). What really determines the heat though, is the amount of oxygen it can get. If there were medium-high winds blowing on the building it could have melted even steel beams.



    Reference: https://youtu.be/x_wYozMBWNk



    In that video you see a forge burning raw wood getting hot enough to make steel white which typically happens around 1200C (reference2: http://www.smex.net.au/reference/SteelColours02.php)






    share|improve this answer










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    • 15





      Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?

      – Jesse_b
      yesterday






    • 3





      skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi

      – Maxim
      yesterday






    • 3





      References added

      – Jesse_b
      yesterday






    • 7





      Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.

      – reirab
      yesterday






    • 7





      @Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.

      – EJoshuaS
      yesterday





















    9














    The entire type of assertion "if X is burning, and X is said to burn at Y temperature, then the fire cannot melt Z which melts at Z temperature" is fundamentally flawed at at least two levels.




    1. The burning point of a material is the usual minimum point where it starts to burn, but not the maximum temperature of a fire involving that material.


    2. The temperature that would apply to a melting point is the temperature of the air in the environment, and as Jesse_b very rightly answered, that temperature is more about air flow, and the overall situation of the space. The amount of burning fuel, amount of air in fire reactions, and the heat and air flow of the entire environment all contribute to how hot that environment gets.



    References:




    • I've completed courses in chemistry, and I have a good memory. Fire is an exothermic reaction, meaning it creates heat. The amount of heat released in an entire large fire is a factor of the amount of fuel consumed. The type of fuel (e.g. wood) merely determines the rate and surface temperature. The temperature of something that might be melted is based not on the temperature of some other nearby object, but on the temperature of the object that might melt, which is determined by how much heat it receives from all nearby sources, both through radiation and through contact with heated air and other heated objects.



    • "Primary combustion begins at about 540° F, continues toward 900° F
      and results in the release of a large amount of energy. [...] Primary
      combustion also releases large amounts of unburned combustible gases,
      including methane and methanol as well as more acid, water vapor and
      carbon dioxides. These gases, called secondary gases, contain up to 60
      percent of the potential heat in the wood. [...] The conditions needed
      to burn secondary gases are sufficient oxygen and temperatures of at
      least 1100° F. The air supply is critical. Too little air will not
      support combustion and too much will cool the temperature to a point
      where combustion cannot occur."



      (from "Stages of Wood Burning Combustion" by By Dwayne R Bennett - http://www.flameandcomfort.com/archives/blog/311)




    • "A bonfire should be treated with respect as it can reach temperatures
      as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit)."



      https://sciencing.com/hot-bonfire-8770.html








    share|improve this answer


























    • For whatever reason, many people seem to view a combustion point as similar to a boiling point, where an increase in temperature will increase the rate at which an endothermic process occurs, pushing the temperature downward. While mixtures (e.g. chafing fuels) can be formulated to behave that way, in most cases where fires get out of control, they do so because increasing temperatures increase the rate of exothermic reactions, resulting in thermal runaway.

      – supercat
      4 hours ago



















    3














    Additional thing to consider: Gold is highly reflective to radiated heat (infrared radiation) - it is used as a coating for fire-resistant clothing and spacecraft for that reason. What reflects does not get heated up by being irradiated, what isn't heated does not melt. Obviously heating by convection and conduction is not affected here.






    share|improve this answer








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    Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










    • 1





      The really important thing to consider is the fact that the fire was largely in the attic space, not the space pictured. You can see, for example, wax candles surviving behind the altar.

      – ceejayoz
      9 hours ago











    • This doesn't answer the question, and should be a comment???

      – Barry Harrison
      1 hour ago



















    1














    The size of the fire is important in this way: The greater the ratio of volume to surface area, the more heat will build up in the center before it can radiate away. This enables a larger fire to burn at a hotter temperature.



    As a more extreme example, take the sun. The nuclear fusion going in the sun's core is producing less energy per unit volume than a lizard's metabolism. However, the sun's immense size means it takes literally thousands of years for the heat to work its way to the surface, so it builds up.






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    6 Answers
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    6 Answers
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    active

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    active

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    67














    Without acknowledging any of the conditions actually present in the church, wood fires can get much hotter than 600°C.




    The maximum temperatures measured within the pile were of the order of 800, 1000, and 1200 °C for piles composed of 1.27, 2.54, and 9.15 cm sticks respectively, although the maximum temperatures for a given size stick appeared, from all data obtained, to be somewhat dependent upon the structure of the pile. The prescribed temperature-time curve of a standard fire exposure test 1 is also shown in figure 4 from which a general agreement may be noted.
    D Gross: "Experiments on the Burning of Cross Piles of Wood", Journal of Research of the National Bureau of Standards- C. Engineering and Instrumentation Vol. 66C, No.2, April-June 1962. (PDF)




    A nice pile of wood with good ventilation can get apparently really hot:




    Fire plume temperature data suggest a maximum turbulent flame temperature in fully developed compartment fires of about 1500 C for stoichiometric and adiabatic conditions. Experimental results for crib and pool fires are presented to support the trends indicated by the approximate analyses.



    In general, from equations 12 and 13 for stoichiometric conditions, the temperature is given as



    [MATH FORMULA]
    enter image description here



    where Tf,ad is the stoichiometric adiabatic flame temperature. Recorded gas temperatures near the ceiling are reported as high as 1350 C [21], and mean temperatures over the peak burning period are 1000 to 1200 C for polyethylene fires [21] and approximately 900 to 1200 C for wood cribs [20]. For turbulent fire plumes, having a radiative loss fraction Xr, a similar formula applies to the combustion region. This turbulent flame (centerline) temperature is given as [18]



    [MATH FORMULA]
    enter image description here



    From the best available data [22–24], the turbulent mixing parameter, kT, is found to be approximately 0.5 for cp 1 kJ/kg K. As the fire diameter increases, the radiative fraction falls due to soot blockage [25]. Fig. 4 shows flame temperature data for turbulent plumes as a function of Xr. The extrapolated adiabatic temperature is approximately 1500 C. For a realistic adiabatic flame temperature of 2000 C, the actual turbulent mixing factor is approximately 0.75 or a turbulent dilution factor of 1.5. For a large fire in a compartment with large vents, the core maximum flame temperature should approach the turbulent adiabatic flame temperature.
    James G. Quintiere: "Fire Behavior in Building Compartments", Proceedings of the Combustion Institute, Volume 29, 2002/pp. 181–193. DOI




    But to be very sticklish, the claim is actually somewhat correct. Why?




    enter image description hereenter image description here
    M. J. Spearpoint And J. G. Quintiere: "Predicting the Burning of Wood Using an Integral Model", Combustion And Flame, 123:308–324 (2000). DOI




    Or to put it simply:




    A bonfire can reach temperatures as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit), which is hot enough to melt some metals.



    Most types of wood will start combusting at about 300 degrees Celsius. The gases burn and increase the temperature of the wood to about 600 degrees Celsius (1,112 degrees Fahrenheit). When the wood has released all its gases, it leaves charcoal and ashes. Charcoal burns at temperatures exceeding 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit).
    Gabriella Munoz: "How Hot Is a Bonfire?", Sciencing, April 26, 2018.




    Wikpedia says




    This is a rough guide to flame temperatures for various common substances (in 20 °C air at 1 atm. pressure):



    Wood                    1,027 °C (1880.6 °F)
    Methanol 1,200 °C (2192 °F)
    Charcoal (forced draft) 1,390 °C (2534 °F)



    and gives for adiabatic flame temperature maximum even:




    Wood  Air 1980°C  3596°F





    The French authorities seem to have suggested that inside the church 800°C might have been reached:




    Contrairement aux pompiers américains, les sapeurs-pompiers français s’attaquent aux incendies par l’intérieur et non de l’extérieur. Cette tactique est plus dangereuse pour les hommes mais plus efficace pour sauver le patrimoine, observe l’expert Serge Delhaye. Si l’on se concentre sur l’extérieur, on prend le risque de repousser les flammes et les gaz chauds, qui peuvent atteindre 800 degrés, vers l’intérieur et accroître les dégâts. »
    "Six questions sur l’incendie de Notre-Dame de Paris", Le Parisien, Jean-Michel Décugis, Vincent Gautronneau et Jérémie Pham-Lê| 15 avril 2019, 23h40




    Most sources seem to quote a temperature of 1000°C for this incidence, but other sources even go up to 1400°C:




    Fires peak at 1,400°C, explains professor Guillermo Rein, the head of Imperial College London's fire-studying Hazelab.
    Nicole Kobie: "The hot, dangerous physics of fighting the Notre Dame fire", Wire, Tuesday 16 April 2019




    Interestingly, the place where the cross is located is far away from where most of the flames ravaged, beneath a stone vault that remained largely intact. But nevertheless the wood that did burn on and in the roof was well seasoned, old, and dry.

    But even fresh wood that would otherwise make for quite a suboptimal fuel burns often hotter than 600°C:




    Q. At what temperatures do forest fires burn?

    An average surface fire on the forest floor might have flames reaching 1 meter in height and can reach temperatures of 800°C (1,472° F) or more. Under extreme conditions a fire can give off 10,000 kilowatts or more per meter of fire front. This would mean flame heights of 50 meters or more and flame temperatures exceeding 1200°C (2,192° F).
    (Natural History Museum of Utah: "Wildfires: Interesting Facts and F.A.Q." .PDF)







    share|improve this answer


























    • I was about to add the translation of the French bit, but I wonder if that's truly a relevant thing to do, considering it gets readable enough when you copy paste it into DeepL.

      – Clockwork
      17 hours ago











    • Then again, what if a blind person stumbles on this answer... ?

      – Clockwork
      15 hours ago






    • 1





      However, OP didn't ask about wood in general, but explcitly "wooden buildings, such as Notre Dame", where the wood is far from a perfect pile

      – Hobbamok
      12 hours ago






    • 1





      @LangLangC I don't think I can do that. Technically, I can add some alt text that describes the formulas as e.g. "Uppercase T sub lowercase S lowercase T [...] lowercase H end sub minus uppercase T sub 0 end sub equals Δ H [...]", but that would be too cryptic for most people, let alone ones who do need screen-reading assistance. Any more reliable method (they do exist) would most probably be too much for a Stack Exchange post.

      – EKons
      3 hours ago






    • 1





      Experimental data point - my in-laws house burned down, and their aluminum window frames were little pools of resolidified metal on the ground. Aluminum melts at >650C (yes, I know it is actually an alloy, but not intentionally a low-melting point eutectic alloy).

      – Jon Custer
      3 hours ago
















    67














    Without acknowledging any of the conditions actually present in the church, wood fires can get much hotter than 600°C.




    The maximum temperatures measured within the pile were of the order of 800, 1000, and 1200 °C for piles composed of 1.27, 2.54, and 9.15 cm sticks respectively, although the maximum temperatures for a given size stick appeared, from all data obtained, to be somewhat dependent upon the structure of the pile. The prescribed temperature-time curve of a standard fire exposure test 1 is also shown in figure 4 from which a general agreement may be noted.
    D Gross: "Experiments on the Burning of Cross Piles of Wood", Journal of Research of the National Bureau of Standards- C. Engineering and Instrumentation Vol. 66C, No.2, April-June 1962. (PDF)




    A nice pile of wood with good ventilation can get apparently really hot:




    Fire plume temperature data suggest a maximum turbulent flame temperature in fully developed compartment fires of about 1500 C for stoichiometric and adiabatic conditions. Experimental results for crib and pool fires are presented to support the trends indicated by the approximate analyses.



    In general, from equations 12 and 13 for stoichiometric conditions, the temperature is given as



    [MATH FORMULA]
    enter image description here



    where Tf,ad is the stoichiometric adiabatic flame temperature. Recorded gas temperatures near the ceiling are reported as high as 1350 C [21], and mean temperatures over the peak burning period are 1000 to 1200 C for polyethylene fires [21] and approximately 900 to 1200 C for wood cribs [20]. For turbulent fire plumes, having a radiative loss fraction Xr, a similar formula applies to the combustion region. This turbulent flame (centerline) temperature is given as [18]



    [MATH FORMULA]
    enter image description here



    From the best available data [22–24], the turbulent mixing parameter, kT, is found to be approximately 0.5 for cp 1 kJ/kg K. As the fire diameter increases, the radiative fraction falls due to soot blockage [25]. Fig. 4 shows flame temperature data for turbulent plumes as a function of Xr. The extrapolated adiabatic temperature is approximately 1500 C. For a realistic adiabatic flame temperature of 2000 C, the actual turbulent mixing factor is approximately 0.75 or a turbulent dilution factor of 1.5. For a large fire in a compartment with large vents, the core maximum flame temperature should approach the turbulent adiabatic flame temperature.
    James G. Quintiere: "Fire Behavior in Building Compartments", Proceedings of the Combustion Institute, Volume 29, 2002/pp. 181–193. DOI




    But to be very sticklish, the claim is actually somewhat correct. Why?




    enter image description hereenter image description here
    M. J. Spearpoint And J. G. Quintiere: "Predicting the Burning of Wood Using an Integral Model", Combustion And Flame, 123:308–324 (2000). DOI




    Or to put it simply:




    A bonfire can reach temperatures as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit), which is hot enough to melt some metals.



    Most types of wood will start combusting at about 300 degrees Celsius. The gases burn and increase the temperature of the wood to about 600 degrees Celsius (1,112 degrees Fahrenheit). When the wood has released all its gases, it leaves charcoal and ashes. Charcoal burns at temperatures exceeding 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit).
    Gabriella Munoz: "How Hot Is a Bonfire?", Sciencing, April 26, 2018.




    Wikpedia says




    This is a rough guide to flame temperatures for various common substances (in 20 °C air at 1 atm. pressure):



    Wood                    1,027 °C (1880.6 °F)
    Methanol 1,200 °C (2192 °F)
    Charcoal (forced draft) 1,390 °C (2534 °F)



    and gives for adiabatic flame temperature maximum even:




    Wood  Air 1980°C  3596°F





    The French authorities seem to have suggested that inside the church 800°C might have been reached:




    Contrairement aux pompiers américains, les sapeurs-pompiers français s’attaquent aux incendies par l’intérieur et non de l’extérieur. Cette tactique est plus dangereuse pour les hommes mais plus efficace pour sauver le patrimoine, observe l’expert Serge Delhaye. Si l’on se concentre sur l’extérieur, on prend le risque de repousser les flammes et les gaz chauds, qui peuvent atteindre 800 degrés, vers l’intérieur et accroître les dégâts. »
    "Six questions sur l’incendie de Notre-Dame de Paris", Le Parisien, Jean-Michel Décugis, Vincent Gautronneau et Jérémie Pham-Lê| 15 avril 2019, 23h40




    Most sources seem to quote a temperature of 1000°C for this incidence, but other sources even go up to 1400°C:




    Fires peak at 1,400°C, explains professor Guillermo Rein, the head of Imperial College London's fire-studying Hazelab.
    Nicole Kobie: "The hot, dangerous physics of fighting the Notre Dame fire", Wire, Tuesday 16 April 2019




    Interestingly, the place where the cross is located is far away from where most of the flames ravaged, beneath a stone vault that remained largely intact. But nevertheless the wood that did burn on and in the roof was well seasoned, old, and dry.

    But even fresh wood that would otherwise make for quite a suboptimal fuel burns often hotter than 600°C:




    Q. At what temperatures do forest fires burn?

    An average surface fire on the forest floor might have flames reaching 1 meter in height and can reach temperatures of 800°C (1,472° F) or more. Under extreme conditions a fire can give off 10,000 kilowatts or more per meter of fire front. This would mean flame heights of 50 meters or more and flame temperatures exceeding 1200°C (2,192° F).
    (Natural History Museum of Utah: "Wildfires: Interesting Facts and F.A.Q." .PDF)







    share|improve this answer


























    • I was about to add the translation of the French bit, but I wonder if that's truly a relevant thing to do, considering it gets readable enough when you copy paste it into DeepL.

      – Clockwork
      17 hours ago











    • Then again, what if a blind person stumbles on this answer... ?

      – Clockwork
      15 hours ago






    • 1





      However, OP didn't ask about wood in general, but explcitly "wooden buildings, such as Notre Dame", where the wood is far from a perfect pile

      – Hobbamok
      12 hours ago






    • 1





      @LangLangC I don't think I can do that. Technically, I can add some alt text that describes the formulas as e.g. "Uppercase T sub lowercase S lowercase T [...] lowercase H end sub minus uppercase T sub 0 end sub equals Δ H [...]", but that would be too cryptic for most people, let alone ones who do need screen-reading assistance. Any more reliable method (they do exist) would most probably be too much for a Stack Exchange post.

      – EKons
      3 hours ago






    • 1





      Experimental data point - my in-laws house burned down, and their aluminum window frames were little pools of resolidified metal on the ground. Aluminum melts at >650C (yes, I know it is actually an alloy, but not intentionally a low-melting point eutectic alloy).

      – Jon Custer
      3 hours ago














    67












    67








    67







    Without acknowledging any of the conditions actually present in the church, wood fires can get much hotter than 600°C.




    The maximum temperatures measured within the pile were of the order of 800, 1000, and 1200 °C for piles composed of 1.27, 2.54, and 9.15 cm sticks respectively, although the maximum temperatures for a given size stick appeared, from all data obtained, to be somewhat dependent upon the structure of the pile. The prescribed temperature-time curve of a standard fire exposure test 1 is also shown in figure 4 from which a general agreement may be noted.
    D Gross: "Experiments on the Burning of Cross Piles of Wood", Journal of Research of the National Bureau of Standards- C. Engineering and Instrumentation Vol. 66C, No.2, April-June 1962. (PDF)




    A nice pile of wood with good ventilation can get apparently really hot:




    Fire plume temperature data suggest a maximum turbulent flame temperature in fully developed compartment fires of about 1500 C for stoichiometric and adiabatic conditions. Experimental results for crib and pool fires are presented to support the trends indicated by the approximate analyses.



    In general, from equations 12 and 13 for stoichiometric conditions, the temperature is given as



    [MATH FORMULA]
    enter image description here



    where Tf,ad is the stoichiometric adiabatic flame temperature. Recorded gas temperatures near the ceiling are reported as high as 1350 C [21], and mean temperatures over the peak burning period are 1000 to 1200 C for polyethylene fires [21] and approximately 900 to 1200 C for wood cribs [20]. For turbulent fire plumes, having a radiative loss fraction Xr, a similar formula applies to the combustion region. This turbulent flame (centerline) temperature is given as [18]



    [MATH FORMULA]
    enter image description here



    From the best available data [22–24], the turbulent mixing parameter, kT, is found to be approximately 0.5 for cp 1 kJ/kg K. As the fire diameter increases, the radiative fraction falls due to soot blockage [25]. Fig. 4 shows flame temperature data for turbulent plumes as a function of Xr. The extrapolated adiabatic temperature is approximately 1500 C. For a realistic adiabatic flame temperature of 2000 C, the actual turbulent mixing factor is approximately 0.75 or a turbulent dilution factor of 1.5. For a large fire in a compartment with large vents, the core maximum flame temperature should approach the turbulent adiabatic flame temperature.
    James G. Quintiere: "Fire Behavior in Building Compartments", Proceedings of the Combustion Institute, Volume 29, 2002/pp. 181–193. DOI




    But to be very sticklish, the claim is actually somewhat correct. Why?




    enter image description hereenter image description here
    M. J. Spearpoint And J. G. Quintiere: "Predicting the Burning of Wood Using an Integral Model", Combustion And Flame, 123:308–324 (2000). DOI




    Or to put it simply:




    A bonfire can reach temperatures as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit), which is hot enough to melt some metals.



    Most types of wood will start combusting at about 300 degrees Celsius. The gases burn and increase the temperature of the wood to about 600 degrees Celsius (1,112 degrees Fahrenheit). When the wood has released all its gases, it leaves charcoal and ashes. Charcoal burns at temperatures exceeding 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit).
    Gabriella Munoz: "How Hot Is a Bonfire?", Sciencing, April 26, 2018.




    Wikpedia says




    This is a rough guide to flame temperatures for various common substances (in 20 °C air at 1 atm. pressure):



    Wood                    1,027 °C (1880.6 °F)
    Methanol 1,200 °C (2192 °F)
    Charcoal (forced draft) 1,390 °C (2534 °F)



    and gives for adiabatic flame temperature maximum even:




    Wood  Air 1980°C  3596°F





    The French authorities seem to have suggested that inside the church 800°C might have been reached:




    Contrairement aux pompiers américains, les sapeurs-pompiers français s’attaquent aux incendies par l’intérieur et non de l’extérieur. Cette tactique est plus dangereuse pour les hommes mais plus efficace pour sauver le patrimoine, observe l’expert Serge Delhaye. Si l’on se concentre sur l’extérieur, on prend le risque de repousser les flammes et les gaz chauds, qui peuvent atteindre 800 degrés, vers l’intérieur et accroître les dégâts. »
    "Six questions sur l’incendie de Notre-Dame de Paris", Le Parisien, Jean-Michel Décugis, Vincent Gautronneau et Jérémie Pham-Lê| 15 avril 2019, 23h40




    Most sources seem to quote a temperature of 1000°C for this incidence, but other sources even go up to 1400°C:




    Fires peak at 1,400°C, explains professor Guillermo Rein, the head of Imperial College London's fire-studying Hazelab.
    Nicole Kobie: "The hot, dangerous physics of fighting the Notre Dame fire", Wire, Tuesday 16 April 2019




    Interestingly, the place where the cross is located is far away from where most of the flames ravaged, beneath a stone vault that remained largely intact. But nevertheless the wood that did burn on and in the roof was well seasoned, old, and dry.

    But even fresh wood that would otherwise make for quite a suboptimal fuel burns often hotter than 600°C:




    Q. At what temperatures do forest fires burn?

    An average surface fire on the forest floor might have flames reaching 1 meter in height and can reach temperatures of 800°C (1,472° F) or more. Under extreme conditions a fire can give off 10,000 kilowatts or more per meter of fire front. This would mean flame heights of 50 meters or more and flame temperatures exceeding 1200°C (2,192° F).
    (Natural History Museum of Utah: "Wildfires: Interesting Facts and F.A.Q." .PDF)







    share|improve this answer















    Without acknowledging any of the conditions actually present in the church, wood fires can get much hotter than 600°C.




    The maximum temperatures measured within the pile were of the order of 800, 1000, and 1200 °C for piles composed of 1.27, 2.54, and 9.15 cm sticks respectively, although the maximum temperatures for a given size stick appeared, from all data obtained, to be somewhat dependent upon the structure of the pile. The prescribed temperature-time curve of a standard fire exposure test 1 is also shown in figure 4 from which a general agreement may be noted.
    D Gross: "Experiments on the Burning of Cross Piles of Wood", Journal of Research of the National Bureau of Standards- C. Engineering and Instrumentation Vol. 66C, No.2, April-June 1962. (PDF)




    A nice pile of wood with good ventilation can get apparently really hot:




    Fire plume temperature data suggest a maximum turbulent flame temperature in fully developed compartment fires of about 1500 C for stoichiometric and adiabatic conditions. Experimental results for crib and pool fires are presented to support the trends indicated by the approximate analyses.



    In general, from equations 12 and 13 for stoichiometric conditions, the temperature is given as



    [MATH FORMULA]
    enter image description here



    where Tf,ad is the stoichiometric adiabatic flame temperature. Recorded gas temperatures near the ceiling are reported as high as 1350 C [21], and mean temperatures over the peak burning period are 1000 to 1200 C for polyethylene fires [21] and approximately 900 to 1200 C for wood cribs [20]. For turbulent fire plumes, having a radiative loss fraction Xr, a similar formula applies to the combustion region. This turbulent flame (centerline) temperature is given as [18]



    [MATH FORMULA]
    enter image description here



    From the best available data [22–24], the turbulent mixing parameter, kT, is found to be approximately 0.5 for cp 1 kJ/kg K. As the fire diameter increases, the radiative fraction falls due to soot blockage [25]. Fig. 4 shows flame temperature data for turbulent plumes as a function of Xr. The extrapolated adiabatic temperature is approximately 1500 C. For a realistic adiabatic flame temperature of 2000 C, the actual turbulent mixing factor is approximately 0.75 or a turbulent dilution factor of 1.5. For a large fire in a compartment with large vents, the core maximum flame temperature should approach the turbulent adiabatic flame temperature.
    James G. Quintiere: "Fire Behavior in Building Compartments", Proceedings of the Combustion Institute, Volume 29, 2002/pp. 181–193. DOI




    But to be very sticklish, the claim is actually somewhat correct. Why?




    enter image description hereenter image description here
    M. J. Spearpoint And J. G. Quintiere: "Predicting the Burning of Wood Using an Integral Model", Combustion And Flame, 123:308–324 (2000). DOI




    Or to put it simply:




    A bonfire can reach temperatures as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit), which is hot enough to melt some metals.



    Most types of wood will start combusting at about 300 degrees Celsius. The gases burn and increase the temperature of the wood to about 600 degrees Celsius (1,112 degrees Fahrenheit). When the wood has released all its gases, it leaves charcoal and ashes. Charcoal burns at temperatures exceeding 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit).
    Gabriella Munoz: "How Hot Is a Bonfire?", Sciencing, April 26, 2018.




    Wikpedia says




    This is a rough guide to flame temperatures for various common substances (in 20 °C air at 1 atm. pressure):



    Wood                    1,027 °C (1880.6 °F)
    Methanol 1,200 °C (2192 °F)
    Charcoal (forced draft) 1,390 °C (2534 °F)



    and gives for adiabatic flame temperature maximum even:




    Wood  Air 1980°C  3596°F





    The French authorities seem to have suggested that inside the church 800°C might have been reached:




    Contrairement aux pompiers américains, les sapeurs-pompiers français s’attaquent aux incendies par l’intérieur et non de l’extérieur. Cette tactique est plus dangereuse pour les hommes mais plus efficace pour sauver le patrimoine, observe l’expert Serge Delhaye. Si l’on se concentre sur l’extérieur, on prend le risque de repousser les flammes et les gaz chauds, qui peuvent atteindre 800 degrés, vers l’intérieur et accroître les dégâts. »
    "Six questions sur l’incendie de Notre-Dame de Paris", Le Parisien, Jean-Michel Décugis, Vincent Gautronneau et Jérémie Pham-Lê| 15 avril 2019, 23h40




    Most sources seem to quote a temperature of 1000°C for this incidence, but other sources even go up to 1400°C:




    Fires peak at 1,400°C, explains professor Guillermo Rein, the head of Imperial College London's fire-studying Hazelab.
    Nicole Kobie: "The hot, dangerous physics of fighting the Notre Dame fire", Wire, Tuesday 16 April 2019




    Interestingly, the place where the cross is located is far away from where most of the flames ravaged, beneath a stone vault that remained largely intact. But nevertheless the wood that did burn on and in the roof was well seasoned, old, and dry.

    But even fresh wood that would otherwise make for quite a suboptimal fuel burns often hotter than 600°C:




    Q. At what temperatures do forest fires burn?

    An average surface fire on the forest floor might have flames reaching 1 meter in height and can reach temperatures of 800°C (1,472° F) or more. Under extreme conditions a fire can give off 10,000 kilowatts or more per meter of fire front. This would mean flame heights of 50 meters or more and flame temperatures exceeding 1200°C (2,192° F).
    (Natural History Museum of Utah: "Wildfires: Interesting Facts and F.A.Q." .PDF)








    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 3 hours ago

























    answered yesterday









    LangLangCLangLangC

    17.5k47286




    17.5k47286













    • I was about to add the translation of the French bit, but I wonder if that's truly a relevant thing to do, considering it gets readable enough when you copy paste it into DeepL.

      – Clockwork
      17 hours ago











    • Then again, what if a blind person stumbles on this answer... ?

      – Clockwork
      15 hours ago






    • 1





      However, OP didn't ask about wood in general, but explcitly "wooden buildings, such as Notre Dame", where the wood is far from a perfect pile

      – Hobbamok
      12 hours ago






    • 1





      @LangLangC I don't think I can do that. Technically, I can add some alt text that describes the formulas as e.g. "Uppercase T sub lowercase S lowercase T [...] lowercase H end sub minus uppercase T sub 0 end sub equals Δ H [...]", but that would be too cryptic for most people, let alone ones who do need screen-reading assistance. Any more reliable method (they do exist) would most probably be too much for a Stack Exchange post.

      – EKons
      3 hours ago






    • 1





      Experimental data point - my in-laws house burned down, and their aluminum window frames were little pools of resolidified metal on the ground. Aluminum melts at >650C (yes, I know it is actually an alloy, but not intentionally a low-melting point eutectic alloy).

      – Jon Custer
      3 hours ago



















    • I was about to add the translation of the French bit, but I wonder if that's truly a relevant thing to do, considering it gets readable enough when you copy paste it into DeepL.

      – Clockwork
      17 hours ago











    • Then again, what if a blind person stumbles on this answer... ?

      – Clockwork
      15 hours ago






    • 1





      However, OP didn't ask about wood in general, but explcitly "wooden buildings, such as Notre Dame", where the wood is far from a perfect pile

      – Hobbamok
      12 hours ago






    • 1





      @LangLangC I don't think I can do that. Technically, I can add some alt text that describes the formulas as e.g. "Uppercase T sub lowercase S lowercase T [...] lowercase H end sub minus uppercase T sub 0 end sub equals Δ H [...]", but that would be too cryptic for most people, let alone ones who do need screen-reading assistance. Any more reliable method (they do exist) would most probably be too much for a Stack Exchange post.

      – EKons
      3 hours ago






    • 1





      Experimental data point - my in-laws house burned down, and their aluminum window frames were little pools of resolidified metal on the ground. Aluminum melts at >650C (yes, I know it is actually an alloy, but not intentionally a low-melting point eutectic alloy).

      – Jon Custer
      3 hours ago

















    I was about to add the translation of the French bit, but I wonder if that's truly a relevant thing to do, considering it gets readable enough when you copy paste it into DeepL.

    – Clockwork
    17 hours ago





    I was about to add the translation of the French bit, but I wonder if that's truly a relevant thing to do, considering it gets readable enough when you copy paste it into DeepL.

    – Clockwork
    17 hours ago













    Then again, what if a blind person stumbles on this answer... ?

    – Clockwork
    15 hours ago





    Then again, what if a blind person stumbles on this answer... ?

    – Clockwork
    15 hours ago




    1




    1





    However, OP didn't ask about wood in general, but explcitly "wooden buildings, such as Notre Dame", where the wood is far from a perfect pile

    – Hobbamok
    12 hours ago





    However, OP didn't ask about wood in general, but explcitly "wooden buildings, such as Notre Dame", where the wood is far from a perfect pile

    – Hobbamok
    12 hours ago




    1




    1





    @LangLangC I don't think I can do that. Technically, I can add some alt text that describes the formulas as e.g. "Uppercase T sub lowercase S lowercase T [...] lowercase H end sub minus uppercase T sub 0 end sub equals Δ H [...]", but that would be too cryptic for most people, let alone ones who do need screen-reading assistance. Any more reliable method (they do exist) would most probably be too much for a Stack Exchange post.

    – EKons
    3 hours ago





    @LangLangC I don't think I can do that. Technically, I can add some alt text that describes the formulas as e.g. "Uppercase T sub lowercase S lowercase T [...] lowercase H end sub minus uppercase T sub 0 end sub equals Δ H [...]", but that would be too cryptic for most people, let alone ones who do need screen-reading assistance. Any more reliable method (they do exist) would most probably be too much for a Stack Exchange post.

    – EKons
    3 hours ago




    1




    1





    Experimental data point - my in-laws house burned down, and their aluminum window frames were little pools of resolidified metal on the ground. Aluminum melts at >650C (yes, I know it is actually an alloy, but not intentionally a low-melting point eutectic alloy).

    – Jon Custer
    3 hours ago





    Experimental data point - my in-laws house burned down, and their aluminum window frames were little pools of resolidified metal on the ground. Aluminum melts at >650C (yes, I know it is actually an alloy, but not intentionally a low-melting point eutectic alloy).

    – Jon Custer
    3 hours ago











    51














    Probably yes: According to at least one expert, the temperature in the Notre Dame fire must have been extremely high, and probably exceeded 600°C.



    Yesterday the Süddeutsche Zeitung, one of Germany's most reputable newspapers, published an interview with the director of the German Technisches Hilfswerk (the Federal Agency for Technical Relief) and former director of the Fire Departments of Berlin, Albrecht Broemme. The interview covers several aspects of the Notre Dame fire (for example, Broemme explains why using water bombers was out of the question). He also discusses why this was an extraordinarily difficult task for the fire fighters. One reason he mentions is the extreme heat of the flames:




    Der Farbe der Flammen nach zu urteilen müssen die Temperaturen bei 800, 900 Grad gelegen haben.




    (My translation: "Judging from the color of the flames, temperatures must have been 800 or 900°C.")



    Of course, this interview is not a peer-reviewed publication on the temperatures that wood fires can reach. However, based on this expert statement, there is little reason to doubt that a fire such as the Notre Dame fire can be far hotter than the 600°C the Twitter comment mentions. Note of course that his statement does not answer whether the fire was really hot enough to melt the golden altar cross, or whether the choir was actually exposed to this extreme temperature.






    share|improve this answer






























      51














      Probably yes: According to at least one expert, the temperature in the Notre Dame fire must have been extremely high, and probably exceeded 600°C.



      Yesterday the Süddeutsche Zeitung, one of Germany's most reputable newspapers, published an interview with the director of the German Technisches Hilfswerk (the Federal Agency for Technical Relief) and former director of the Fire Departments of Berlin, Albrecht Broemme. The interview covers several aspects of the Notre Dame fire (for example, Broemme explains why using water bombers was out of the question). He also discusses why this was an extraordinarily difficult task for the fire fighters. One reason he mentions is the extreme heat of the flames:




      Der Farbe der Flammen nach zu urteilen müssen die Temperaturen bei 800, 900 Grad gelegen haben.




      (My translation: "Judging from the color of the flames, temperatures must have been 800 or 900°C.")



      Of course, this interview is not a peer-reviewed publication on the temperatures that wood fires can reach. However, based on this expert statement, there is little reason to doubt that a fire such as the Notre Dame fire can be far hotter than the 600°C the Twitter comment mentions. Note of course that his statement does not answer whether the fire was really hot enough to melt the golden altar cross, or whether the choir was actually exposed to this extreme temperature.






      share|improve this answer




























        51












        51








        51







        Probably yes: According to at least one expert, the temperature in the Notre Dame fire must have been extremely high, and probably exceeded 600°C.



        Yesterday the Süddeutsche Zeitung, one of Germany's most reputable newspapers, published an interview with the director of the German Technisches Hilfswerk (the Federal Agency for Technical Relief) and former director of the Fire Departments of Berlin, Albrecht Broemme. The interview covers several aspects of the Notre Dame fire (for example, Broemme explains why using water bombers was out of the question). He also discusses why this was an extraordinarily difficult task for the fire fighters. One reason he mentions is the extreme heat of the flames:




        Der Farbe der Flammen nach zu urteilen müssen die Temperaturen bei 800, 900 Grad gelegen haben.




        (My translation: "Judging from the color of the flames, temperatures must have been 800 or 900°C.")



        Of course, this interview is not a peer-reviewed publication on the temperatures that wood fires can reach. However, based on this expert statement, there is little reason to doubt that a fire such as the Notre Dame fire can be far hotter than the 600°C the Twitter comment mentions. Note of course that his statement does not answer whether the fire was really hot enough to melt the golden altar cross, or whether the choir was actually exposed to this extreme temperature.






        share|improve this answer















        Probably yes: According to at least one expert, the temperature in the Notre Dame fire must have been extremely high, and probably exceeded 600°C.



        Yesterday the Süddeutsche Zeitung, one of Germany's most reputable newspapers, published an interview with the director of the German Technisches Hilfswerk (the Federal Agency for Technical Relief) and former director of the Fire Departments of Berlin, Albrecht Broemme. The interview covers several aspects of the Notre Dame fire (for example, Broemme explains why using water bombers was out of the question). He also discusses why this was an extraordinarily difficult task for the fire fighters. One reason he mentions is the extreme heat of the flames:




        Der Farbe der Flammen nach zu urteilen müssen die Temperaturen bei 800, 900 Grad gelegen haben.




        (My translation: "Judging from the color of the flames, temperatures must have been 800 or 900°C.")



        Of course, this interview is not a peer-reviewed publication on the temperatures that wood fires can reach. However, based on this expert statement, there is little reason to doubt that a fire such as the Notre Dame fire can be far hotter than the 600°C the Twitter comment mentions. Note of course that his statement does not answer whether the fire was really hot enough to melt the golden altar cross, or whether the choir was actually exposed to this extreme temperature.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited yesterday









        Oddthinking

        102k31428532




        102k31428532










        answered yesterday









        SchmuddiSchmuddi

        3,13921624




        3,13921624























            21














            Wood is a perfectly acceptable and common material used in metal forging even more so when it becomes partially combusted (charcoal). What really determines the heat though, is the amount of oxygen it can get. If there were medium-high winds blowing on the building it could have melted even steel beams.



            Reference: https://youtu.be/x_wYozMBWNk



            In that video you see a forge burning raw wood getting hot enough to make steel white which typically happens around 1200C (reference2: http://www.smex.net.au/reference/SteelColours02.php)






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            • 15





              Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?

              – Jesse_b
              yesterday






            • 3





              skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi

              – Maxim
              yesterday






            • 3





              References added

              – Jesse_b
              yesterday






            • 7





              Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.

              – reirab
              yesterday






            • 7





              @Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.

              – EJoshuaS
              yesterday


















            21














            Wood is a perfectly acceptable and common material used in metal forging even more so when it becomes partially combusted (charcoal). What really determines the heat though, is the amount of oxygen it can get. If there were medium-high winds blowing on the building it could have melted even steel beams.



            Reference: https://youtu.be/x_wYozMBWNk



            In that video you see a forge burning raw wood getting hot enough to make steel white which typically happens around 1200C (reference2: http://www.smex.net.au/reference/SteelColours02.php)






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.
















            • 15





              Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?

              – Jesse_b
              yesterday






            • 3





              skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi

              – Maxim
              yesterday






            • 3





              References added

              – Jesse_b
              yesterday






            • 7





              Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.

              – reirab
              yesterday






            • 7





              @Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.

              – EJoshuaS
              yesterday
















            21












            21








            21







            Wood is a perfectly acceptable and common material used in metal forging even more so when it becomes partially combusted (charcoal). What really determines the heat though, is the amount of oxygen it can get. If there were medium-high winds blowing on the building it could have melted even steel beams.



            Reference: https://youtu.be/x_wYozMBWNk



            In that video you see a forge burning raw wood getting hot enough to make steel white which typically happens around 1200C (reference2: http://www.smex.net.au/reference/SteelColours02.php)






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.










            Wood is a perfectly acceptable and common material used in metal forging even more so when it becomes partially combusted (charcoal). What really determines the heat though, is the amount of oxygen it can get. If there were medium-high winds blowing on the building it could have melted even steel beams.



            Reference: https://youtu.be/x_wYozMBWNk



            In that video you see a forge burning raw wood getting hot enough to make steel white which typically happens around 1200C (reference2: http://www.smex.net.au/reference/SteelColours02.php)







            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited yesterday





















            New contributor




            Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            answered yesterday









            Jesse_bJesse_b

            3116




            3116




            New contributor




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            New contributor





            Jesse_b is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            • 15





              Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?

              – Jesse_b
              yesterday






            • 3





              skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi

              – Maxim
              yesterday






            • 3





              References added

              – Jesse_b
              yesterday






            • 7





              Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.

              – reirab
              yesterday






            • 7





              @Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.

              – EJoshuaS
              yesterday
















            • 15





              Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?

              – Jesse_b
              yesterday






            • 3





              skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi

              – Maxim
              yesterday






            • 3





              References added

              – Jesse_b
              yesterday






            • 7





              Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.

              – reirab
              yesterday






            • 7





              @Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.

              – EJoshuaS
              yesterday










            15




            15





            Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?

            – Jesse_b
            yesterday





            Q: "do wooden buildings, such as the Notre Dame Cathedral, burn at temperatures above 600°C?" My Answer: "It's certainly possible". How doesn't it target the question?

            – Jesse_b
            yesterday




            3




            3





            skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi

            – Maxim
            yesterday





            skeptics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1505/… Maybe this is more helpful. An answer always needs a reference. You can have a look at the answer of LangLangC or target the specific occasion, like answer from Schmuddi

            – Maxim
            yesterday




            3




            3





            References added

            – Jesse_b
            yesterday





            References added

            – Jesse_b
            yesterday




            7




            7





            Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.

            – reirab
            yesterday





            Exactly. Virtually every metal forge for thousands of years was wood-fueled. Given fuels have a minimum temperature at which they will combust at a given pressure, but that doesn't mean it's the only temperature at which they will combust.

            – reirab
            yesterday




            7




            7





            @Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.

            – EJoshuaS
            yesterday







            @Maxim How is this not an answer to the question? If anything, I think that it's actually the simplest explanation given so far of why the claim in question is incorrect. In particular, I think that the point about wood fires being used to melt metal all the time is actually really compelling.

            – EJoshuaS
            yesterday













            9














            The entire type of assertion "if X is burning, and X is said to burn at Y temperature, then the fire cannot melt Z which melts at Z temperature" is fundamentally flawed at at least two levels.




            1. The burning point of a material is the usual minimum point where it starts to burn, but not the maximum temperature of a fire involving that material.


            2. The temperature that would apply to a melting point is the temperature of the air in the environment, and as Jesse_b very rightly answered, that temperature is more about air flow, and the overall situation of the space. The amount of burning fuel, amount of air in fire reactions, and the heat and air flow of the entire environment all contribute to how hot that environment gets.



            References:




            • I've completed courses in chemistry, and I have a good memory. Fire is an exothermic reaction, meaning it creates heat. The amount of heat released in an entire large fire is a factor of the amount of fuel consumed. The type of fuel (e.g. wood) merely determines the rate and surface temperature. The temperature of something that might be melted is based not on the temperature of some other nearby object, but on the temperature of the object that might melt, which is determined by how much heat it receives from all nearby sources, both through radiation and through contact with heated air and other heated objects.



            • "Primary combustion begins at about 540° F, continues toward 900° F
              and results in the release of a large amount of energy. [...] Primary
              combustion also releases large amounts of unburned combustible gases,
              including methane and methanol as well as more acid, water vapor and
              carbon dioxides. These gases, called secondary gases, contain up to 60
              percent of the potential heat in the wood. [...] The conditions needed
              to burn secondary gases are sufficient oxygen and temperatures of at
              least 1100° F. The air supply is critical. Too little air will not
              support combustion and too much will cool the temperature to a point
              where combustion cannot occur."



              (from "Stages of Wood Burning Combustion" by By Dwayne R Bennett - http://www.flameandcomfort.com/archives/blog/311)




            • "A bonfire should be treated with respect as it can reach temperatures
              as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit)."



              https://sciencing.com/hot-bonfire-8770.html








            share|improve this answer


























            • For whatever reason, many people seem to view a combustion point as similar to a boiling point, where an increase in temperature will increase the rate at which an endothermic process occurs, pushing the temperature downward. While mixtures (e.g. chafing fuels) can be formulated to behave that way, in most cases where fires get out of control, they do so because increasing temperatures increase the rate of exothermic reactions, resulting in thermal runaway.

              – supercat
              4 hours ago
















            9














            The entire type of assertion "if X is burning, and X is said to burn at Y temperature, then the fire cannot melt Z which melts at Z temperature" is fundamentally flawed at at least two levels.




            1. The burning point of a material is the usual minimum point where it starts to burn, but not the maximum temperature of a fire involving that material.


            2. The temperature that would apply to a melting point is the temperature of the air in the environment, and as Jesse_b very rightly answered, that temperature is more about air flow, and the overall situation of the space. The amount of burning fuel, amount of air in fire reactions, and the heat and air flow of the entire environment all contribute to how hot that environment gets.



            References:




            • I've completed courses in chemistry, and I have a good memory. Fire is an exothermic reaction, meaning it creates heat. The amount of heat released in an entire large fire is a factor of the amount of fuel consumed. The type of fuel (e.g. wood) merely determines the rate and surface temperature. The temperature of something that might be melted is based not on the temperature of some other nearby object, but on the temperature of the object that might melt, which is determined by how much heat it receives from all nearby sources, both through radiation and through contact with heated air and other heated objects.



            • "Primary combustion begins at about 540° F, continues toward 900° F
              and results in the release of a large amount of energy. [...] Primary
              combustion also releases large amounts of unburned combustible gases,
              including methane and methanol as well as more acid, water vapor and
              carbon dioxides. These gases, called secondary gases, contain up to 60
              percent of the potential heat in the wood. [...] The conditions needed
              to burn secondary gases are sufficient oxygen and temperatures of at
              least 1100° F. The air supply is critical. Too little air will not
              support combustion and too much will cool the temperature to a point
              where combustion cannot occur."



              (from "Stages of Wood Burning Combustion" by By Dwayne R Bennett - http://www.flameandcomfort.com/archives/blog/311)




            • "A bonfire should be treated with respect as it can reach temperatures
              as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit)."



              https://sciencing.com/hot-bonfire-8770.html








            share|improve this answer


























            • For whatever reason, many people seem to view a combustion point as similar to a boiling point, where an increase in temperature will increase the rate at which an endothermic process occurs, pushing the temperature downward. While mixtures (e.g. chafing fuels) can be formulated to behave that way, in most cases where fires get out of control, they do so because increasing temperatures increase the rate of exothermic reactions, resulting in thermal runaway.

              – supercat
              4 hours ago














            9












            9








            9







            The entire type of assertion "if X is burning, and X is said to burn at Y temperature, then the fire cannot melt Z which melts at Z temperature" is fundamentally flawed at at least two levels.




            1. The burning point of a material is the usual minimum point where it starts to burn, but not the maximum temperature of a fire involving that material.


            2. The temperature that would apply to a melting point is the temperature of the air in the environment, and as Jesse_b very rightly answered, that temperature is more about air flow, and the overall situation of the space. The amount of burning fuel, amount of air in fire reactions, and the heat and air flow of the entire environment all contribute to how hot that environment gets.



            References:




            • I've completed courses in chemistry, and I have a good memory. Fire is an exothermic reaction, meaning it creates heat. The amount of heat released in an entire large fire is a factor of the amount of fuel consumed. The type of fuel (e.g. wood) merely determines the rate and surface temperature. The temperature of something that might be melted is based not on the temperature of some other nearby object, but on the temperature of the object that might melt, which is determined by how much heat it receives from all nearby sources, both through radiation and through contact with heated air and other heated objects.



            • "Primary combustion begins at about 540° F, continues toward 900° F
              and results in the release of a large amount of energy. [...] Primary
              combustion also releases large amounts of unburned combustible gases,
              including methane and methanol as well as more acid, water vapor and
              carbon dioxides. These gases, called secondary gases, contain up to 60
              percent of the potential heat in the wood. [...] The conditions needed
              to burn secondary gases are sufficient oxygen and temperatures of at
              least 1100° F. The air supply is critical. Too little air will not
              support combustion and too much will cool the temperature to a point
              where combustion cannot occur."



              (from "Stages of Wood Burning Combustion" by By Dwayne R Bennett - http://www.flameandcomfort.com/archives/blog/311)




            • "A bonfire should be treated with respect as it can reach temperatures
              as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit)."



              https://sciencing.com/hot-bonfire-8770.html








            share|improve this answer















            The entire type of assertion "if X is burning, and X is said to burn at Y temperature, then the fire cannot melt Z which melts at Z temperature" is fundamentally flawed at at least two levels.




            1. The burning point of a material is the usual minimum point where it starts to burn, but not the maximum temperature of a fire involving that material.


            2. The temperature that would apply to a melting point is the temperature of the air in the environment, and as Jesse_b very rightly answered, that temperature is more about air flow, and the overall situation of the space. The amount of burning fuel, amount of air in fire reactions, and the heat and air flow of the entire environment all contribute to how hot that environment gets.



            References:




            • I've completed courses in chemistry, and I have a good memory. Fire is an exothermic reaction, meaning it creates heat. The amount of heat released in an entire large fire is a factor of the amount of fuel consumed. The type of fuel (e.g. wood) merely determines the rate and surface temperature. The temperature of something that might be melted is based not on the temperature of some other nearby object, but on the temperature of the object that might melt, which is determined by how much heat it receives from all nearby sources, both through radiation and through contact with heated air and other heated objects.



            • "Primary combustion begins at about 540° F, continues toward 900° F
              and results in the release of a large amount of energy. [...] Primary
              combustion also releases large amounts of unburned combustible gases,
              including methane and methanol as well as more acid, water vapor and
              carbon dioxides. These gases, called secondary gases, contain up to 60
              percent of the potential heat in the wood. [...] The conditions needed
              to burn secondary gases are sufficient oxygen and temperatures of at
              least 1100° F. The air supply is critical. Too little air will not
              support combustion and too much will cool the temperature to a point
              where combustion cannot occur."



              (from "Stages of Wood Burning Combustion" by By Dwayne R Bennett - http://www.flameandcomfort.com/archives/blog/311)




            • "A bonfire should be treated with respect as it can reach temperatures
              as hot as 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit)."



              https://sciencing.com/hot-bonfire-8770.html









            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 18 hours ago

























            answered yesterday









            DronzDronz

            2008




            2008













            • For whatever reason, many people seem to view a combustion point as similar to a boiling point, where an increase in temperature will increase the rate at which an endothermic process occurs, pushing the temperature downward. While mixtures (e.g. chafing fuels) can be formulated to behave that way, in most cases where fires get out of control, they do so because increasing temperatures increase the rate of exothermic reactions, resulting in thermal runaway.

              – supercat
              4 hours ago



















            • For whatever reason, many people seem to view a combustion point as similar to a boiling point, where an increase in temperature will increase the rate at which an endothermic process occurs, pushing the temperature downward. While mixtures (e.g. chafing fuels) can be formulated to behave that way, in most cases where fires get out of control, they do so because increasing temperatures increase the rate of exothermic reactions, resulting in thermal runaway.

              – supercat
              4 hours ago

















            For whatever reason, many people seem to view a combustion point as similar to a boiling point, where an increase in temperature will increase the rate at which an endothermic process occurs, pushing the temperature downward. While mixtures (e.g. chafing fuels) can be formulated to behave that way, in most cases where fires get out of control, they do so because increasing temperatures increase the rate of exothermic reactions, resulting in thermal runaway.

            – supercat
            4 hours ago





            For whatever reason, many people seem to view a combustion point as similar to a boiling point, where an increase in temperature will increase the rate at which an endothermic process occurs, pushing the temperature downward. While mixtures (e.g. chafing fuels) can be formulated to behave that way, in most cases where fires get out of control, they do so because increasing temperatures increase the rate of exothermic reactions, resulting in thermal runaway.

            – supercat
            4 hours ago











            3














            Additional thing to consider: Gold is highly reflective to radiated heat (infrared radiation) - it is used as a coating for fire-resistant clothing and spacecraft for that reason. What reflects does not get heated up by being irradiated, what isn't heated does not melt. Obviously heating by convection and conduction is not affected here.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            rackandboneman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










            • 1





              The really important thing to consider is the fact that the fire was largely in the attic space, not the space pictured. You can see, for example, wax candles surviving behind the altar.

              – ceejayoz
              9 hours ago











            • This doesn't answer the question, and should be a comment???

              – Barry Harrison
              1 hour ago
















            3














            Additional thing to consider: Gold is highly reflective to radiated heat (infrared radiation) - it is used as a coating for fire-resistant clothing and spacecraft for that reason. What reflects does not get heated up by being irradiated, what isn't heated does not melt. Obviously heating by convection and conduction is not affected here.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            rackandboneman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.










            Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.










            • 1





              The really important thing to consider is the fact that the fire was largely in the attic space, not the space pictured. You can see, for example, wax candles surviving behind the altar.

              – ceejayoz
              9 hours ago











            • This doesn't answer the question, and should be a comment???

              – Barry Harrison
              1 hour ago














            3












            3








            3







            Additional thing to consider: Gold is highly reflective to radiated heat (infrared radiation) - it is used as a coating for fire-resistant clothing and spacecraft for that reason. What reflects does not get heated up by being irradiated, what isn't heated does not melt. Obviously heating by convection and conduction is not affected here.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            rackandboneman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.










            Additional thing to consider: Gold is highly reflective to radiated heat (infrared radiation) - it is used as a coating for fire-resistant clothing and spacecraft for that reason. What reflects does not get heated up by being irradiated, what isn't heated does not melt. Obviously heating by convection and conduction is not affected here.







            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            rackandboneman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer






            New contributor




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            answered 15 hours ago









            rackandbonemanrackandboneman

            1312




            1312




            New contributor




            rackandboneman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            New contributor





            rackandboneman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            rackandboneman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.




            Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.









            • 1





              The really important thing to consider is the fact that the fire was largely in the attic space, not the space pictured. You can see, for example, wax candles surviving behind the altar.

              – ceejayoz
              9 hours ago











            • This doesn't answer the question, and should be a comment???

              – Barry Harrison
              1 hour ago














            • 1





              The really important thing to consider is the fact that the fire was largely in the attic space, not the space pictured. You can see, for example, wax candles surviving behind the altar.

              – ceejayoz
              9 hours ago











            • This doesn't answer the question, and should be a comment???

              – Barry Harrison
              1 hour ago








            1




            1





            The really important thing to consider is the fact that the fire was largely in the attic space, not the space pictured. You can see, for example, wax candles surviving behind the altar.

            – ceejayoz
            9 hours ago





            The really important thing to consider is the fact that the fire was largely in the attic space, not the space pictured. You can see, for example, wax candles surviving behind the altar.

            – ceejayoz
            9 hours ago













            This doesn't answer the question, and should be a comment???

            – Barry Harrison
            1 hour ago





            This doesn't answer the question, and should be a comment???

            – Barry Harrison
            1 hour ago











            1














            The size of the fire is important in this way: The greater the ratio of volume to surface area, the more heat will build up in the center before it can radiate away. This enables a larger fire to burn at a hotter temperature.



            As a more extreme example, take the sun. The nuclear fusion going in the sun's core is producing less energy per unit volume than a lizard's metabolism. However, the sun's immense size means it takes literally thousands of years for the heat to work its way to the surface, so it builds up.






            share|improve this answer








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            • This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review

              – Barry Harrison
              1 hour ago
















            1














            The size of the fire is important in this way: The greater the ratio of volume to surface area, the more heat will build up in the center before it can radiate away. This enables a larger fire to burn at a hotter temperature.



            As a more extreme example, take the sun. The nuclear fusion going in the sun's core is producing less energy per unit volume than a lizard's metabolism. However, the sun's immense size means it takes literally thousands of years for the heat to work its way to the surface, so it builds up.






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            • This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review

              – Barry Harrison
              1 hour ago














            1












            1








            1







            The size of the fire is important in this way: The greater the ratio of volume to surface area, the more heat will build up in the center before it can radiate away. This enables a larger fire to burn at a hotter temperature.



            As a more extreme example, take the sun. The nuclear fusion going in the sun's core is producing less energy per unit volume than a lizard's metabolism. However, the sun's immense size means it takes literally thousands of years for the heat to work its way to the surface, so it builds up.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            EvilSnack is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.










            The size of the fire is important in this way: The greater the ratio of volume to surface area, the more heat will build up in the center before it can radiate away. This enables a larger fire to burn at a hotter temperature.



            As a more extreme example, take the sun. The nuclear fusion going in the sun's core is producing less energy per unit volume than a lizard's metabolism. However, the sun's immense size means it takes literally thousands of years for the heat to work its way to the surface, so it builds up.







            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            EvilSnack is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer






            New contributor




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            answered 18 hours ago









            EvilSnackEvilSnack

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            1111




            New contributor




            EvilSnack is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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            New contributor





            EvilSnack is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            EvilSnack is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.



            Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.




            Some of the information contained in this post requires additional references. Please edit to add citations to reliable sources that support the assertions made here. Unsourced material may be disputed or deleted.














            • This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review

              – Barry Harrison
              1 hour ago



















            • This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review

              – Barry Harrison
              1 hour ago

















            This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review

            – Barry Harrison
            1 hour ago





            This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post. - From Review

            – Barry Harrison
            1 hour ago





            protected by Mad Scientist 14 hours ago



            Thank you for your interest in this question.
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